General Blackbeard Thread

[IvanKing]

I love how Oda has written BB's rise to where he is today. Remember when he was first introduced? Nobody in the higher up Marines knew who he was, and all but Drum Island residents knew of him. His navigator proposes BB as a candidate for Shichibukai and they begin targeting big name pirates. Eventually he runs into Ace, defeats, which is the first time the world takes real notice of him. And now, he appears at the end of the war, shocks EVERYONE with his new crewmates, and to the eyes of the public "kills" Whitebeard. His growth and potential are what's frightening about him.

[mickgreen58]

They didn't see Luffy actually do anything though. To use an analogy, it's more like Luffy has come off to be a rookie with promise to become a great boxer one day while BB just took the heavy weight title.

This.

Nobody in the world is going to be intimidated by Luffy. Especially the Marines and the remaining Yonkou. As you stated, Luffy will be regarded as an individual with promise and the Marines will see him as someone who could be come a huge threat later, if he is not taken down.

Blackbeard on the other hand is now a force to be reckoned with and is now among the elite Pirate Crews in the World and this makes him very dangerous to the Marines and those that seek One Piece .

[Chrissie]

Ok you lost me there :/. Everyone was already out looking for One Piece and now WB confirms it exists. How does that change much? In the power balance of the world however it seems there been a symbolic change of venue, Whitebeard (white=good) who was using his name to protect a lot of island and stuff, has now been replaced by Blackbeard (black=evil).

Do I need to remind you the 'New Era' Doflamingo was talking about? And how those guys like Bellamy didn't think that OP existed and it was but a fool's dream? It's one thing to believe OP exists and another to KNOW that it does. Sengoku sure cursed WB when he confirmed what he did. The audience sure had their jaws dropped when they heard those words. Heck even BB had a 'heck yes!' expression on his face.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/576/14-15/
Imo the headlines will be "OP really exists" WB's death will come second.

[mickgreen58]

I love how Oda has written BB's rise to where he is today. Remember when he was first introduced? Nobody in the higher up Marines knew who he was, and all but Drum Island residents knew of him. His navigator proposes BB as a candidate for Shichibukai and they begin targeting big name pirates. Eventually he runs into Ace, defeats, which is the first time the world takes real notice of him. And now, he appears at the end of the war, shocks EVERYONE with his new crewmates, and to the eyes of the public "kills" Whitebeard. His growth and potential are what's frightening about him.

Yeah, I believe his character has been brilliantly developed.

Also, when I think of Blackbeard's rise from near obscurity, I think of what Shanks basically told Whitebeard, "Blackbeard has been hiding behind a huge shadow called Whitebeard".

[Ivotas]

Not sure how we came to argue about this so much though, because WB's actual strength isn't really relevant, what matters is the message that is going to do the rounds in the world about what happened here.

Yeah, but the point I'm desperately trying to make is that what you suggest isn't the only way what the audience could make of it. They might just aswell think, "this weaklings knew that don't stand a chance against Whitebeard so they struck when he was exhausted". This is a valid interpretation for the audience. And an "ultimate show that will shake the world to its core" shouldn't allow any room for such an interpretation. That's all I'm saying.

They didn't see Luffy actually do anything though. To use an analogy, it's more like Luffy has come off to be a rookie with promise to become a great boxer one day while BB just took the heavy weight title.

As I said before, they should be able to count 2 and 2 toghether. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Luffy played a keyrole in getting Ace away from the scaffold when they see the two of them standing next to each other. Not with the reputation Luffy has and with the feats the audience could see on screen.

This.

Nobody in the world is going to be intimidated by Luffy. Especially the Marines and the remaining Yonkou. As you stated, Luffy will be regarded as an individual with promise and the Marines will see him as someone who could be come a huge threat later, if he is not taken down.

I think I've covered this several times right now. If freeing the Level 6 prisoners counts as an impressive feat for Teach, then the same has to apply for Luffy too. And yes, they did witness him appearing with Impel Down prisoners. That's one point.

The other point is that in all this commotion he makes Sengoku (who has far more important things to attend to) goes "oh shitnaps, he is the worlds worst criminals son, kill him immediately!" Shortly afterwards Luffy OHKOs a giant.

Pair that with the news Luffy made with destroying Enies Lobby, declaring war on the WG and punching a Tenryubito straight to the face and I see no way why anybody in the audience should not be intimedated by Luffy.

