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Thread: General 'Haki' Discussion

  1. #3821
    3rd Degree Black Beard RomanceDawn's Avatar
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    Default Re: General 'Haki' Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrystalShip View Post
    I don't think you really read my statement or you aren't aware of what the fist of love is.

    Though not part of my point, that pick is a wack example of Garp using Haki. Anyone without Haki could hit Marco, it's his regeneration that is giving you the false assumption that Haki is needed to hurt him.
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  2. #3822
    Thrift shoppin' Drazgoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: General 'Haki' Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by RomanceDawn View Post
    I don't think you really read my statement or you aren't aware of what the fist of love is.

    Though not part of my point, that pick is a wack example of Garp using Haki. Anyone without Haki could hit Marco, it's his regeneration that is giving you the false assumption that Haki is needed to hurt him.
    haki would certainly hurt more, but his DF is unique so unless he's in blackbeard's grasp or cuffed he'll regenerate indefinitely as far as we've seen.
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  3. #3823
    3rd Degree Black Beard RomanceDawn's Avatar
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    Default Re: General 'Haki' Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Drazgoon View Post
    haki would certainly hurt more, but his DF is unique so unless he's in blackbeard's grasp or cuffed he'll regenerate indefinitely as far as we've seen.
    Not quite, in SBS Oda clearly states there are limits to his regeneration when explaining the difference between his fire and Ace's. He can't regenerate indefinitely. Volume 58 pg 166.
    Last edited by RomanceDawn; April 15th, 2012 at 12:53 PM.
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  4. #3824
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    Default Re: General 'Haki' Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by RomanceDawn View Post
    Though not part of my point, that pick is a wack example of Garp using Haki. Anyone without Haki could hit Marco, it's his regeneration that is giving you the false assumption that Haki is needed to hurt him.
    I'm pretty certain that Garp has Haki. And I'm EXTREMELY skeptical about Haki users.

  5. #3825
    Discovered Stowaway RPG KING's Avatar
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    Default Re: General 'Haki' Discussion

    I have a question. If BB can use haki then does he need to use his dark dark fruit? I mean if you know 2 out of the three you don't really need a fruit right?


  6. #3826
    Discovered Stowaway fedcom's Avatar
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    Default Re: General 'Haki' Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by RPG KING View Post
    I have a question. If BB can use haki then does he need to use his dark dark fruit? I mean if you know 2 out of the three you don't really need a fruit right?
    I was going to reply;
    "Blackbeard's ability allows him to completely cancel a user's DF powers while haki only allows them to get hit"
    But then I realized that the admirals were able to cancel Whitebeard's powers during the war.
    So I suppose the darkness fruit just makes it much easier to get rid of powers? Blackbeard probably wouldn't be able to cancel WB's quake fruit using haki alone.

  7. #3827
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    Default Re: General 'Haki' Discussion

    Yami Yami no Mi isn't the same. First of all, it technically makes him a Logia. So, even if he is in extreme pain, he can recover from what hits him. Then, we have his powers of attraction and consumption. He sucks you in, spits you out, and negates your DF powers at the same time. Kind of like that piercings guy from Naruto. Regarding the points where BB actually stops DF users from doing their thing, it seems a bit different from CoA. When Luffy was hit by the Boa sisters on Amazon Lily, for example, he was still made out of rubber. He could just feel the pain of the hits. However, when Ace was sucked in by BB, he couldn't turn into fire, not even for a while afterwards.

  8. #3828

    Default Re: General 'Haki' Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by fedcom View Post
    I was going to reply;
    "Blackbeard's ability allows him to completely cancel a user's DF powers while haki only allows them to get hit"
    But then I realized that the admirals were able to cancel Whitebeard's powers during the war.
    So I suppose the darkness fruit just makes it much easier to get rid of powers? Blackbeard probably wouldn't be able to cancel WB's quake fruit using haki alone.
    They didn't really cancel his fruit, just deflect the shock wave (if you referring to when they stood in front of execution platform and then shock wave destroyed Marineford housing area.)

    But on the topic of Blackbeard and Haki, he most likely won't develop CoA but maybe CoO so its easier for him to suck his enemies in
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  9. #3829
    Kekkan no aru ningen brebaz's Avatar
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    Default Re: General 'Haki' Discussion

    It's pretty obvious that BB doesn't have haki, otherwise he wouldn't be looking all his life for the Yomi Yomi no mi just to cancel the Akuma no Mi users! just doesn't make any sense at all.
    Last edited by brebaz; April 16th, 2012 at 07:08 AM.

  10. #3830

    Default Re: General 'Haki' Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by brebaz View Post
    It's pretty obvious that BB doesn't have haki, otherwise he wouldn't be looking all his life for the Yami Yami no mi just to cancel the Akuma no Mi users! just doesn't make any sense at all.
    I do think you are right. The manner in which he always talked to df users, made it seem like he was resentful of them being strong because of dfs. I think it was more obvious during his fight with Ace, that indicated he did not have haki. Also, his personality itself is a very big indication that he does not know how to use haki. He believes in fate a lot, he even says that him obtaining the yomi fruit was because of fate. All, these things make it look like he really can't use haki, as haki is 'willpower' which he does not really show.

