Shichibukai Discussion Thread

[shadow]

I don't really remember the attack but it was in the chapter that she fought and petrify one of the WB pirates who had a cannon-like gun in his hand.She half-petrified his head and she also petrified a cannonball.Anyway it doesn't matter which attack did it but that it DID it!

[KaizokuOLuffy]

Yes, you're talking about Slave Arrow and Perfume Femur...

[One_Piece_Of_My_Mind]

How is any of this relevant. Both use their fruits to their full capabilities which include toying and manipulating others. If they switched fruits they would employ the very same strategies. Both can use their fruits to fight in close quarters if they wish but primarily do not though Moriah clearly isn't afraid to do so. His thing is just laziness in his old age. You're just making up different psych profiles to degrade one fighter over another with the same style of fighting. Comment about being too weak makes no real sense. If you notice Moriah's story is the same as Ace and Luffy's. He is the way he is because he lost his crew and had nobody like Jinbei and Rayleigh supporting him through his grief. Funny I see post saying they don't relate to Moriah as if a sadist, megalomaniac, racist, and narcissist that make up our former villains are reflections of their fanbases.



Why? That is his power.



Buggy only occasionally capitalizes on his luck. Most of his rep comes from other characters concocting his motives for all his actions.

Look Moria's a bitch in my opinion that's all there is too it really. I gave my reasons for why I think he's a bitch and you can't really say I'm wrong and you gave me your opinion why he's not and I'm not gonna say your wrong. There's no point arguing over opinions, it just leads in circles.

[MonsterEnvy]

Im about to get into an debate about Crocodile with someone be ready

[Louis cypher]

I just personally don't like the idea of Vegapunk not being good enough to at least keep someone at the same level with his improvements. The deal to replace Kuma's entire body had been made before he disobeyed those orders, though.

Yes, but when they made the deal Kuma was presumably still working against them, I don't think making him stronger was necessarily the biggest factor in their decision to get him on their side. Using Kuma as the template for the Pacifista has a bunch of benefits: it gets rid of an enemy of the WG, it makes the pacifista's much more intimidating by using someone powerful, and it lets them do the work without having to experiment on their own people (not that they wouldn't, just that it's better for them in they don't have too). Vegapunk was doing a lot more than just changing one person into a robot, he was designing a whole bunch of them based off of that one, even if they are weaker it's still a huge achievement.

[mcdreamy]

In the pirate world winning and losing is all that matters. What they can do with their powers and all that speculative bs doesn't matter, Luffy's defeated two shichibukais pre-time skip and anyone of them that takes a clean hit from him now will go down.

[igetownd]

Oars wasn't made of rubber, he did take damage, he just didn't feel the pain. That's why later Oars couldn't move his arm to defend against gigant bazooka.

I've seen Brook pierce through Oars' right shoulder (in a combo attack with Usopp, Robin, and Nami), so I think the most damage came from that. Most of Luffy's hits were body blows, that while looking awesome, were ultimately ineffective.

[One_Piece_Of_My_Mind]

Im about to get into an debate about Crocodile with someone be ready

Just out of curiosity why do you think Croc is still stronger?

[MonsterEnvy]

Just out of curiosity why do you think Croc is still stronger?

pre time skip I think Croc is stronger he may be weaker post time skip though Crocodile may have gotten stronger as well.

The main things for me is that Croc never really tried in his fights with Luffy.

1st fight let Luffy hit him for a few minutes then one shoted him. (Luffy only Lived because Robin was around to save him)

2nd fight after seeing that Luffy was capable of hitting him and getting annoyed with him he felt like trying and sucked luffy dry. (Luffy only survived because of some water he had shot in the air came back down and rehydrated him out of pure luck)

3rd fight Crocodile never used any of his power's and he still drawed with Luffy as Luffy was dying from Poison while Crocodile was knocked out if Robin had not had some antidote on her Luffy would have died while Croc would have lived.

none of these fights are really good judges of Croc's full power.

at the war of the best Crocodile had no problems keeping up with any of the big names like Mihawk, Doflamingo, Jozu and Akainu. (hell he did better against Mihawk then Jinbei did and better against Akainu then anyone other then Whitebeard did.)

he just showed he was on a high level at the war of the best and was one of the best .

hell his low shichibounty could have been his starting one for all we know and he was invited just after getting it like Boa was.

