General 'Haki' Discussion

[Zik]

Well, that would be the only time in the entire story that someone has passed out just from seeing someone else's strength, especially someone who was supposed to be extremely strong. I will concede that it is a possibility, but like I said -- it would make more sense to simply link it to another ability that had been hinted at, than having the person knock out rather then just get crushed and tossed to the side. Oda intentionally had her foam at the mouth. Why?

What do you mean seeing? Zoro wasn't just holding her head like you hold hands with a girl. He was applying pressure, thus the feeling that your head is being crushed. It's not a reach seeing as he was probably more than 10xs stronger than those BW agents.

That is beside the point. It was a "demonstration" of Rayleigh's abilities then, if that makes it easier to swallow.

No it's not your trying to connect his use of haki in that situation in his fight with Kizaru. I stand by the other possibilities of Ray being able to hit Kizaru like he knew the weakness to light and was using it or he possibly has a DF and that is what was negating Kizaru's intangibility.

Again, this is beside the point. The point was that Haki can influence items, and do more than just knock people out -- and that is confirmed. It is essentially the needle that broke the camels back so to speak. Due to that arrow and comment, we can make a decent basis for these theories. Well, sort of. Ugh, I am digressing. Do you get my point at least? There is enough to make these theories, and they are not as wild as you might think. Right?

I get your points but I just feel these connections and comparisons are incredibly weak and a reach. They seem less convincing after being questioned

[brennen.exe]

He was applying pressure, thus the feeling that your head is being crushed. It's not a reach seeing as he was probably more than 10xs stronger than those BW agents.

True, I didn't mean seeing with eyes necessarily. I meant "understanding" or "realizing" that he was so much stronger. And this is dodging the question: This would still be the only time this has ever happened in the series; Oda drew her foaming at the mouth for a reason. Why?

No it's not your trying to connect his use of haki in that situation in his fight with Kizaru. I stand by the other possibilities of Ray being able to hit Kizaru like he knew the weakness to light and was using it or he possibly has a DF and that is what was negating Kizaru's intangibility.

As you have every right to believe whichever you want. But what right do you have to criticize others' belief's or theories? Fact remains that this is merely my point of view, and a theory at that. What we were discussing from the beginning was based around your criticism's over others' theories.

And a note: That theory expects me to believe that Rayleigh was covered head to toe (sword included) with whatever it was that allows him to negate Kizaru's fruit -- convenient considering he should have been on his way to coat a ship. On top of this, Kizaru sure didn't seem very surprised that someone had figured that out, and Oda [for some reason] decided to let it remain a mystery. Why would he do that when he was already throwing tons of Haki hints around? Just to confuse us!? Lastly, I suggested during the Spoiler thread when Rayleigh first kicked Kizaru's leg that maybe Rayleigh coated himself with the coating resin, but I shot that down myself because it didn't seem very solid a concept. Who knows though? I still refer back to the hints that Oda has been dropping increasingly more and more though.

I get your points but I just feel these connections and comparisons are incredibly weak and a reach. They seem less convincing after being questioned

I am glad you see my points at the least. I like debating, but I get frustrated when the other person is just getting angry and ignores or doesn't understand what I am trying to say. I am curious as to what it is that looks or seems weak about these theories though? And what questions weakened that already weak view. I mean, compared to Roger having a Devil Fruit -- which has no basis whatsoever.

[Zik]

Oda drew her foaming at the mouth for a reason. Why?

You'd be surprised from what certain parts of the body can make you foam at the mouth when being squeezed/crushed. Plus she could've just been scared to death.

That theory expects me to believe that Rayleigh was covered head to toe (sword included) with whatever it was that allows him to negate Kizaru's fruit -- convenient considering he should have been on his way to coat a ship

Convenient that he showed up at all but w/e the weakness may be he wouldn't need to be covered in it, just his sword and I guess shoes. He dodged all of Kizaru's attacks at him or parried/blocked them. We didn't see how the fight ended so that's yet to be determined.

