General Blackbeard Thread

[Kaminari]

So it would explain how he could eat more than one DF asked 3 different ways? As I said, that's what everybody is speculating. I can come up with tons of retarded theories to explain he can eat more than 1, that doesn't make them right.

No each of those points targets a specific hole.

1 - Why he can have more than 1 fruit.
2 - Why world government didn't know that he could do this, thus allowing him to get WB's fruit.
3 - Why he doesn't take any other fruit, Ace was in a walking distance from him. And why he isn't interested in getting more fruits.

Sure if you can come up with retarded theories that could adress all 6 of those points I will be glad to hear it.

So it would explain why he is weaker than them? I'm pretty sure that's just because he's too overconfident and needs more practice.

I'm kinda getting tired to explain this to every single person but here is the thing.
The whole speech that BB gave to Ace about finding the STRONGEST fruit and showing Darkness was just a misdirection (as I have stated he has been defeated several times now). His WHOLE PLAN was to get the one last fruit and if Ace were to know that BB already has 2 fruits and told this to Garp they would have been able to figure out BB's true motives for bringing in Ace and therefor starting the war.

I believe I've already confronted this twice.

Scratching isn't exactly what BB is known for, sure its possible, but guess what? Its just as possible as him having a Cerberus fruit. I use the scar as the evidence supporting Cerberus theory because it actually gives a perfect explanation for the shape and other things like him being able to hurt Shanks + his physical endurance.

[Zik]

How can you believe Teach has more than one personality when there's absolutely nothing in the manga that points to that?

That's like someone saying I believe Teach has a 3rd nipple. Nothing in the manga has shown that, talked about it, or even hinted at that but the person will continue to believe it because they have some stupid fixation on BB and the number 3 where they'll continue to make up bullshit theories not worth discussing cuz they can't separate pure speculation from valid theories.

His WHOLE PLAN was to get the one last fruit and if Ace were to know that BB already has 2 fruits and told this to Garp they would have been able to figure out BB's true motives for bringing in Ace and therefor starting the war.

When did this become BB's plan? When Ace confronted him? Cuz he originally wanted Luffy to become shichibukai. I can understand saying getting WB's DF was part of the plan but this whole conceal your DF until a later time just makes no sense if he did in fact show Shanks that ability.

Moving on to if he has this DF, just wondering do you think BB actually grabbed the DF out of WB's body and ate it under that black sheet? Also what exactly is the ability of this Cerberus zoan? Just 3 heads? or is it 3 bodies in one? From the way I see it 3 heads would still lead to one stomach making it impossible for BB to eat 2 let alone 3 DFs since you're claiming one DF is allowing you to eat many other. If it's 3 bodies okay but the last person who argued this theory definitely kept switching it up when it was convenient.

[wintergt]

How can you believe Teach has more than one personality when there's absolutely nothing in the manga that points to that?

That's like someone saying I believe Teach has a 3rd nipple. Nothing in the manga has shown that, talked about it, or even hinted at that but the person will continue to believe it because they have some stupid fixation on BB and the number 3 where they'll continue to make up bullshit theories not worth discussing cuz they can't separate pure speculation from valid theories.

Amen.

Go troll some other threads, this one is for intelligent discussion.

[Drake]

I submit to Teach not having multiple personalities.
Its not a fact, and my own idealistic views lead me to believe it.

So from now on, ill stop using the three personalities to support the cerberus theory, until I take the time to look up the chapters that led me to believe it.

Amen.

Go troll some other threads, this one is for intelligent discussion.

just that you dont like the theory or you dont agree with it doesnt mean its not intelligent discussion.

Its far more thought through and far more educated than any other theory ive seen on here.

[Kaminari]

How can you believe Teach has more than one personality when there's absolutely nothing in the manga that points to that?

That's like someone saying I believe Teach has a 3rd nipple. Nothing in the manga has shown that, talked about it, or even hinted at that but the person will continue to believe it because they have some stupid fixation on BB and the number 3 where they'll continue to make up bullshit theories not worth discussing cuz they can't separate pure speculation from valid theories.

Quote from myself : Forget the split personality stuff, its nonsense. He held 2 powers at the same time, its not possible with split personality.