[Arkman]

I've seen Brook pierce through Oars' right shoulder (in a combo attack with Usopp, Robin, and Nami), so I think the most damage came from that.

I brought the arm thing just to reference the fact that Oars was taking damage while not feeling the pain.

Most of Luffy's hits were body blows, that while looking awesome, were ultimately ineffective.

Why is his body invulnerable to punches? Is not like he was made of rubber.

[One_Piece_Of_My_Mind]

pre time skip I think Croc is stronger he may be weaker post time skip though Crocodile may have gotten stronger as well.

The main things for me is that Croc never really tried in his fights with Luffy.

1st fight let Luffy hit him for a few minutes then one shoted him. (Luffy only Lived because Robin was around to save him)

2nd fight after seeing that Luffy was capable of hitting him and getting annoyed with him he felt like trying and sucked luffy dry. (Luffy only survived because of some water he had shot in the air came back down and rehydrated him out of pure luck)

3rd fight Crocodile never used any of his power's and he still drawed with Luffy as Luffy was dying from Poison while Crocodile was knocked out if Robin had not had some antidote on her Luffy would have died while Croc would have lived.

none of these fights are really good judges of Croc's full power.

at the war of the best Crocodile had no problems keeping up with any of the big names like Mihawk, Doflamingo, Jozu and Akainu. (hell he did better against Mihawk then Jinbei did and better against Akainu then anyone other then Whitebeard did.)

he just showed he was on a high level at the war of the best and was one of the best .

hell his low shichibounty could have been his starting one for all we know and he was invited just after getting it like Boa was.

Okay I agree with you on him being stronger post timeskip because Luffy did get lucky but he also just had the will to dig deeper. But post timeskip I would say it's safe to say Luffy is stronger just because he's got the gears and he can use haki now. So he should be able to beast Croc.

[Captain Brooke]

pre time skip I think Croc is stronger he may be weaker post time skip though Crocodile may have gotten stronger as well.

The main things for me is that Croc never really tried in his fights with Luffy.

1st fight let Luffy hit him for a few minutes then one shoted him. (Luffy only Lived because Robin was around to save him)

2nd fight after seeing that Luffy was capable of hitting him and getting annoyed with him he felt like trying and sucked luffy dry. (Luffy only survived because of some water he had shot in the air came back down and rehydrated him out of pure luck)

3rd fight Crocodile never used any of his power's and he still drawed with Luffy as Luffy was dying from Poison while Crocodile was knocked out if Robin had not had some antidote on her Luffy would have died while Croc would have lived.

none of these fights are really good judges of Croc's full power.

at the war of the best Crocodile had no problems keeping up with any of the big names like Mihawk, Doflamingo, Jozu and Akainu. (hell he did better against Mihawk then Jinbei did and better against Akainu then anyone other then Whitebeard did.)

he just showed he was on a high level at the war of the best and was one of the best .

hell his low shichibounty could have been his starting one for all we know and he was invited just after getting it like Boa was.

Ok, while some of this may be true about him being stronger than Luffy post time-skip, remember Luffy knows his weakness and has great knowledge over Haki. Croc is done!

[Soul_Bassist23]

You are trippin if you think Luffy can beast Croc post time-skip. If anything, Luffy will at best be able to fight to a draw, but a beastin it shall not be.

[AppleSauce]

One piece power Scales is that its more like Rock paper Scissors.

For Example.... Lets say Between Mihawk, Shanks, and Akainu.

Its only an example.

Mihawk Beats Shanks
Shanks Beats Akainu
Akainu Beats Mihawk.

So Who's the most Strongest Single Fighter among them?

They all of their weakness and Strength.

We have to look at each individuals Status, power, Rank, Weakness, Threat.

Power= Their ability. Weapons, haki, Devil Fruit etc..
Rank= Title. Example strongest man, admiral, etc..
Status= fame,how much hype they've had since the beginning of the story, and how its like in most manga's; Characters who will be clashing at the end of the story are the obviously the strongest.(save the best for last)
Weakness= enel to luffy... Croc to liquid, ace to magma, moria to salt(water)
Threat= Bounties, though bounties don't always mean you are a great threat Physically. Example Robin to sanji.

Spoiler:

We've seen this many times already, Enel and Luffy are the Best example.
Enel is one of the Most powerful Characters in OP, Who's bounty would be 500 million if he were on the Blue sea.

