General 'Haki' Discussion

[pwnobi]

My point is that Whitebeard not being able to haki blast the executioners doesn't suggest that Rayleigh or Shanks don't have the King's Haki, because even if they don't have the King's Haki we do know they can knock people out. Plus, everything points to knocking fodders out being something only those with the King's Haki are capable of.

All that aside, I think scenario B is much more likely. Yeah, Luffy was able to use the King's Haki while injured but you have to remember he just had an adrenaline boost a couple seconds ago. Might also explain why he couldn't/didn't haki blast the other time Ace was about to get his head lopped off. I don't know, there is just something about the World's strongest man, someone even Roger couldn't beat, not having the King's Haki that just sounds weird.

You have a point, it doesn't definitely prove anything, or even heavily imply. It merely makes a logical trail that one could use to assume they don't have it. I'm not sure you mean by

everything points to knocking fodders out being something only those with the King's Haki are capable of.

What exactly points to this explicitly? Also, I don't think it would be "weird" for Whitebeard to not have King's Haki. Instead, I think of it as evidence that Haki is genetic, or not something that can strictly be learned.

[Polygon]

What exactly points to this explicitly? Also, I don't think it would be "weird" for Whitebeard to not have King's Haki. Instead, I think of it as evidence that Haki is genetic, or not something that can strictly be learned.

The people of Amazon Lily recognized that Luffy had the King's Haki when he knocked out half the arena and now one of the division commanders labeled Luffy's Haki as the King's Haki when all the fodder starting losing consciousness. If it isn't the knocking people out that caused these people to think Luffy had the King's Haki, then what did?

As for haki being genetic, I really really doubt that. Have you ever heard of someone genetically inheriting ambition? Plus, it being genetically inherited would make it seem pretty cheap.

[pwnobi]

The people of Amazon Lily recognized that Luffy had the King's Haki when he knocked out half the arena and now one of the division commanders labeled Luffy's Haki as the King's Haki when all the fodder starting losing consciousness. If it isn't the knocking people out that caused these people to think Luffy had the King's Haki, then what did?

As for haki being genetic, I really really doubt that. Have you ever heard of someone genetically inheriting ambition? Plus, it being genetically inherited would make it seem pretty cheap.

Blackbeard could tell the level of Luffy's Haki without Luffy doing anything, so perhaps it's something that certain people can sense, or readily identify. Also, we already know the will of the D. is genetic, so it's not that farfetched to think Haki could be genetic as well. Especially when most of the Haki users we've seen are all from the same island.

[Polygon]

Blackbeard could tell the level of Luffy's Haki without Luffy doing anything, so perhaps it's something that certain people can sense, or readily identify. Also, we already know the will of the D. is genetic, so it's not that farfetched to think Haki could be genetic as well. Especially when most of the Haki users we've seen are all from the same island.

Which only strengthens my point. If Blackbeard could sense Luffy's haki and it's level without Luffy doing anything, then for sure at least one person in an entire island of haki users should have been able to do the same. Meaning, they should have been able to tell that Luffy has the King's Haki the first time they saw him.

The will of D is completely different. Not only do we not know that it's genetic (it could just as easily be a destiny thing and have nothing to do with their DNA), we don't even know what it is. While haki is something that can obviously be taught and learned. It translates directly into ambition, and the very thought of ambition being genetic seems really weird and cheap.

[Zkaiser]

Which only strengthens my point. If Blackbeard could sense Luffy's haki and it's level without Luffy doing anything, then for sure at least one person in an entire island of haki users should have been able to do the same. Meaning, they should have been able to tell that Luffy has the King's Haki the first time they saw him.

The will of D is completely different. Not only do we not know that it's genetic (it could just as easily be a destiny thing and have nothing to do with their DNA), we don't even know what it is. While haki is something that can obviously be taught and learned. It translates directly into ambition, and the very thought of ambition being genetic seems really weird and cheap.

Who was taught and/or learned haki?

[Polygon]

Do you think random people just wake up one day and have mastery of haki?

[Zkaiser]

Answer my question.

