General 'Haki' Discussion

[MagneticMonkey]

what if haki is a plot hole and Ocda never writes about it again.

too much hints too much stuff in the chapters before :) But i'm also sure that we are all living in the matrix now and that one piece is just keeping us from freeing ourself of this slavery. (i need my pills NOW)

[Zik]

what if haki is a plot hole and Ocda never writes about it again.

Sorta how rokushiki was just a power up to make the CP9 interesting. Hell Oda made it so that it would take years to learn how to do it yet we see Coby and Helemppo using it soon after lol.

[brennen.exe]

Hell Oda made it so that it would take years to learn how to do it yet we see Coby and Helemppo using it soon after lol.

Not quite so. Luffy learns soru from watching, and masters it before/while fighting Blueno. Nero was the newest CP9 member and only knew 4 of the forms. It is quite poissible that during Coby's intense training he only learned soru so far. The basics of the six forms.

[blym]

was re-reading some op chapters, happened across this.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/508/14/

did a search and found nothing. so urouge was using haki to buff himself up?

[Zik]

Where all this Haki Argument comes from?

From the Lazarus pit of retardedness....

[MagneticMonkey]

Where all this Haki Argument comes from?

They are all speculations.

[estarapapax]

DFs can be explained as rational things my post above gives a "scientific explanation" to the DFs powers and haki. Sea kings are just huge monsters. On earth there where also dinosaurs and nobody states that it has been irational. As for the talking squeleton it is due to his DF power. I must admit that brook is a complicate case. His whole body died. So the DF power has to take his mind state (as the brain is a complicated connection of nerves and if you can save all these connections....) just beforre the death then it would saved the whole personality of brook. Maybe we can talk here about electric connections/wires (when it comes to the brain). The Df must have created a backup of these state (mentioned as the soul) and let it then come back to his body after his death. As this backup is just electricity it had the ability to float through the air (in the fog
which is basicaly evaporated water). This backup of his brain came then to a rotten body and somehow reintegrated it. This is where i allow some irational stuff cause i don't have any good idea at how he manage to move his squeleton but hey it's a shonen :) Maybe that he gained the ability to move the cells and attract them with a strong magnetic field. I dunno.
The fact that chopper gained the ability to talk is also due to his DF power which modified his brain so that he now has the requirements to learn and to think and innovate on his own.
A lot of things can be explained with common science. Anyway i also aware that this is a fiction so ...

I'm impressed you managed to come up with a science-sounding explanation for this one. Actually, this is one of the things I can't come up with a scientific explanation. But there are still questions that needs to be addressed if you'll try to explain that phenomenon this way. Why does Brooke called that fog as soul? In your interpretation, you seem to say that there is a scientific explanation for souls. And I believe there have been some incidents in OP which involved souls, like that of Nami's foster mother who pushed Nami away of her house. And I wonder why that soul/fog came from the skies, beyond the clouds (that's what I watched in the anime. Tell me if it's different from the manga). It is suggesting the very common notion of souls: that they reside in the heavens which IMO can't be explained scientifically.

[Fiasco.]

I've been reading back some of One piece old chapter (cuz it's fun) and i come across the chapter where zoro were fighting Daz Bones in Alabasta, you know the part where he were almost crush by a falling rocks, but he didn't cuz he can hear them breathing, so he know where it will fall.He said that he can hear the metal breathing http://img39.onemanga.com/mangas/000...0000195/18.jpg

And Also GanFall or Ganfour said that basicly, mantra is an ability to hear voices.So, when in sky Island I thought what zoro had was somekind of mantra, but recently this haki thing became very popular.

So this is my theory:

There are a few type or level or maybe a few ways of using haki, and mantra and zoro's breathing technique is on of them.
So the way I see it we have seen 3 ways of using haki(so far).
1.Use it to hear voices to predict movement (Used by Enel and sky priest and I think zoro did to)
2.Use it as an invisible atacking wave to knock down people(Used by Shanks, Rayleigh and Luffy at a lower level)
3.Imbued it with something(weapon) to make it stronger or so it can cut through anything(Used by amazonian and I think zoro did to, when he cut daz bones I think he is chanelling his spirit to his sword or in other word IMBUEing his HAKI to his sword, and maybe rayleigh to when he cut kizaru cheek with his sword)
http://img39.onemanga.com/mangas/000...0075392/08.jpg
So the first SH to reach the haki level is actually zoro.