I mean, compared to Roger having a Devil Fruit -- which has no basis whatsoever.

But is more likely than haki since Ray said that only Roger was able to hear all things, if it was haki Ray would be able to do it too.

I am glad you see my points at the least. I like debating, but I get frustrated when the other person is just getting angry and ignores or doesn't understand what I am trying to say.

I never get angry on here or ignore a logical opinion. Even when disrespected(not saying you did) I'd still wouldn't get angry just respond accordingly but anyway I do see and understand what theory you were trying to formulate.

I am curious as to what it is that looks or seems weak about these theories though? And what questions weakened that already weak view.

I asked them earlier in this thread. I can't get with a theory that builds speculation on top of speculation. It's circular logic, your basically saying if this is A and that is A then it's possible this is a form of A and what we thought was B is really just another different enhanced form of A and what could be C is also possible of being A.

[Besserwisser]

You'd be surprised from what certain parts of the body can make you foam at the mouth when being squeezed/crushed. Plus she could've just been scared to death.

The one speech bubble that makes me to believe that Zoro used Haki is „what’s wrong? Where has all your strength gone?”. I think he know she was stronger before but becomes weaker suddenly and that Zoro put even his hand in his pocket. So in my opinion he used Haki and is wondering that she becomes weaker because he doesn’t know that he used a technique like that.

[brennen.exe]

You'd be surprised from what certain parts of the body can make you foam at the mouth when being squeezed/crushed. Plus she could've just been scared to death.

I suppose I would be at that, but I still choose to believe Oda drew it with a purpose in mind. I always had been curious as to what made that situation so different, and I feel like Haki might be able to explain it. Maybe not, but I would hope so. Either way, we understand eachother on this point -- so we can drop it.

Convenient that he showed up at all but w/e the weakness may be he wouldn't need to be covered in it, just his sword and I guess shoes. He dodged all of Kizaru's attacks at him or parried/blocked them. We didn't see how the fight ended so that's yet to be determined.

True indeed. I suppose he could have done whatever needed doing on his way there, but I still think with all the hints Oda was dropping it would only be misleading to toss that in there without saying "Aha! I know the weakness to Light!". But who knows, right? Oda. We will find out soon enough I suppose.

But is more likely than haki since Ray said that only Roger was able to hear all things, if it was haki Ray would be able to do it too.

I do not think so. What Ray said was: "But you realize Roger couldn't read those runes, don't you? We were pirates. We didn't have the brainpower of Dr. Clover and the Oharans...He just heard......the Voice of All Things. That's all..." This is not saying that only Roger was able to hear all things, and back to my original point, if it was Haki -- which I really do not know how I feel about that particular part being Haki -- who is to say that there aren't other levels that Ray doesn't know how to use. Or, perhaps Ray could hear it as well. We don't really know. But, I do not really wish to take this particular point any further as I am only arguing that it has sufficient rights to theory.

I can't get with a theory that builds speculation on top of speculation. It's circular logic, your basically saying if this is A and that is A then it's possible this is a form of A and what we thought was B is really just another different enhanced form of A and what could be C is also possible of being A.

While your example is confusing to follow, I understand your point. I was just curious because I thought you were referring to my posts. Either way, in my case it would be if B is correct, than theories A and C could be connected. Since more or less all of my examples were similar in nature to eachother.

I think we have more or less wrapped this one up though.

[Power]

Not to intrude between Brennen.exe's and Zik's argument but I'd like to repost something from the 516 spoiler chap regarding Haki.

---------------------------------------------------------

Here is my take on the whole 'Haki' issue.

I think most of you are overreacting regarding the matter. I think that in reality Haki will become somewhat of a staple in the New World but you guys are overestimating the power you acquire by being able to use this technique.

The whole making-people-fall-to-the-floor-with-foaming-mouths has only been displayed by Shanks (one of the Four Pirate Emperors) and Rayleigh (the first mate of the Pirate Fucking King). Of course these people have incredible ambitions and would be able to project a sense or aura which would be more powerful the anything a fodder pirate can muster.

