Though not part of my point, that pick is a wack example of Garp using Haki. Anyone without Haki could hit Marco, it's his regeneration that is giving you the false assumption that Haki is needed to hurt him.
Last edited by RomanceDawn; April 15th, 2012 at 12:53 PM.
I have a question. If BB can use haki then does he need to use his dark dark fruit? I mean if you know 2 out of the three you don't really need a fruit right?
"Blackbeard's ability allows him to completely cancel a user's DF powers while haki only allows them to get hit"
But then I realized that the admirals were able to cancel Whitebeard's powers during the war.
So I suppose the darkness fruit just makes it much easier to get rid of powers? Blackbeard probably wouldn't be able to cancel WB's quake fruit using haki alone.
Yami Yami no Mi isn't the same. First of all, it technically makes him a Logia. So, even if he is in extreme pain, he can recover from what hits him. Then, we have his powers of attraction and consumption. He sucks you in, spits you out, and negates your DF powers at the same time. Kind of like that piercings guy from Naruto. Regarding the points where BB actually stops DF users from doing their thing, it seems a bit different from CoA. When Luffy was hit by the Boa sisters on Amazon Lily, for example, he was still made out of rubber. He could just feel the pain of the hits. However, when Ace was sucked in by BB, he couldn't turn into fire, not even for a while afterwards.
But on the topic of Blackbeard and Haki, he most likely won't develop CoA but maybe CoO so its easier for him to suck his enemies in
The Undeniable dream is the least expected dream
It's pretty obvious that BB doesn't have haki, otherwise he wouldn't be looking all his life for the Yomi Yomi no mi just to cancel the Akuma no Mi users! just doesn't make any sense at all.
Last edited by brebaz; April 16th, 2012 at 07:08 AM.
Two things I want to discuss:
What is HAKI? We talk a lot about how it works, what it affects, and how it is different from sea stone and the Yami nullification ability. However, there is almost nothing about what it is, and what it means.
Training. Several arguments claim that DF training results in better use of its abilities. I totally agree. However, nobody discusses how DF users go about doing that.
I think it's important to discuss these two points to properly understand Haki.
Let's start with what Haki is. To put it simply, it's ambition. I would say that there are 2 traits of ambition: quality and strength. The quality of the ambition would describe what kind of ambition it is. The strength of the ambition would describe the intensity of it, and what it can do.
For example, Luffy's ambition is to become the Pirate King, and to him, that's means having the greatest amount and the most kinds of freedoms in the world. That would give his main quality that of a conqueror, because of it describes a very broad and dominating achievement. He always had it, but only recently has he developed the ability to use it. In other words, his ambition had to develop enough strength to use it. And that is the strength of Luffy's ambition, not his body; thus, the strength of ambition is directly related to spiritual strength and resolve. Zoro's ambition is to master his swords, and become an unbeatable swordsman. That ambition is focused on mastery of an art; thus, the quality is that of armament. Before the time skip, the strength of his ambition wasn't great enough to manifest the abilities of CoA Haki as we know it. Perhaps he is strong enough now.
I'm currently tired, so I'll have to continue discussing later.
As for how Haki WORKS, I'm not sure we'll ever know. It clearly doesn't exist in our world, but it has no tangible "catalyst" within the OP world. DF powers are fantastical, but there's a reason for them: the fruit. Unfortunately, Haki doesn't have an analogous source. It's just something that manifests from the mind, and is rarely visible within the panels. It's more like "chi" or "chakra" or "aura", which is kind of dumb. But hey, maybe we will get an explanation someday.
Ok, got a little rest, so I'll continue.
I think an ambition that involves exploration and finding things would have the quality of observation, so Nami and Robin would have that quality. However, I don't think the girls in the crew have CoO yet even after the time skip, because they haven't gone through the extremely difficult process to get Haki. Sanji also has an ambition of exploration: finding All Blue; that gives him the quality of observation. He was inexperienced before the time skip, but perhaps he has trained enough to use some CoO.
Now some characters have natural CoO Haki, like Aisa and Otohime, without any training or life experience. That's kind of odd since that pretty much breaks the "rules" of my descriptions. But remember that Haki is a kind of Ki, and Ki can be inherited (common Asian belief). Thus, I think that's how Aisa and Otohime got CoO Haki.
What about characters like Coby who have an ambition for mastery (become an admiral) but have CoO Haki? I think that can be explained by what Coby does a lot of: observing, learning, and studying. During the war, the intense terror Coby experienced increased his observation capabilities until he unleashed his CoO uncontrollably.
What about guys who seem to be really ambitious but don't have Haki, like Blackbeard? Well, now that's what I call half-assed ambition. They want some lofty goal, but are too lazy and afraid to put resolve to their goals. Blackbeard wants to conquer the world, has a really strong body and unbelievable power, but chooses cheap and easy tactics, such as waiting for Whitebeard to become really weak to capture his power. He has an ambition of conquering the world, but has very little intensity in his conviction. Apparently, most pirates and soldiers, and people in general, are like this.
Now, talking about Devil Fruit training and mastery, I think Logia users have to expose themselves to danger repeatedly to have reflexive response to attacks. It's just like actual soldier training in real life, and is especially true for special forces. The exception is Enel, because his DF enhances his CoO so that he doesn't even need to train to have invincibility. However, if you look at most other Logia users, they can block and dodge hits really well, so they have good reflexes.
Ah, forgot to relate the DF to Haki. Haki attacks use spiritual force, so Haki attacks attack the opponent's spirit, and they feel the pain, and the body can react with some internal bleeding. It does not stop DF powers. When a Logia is hit with a weakness, their powers stop working, so the DF's can't protect the physical body, and that's why real injuries appear then. The Yami Yami fruit has the power to stop any DF power with contact and perhaps just with the dark matter.
Last edited by igetownd; April 17th, 2012 at 08:49 PM.
Last edited by BlazingBonds; April 17th, 2012 at 09:31 PM.
What I am trying to say is, yes, Garp has haki, he is a Vice Admiral, he has haki.
But Haki is not needed to hit Marco. He is a Zoan with a physical body. He can heal after certain hits, but having Haki will not dictate if you can actually touch him.
If anyone else has a better way to explain this point please jump in.
@ Just Gabe - The lasers that burned up his body did hurt him and he just regenerated.
This is from the SBS. Official English version.
... To be more specific about Marco's powers, since he is a Zoan his body is still physical. But the Blue Flame of Revival is a power of the phoenix to heal his wounds, nullifying most attacks. (But the healing has limitations.) It means the fire is more for revival. But unlike real fire, it doesn't spread or give off heat of any sort, making it completely different from Ace's flames.
Marco can not just let attacks pass through him. They hurt him and then he heals. Get it straight.
Last edited by RomanceDawn; April 17th, 2012 at 09:55 PM.
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