So that's it guys, what do you think

I found this also:

Spoiler:

Ray says Roger could hear all things, and I would expect the strongest man from the old era to master Haki in all it's forms. This theory about Haki actually seems possible.

[Zik]

Ray says Roger could hear all things, and I would expect the strongest man from the old era to master Haki in all it's forms. This theory about Haki actually seems possible.

Weird how you would think what Ray was talking about regarding Roger was haki and not a DF.

You say haki in all it's forms but the the one we know of so far isn't even explained. Haki has still shown to be something you would use in a fight, I don't see how it translates to hearing all things.......

[Fiasco.]

Weird how you would think what Ray was talking about regarding Roger was haki and not a DF.

You say haki in all it's forms but the the one we know of so far isn't even explained. Haki has still shown to be something you would use in a fight, I don't see how it translates to hearing all things.......

Alright, Ray said Roger could hear all things.
Zoro expressed the ability the hear the breathing of things.
Enel and Gandfall show the ability to hear things thus predict movements.
So it's not weird in the least bit how I decided that these three could all be connected, and it would be weird if they were DF abilities.
So it is a theory for a reason, not proven, it is a theory that Haki could have different forms, all of which Roger could have mastered and all types used in battle.

[brennen.exe]

Link: Did a search and found nothing. So Urouge was using Haki to buff himself up?

I don't think so. "Ambition" in that scan is probably a mistranslated word, since the other translations made no mention of it. In particular Stephen's Trans makes no mention of it. Would have to ask someone more knowledgeable with Japanese to check the original raw though. Outside of that, I made some speculation back in the spoiler thread of that chapter. Here are my two posts: Post #1 / Post #2.

[Zik]

Alright, Ray said Roger could hear all things.
Zoro expressed the ability the hear the breathing of things.
Enel and Gandfall show the ability to hear things thus predict movements.
So it's not weird in the least bit how I decided that these three could all be connected, and it would be weird if they were DF abilities.
So it is a theory for a reason, not proven, it is a theory that Haki could have different forms, all of which Roger could have mastered and all types used in battle.

So you support one speculation with another?

When was it stated that what Zoro did was haki? it's just as unlikely as haki being the reason Roger was able to hear all things.

Ganfall never showed an ability to hear things or predict movements. Enel has mantra which is NOT haki. That's just building a theory on speculation on top of more speculation.

Mantra is an ability, I would say you are born with(I could be wrong but it's more likely than it being haki since if it was how come a little girl learned it but Wiper who is a fighter didn't?)
Haki is a technique/ability that you can learn and develop, so far all it has shown is that you can imbue it in to weapons to make them stronger and make ppl with a weak determination/ambition/will faint.

What Zoro did seems more like a special event/situation a swordsman would go through when ascending to another level of skill, not something all people would go through.

But w/e I'll go with Roger having an unnamed Df until proven wrong.

[Fiasco.]

But w/e I'll go with roger having an unnamed Df until proven wrong.

And i'll go with Haki, mantra might not be connected but there is a possibility the others are. Also this isn't really the thread for this but I really hope Roger didn't have a DF.

[brennen.exe]

What Zoro did seems more like a special event/situation a swordsman would go through when ascending to another level of skill, not something all people would go through.

Not that my opinion matters much, but Oda has been intentionally (possibly) giving hints about "Haki" since the beginning of the manga ~~ very subtle hints and spread apart, mind ~~ for a reason. If you think about it, why wait until 500 chapters into the manga to really begin to reveal the nature behind this "Ambition" thing? Personally, I think Oda has a lot more to it than just some random warrior's skill for instant KO's. Again, personally, I think it is easy to link all of those unknown's together into one lump category: Haki. Not saying it will be or should be, but if you think about the nature of the few things we know:

• Shanks made a Sea King cower away and retreat. Seemingly low level Haki or something. Maybe.
• Zoro makes someone foam at the mouth after holding their head in his hand. Why? We don't know. Kinda weird. Just rolled over it as something that just happened.
• Zoro sees the "breath" of everything, allowing him somehow to cut what cannot be cut. Make sense? Not really, iron cutting iron? It is a manga though, so we go with it by assuming that it is some swordsman ability or something.
• Shanks walks on board Whitebeard's ship with his "Ambition" ablaze. Tons of low-level crew members knock out with foam in their mouth for no visible reason as far as we can tell, though we know it was Shanks' doing. Wait....what? Haven't we seen this before??
• Luffy stares down Motobaru telling him they don't need to fight. Motobaru begins to run away and then knocks out foaming from the mouth. Ehh!!? A trend?? Still makes no sense, right?
• Rayleigh is introduced: He does something and a ton of people knock out with foam at their mouth. Ok...seriously? What's going on??
• Hachi: "I think it's called Haki" -- Readers: What's that!?!!? Haven't we seen that same effect somewhere??
• Rayleigh mentions that Roger can hear the voice of all things. Hmm, kinda sounds fishy....but haven't I hear something similar to this??
• Rayleigh stops Kizaru's kick somehow....wait, isn't that impossible? Some argue if the Logia user is unaware then you can -- but that has been proven to be more or less incorrect.
• Rayleigh cuts a Logia with his regular sword. Wait, this makes no sense!? He is doing the impossible!!
• Margaret shoots an arrow at Luffy that crushes stone. Luffy comments. Margaret responds by telling him it was imbued with "Ambition" (Haki). Wait a minute, you are telling me "Ambition" can be imbued into an item to do something it normally cannot? Like an arrow breaking a boulder? Sounds fishy....yet familiar.

Alright. So take my little notes in there as helpful curiosity to link everything together into a common thread. You can easily see how all of these "unknowns" have something in common. Breath of all things. Voice of all things. Cut what cannot be cut after seeing the breath of all things. Making people pass out with foam at their mouth. Cut what cannot be cut again. Adding extreme power to an otherwise weak projectile. Etc. It can all be summed up by one 'invented device' that Oda has literally used the entire manga up until now to hint at: "Ambition". Of course, this could all just be speculation that gets trashed for something different -- but it at least has viable sense and logic, right?

[Fiasco.]

Not that my opinion matters much, but Oda has been intentionally (possibly) giving hints about "Haki" since the beginning of the manga ~~ very subtle hints and spread apart, mind ~~ for a reason. If you think about it, why wait until 500 chapters into the manga to really begin to reveal the nature behind this "Ambition" thing? Personally, I think Oda has a lot more to it than just some random warrior's skill for instant KO's. Again, personally, I think it is easy to link all of those unknown's together into one lump category: Haki. Not saying it will be or should be, but if you think about the nature of the few things we know:

• Shanks made a Sea King cower away and retreat. Seemingly low level Haki or something. Maybe.
• Zoro makes someone foam at the mouth after holding their head in his hand. Why? We don't know. Kinda weird. Just rolled over it as something that just happened.
• Zoro sees the "breath" of everything, allowing him somehow to cut what cannot be cut. Make sense? Not really, iron cutting iron? It is a manga though, so we go with it by assuming that it is some swordsman ability or something.
• Shanks walks on board Whitebeard's ship with his "Ambition" ablaze. Tons of low-level crew members knock out with foam in their mouth for no visible reason as far as we can tell, though we know it was Shanks' doing. Wait....what? Haven't we seen this before??
• Luffy stares down Motobaru telling him they don't need to fight. Motobaru begins to run away and then knocks out foaming from the mouth. Ehh!!? A trend?? Still makes no sense, right?
• Rayleigh is introduced: He does something and a ton of people knock out with foam at their mouth. Ok...seriously? What's going on??
• Hachi: "I think it's called Haki" -- Readers: What's that!?!!? Haven't we seen that same effect somewhere??
• Rayleigh mentions that Roger can hear the voice of all things. Hmm, kinda sounds fishy....but haven't I hear something similar to this??
• Rayleigh stops Kizaru's kick somehow....wait, isn't that impossible? Some argue if the Logia user is unaware then you can -- but that has been proven to be more or less incorrect.
• Rayleigh cuts a Logia with his regular sword. Wait, this makes no sense!? He is doing the impossible!!
• Margaret shoots an arrow at Luffy that crushes stone. Luffy comments. Margaret responds by telling him it was imbued with "Ambition" (Haki). Wait a minute, you are telling me "Ambition" can be imbued into an item to do something it normally cannot? Like an arrow breaking a boulder? Sounds fishy....yet familiar.