When did this become BB's plan? When Ace confronted him? Cuz he originally wanted Luffy to become shichibukai. I can understand saying getting WB's DF was part of the plan but this whole conceal your DF until a later time just makes no sense if he did in fact show Shanks that ability.

I think it was his plan the whole time to become Shichibukai, get some level 6 guys and kill WB for his fruit. But Ace made it even easier. The fact that he was undercover and trying to be in WB's shadow, leads me to believe that he clawed Shanks out of rage and most likely not fully transformed.

Moving on to if he has this DF, just wondering do you think BB actually grabbed the DF out of WB's body and ate it under that black sheet? Also what exactly is the ability of this Cerberus zoan? Just 3 heads? or is it 3 bodies in one? From the way I see it 3 heads would still lead to one stomach making it impossible for BB to eat 2 let alone 3 DFs since you're claiming one DF is allowing you to eat many other. If it's 3 bodies okay but the last person who argued this theory definitely kept switching it up when it was convenient.

Yes I made a mistake when I said Yami fruit has nothing to do with it. I addressed this in previous post (when I realized that he had to extract it somehow). I guess he did extract it with Yami fruit but I refuse to believe that WG or Sengoku would allow him to live if they knew that he could also KEEP the ability.

In other words what I am suggesting is that description for Yami fruit is something like:
Allows user to nullify DF powers but it has a side effect = if used on a dead person it can extract and absorb the victims fruit thus making Yami user explode.

The fact that one person cannot hold multiple fruits, would make it IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to have multiple fruits which isn't the case anymore. So our guess is that 3 heads allow for 1 fruit per head. If you have a better guess for why he can hold multiple fruits, then your theory might be better. But read my points as to why it cannot be Yami fruit that gives him this ability.

[Zik]

Its far more thought through and far more educated than any other theory ive seen on here.

Quote from myself : Forget the split personality stuff, its nonsense. He held 2 powers at the same time, its not possible with split personality.

This wasn't directed toward you but at least other ppl see why that theory is terribly wrong and shouldn't be taken seriously.

I think it was his plan the whole time to become Shichibukai, get some level 6 guys and kill WB for his fruit.

I agree here.

The fact that he was undercover and trying to be in WB's shadow, leads me to believe that he clawed Shanks out of rage and most likely not fully transformed.

I still feel Shanks would've seen it or at the very least notice this half transformation or jump in speed/strength/athleticism that it'd take for him to get close and scar him. At the very least Shanks should be going around saying Teach is some kind of DF user.

Yes I made a mistake when I said Yami fruit has nothing to do with it. I addressed this in previous post (when I realized that he had to extract it somehow). I guess he did extract it with Yami fruit but I refuse to believe that WG or Sengoku would allow him to live if they knew that he could also KEEP the ability.

Well it's questionable whether the marines/WG even knew what kind of DF BB had. Anyway, I just wanted to know your view in as far as this theory goes.

In other words what I am suggesting is that description for Yami fruit is something like:
Allows user to nullify DF powers but it has a side effect = if used on a dead person it can extract and absorb the victims fruit thus making Yami user explode.

I still disagree with this. Seems a bit too much for BB to get a DF(the only one mind you) that allows you to eat more than one DF, then get the DF that allows him to suck out DFs from dead DF users. At the time he got WB's DF I really don't see anymore reason to hide that he's a Cerberus zoan user anymore. I think there's a lot of other stuff hidden from us that happened under the black sheet and Marco hinting at his abnormal body(which I'm assuming has nothing to do with DFs).

The fact that one person cannot hold multiple fruits, would make it IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to have multiple fruits which isn't the case anymore. So our guess is that 3 heads allow for 1 fruit per head. If you have a better guess for why he can hold multiple fruits, then your theory might be better. But read my points as to why it cannot be Yami fruit that gives him this ability

I still feel you'd have to switch head to body because Oda hasn't been that ambiguous about how DFs work in that regard it's a DF per body thing since it effects the person's entire body not just their head.

I'm up for listening to theories with some support that make sense(and are presented sensibly). Right now I feel the reason for him having 2 DFs has nothing to do with DFs specifically but an outside ability altogether.