In one piece 1 on 1 Fights can have Different outcomes for every different opponent.(unless your Whitebeard)Strongest man...

Its really hard to put some characters in low tier rank when their abilities have so much potential and their abilities can harm other high rank fighters.

Their are a lot of weakness and Abilities which a weak rank fighter can have that can stop high level fighters. Perona...

Spoiler:

Everyone has something he can and cannot do.

[Ryuksgelus]

Look Moria's a bitch in my opinion that's all there is too it really. I gave my reasons for why I think he's a bitch and you can't really say I'm wrong and you gave me your opinion why he's not and I'm not gonna say your wrong. There's no point arguing over opinions, it just leads in circles.

Where did I give you my opinion? I just stated info straight from the story.

[Urouge]

Yes, but when they made the deal Kuma was presumably still working against them, I don't think making him stronger was necessarily the biggest factor in their decision to get him on their side. Using Kuma as the template for the Pacifista has a bunch of benefits: it gets rid of an enemy of the WG, it makes the pacifista's much more intimidating by using someone powerful, and it lets them do the work without having to experiment on their own people (not that they wouldn't, just that it's better for them in they don't have too). Vegapunk was doing a lot more than just changing one person into a robot, he was designing a whole bunch of them based off of that one, even if they are weaker it's still a huge achievement.

Nowhere is it implied they knew Kuma was working for the revolutionaries. If they did, they'd definitely question his motives a lot more. This was all just a deal between him and Vegapunk anyway, and I don't think the WG probably had all that much say in it, but wouldn't complain. The control of all of them will probably be transferred to Dragon at some point as Vegapunk's part of the deal, or something.

The pacifistas were being built just fine before Kuma had his brain replaced. It wasn't necessary for that.

pre time skip I think Croc is stronger he may be weaker post time skip though Crocodile may have gotten stronger as well.

The main things for me is that Croc never really tried in his fights with Luffy.

1st fight let Luffy hit him for a few minutes then one shoted him. (Luffy only Lived because Robin was around to save him)

2nd fight after seeing that Luffy was capable of hitting him and getting annoyed with him he felt like trying and sucked luffy dry. (Luffy only survived because of some water he had shot in the air came back down and rehydrated him out of pure luck)

Luffy was not able to beat Croc in his first two fights and was weaker, nobody denies that. He got lucky to come out alive both times. Doesn't really matter at all.

3rd fight Crocodile never used any of his power's and he still drawed with Luffy as Luffy was dying from Poison while Crocodile was knocked out if Robin had not had some antidote on her Luffy would have died while Croc would have lived.

While it's true that Croc should have had revenge in his loss, he still lost. The chapter in which he lost was called "surpassing the opponent" which HEAVILY implies that he was... you know... surpassed. As in he was weaker before and stronger after. Oda's words, not mine. And this was even before Luffy learned the gears, which make a massive difference.

none of these fights are really good judges of Croc's full power.

You're saying he held back in a fight he lost? Lol... he even said it was the first time he was going to be serious at the beginning, which is why he brought out the poison hook in the first place. I see a lot of Crocodile's fans make this argument, but the only reasoning they can pull out is "he didn't use all his powers." As if he'd just fight at a quarter power while he was getting knocked around, or something. It doesn't make much sense.

at the war of the best Crocodile had no problems keeping up with any of the big names like Mihawk, Doflamingo, Jozu and Akainu. (hell he did better against Mihawk then Jinbei did and better against Akainu then anyone other then Whitebeard did.)

Jozu kicked his ass in their exchange, and Croc was clearly outclassed. Against Dofla he was surviving due to his logia intangibility more than anything else (head cut off) since Dofla wasn't taking advantage of his weakness for whatever reason, maybe he didn't know it. But Croc never landed an attack either, and he didn't exactly have an excuse for that.

We never saw either Mihawk or Akainu attack him. A case can't even be made about Akainu because Akainu never even had the chance. By the time he was focused on attacking he was also facing all the division commanders at the same time. Croc managed to get a sneak attack in from behind which only annoyed Akainu due to logia intangibility. This is not impressive.