Alright. So take my little notes in there as helpful curiosity to link everything together into a common thread. You can easily see how all of these "unknowns" have something in common. Breath of all things. Voice of all things. Cut what cannot be cut after seeing the breath of all things. Making people pass out with foam at their mouth. Cut what cannot be cut again. Adding extreme power to an otherwise weak projectile. Etc. It can all be summed up by one 'invented device' that Oda has literally used the entire manga up until now to hint at: "Ambition". Of course, this could all just be speculation that gets trashed for something different -- but it at least has viable sense and logic, right?

...Yeah, exactly. I think.

[Besserwisser]

I found this also:

Spoiler:

http://img39.onemanga.com/mangas/000...0066782/07.jpg

Ray says Roger could hear all things, and I would expect the strongest man from the old era to master Haki in all it's forms. This theory about Haki actually seems possible.

I think it is the same ability like Zorro used against Mister 1 because he could hear the breath from all things, too.I don’t count the breath technique to Haki.

[Zik]

Not that my opinion matters much, but Oda has been intentionally (possibly) giving hints about "Haki" since the beginning of the manga ~~ very subtle hints and spread apart, mind ~~ for a reason. If you think about it, why wait until 500 chapters into the manga to really begin to reveal the nature behind this "Ambition" thing? Personally, I think Oda has a lot more to it than just some random warrior's skill for instant KO's. Again, personally, I think it is easy to link all of those unknown's together into one lump category: Haki. Not saying it will be or should be, but if you think about the nature of the few things we know:

I too noticed Oda giving subtle hints since the begining of the manga but I just don't think it is as many as you think.

Zoro makes someone foam at the mouth after holding their head in his hand. Why? We don't know. Kinda weird. Just rolled over it as something that just happened.

I always saw this as him squeezing her head with his hand until she passed out. We've already seen haki doesn't need to be used by touching the person. Zoro's strength is what did that imo. As for the seeing the breath of steel in order to cut it or w/e you quoted what I thought it was.

Rayleigh mentions that Roger can hear the voice of all things. Hmm, kinda sounds fishy....but haven't I hear something similar to this??

I already said it seems it is more likely that it was a DF. We already know Ray can use haki so how come Roger is the only one who has a haki that can allow him to hear all things?

Rayleigh stops Kizaru's kick somehow....wait, isn't that impossible? Some argue if the Logia user is unaware then you can -- but that has been proven to be more or less incorrect.

Rayleigh cuts a Logia with his regular sword. Wait, this makes no sense!? He is doing the impossible!!

It's still not determined that haki allowed Ray to do that. Somebody else said this in another thread but it is possible that Ray figured out the weakness for light and was using it in his fight against Kizaru and we didn't know. I will admit that Oda has been heavy on the haki since so that could be what explains it in that situation.

For the other ones I didn't quote I agree with.....

[brennen.exe]

I always saw this as him squeezing her head with his hand until she passed out. We've already seen haki doesn't need to be used by touching the person. Zoro's strength is what did that imo.

Exactly, but since then we have seen Luffy do it unintentionally, Rayleigh do it, and Shanks do it -- all with the same exact effect, and all without much explanation really. That's why I am suggesting there might have been a connection to Zoro's unintentional use. It would definitely make more sense then her being so scared of his strength that she passed out and foamed at the mouth -- and strangely coincidental -- and misleading for that matter.

I already said it seems it is more likely that it was a DF. We already know Ray can use haki so how come Roger is the only one who has a haki that can allow him to hear all things?

First, I see no reason to believe Roger had a Devil Fruit. Much less evidence than I have supplied that is for sure. Second, who is to say Haki doesn't have different levels of usage and / or understanding -- or for that matter, that Rayleigh and / or other members could not hear all things as well? At the least, I think it is more likely what Roger did was somewhat similar to what Zoro did against Mr. 1, which in return was somewhat similar to what Rayleigh did against Kizaru.

It's still not determined that haki allowed Ray to do that. Somebody else said this in another thread but it is possible that Ray figured out the weakness for light and was using it in his fight against Kizaru and we didn't know.