[Kaminari]

Quote from wiki

In most works the three-heads each respectively see and represent the past, the present, and the future, while other sources suggest the heads represent birth, youth, and old age. Each of Cerberus' heads is said to have an appetite only for live meat and thus allow the spirits of the dead to freely enter the underworld, but allow none to leave.

Not sure about 2nd sentence but isn't the first one exactly what you said is the explanation for the 3 skull flag?

I still feel Shanks would've seen it or at the very least notice this half transformation or jump in speed/strength/athleticism that it'd take for him to get close and scar him. At the very least Shanks should be going around saying Teach is some kind of DF user.

I realize that it is a sketchy point, the way I see it Shanks was really beating down BB so he raged and in a split second transformed his hand. Shanks isn't on WB's crew, he wouldn't really have a reason to bring up BB having a fruit to anyone seeing as how he only mentioned his scar to WB after Ace went after BB.

I still disagree with this. Seems a bit too much for BB to get a DF(the only one mind you) that allows you to eat more than one DF, then get the DF that allows him to suck out DFs from dead DF users. At the time he got WB's DF I really don't see anymore reason to hide that he's a Cerberus zoan user anymore. I think there's a lot of other stuff hidden from us that happened under the black sheet and Marco hinting at his abnormal body(which I'm assuming has nothing to do with DFs).

Good point, my only guess atm is that he was afraid that someone would realize wtf is going on and stop him.

I still feel you'd have to switch head to body because Oda hasn't been that ambiguous about how DFs work in that regard it's a DF per body thing since it effects the person's entire body not just their head.

I'm up for listening to theories with some support that make sense(and are presented sensibly). Right now I feel the reason for him having 2 DFs has nothing to do with DFs specifically but an outside ability altogether.

It can be something outside ability but what could it be? Why has noone was able to do this before and why is he not taking more fruits? I guess there is also a Chimerism theory that could explain Yami + Gura fruits. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_%28genetics%29

[ctarlong910]

Thats just as speculative as ours is. So far all we know is that Teach's teeth constantly change, not only when hes in battle, but in between panels where hes doing nothing more than talking.
If it was just a "mistake" im sure the anime wouldve covered it, yet they include the teeth patterns in the show.
I doubt Oda would screw up that much. Seriously, what artist doesnt notice that hes changing the amount of teeth missing in one of the most prime, main characters in the series. If so many of us noticed Teach's teeth patterns, theres no way in hell Oda --The guy who actually drew it up-- wouldnt notice.
Sure, it could be just a mistake, but it supports the cerberus theory, so I would be stupid not to use it.
Ill start looking to see if there are three different patterns, can you show me a few panels where theres more than three?

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/576/05/
2 on top, 2 on bottom
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/581/15/
0 on top, 0 on bottom
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/577/16-17/
2 on top, 1 on bottom
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/543/16-17/
1 on top, X on bottom

Though I will admit, I'm starting to waver, it was actually difficult to find a pattern other than the first 3.

maybe the same way Zoro could hear steel breathing?

So now they're invisible? How did luffy see them?

That quote is just as much of a personal opinion as mine.

Yeah, except with mine there is actually stuff in the manga to back it up.

Point me in the direction as to where you got your evidence to support this. And even if it is, that doesnt mean it cant have dual meanings. If it turns out it represents the three fates, that give the Cerberus theory even more credibility.

Guess what else "fits perfectly with his theme"? The Cerberus does, plenty.
The three heads of a cerberus represent the three fates (just like a lot of people believe Teach's flag does) -- past, present and future -- So if you want to use what "fits with Teach's theme" as an argument, the Cerberus theory fits his "theme" better than anything else ive read on here.

No, but it ties up a so called "loose end" which was my point.

Okay, if it could be "caused by anything" then it could also be caused by the claw of a Cerberus.

Yeah, but we know he has finger nails and access to knives. We don't know he has a Cerberus fruit.

So let me get this straight, your telling me that Teach "trained" his fingernails to become strong enough to inflict a wound deep enough, to scar them for life. Need I bring up a picture of shanks?
You would have to have some strong, long, pointy fingernails to permanently scar a Yonkou, without the use of a devil fruit ability?