Also as I said above, they should be able to count 2 and 2 together when they see that Ace isn't on the scaffold but standing next to Luffy. Combine all of that and even the dumbest of morons in the audience should comprehend that Luffy is displaying quite some impressive feats himself.

[wintergt]

Do I need to remind you the 'New Era' Doflamingo was talking about? And how those guys like Bellamy didn't think that OP existed and it was but a fool's dream? It's one thing to believe OP exists and another to KNOW that it does. Sengoku sure cursed WB when he confirmed what he did. The audience sure had their jaws dropped when they heard those words. Heck even BB had a 'heck yes!' expression on his face.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/576/14-15/
Imo the headlines will be "OP really exists" WB's death will come second.

Bellamy was one of the only ones I can remember to cast doubt on the existence of OP, everyone else (like the supernova etc) are already out to find it. Whitebeard's statement looked like it was just for dramatic effect to me. When Whitebeard asked Shanks about his lost arm, Shanks said he bet it on the New Era, ie Luffy. So the New Era refers to the disappearance of the older established values and the importance of the new generation. That is why WB's death will mark the New Era.

Yeah, but the point I'm desperately trying to make is that what you suggest isn't the only way what the audience could make of it. They might just aswell think, "this weaklings knew that don't stand a chance against Whitebeard so they struck when he was exhausted". This is a valid interpretation for the audience. And an "ultimate show that will shake the world to its core" shouldn't allow any room for such an interpretation. That's all I'm saying.

It seems you are mostly disappointed as a reader at this point. I expect Oda to to put emphasis on just why Blackbeard's actions "shook the world" in the upcoming chapters which should make these matters more clear. Have some faith ;)

As I said before, they should be able to count 2 and 2 toghether. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Luffy played a keyrole in getting Ace from the scaffold when they see the two of them stand next to each other. Not with the reputation Luffy has and with the feats the audience could see on screen.

Ok speculating about how the crowd will react is just a difference of opinion, so let's try a different perspective. If Luffy's performance in the eyes of the viewers outshines Blackbeard's who is openly defying the marines, walked right through their army and killed WB with his super scary crew, what do you think will happen in the continuation of the story? Is everyone going to grovel at Luffy's feet and run away in fear when they see him now? I would say he has shown great potential but won't be regarded as a great threat *just yet* whereas BB has just catapulted himself to a top spot.

[blue-san]

wintergt I am waiting for your review of the chapter

[Ivotas]

It seems you are mostly disappointed as a reader at this point. I expect Oda to to put emphasis on just why Blackbeard's actions "shook the world" in the upcoming chapters which should make these matters more clear. Have some faith ;)

As I said, I admit that I'm being disappointed as a reader BUT still I think I have a point in the audience argument too. You just can't deny the fact that he arrived at a very late moment, where Whitebeard already has wasted energy. How much is defintily up in the air but it is gone. And this will always leave a bitter taste to his victory.

Ok speculating about how the crowd will react is just a difference of opinion, so let's try a different perspective. If Luffy's performance in the eyes of the viewers outshines Blackbeard's who is openly defying the marines, walked right through their army and killed WB with his super scary crew, what do you think will happen in the continuation of the story? Is everyone going to grovel at Luffy's feet and run away in fear when they see him now? I would say he has shown great potential but won't be regarded as a great threat *just yet* whereas BB has just catapulted himself to a top spot.

Same argument as above. The idea that it was only possible because Whitebeard consumed most of his energy can't be denied. Yes, he will get acknowledged for being the one that claimed Newgate's head. But not as much as if he would have done so by taking down a fit Newgate. Do you not see the difference the difference here? In the sports world the audience always talks about winners that ain't really that good because they took advantage of an opponts bad condition. Why should the audience in the OP world be any different when they just witnessed a similar situation themselves?

[IceBorg]

wintergt I am waiting for your review of the chapter

Me too those are really funny

[wintergt]

As I said, I admit that I'm being disappointed as a reader BUT still I think I have a point in the audience argument too. You just can't deny the fact that he arrived at a very late moment, where Whitebeard already has wasted energy. How much is defintily up in the air but it is gone. And this will always leave a bitter taste to his victory.

Same argument as above. The idea that it was only possible because Whitebeard consumed most of his energy can't be denied. Yes, he will get acknowledged for being the one that claimed Newgate's head. But not as much as if he would have done so by taking down a fit Newgate. Do you not see the difference the difference here? In the sports world the audience always talks about winners that ain't really that good because they took advantage of an opponts bad condition. Why should the audience in the OP world be any different when they just witnessed a similar situation themselves?