Aokiji, Kikzru and Sentoumaru as well as Kuma, Moria etc... have proven to be incredibly powerful and I am sure that to a certain extent the do in fact know how to use Haki. But that doesn't mean they can use it to the extent that the aforementioned guys can.

In general the StrawHats have been pretty weak in information regarding what's going on in the world (obviously for storytelling purposes). They didn't know about log poses, Grand Line navigation, Shichibukai, Admirals, EL, CP1-CP8. They are pretty naive in this world and that is how it always is with the main characters because if they know everything then the story cannot be told. Hell they hadn't even heard of any other Supernovae whereas all the others seemed to know/have heard of each other. So it makes sense that Haki has been around/being used without them knowing.

While Naruto/DBZ/etc chose to base the manga on such techniques, One Piece developed the characters, other crews and then decided to introduce the whole 'chi' idea at a later stage.

In the same fashion that SSJ/Sharingan would be an analogy to Luffy's Gears (hard to sustain, possibly dangerous at first, but then a relatively common and staple technique (which will happen with Luffy's Gears)), hake is really an easy thing to map an analogy to. Instead of using the obvious Chi/Over 9000 analogy I'm going to compare Haki to skateboarding. The numbers used below are only for educational purposes and probably aren't accurate, but they give a pretty clear picture.

50% of people don't skate at all.
10% of people have skated at some point but don't do it regularly.
40% of people can skate properly.

Out of the 40% skaters:
80% can skate from point A to point B as a method of stress release or maybe to get somewhere easier.
15% enjoy trying tricks in skate parks/half pipes etc...
5.9999999996268656716417910447761% can perform tricks in a fairly professional level.
0.000000000373134328358208955224% is Tony Hawk.

I don't skate but you see my point. Only one person in the world is Tony Hawk. Sure many people have used Haki but only very, very few are powerful enough to be impressive.

[brennen.exe]

Not to intrude between Brennen.exe's and Zik's argument.

Discussion. No worries though, we were finished.

Edit: Cool, I'm part of a 5.9999999996268656716417910447761 percentile!!

[phyrros]

I must admit that brook is a complicate case. His whole body died. So the DF power has to take his mind state (as the brain is a complicated connection of nerves and if you can save all these connections....) just beforre the death then it would saved the whole personality of brook. Maybe we can talk here about electric connections/wires (when it comes to the brain). The Df must have created a backup of these state (mentioned as the soul) and let it then come back to his body after his death. As this backup is just electricity it had the ability to float through the air (in the fog
which is basicaly evaporated water). This backup of his brain came then to a rotten body and somehow reintegrated it. This is where i allow some irational stuff cause i don't have any good idea at how he manage to move his squeleton but hey it's a shonen :) Maybe that he gained the ability to move the cells and attract them with a strong magnetic field. I dunno.

.. hard to say if i should laugh or raise my thumbs ^^

After all, common biophysics know nothing about soul inprints, electrical storage of the whole brain etc. (or, yeah, maybe one point: rather than taking the brain as a set of wires take it as a set of nodes which are connected...) BUT as i really like sheldrakes theory of a morphogenetic field i admit there is the possibility of an free-form soul imprint on the search for a new host; aka. a ghost.

[captainjustin]

my favorite part is how you let us know that you've been thinking this ever since shanks looked at the sea king. yeah, that was sweet.

[*Meh*]

The Haki Frequency? It's 4.242564 Hertz. Not to be confused with Brown Noise.

[Zik]

The Haki Frequency? It's 4.242564 Hertz. Not to be confused with Brown Noise.

LOL, this makes me think there could be a sound Df where the user can use the brown note as an attack.

[flandrian15]

my favorite part is how you let us know that you've been thinking this ever since shanks looked at the sea king. yeah, that was sweet.