  11. #3831
    Kekkan no aru ningen brebaz's Avatar
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    Default Re: General 'Haki' Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace of Spades View Post
    I do think you are right. The manner in which he always talked to df users, made it seem like he was resentful of them being strong because of dfs. I think it was more obvious during his fight with Ace, that indicated he did not have haki. Also, his personality itself is a very big indication that he does not know how to use haki. He believes in fate a lot, he even says that him obtaining the yomi fruit was because of fate. All, these things make it look like he really can't use haki, as haki is 'willpower' which he does not really show.
    The way he speaks about devil fruit users says it all i guess. Also his Yomi no mi fruit is the reason he can take the Fruit from the original user. But, Haki is the only thing that BB can never have i guess.

  12. #3832

    Default Re: General 'Haki' Discussion

    Two things I want to discuss:

    First:
    What is HAKI? We talk a lot about how it works, what it affects, and how it is different from sea stone and the Yami nullification ability. However, there is almost nothing about what it is, and what it means.

    Second:
    Training. Several arguments claim that DF training results in better use of its abilities. I totally agree. However, nobody discusses how DF users go about doing that.

    I think it's important to discuss these two points to properly understand Haki.

    Let's start with what Haki is. To put it simply, it's ambition. I would say that there are 2 traits of ambition: quality and strength. The quality of the ambition would describe what kind of ambition it is. The strength of the ambition would describe the intensity of it, and what it can do.

    For example, Luffy's ambition is to become the Pirate King, and to him, that's means having the greatest amount and the most kinds of freedoms in the world. That would give his main quality that of a conqueror, because of it describes a very broad and dominating achievement. He always had it, but only recently has he developed the ability to use it. In other words, his ambition had to develop enough strength to use it. And that is the strength of Luffy's ambition, not his body; thus, the strength of ambition is directly related to spiritual strength and resolve. Zoro's ambition is to master his swords, and become an unbeatable swordsman. That ambition is focused on mastery of an art; thus, the quality is that of armament. Before the time skip, the strength of his ambition wasn't great enough to manifest the abilities of CoA Haki as we know it. Perhaps he is strong enough now.

    I'm currently tired, so I'll have to continue discussing later.

  13. #3833
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    Default Re: General 'Haki' Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by igetownd View Post
    Zoro's ambition is to master his swords, and become an unbeatable swordsman. That ambition is focused on mastery of an art; thus, the quality is that of armament. Before the time skip, the strength of his ambition wasn't great enough to manifest the abilities of CoA Haki as we know it. Perhaps he is strong enough now.
    I don't think he's ever exhibited CoA, though.

    As for how Haki WORKS, I'm not sure we'll ever know. It clearly doesn't exist in our world, but it has no tangible "catalyst" within the OP world. DF powers are fantastical, but there's a reason for them: the fruit. Unfortunately, Haki doesn't have an analogous source. It's just something that manifests from the mind, and is rarely visible within the panels. It's more like "chi" or "chakra" or "aura", which is kind of dumb. But hey, maybe we will get an explanation someday.

  14. #3834

    Default Re: General 'Haki' Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrystalShip View Post
    I don't think he's ever exhibited CoA, though.

    As for how Haki WORKS, I'm not sure we'll ever know. It clearly doesn't exist in our world, but it has no tangible "catalyst" within the OP world. DF powers are fantastical, but there's a reason for them: the fruit. Unfortunately, Haki doesn't have an analogous source. It's just something that manifests from the mind, and is rarely visible within the panels. It's more like "chi" or "chakra" or "aura", which is kind of dumb. But hey, maybe we will get an explanation someday.
    Did you read the 3rd sentence? "his ambition wasn't great enough to manifest the abilities of CoA Haki as we know it."
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  15. #3835

    Default Re: General 'Haki' Discussion

    Ok, got a little rest, so I'll continue.

    I think an ambition that involves exploration and finding things would have the quality of observation, so Nami and Robin would have that quality. However, I don't think the girls in the crew have CoO yet even after the time skip, because they haven't gone through the extremely difficult process to get Haki. Sanji also has an ambition of exploration: finding All Blue; that gives him the quality of observation. He was inexperienced before the time skip, but perhaps he has trained enough to use some CoO.

    Now some characters have natural CoO Haki, like Aisa and Otohime, without any training or life experience. That's kind of odd since that pretty much breaks the "rules" of my descriptions. But remember that Haki is a kind of Ki, and Ki can be inherited (common Asian belief). Thus, I think that's how Aisa and Otohime got CoO Haki.

    What about characters like Coby who have an ambition for mastery (become an admiral) but have CoO Haki? I think that can be explained by what Coby does a lot of: observing, learning, and studying. During the war, the intense terror Coby experienced increased his observation capabilities until he unleashed his CoO uncontrollably.

    What about guys who seem to be really ambitious but don't have Haki, like Blackbeard? Well, now that's what I call half-assed ambition. They want some lofty goal, but are too lazy and afraid to put resolve to their goals. Blackbeard wants to conquer the world, has a really strong body and unbelievable power, but chooses cheap and easy tactics, such as waiting for Whitebeard to become really weak to capture his power. He has an ambition of conquering the world, but has very little intensity in his conviction. Apparently, most pirates and soldiers, and people in general, are like this.