[pwnobi]

The will of D is completely different. Not only do we not know that it's genetic (it could just as easily be a destiny thing and have nothing to do with their DNA)

I never said The Will of D. and Haki were the same. I'm not sure how you're going to argue it's not genetic when Luffy had it as a child before he even had an ambition. It's clearly something passed down through a clan or something of the like, I doubt you can just become a D by having a bit ambition. Show me someone with a D, whose child did not have a D. I'm really surprised I actually have to debate the will of the D being genetic, passed down in the family.

While haki is something that can obviously be taught and learned.

Are we reading the same manga? Please show me the evidence I looked over that made it OBVIOUS that Haki is taught and learned.

It translates directly into ambition, and the very thought of ambition being genetic seems really weird and cheap.

I don't think calling something "weird" in One Piece is enough to persuade anyone that it isn't true or can't happen. To be honest I admit I don't really think it is, but it's certainly possible and I'm entertaining the idea. The fact that the whole Kuja island seemed to be able to do it, even the fodder, and they don't seem to have much ambition.

[Polygon]

Alright: Everyone who has displayed Haki so far except Luffy.

Now you answer mine.

[Zkaiser]

Alright: Everyone who has displayed Haki so far except Luffy.

Now you answer mine.

Insufficient answer. There is no proof that they were taught or learned it.

Do you think random people just wake up one day and have mastery of haki?

You don't wake up and have mastery of it, but you can wake up and have/use it. Case and point is Monkey D. Luffy.

[pwnobi]

Insufficient answer. There is no proof that they were taught or learned it.


You don't wake up and have mastery of it, but you can wake up and have/use it. Case and point is Monkey D. Luffy.

True, and true.

[Polygon]

I never said The Will of D. and Haki were the same. I'm not sure how you're going to argue it's not genetic when Luffy had it as a child before he even had an ambition. It's clearly something passed down through a clan or something of the like, I doubt you can just become a D by having a bit ambition. Show me someone with a D, whose child did not have a D. I'm really surprised I actually have to debate the will of the D being genetic, passed down in the family.

I never said you said they were the same. I said they are completely different, meaning you can't compare one to the other at all like you were doing.

I wasn't arguing that the will of D wasn't genetic, I was just listing possibilities. Like I said before, we don't even know what the Will of D is, we know absolutely nothing about it whatsoever except that the D's have some kind of connection with it. Also, by genetic I meant actually being integrated into the DNA. It can still be a family thing without it being genetic.

Are we reading the same manga? Please show me the evidence I looked over that made it OBVIOUS that Haki is taught and learned.

I said it's obvious that haki can be taught and learned, unless you think every haki user just randomly woke up one day with perfect knowledge of haki and the ability to use it.

[Zkaiser]

I said it's obvious that haki can be taught and learned, unless you think every haki user just randomly woke up one day with perfect knowledge of haki and the ability to use it.

What makes you think it can be taught and be learned by everybody?

[Polygon]

Insufficient answer. There is no proof that they were taught or learned it.

The very fact that they know how to use it is proof that they learned it.

You don't wake up and have mastery of it, but you can wake up and have/use it. Case and point is Monkey D. Luffy.

Luffy didn't just wake up randomly one day and learn have haki, if that's what you think.

And right now Luffy can't use haki. Saying he can use haki is like saying a baby who took it's first step can now walk. He will eventually learn how to use haki, maybe I should have added the word use.

[pwnobi]

I never said you said they were the same. I said they are completely different, meaning you can't compare one to the other at all like you were doing.

I wasn't arguing that the will of D wasn't genetic, I was just listing possibilities. Like I said before, we don't even know what the Will of D is, we know absolutely nothing about it whatsoever except that the D's have some kind of connection with it. Also, by genetic I meant actually being integrated into the DNA. It can still be a family thing without it being genetic.



I said it's obvious that haki can be taught and learned, unless you think every haki user just randomly woke up one day with perfect knowledge of haki and the ability to use it.

You do realize by genetic I mean "a family thing," right?

@Polygon:
I think your analogy is a bit wrong. Saying Luffy can use Haki is like saying a dog that does a neat trick but not when you tell it to, can do a neat trick, which it technically can. To continue, Luffy has not been taught Haki and yet he is using it, and it's only a matter of time until he gets used to it. People can actually figure things out for them self through experience, not everything has to be taught/learned.