The fact that Teach seems to rely so much on his devil fruit ability, would lead one to believe that he isnt naturally that good of a fighter, and if you got in a rumble with a yonkou im sure you would have to pull out all of your lowest, dirtiest tricks to survive.

Or that he is just strong in general. He was in whitebeards crew for years and fought without DF powers. He was also able to kill thatch. He relies no more on his DF than Enel did or Magellan.


I actually don't know man, I think you had some pretty good arguments, and I felt like I was grasping at straws allot with this. I still don't think he has a Cerberus Zoan, but I can certainly see where you're coming from.

[Drake]

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/576/05/
2 on top, 2 on bottom
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/581/15/
0 on top, 0 on bottom
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/577/16-17/
2 on top, 1 on bottom
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/543/16-17/
1 on top, X on bottom

Though I will admit, I'm starting to waver, it was actually difficult to find a pattern other than the first 3.

All, except one of those panels were found either directly after a fight or during a fight. And naturally, people lose teeth in a fight. The teeth patterns argument is based off of when Teach isnt near any violence whatsoever, when he is just talking and his teeth change in between panels. Its virtually impossible for either sides of the argument to prove themselves when using proof found in chapters where a fight is taking place, and Teach is involved.

Chapter 543 was found in impel down, after Teach already started infiltrating it, and no doubt already had more than one confrontation with the personnel in impel down.

Chapter 576 was found as he entered the war after he left impel down. And right before he got beasted by Newgate.

Chapter 577 was directly after he got beasted by Newgate.

Chapter 581 was a flashback, as to when he arrived at level 6 in impel down.

Anyways, long story short, those panels arent close enough time-wise together to present a reasonable argument against the teeth patterns, plus most of them were found either directly before a battle, during a battle, or after a battle.

So now they're invisible? How did luffy see them?

I never thought that they saw them. I believe that they sensed them.

Yeah, except with mine there is actually stuff in the manga to back it up.

a lot of mine is just theories, but there is plenty of manga reference available to support my side. Plus the only thing out of the manga that you used to support your argument, was the teeth patterns and how there are more than three different patterns, and even then, they arent absolute truth.

No, but it ties up a so called "loose end" which was my point.

well, the Cerberus theory ties up more than just one "loose end". And in this case, the Cerberus theory ties up that loose end as well.

Yeah, but we know he has finger nails and access to knives. We don't know he has a Cerberus fruit.

We know that he doesnt have long, thick, sharp fingernails brutal enough to scar a Yonkou for life.
When have we ever seen Teach fight with knives? let alone three of them. Just that he had "access" to knives isnt a good argument against this.
And yes, I know we dont know, thats why its called a theory. I was speaking from the mindset "if he did".

Or that he is just strong in general. He was in whitebeards crew for years and fought without DF powers. He was also able to kill thatch. He relies no more on his DF than Enel did or Magellan.

Thats a possibility.
And obviously, being a member of Newgates crew doesnt require strength, just that Teach was on his ship doesnt mean that he held a high position on his ship. He couldve easily joined as a fodder.
As for killing Thatch, that could be either way. We dont have enough insight on the fight (as far as I know..?) to know whether or not it was an actual fight. For all we know Teach couldve slit his throat in his sleep. For all we know, there couldve been no-one there to witness the fight, and Teach just soloed him and killed him with the Cerberus ability. Or even if there were witnesses, he couldve done a minor transformation to kill him, and that couldve easily started the whole "abnormal body" thing, and lead to everyones unease towards Teach.
"killing thatch" can be used to support my side of the spectrum just as much as yours.

Actually, using Enel or Magellan supports my side. Both Enel and Magellan relied heavily on their abilities. Just like Teach, and when something happened that made it so their ability would work no longer, they took a lot of damage.

[Zik]

LOL @ sensing 3 heads on one body.

[Deicide]

Chapter 576 was found as he entered the war after he left impel down. And right before he got beasted by Newgate.

Chapter 577 was directly after he got beasted by Newgate.

So Teach gained a tooth during the battle?

[Cyan D. Funk]

Guys, you have it all wrong.

Blackbeard doesn't have the Cerberus Cerberus Fruit, he has the Teeth Teeth Fruit! It lets him randomly grow and lose teeth at will!