    Now, talking about Devil Fruit training and mastery, I think Logia users have to expose themselves to danger repeatedly to have reflexive response to attacks. It's just like actual soldier training in real life, and is especially true for special forces. The exception is Enel, because his DF enhances his CoO so that he doesn't even need to train to have invincibility. However, if you look at most other Logia users, they can block and dodge hits really well, so they have good reflexes.

    Ah, forgot to relate the DF to Haki. Haki attacks use spiritual force, so Haki attacks attack the opponent's spirit, and they feel the pain, and the body can react with some internal bleeding. It does not stop DF powers. When a Logia is hit with a weakness, their powers stop working, so the DF's can't protect the physical body, and that's why real injuries appear then. The Yami Yami fruit has the power to stop any DF power with contact and perhaps just with the dark matter.
    Last edited by igetownd; April 17th, 2012 at 08:49 PM.

  16. #3836

    Default Re: General 'Haki' Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by RomanceDawn View Post
    I don't think you really read my statement or you aren't aware of what the fist of love is.

    Though not part of my point, that pick is a wack example of Garp using Haki. Anyone without Haki could hit Marco, it's his regeneration that is giving you the false assumption that Haki is needed to hurt him.
    When he's on phoenix form, haki IS needed to hurt him, that was obvious the moment Kizaru's light rays passed through him, so, Garp used haki in that panel. C'mon people.
    Last edited by Just_Gabe; April 17th, 2012 at 09:17 PM. Reason: typo
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinscher View Post
    naruto was WAY MORE KICKASS after the timeskip

    i mean to show his badassness, him and sakura managed to get the bell from kakashi. beating pacifista's is so lame compared to that awesomeness

  17. #3837

    Default Re: General 'Haki' Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Just_Gabe View Post
    When he's on phoenix form, haki IS needed to hurt him, that was obvious the moment Kizaru's light rays passed through him, so, Garp used haki in that panel. C'mon people.
    Except that Kizaru's light rays didn't pass through him, they hit him but he regenerates right after.

    His phoenix mode isn't just flames, it's a tangible bird covered in flames. C'mon man.
    Last edited by BlazingBonds; April 17th, 2012 at 09:31 PM.

  18. #3838
    3rd Degree Black Beard RomanceDawn's Avatar
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    Default Re: General 'Haki' Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrystalShip View Post
    I'm pretty certain that Garp has Haki. And I'm EXTREMELY skeptical about Haki users.
    CrystalShip I am not being rude, but is English your first language? I feel like there is a miscommunication.

    What I am trying to say is, yes, Garp has haki, he is a Vice Admiral, he has haki.

    But Haki is not needed to hit Marco. He is a Zoan with a physical body. He can heal after certain hits, but having Haki will not dictate if you can actually touch him.

    If anyone else has a better way to explain this point please jump in.

    @ Just Gabe - The lasers that burned up his body did hurt him and he just regenerated.

    This is from the SBS. Official English version.

    ... To be more specific about Marco's powers, since he is a Zoan his body is still physical. But the Blue Flame of Revival is a power of the phoenix to heal his wounds, nullifying most attacks. (But the healing has limitations.) It means the fire is more for revival. But unlike real fire, it doesn't spread or give off heat of any sort, making it completely different from Ace's flames.

    Marco can not just let attacks pass through him. They hurt him and then he heals. Get it straight.
    Last edited by RomanceDawn; April 17th, 2012 at 09:55 PM.
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  19. #3839

    Default Re: General 'Haki' Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by RomanceDawn View Post
    CrystalShip I am not being rude, but is English your first language? I feel like there is a miscommunication.

    What I am trying to say is, yes, Garp has haki, he is a Vice Admiral, he has haki.

    But Haki is not needed to hit Marco. He is a Zoan with a physical body. He can heal after certain hits, but having Haki will not dictate if you can actually touch him.

    If anyone else has a better way to explain this point please jump in.
    I did just above, he's a tangible bird that's covered in flame feathers.

    The flames heal his body.

  20. #3840
    3rd Degree Black Beard RomanceDawn's Avatar
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    Default Re: General 'Haki' Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by BlazingBonds View Post
    I did just above, he's a tangible bird that's covered in flame feathers.

    The flames heal his body.
    Thank you.

    I'll post this again, cause I know people will just skip the last page.
    This is from the SBS. Official English version.

    SBS VOLUME 58
    ... To be more specific about Marco's powers, since he is a Zoan his body is still physical. But the Blue Flame of Revival is a power of the phoenix to heal his wounds, nullifying most attacks. (But the healing has limitations.) It means the fire is more for revival. But unlike real fire, it doesn't spread or give off heat of any sort, making it completely different from Ace's flames.

    Marco can not just let attacks pass through him and just be completely unharmed. They hurt him and then he heals. Get it straight.
    Last edited by RomanceDawn; April 17th, 2012 at 10:31 PM.
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