[Polygon]

What makes you think it can be taught and be learned by everybody?

The fact that an entire island can use it, the fact that it means ambition (which everyone has) and this.

Plus, if it couldn't potentially be learned by everyone it'd seem like a cheap plot device. To me at least.

You do realize by genetic I mean "a family thing," right?

No, I wasn't aware. If so then yeah I agree the will of D is more than likely a genetic thing.

EDIT: Not really, since the dog could do the neat trick whenever he wants to, he just chooses not to. Luffy can't use haki whenever he wants to. He has only been shown to use one aspect of haki and that's only in super emotional situations.

[Zkaiser]

maybe I should have added the word use.

That's a VERY big difference. Of course you can't wake up and know how to USE it. My theory is that haki is an inherited ability that cannot even be used by people without the right trait within them. I don't think that Joe Schmo can walk up to Rayliegh and after a couple of training classes have the ability to knock people out. Something needs to be present in the practitioner in order for them to use it.

[pwnobi]

The fact that an entire island can use it, the fact that it means ambition (which everyone has) and this.

Plus, if it couldn't potentially be learned by everyone it'd seem like a cheap plot device. To me at least.

I don't think everyone has ambition.

EDIT: Not really, since the dog could do the neat trick whenever he wants to, he just chooses not to. Luffy can't use haki whenever he wants to. He has only been shown to use one aspect of haki and that's only in super emotional situations.

Touche, seems like both our analogies are wrong.

That's a VERY big difference. Of course you can't wake up and know how to USE it. My theory is that haki is an inherited ability that cannot even be used by people without the right trait within them. I don't think that Joe Schmo can walk up to Rayliegh and after a couple of training classes have the ability to knock people out. Something needs to be present in the practitioner in order for them to use it.

Well said, although I'm pretty sure nobody thinks that just anybody can take a few classes and knock people out.

[Polygon]

That's a VERY big difference. Of course you can't wake up and know how to USE it. My theory is that haki is an inherited ability that cannot even be used by people without the right trait within them. I don't think that Joe Schmo can walk up to Rayliegh and after a couple of training classes have the ability to knock people out. Something needs to be present in the practitioner in order for them to use it.

I don't think some random guy can go through a one month regimen and be able to use haki, in fact that'd be pretty absurd. But I do think that any random guy can potentially learn to use haki, even the King's haki. Just like almost any random guy can potentially become a top-tier fighter.Tthe cold hard truth though is that most people don't have want it takes to make it to that goal. They either lack, guts, determination, luck, motivation or perhaps a combination of things.

I don't think haki is genetic in the least. If we translated haki into english, I think a good translation would be spirit. Not spirit as in chi or chakra, but spirit as in actual vigor and drive. With every hard ship Luffy has faced in his life, with every life changing revelation, his spirit increased. Everytime he fought to the death for his friends, his vigour, ambition, spirit etc strengthened until it became so strong it is begining to affect others.

So while I don't think you can train specifically to strengthen your haki, anyone haki can be potentially strengthened or weakened though life experiences and that anyone can learn to use their haki, provided it's strong enough.

[Zkaiser]

I don't think some random guy can go through a one month regimen and be able to use haki, in fact that'd be pretty absurd. But I do think that any random guy can potentially learn to use haki, even the King's haki. Just like almost any random guy can potentially become a top-tier fighter.Tthe cold hard truth though is that most people don't have want it takes to make it to that goal. They either lack, guts, determination, luck, motivation or perhaps a combination of things.

I don't think haki is genetic in the least. If we translated haki into english, I think a good translation would be spirit. Not spirit as in chi or chakra, but spirit as in actual vigor and drive. With every hard ship Luffy has faced in his life, with every life changing revelation, his spirit increased. Everytime he fought to the death for his friends, his vigour, ambition, spirit etc strengthened until it became so strong it is begining to affect others.

So while I don't think you can train specifically to strengthen your haki, anyone haki can be potentially strengthened or weakened though life experiences and that anyone can learn to use their haki, provided it's strong enough.

What hardship has Luffy endured? The past couple of arcs? If so then he gained it in a couple of months.