I am not actually disagreeing that it is less of a victory to take him out in his current condition than if he was in his prime or that an audience could think his victory is phony because of that (like I said before that was the reason I was starting to doubt he would still show up), but the way the story flows I think he will get full credit and status from the kill. And it makes total sense too if you think about how mass psychology works and how word of mouth information spreads. In any case we should find out about the general opinion (of the OP world) within a week or two because there should be plenty of crowd reactions and afterthoughts coming.

About my recap I had the draft done on wednesday but I have been feeling pretty sick the last few days and didn't do much but sleep Should come tomorrow.

[Ivotas]

I am not actually disagreeing that it is less of a victory to take him out in his current condition than if he was in his prime or that an audience could think his victory is phony because of that (like I said before that was the reason I was starting to doubt he would still show up), but the way the story flows I think he will get full credit and status from the kill. And it makes total sense too if you think about how mass psychology works and how word of mouth information spreads. In any case we should find out about the general opinion (of the OP world) within a week or two because there should be plenty of crowd reactions and afterthoughts coming.

You're definitely right that mouth psychology will work wonders in terms of boosting his reputation. But that was never my argument. My argument is that beating an exhausted person (even if it is the worlds strongest man) isn't really an ultimate show. The after effects will definitely rock the world to it's core but the performance itself isn't more of a big show then witnessing Squads turn.

[freedom]

576-p3 - We cannot allow a single one of them to return to this world

I wanted to quote other sources as well, but I don't have the time.

Let's forget about BB actually planning to attack the marines. Are we really to believe that the marines will just let BB walk off with four level six deathrow inmates and potentially the destruction of Impel Down. I just can't imagine that something else isn't going to go down. Now, if Oda chooses to show us, that's a whole other question. But something's going down.

[Zik]

I wonder what his bounty will be after he escapes? 1 billion?

[Ivotas]

Let's forget about BB actually planning to attack the marines. Are we really to believe that the marines will just let BB walk off with four level six deathrow inmates and potentially the destruction of Impel Down. I just can't imagine that something else isn't going to go down. Now, if Oda chooses to show us, that's a whole other question. But something's going down.

Agreed. Especially after the explenation Teach gave. I he would have said that he did that because he as a former WB Pirate knew this is the only way of victory and acted on his own accord because he knew that Sengoku would never allow it, than at least I think the Marines could be reasoned with. But openly claiming that he has played them for fools and used them to his own advantage? Who knows what else he could come up with if he leaves now? Like hell they are letting him go!

[wintergt]

You're definitely right that mouth psychology will work wonders in terms of boosting his reputation. But that was never my argument. My argument is that beating an exhausted person (even if it is the worlds strongest man) isn't really an ultimate show. The after effects will definitely rock the world to it's core but the performance itself isn't more of a big show then witnessing Squads turn.

I guess our opinions don't differ too much then. But for me I was starting to doubt if he would show up to kill WB so pretty pleased that he did after all (and not some random "show" somewhere unrelated), plus the fact that he so openly pissed all over the marines was pretty unexpected for me. This last bit ofcourse also implies that the show's not over yet.

[IvanKing]

I guess our opinions don't differ too much then. But for me I was starting to doubt if he would show up to kill WB so pretty pleased that he did after all (and not some random "show" somewhere unrelated), plus the fact that he so openly pissed all over the marines was pretty unexpected for me. This last bit ofcourse also implies that the show's not over yet.

The way he talked, it sounded like Blackbeard had been watching for a while, and was waiting for the right moment to act. It was obvious from how he attacked WB that he was confident his Darkness powers could stop WB. His backpack plan must have been the "Lets All Gang Up On Him" part. BB may be overconfident but he also plots thoroughly, and the way his plans have gone so far show it. I expect he planned on how to escape as well so I expect him and the BB Pirates to make it out of there.

[mickgreen58]

Agreed. Especially after the explenation Teach gave. I he would have said that he did that because he as a former WB Pirate knew this is the only way of victory and acted on his own accord because he knew that Sengoku would never allow it, than at least I think the Marines could be reasoned with. But openly claiming that he has played them for fools and used them to his own advantage? Who knows what else he could come up with if he leaves now? Like hell they are letting him go!

Agreed.

At the end of the last chapter, Teach is surrounded by Marines on 1 side and the NW Pirates on the other side.

For his sake, I hope he took into account the possibility that both sides might make a play for his life.