Jinbe never fought Mihawk, as that was anime filler. Croc intercepted one of Mihawk's attacks, but we have no idea what happened after that. Croc could have survived on logia intangibility, or he could have been cut up, we really don't know. What we do know is that Mihawk emerged without a scratch, so Croc was unable to touch him either.

he just showed he was on a high level at the war of the best and was one of the best.

He never did anything impressive besides survive attacks. This makes him at least as strong as Buggy.

hell his low shichibounty could have been his starting one for all we know and he was invited just after getting it like Boa was.

Yeah, though in SBS volume 36 Oda says that if he hadn't been one his bounty would be at least double, and Luffy only rose to 100 million for beating him so it probably wouldn't have been all that much higher.

[Monkey D]

Jozu kicked his ass in their exchange, and Croc was clearly outclassed. Against Dofla he was surviving due to his logia intangibility more than anything else (head cut off) since Dofla wasn't taking advantage of his weakness for whatever reason, maybe he didn't know it. But Croc never landed an attack either, and he didn't exactly have an excuse for that.

Just because of one surprise hit, you can say that Croc was clearly outclassed ? And agaisnt Dofla, let's not forget that Dofla cutted is head off by behind and that in the end both of them were standing on their two legs. About landing an attack, well he made Joz and Dofla fly, and he cutted Aka inu in half >_>.

About the luffy vs crocodile third round, my bet is that in the final attack, Luffy was unconsciously using haki (armor haki)

[KaizokuOLuffy]

About the luffy vs crocodile third round, my bet is that in the final attack, Luffy was unconsciously using haki (armor haki)

I'm too lazy to read all the previous long ass post, so just I assumed we already past the "Luffy won the final attack because of the blood on his arms".

[Urouge]

Just because of one surprise hit, you can say that Croc was clearly outclassed ?

Surprise? No. http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_pi...7/c560/11.html Croc saw it coming. The 2nd attack appeared like it would hit too if Dofla hadn't stopped it.

And agaisnt Dofla, let's not forget that Dofla cutted is head off by behind and that in the end both of them were standing on their two legs.

Point?

About landing an attack, well he made Joz and Dofla fly, and he cutted Aka inu in half >_>.

Jozu who couldn't move at the time because of Dofla. Dofla who was trying to recruit Croc instead of fighting him, and didn't really care about the attack. And as I already stated, Akainu never even saw the attack coming http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_pi...8/c578/11.html and it didn't do anything other than stall him. This isn't any more impressive than Bellamy slamming Luffy's head through the bar when he wasn't expecting it.

About the luffy vs crocodile third round, my bet is that in the final attack, Luffy was unconsciously using haki (armor haki)

There's no reason to assume this. The blood was sufficient.

[Monkey D]

Surprise? No. http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_pi...7/c560/11.html Croc saw it coming. The 2nd attack appeared like it would hit too if Dofla hadn't stopped it.

He saw it coming, but maybe too late, and as you say "it appeared like" so we can't be affirmative about this one.

Point?

My point is, since they were fighting against each other and that both of them weren't really injuried after the battle, then one isn't really stronger than the other.

Jozu who couldn't move at the time because of Dofla. Dofla who was trying to recruit Croc instead of fighting him, and didn't really care about the attack. And as I already stated, Akainu never even saw the attack coming http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_pi...8/c578/11.html and it didn't do anything other than stall him. This isn't any more impressive than Bellamy slamming Luffy's head through the bar when he wasn't expecting it.

About Jozu and Dofla, even if they couldn't move, I guess being able to send them flying isn't this easy. For Akainu, I used this exemple, as you were talking how Dofla had cut Croco's head off.

There's no reason to assume this. The blood was sufficient.

Well if I say this, it's because I have some reason to assume this ^^ (even if of course it's only an hypothesis). 1- we know that armor haki works like a protection, and even if Luffy's fists were wet, I'm not sure that it could have gone through the sand blades without being injuried like it dit.
2- For me the strenght he showed in the end, wasn't his normal strenght (being able to destroy meters of rocks just with his fist, that's pretty impressive).
3- We have seen with the wolves, that being in the frontiers of the death and using haki get on well with each other. (and here luffy was nearly dead because of the poison).
4- When I compare the colour of the blood between the start and the end of the fight, I'm thinking that it's not impossible that the blood has dried without them noticing it.

Well as I say, it's only some hypothesis, but it would replace Croco more or less on the Shichibukai level.