[ctarlong910]

TBH, Drake, my point was that the theory doesn't really tie up any loose ends that aren't already tied up. I see where your coming from, but I just don't agree with you. I will confess that you argued better than me. But I just don't think I'm going to agree with you. Hope you're not angry.

[Drake]

So Teach gained a tooth during the battle?

Maybe he switched heads during battle.
Thats why its virtually impossible for either side to use the teeth argument, especially if the panels used to support it are multiple chapters apart, or in the heat of battle.

TBH, Drake, my point was that the theory doesn't really tie up any loose ends that aren't already tied up. I see where your coming from, but I just don't agree with you. I will confess that you argued better than me. But I just don't think I'm going to agree with you. Hope you're not angry.

pssh, not angry at all. Im glad you disagreed with me, debate is fun. Atleast you didnt verbally insult me because you disagreed, like Zik does.

I guess we're just gonna have to wait and see for now then

[Deicide]

My own personal theory is that Teach used the powers of the Yami Yami No Mi to "suck" Whitebeard's powers. Since WB was dead, the Gura Gura powers reamained in Teach's body.

As for how Teach was able to hold on to two powers without dying, I think the simplest solution is best: he's a "D". The "D"s are special people, with a great will to live and powerful life force. That's why they eat so much: to sustain their great life force. The combination of a powerful body, strong will and great life force allows "D"s to hold on to more than a Devil Fruit power.

ANd with Shanks getting Ace's body, I don't find it impossible that maybe way there by the end of the series, Luffy also gets a second fruit (Ace's Mera Mera no Mi), though personally I hope Luffy remains the underdog with just one DF power.

[Cyan D. Funk]

I'm just going with it being a combination of the Yami Yami and his special body structure that Butters was talking about.

[Muda Muda no Mi]

So, it's okay to say that the Yami² has the ability to extract a DF power from a dead person, but not HOLD it!? Seriously?

No each of those points targets a specific hole.

And I covered how every one of these could be possible with what we know he has at his disposal AT THIS MOMENT!

1 - Why he can have more than 1 fruit.

We know the Yami Yami no mi absorbs devil fruit powers. Is it so hard to accept the idea that MAYBE it also stores/keeps Devil fruit powers using some unexplained method?

2 - Why world government didn't know that he could do this, thus allowing him to get WB's fruit.

Until the incident at Marineford, nobody associated with the World Government KNEW he HAD the Yami Yami no mi. The only one who knew it was the Yami Yami no mi was Ace, and that's only because Blackbeard told him back on Banaro Island. Everyone who saw the Yami Yami no mi in action (everyone he ran into at Impel Down that saw it in action including Luffy, Jimbei, Crocodile, Ivankov, etc.), weren't predisposed to knowing Blackbeard having this Fruit Ability, nor were they told what it was when seeing it in action. Even the Whitebeard crew might've known what fruit it was when Thatch discovered it. But, no matter who saw the fruit, not one of them are the type to supply the World Government with one ounce of information regarding Blackbeard having the Yami Yami no mi anyways!

The various guards at Impel Down, who actually saw that Blackbeard had possession of the Yami Yami no mi, are the only World Government officials that I know of who could supply the information. But, assuming Blackbeard didn't suck them into the darkness and turn them comatose, they wouldn't have any way of telling anyone outside anyways, thanks to the communications being cut off. And even then, they'd have to know that Blackbeard's abilities were due to the Yami Yami no mi and not some other fruit and they'd have to be knowledgeable on Devil Fruit mythology, characteristics and what have you to make such an observation. And you can't tell me that every guard there is as well-versed on Devil Fruits as, say, Vegapunk or some of the higher-ups in the World Government.

Hanyaabal, MAYBE, caught a glimpse of the Yami Yami no mi, and maybe might know a thing or two about devil fruits, but he was put out of the situation the minute Blackbeard set foot on Level 4 (before showing his abilities). Magellan even moreso, if maybe he let Blackbeard actually SHOW him his abilities BEFORE he poisoned the shit out of Blackbeard and his crew.

3 - Why he doesn't take any other fruit, Ace was in a walking distance from him. And why he isn't interested in getting more fruits.