[Chrissie]

Bellamy was one of the only ones I can remember to cast doubt on the existence of OP, everyone else (like the supernova etc) are already out to find it. Whitebeard's statement looked like it was just for dramatic effect to me. When Whitebeard asked Shanks about his lost arm, Shanks said he bet it on the New Era, ie Luffy. So the New Era refers to the disappearance of the older established values and the importance of the new generation. That is why WB's death will mark the New Era.

No, Bellamy wasn't the only one. He was simply the 'representative' of the new ideology that only fools dream and believe in things like One Piece or the Sky Islands. At least that's the impression he and the people of Mock Town left on me.
I wasn't talking about the New Era Shanks was referring to, but the one Doflamingo thinks is coming. I really doubt those two were mentioning the same 'New Era' with the same values. Granted both are about the importance of the new generation, but the values each thinks that are going to be established are completely different imo (at least Doflamingo hasn't given me the impression that he shares the same opinions as Shanks about the New Era). The fact that WB confirmed that the legendary treasure OP does exist, makes it more possible for the 'New Era' Shanks was talking about, to come since even the people in towns like Mock Town will find it hard to deny its existence now.

[Deicide]

I don't think DoFlamingo shares Bellamy's ideas. Here's from Stephen's script:

- Page 151 -

Crew: Bellamy!!!
Sarquiss!!
Please, stop them!!!

Sarquiss: Please...!!
Stop it...!!!
Why...?!

People: What's going on?!
Sarquiss looks worse...

Doflamingo: Why?
You want to know why? Sarquiss...
Bellamy...
Because MY symbol
has been disgraced. Why else?
Hahaha!! Hah hah hah!!

- Page 152 -

Doflamingo: Whether Sky Island exists...
or not,
or if the City of Gold is an illusion
or not...
neither of those matter... right, Bellamy...?
You use both opinions... AND PIN 'EM DOWN!!!

- Page 153 -

People: Donquixote Doflamingo...
Ah...
It's a "Shichibukai"...!!
He used to be worth 300 million Berries.
So what is he doing here...?

Doflamingo: I don't need...
COMMON THUGS IN MY RANKS, BOYS...!!

Sarquiss: Aaah...!!!
Shit...!! My body won't...!! ...aah!!
Stop it...!! Please, don't!! NO!!!

Person: Bellamy!!!

- Page 154 -

Bellamy: ...give me...!! Another chance...!!!
I...
I'll follow your orders!!!

Crew: Bellamy!!
Bellamy... that's enough!!!

Bellamy: ...I've lost...
Hahh...
But I never intended to go against your ideas!!! I swear to the symbol!!
It's just... this is how I do things!!!
Destroy all those weakminded fools...
and someday I'll be where you are.

Doflamingo: ...sigh...
You're making me cry, my sweet, obedient henchman.
You know, Bellamy...
that's what I like about you...!!
...hahahahahaha...!!! The "New Era" is nearly upon us.
Feel free to do what you want.
...but,

- Page 155 -

Doflamingo: I don't need you on my side.

Sarquiss: AAAAAH!!

Bellamy: Dofla...

People: AAAAAAHH!!
Kyaaa!!

Doflamingo: Mmmmmm... hahahaha!!!

People: That 55 million rookie, Bellamy...!!!
Tossed around like a child...

Doflamingo: HAH HAH HAH!! IT'S COMING!!
HURRY!! MAKE YOUR PREPARATIONS!!!
GET READY FOR A WORLD IN WHICH ONLY THE REAL PIRATES WILL SURVIVE!!!
WEAK AND HELPLESS, RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!
THE UNCONTROLLABLE WAVES WILL BRING
A "NEW ERA" OF GREAT MEN AND HEROES!! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Bellamy seems to kick out weaklings and don't believe in dreams.

DoFlamingo, however, thinks that might makes right, and judge people by their strength, rather than their beliefs. Since Bellamy lost, he's now worthless to DoFlamingo.

[Chrissie]

I don't think DoFlamingo shares Bellamy's ideas. Here's from Stephen's script:



Bellamy seems to kick out weaklings and don't believe in dreams.

DoFlamingo, however, thinks that might makes right, and judge people by their strength, rather than their beliefs. Since Bellamy lost, he's now worthless to DoFlamingo.

Ahh! I see. So Doflamingo is indifferent towards dreams and beliefs and only cares about how powerful someone is. Isn't that different from what Shanks believes though? Shanks never gave me the impression that he cares more about strength than dreams. Blackbeard's view on the New Era is also different than Doflamingo's since he does believe that dreams are what matter the most.