For the sake of arguing I will also comment on this. I understand it is not "set in stone" that what Rayleigh did was an example of "Haki", but the evidence for is greater than anything else. Another tiny bullet list:

• Rayleigh's only other fighting we had seen previous was Haki. In fact, he "debuted" the ability named. Meaning he used it enough for Hachi to at least know what it was by name.
• Margaret shows an arrow "imbued" with Haki that allows for what should not be possible. In the same manner, Rayleigh uses his foot and sword to do what should not be possible.

Now, I understand someone could argue two things about Rayleigh: [1] He used a sea stone sword and [2] he knew the weakness to Kizaru. In response to those however I say that if it were in fact a sea stone sword, then Kizaru should not have even been able to block or defend with his DF power -- so that is NULL. To the other, I would say that we would have seen a bigger shock come from Kizaru and Sentoumaru than just "Dang, this will be more difficult" -- while at the same time it would seem more likely that other people should have been able to find his weakness too. Also, why would Oda have hidden the secret to Kizaru's power when Rayleigh was theoretically exploiting it? Lastly though, it would just be too convenient that Rayleigh happened to know the secret to the Logia Admiral that showed up. Oh, sure, you could defend by saying he is a wanted pirate and should know these things, but it still seems too convenient to me when no one else (4+ Captains) could do a thing.

[Zik]

It would definately make more sense then her being so scared of his strength that she passed out and foamed at the mouth -- and strangely conicident -- and misleading for that matter.

How would that make more sense than her skull was being slowly crushed and she passed out?

First, I see no reason to believe Roger had a Devil Fruit. Much less evidence than I have supplied that is for sure. Second, who is to say Haki doesn't have different levels of usage and / or understanding -- or for that matter, that Rayleigh and / or other members could not hear all things as well? At the least, I think it is more likely what Roger did was somewhat similar to what Zoro did against Mr. 1, which in return was somewhat similar to what Rayleigh did against Kizaru.

Now you see that's your bias that Roger was more likely to be using haki. Since when does there need to be evidence to explain or to think it possible a person has a DF ability? Everybody assumed Boa's ability was a DF with no evidence than her power.

Rayleigh's only other fighting we had seen previous was Haki. In fact, he "debuted" the ability named. Meaning he used it enough for Hachi to at least know what it was by name.

That was not a fight, he made a bunch of nuisances pass out.

Margaret shows an arrow "imbued" with Haki that allows for what should not be possible. In the same manner, Rayleigh uses his foot and sword to do what should not be possible.

The arrow pierced through a rock. What Ray did was hit something that was supopose to be intangible. Margret never hinted that imbuing weapons with haki can make it attack elements as well.

[brennen.exe]

How would that make more sense than her skull was being slowly crushed and she passed out?

Well, that would be the only time in the entire story that someone has passed out just from seeing someone else's strength, especially someone who was supposed to be extremely strong. I will concede that it is a possibility, but like I said -- it would make more sense to simply link it to another ability that had been hinted at, than having the person knock out rather then just get crushed and tossed to the side. Oda intentionally had her foam at the mouth. Why?

Now you see that's your bias that Roger was more likely to be using haki. Since when does there need to be evidence to explain or to think it possible a person has a DF ability? Everybody assumed Boa's ability* was a DF with no evidence than her power.

*Let's keep in mind what thread we are in. I am not saying there needs to be evidence that a person has a DF ability, merely that you choose to believe he has a DF even though you have no basis, while you criticize everyone else's theories regarding Haki despite the fact that they have a basis for their theories. Does that make sense? I am not biased that Roger used Haki, I am merely using the coincidences and similarities in the series to suggest that it was Haki -- and that if so, "who is to say that there are not levels..."

That was not a fight, he made a bunch of nuisances pass out.

That is beside the point. It was a "demonstration" of Rayleigh's abilities then, if that makes it easier to swallow.

The arrow pierced through a rock. What Ray did was hit something that was suppose to be intangible. Margret never hinted that imbuing weapons with haki can make it attack elements as well.

Again, this is beside the point. The point was that Haki can influence items, and do more than just knock people out -- and that is confirmed. It is essentially the needle that broke the camels back so to speak. Due to that arrow and comment, we can make a decent basis for these theories. Well, sort of. Ugh, I am digressing. Do you get my point at least? There is enough to make these theories, and they are not as wild as you might think. Right?