Yeah, you can surmise that Ace was MAYBE a few feet from him! Or you can surmise that Ace was a few yards, or a few meters from him. Regardless of how far he was from Blackbeard, there wasn't enough time for Blackbeard to make the trip to Ace's body so he could snag his fruit as well. Without going back to the actual chapters, I can easily tell you that once Blackbeard made his appearance on the Execution Stand in Marineford, he:

Was knocked off the Execution stand by Whitebeard (thanks to an earthquake directed at him ~~> Got his ass handed to him by Whitebeard ~~> Had his crew lay the finishing touches on Whitebeard (via bullets and stab wounds) ~~> Got chastised by Whitebeard about not being a true D or whatever ~~> Hides under a blanket after Whitebeard dies ~~> Does his thing, however long that took and by however method ~~> reveals himself from the blanket ~~> Uses Black Hole again to hold the Marine soldiers in place ~~> Uses the GURA GURA powers ~~> Cheers for a bit with his crew ~~> Get's sucker-PALMED by Sengoku ~~> Leaves once Shanks shows up....

Now, can you see where through all this that Blackbeard had time to mosey on over to Ace's body and take his fruit as well? Especially after he had to show everyone that he took WB's fruit? Do you think the Marines would have LET him mosey on over to Ace's corpse after showing he HAD the ability to take another's fruit powers? And, couldn't it be possible that maybe no one in the WG KNEW the Yami Yami no mi had this "unique" characteristic to store/keep Devil Fruit powers UNTIL Blackbeard showed them he is capable of doing it on Marineford? After all, you can just as easily say that they knew that the Yami Yami could absorb fruits on a living person, but said fruits only return to the user after the contact is broken. Maybe they didn't know that a dead user's fruits can be stolen for good because MAYBE, they didn't research that side of it before writing the book....

In other words what I am suggesting is that description for Yami fruit is something like:
Allows user to nullify DF powers but it has a side effect = if used on a dead person it can extract and absorb the victims fruit thus making Yami user explode.

Now you're just making shit up to justify your own theory instead of accepting the possibility that the Yami Yami no mi allows Blackbeard to have another fruit's powers. I can easily say the same about having a fruit to a head would make the body explode, since the Cerberus is ONE being, with ONE BODY and 3 heads, but I won't because you have the right to stand by your theory (even if people DO bring up legitimate reasons or counter-arguments against it). LoL, I just find it funny you would go to the lengths of shooting down something without accepting someone else's possible ideas about the same issue!

My own personal theory is that Teach used the powers of the Yami Yami No Mi to "suck" Whitebeard's powers. Since WB was dead, the Gura Gura powers reamained in Teach's body.

I'm just going with it being a combination of the Yami Yami and his special body structure that Butters was talking about.

I concur with these 2 possibilities!

[Uncle Kenny]

That's stupid. It's already an unheard of feat to be able to hold 2 devil fruit powers. Just because someone can hold more than the norm doesn't mean that they can do it infinitely.

[Drake]

That's stupid. It's already an unheard of feat to be able to hold 2 devil fruit powers. Just because someone can hold more than the norm doesn't mean that they can do it infinitely.

What would stop him from doing it infinitely?

Thats another loose end the Cerberus theory ties up, it would limit the amount of fruits he can have. And so far, thats better than just guessing that the Yami Yami has some type of limit to the amount of abilities it can hold.

Im sure the Marines and World Government are thinking "oh shit, we dont know how many abilities he can have now that he has two. Teach is a dangerous man"...This would also explain why he wouldnt have made the Cerberus ability public.

[Uncle Kenny]

It's not a matter of the devil fruit's limits but rather the limit of the person himself. Don't pretend that you know the "abnormality" Blackbeard has. It can be anything from the Will of D to an abnormal body structure where he has two of everything in his body to even an unborn brother/sister in his stomach. That would equally tie up any loose ends whereas the cerebus theory is just one (abliet, less likely) more theory.

Plus, Cerebus has three heads, not three bodies. Guessing the Yami Yami's abilities (a confirmed fruit) is a lot better than guessing the abilities of a fruit that, as far as we know, doesn't even freaking exist.