Well, that really wasn't all that long ago though. I started reading OP when there were like a 200 chapters out or something and almost read straight through it
anyway, that would be quite fast though but actually mean that, now that something that negates DF's (probably) is being shown I already thought that it would exsist somehow and that it would have to do with frequencies. That's more accurate. So not from first chapter off course cause a bit more info was needed!

[nintouryu]

it's good to see other people's appinion, thanks

[Zik]

The one speech bubble that makes me to believe that Zoro used Haki is „what’s wrong? Where has all your strength gone?”. I think he know she was stronger before but becomes weaker suddenly and that Zoro put even his hand in his pocket. So in my opinion he used Haki and is wondering that she becomes weaker because he doesn’t know that he used a technique like that.

Meh, that's a reach and if true it'll never be revealed.

[MagneticMonkey]

I'm impressed you managed to come up with a science-sounding explanation for this one. Actually, this is one of the things I can't come up with a scientific explanation. But there are still questions that needs to be addressed if you'll try to explain that phenomenon this way. Why does Brooke called that fog as soul? In your interpretation, you seem to say that there is a scientific explanation for souls. And I believe there have been some incidents in OP which involved souls, like that of Nami's foster mother who pushed Nami away of her house. And I wonder why that soul/fog came from the skies, beyond the clouds (that's what I watched in the anime. Tell me if it's different from the manga). It is suggesting the very common notion of souls: that they reside in the heavens which IMO can't be explained scientifically.

1) if i really understand your first question my answer to it will be: Brooke called the fog the soul because he don't have an explanation to it. Things that you cannot explain have always been stated as mystical etc... Many would say that the GL is mystical. I speculate that the strong magnetic fields are the reasons of circular rainbows or serpent waves etc...

2) The story with namis foster mother who pushed nami out of the house is personally new to me. Maybe that i forgot it. I said in my post that if you want to "save" the state of the brain (the whole electric impulses/connections representing your personality your wishes, your dreams, your qualities etc) you must duplicate it somehow. In the fog you can let electricity circulate (high concentration of evaporated sea water). Maybe that the fog that everyone sees at a soul is just a high concentration of evaporated water where a copy of the brain state exists thus making it possible for dead people to think after the death. See the clouds molecules (water + other stuff) as the nerves that just hold the same electric impulses like the brain. Your personality is saved and you have a life after death in your little fog/cloud and everybody shit his pants full if they see you cause you're a freaky ghost now :) So If namis mother came from the sky then it's pretty obvious that her state of mind was somehow saved in the sky clouds. Well i said that i can't recall it in the manga.

[Fiasco.]

This thread still open? Hm?


I guess i'll contribute to the semi-deceased discussion by saying I don't agree with this frequency fiasco.

[SMUDGE]

i honestly dont know why anyone starts these threads anymore, why would any1 go through all the effort to create a decent theory with facts and info to back there theory, coz at the end of the day 90% of the people that comment just critisize and complain, make mountains out of molehills and overall completely ruin the forum....

gr8 theory, i cant wait to see if its right, or close

[Fiasco.]

i honestly dont know why anyone starts these threads anymore, why would any1 go through all the effort to create a decent theory with facts and info to back there theory, coz at the end of the day 90% of the people that comment just critisize and complain, make mountains out of molehills and overall completely ruin the forum....

gr8 theory, i cant wait to see if its right, or close

I remember you, the guy with the "Luffy's 4th gear is aura" and you made it your name and everything. lol.

[MagneticMonkey]

I remember you, the guy with the "Luffy's 4th gear is aura" and you made it your name and everything. lol.

Why do you write in this thread? Are you trying to troll. If you haven't any arguments against or for our theories then .... you know what you have to do.

[Fiasco.]

Why do you write in this thread? Are you trying to troll. If you haven't any arguments against or for our theories then .... you know what you have to do.

Do you want me to repeat what others have already said, is that an arguement in your eyes? Or is it that you can't see the obvious signs that i'm against this theory?


Haki being in frequency with the soul of all thing is a bit of a stretch in my opinion, Oda isn't the kind of person to complicate things, that is why I don't agree with this theory.



Happy?