General 'Haki' Discussion

[Cymelion]

Haki can't cancel Devil Fruit powers. It can only hit through their defenses. Only the Dark-Dark Fruit can actually take away a Devil Fruit user's power. And everyone has Haki and can technically learn it.

Hmmmmm?

Spoiler:

Seems ol' Rayleigh would dissagree with you there.
The Dark Dark fruit allows someone without Haki to remove DF powers.

[flandrian15]

So, you are saying that BB saying in Impel Down that Luffy's Haki has grown was not Color of Observation?
I think it was.
Also, I think BB has great resolve (the greatest I have seen outside Luffy's perhaps) so with that he should be able to use Haki like all other power houses in the series.

[DaeJi]

Hmmmmm?

Spoiler:

http://dl01.mangashare.com/manga/One-Piece/597/014.jpg

Seems ol' Rayleigh would dissagree with you there.
The Dark Dark fruit allows someone without Haki to remove DF powers.

Your link isn't working for me, but I don't need to see it to know that you are misreading the lines. He never actually says that Haki can remove a Devil Fruit user's ability. If Haki could remove Devil Fruit powers, why didn't anyone use that ability in the war with Whitebeard? Why did Luffy's attack bounce off of Marigold's block instead of stopping? Why did Rayleigh not use it to prevent Kizaru from forming a light sword?

With Haki you can hit a Devil Fruit user no matter the defenses their power gives them. But they still have and can use their powers. With Blackbeard and the Dark-Dark fruit, one touch and no power.

[Cymelion]

Your link isn't working for me, but I don't need to see it to know that you are misreading the lines. He never actually says that Haki can remove a Devil Fruit user's ability. If Haki could remove Devil Fruit powers, why didn't anyone use that ability in the war with Whitebeard? Why did Luffy's attack bounce off of Marigold's block instead of stopping? Why did Rayleigh not use it to prevent Kizaru from forming a light sword?

With Haki you can hit a Devil Fruit user no matter the defenses their power gives them. But they still have and can use their powers. With Blackbeard and the Dark-Dark fruit, one touch and no power.

Yeah stopped working for me too - they must have found a way to stop direct linking.
"Beside its ability to attack the weak points of Devil Fruit users, this 'Colour of Armaments' Haki also exists as the only way to oppose them. Even the flowing bodies of 'logia' users, which may feel invicible, can be captured as 'substantial bodies'"

Luffy: "So this is what let you touch Kizaru - then I could even hit Smoker from the marines and Aokiji right?"

So while yes I see we're arguing the same point - Dark Dark fruit takes away the ability to use DF powers while holding the person like sea stone does - Haki can also over power their abilities as WB showed in the battle and Rayleigh showed stopping Kizaru's attack when he was "untouchable"

Fighting BB means his DF nullifies DF abilities but Haki allows him to be hit

[Ryuksgelus]

I'm pretty sure if Enel played it safe and stayed a far distance away from BB, it wouldn't matte how much he tried sucking him up, he could teleport away, Same Kizaru. Any logia or DF that lets the user move at a rapid speed, then BB would have an incredibly hard time catching them.

Lightning and light are not getting away from a (psuedo) black hole. Speed means jack shit versus a black hole. If Teach creates a vortex in your direction you're being sucked in; end of story. Aim dodging is your only defense.

[Ryuunaga]

Haki is the same concept as Sea Limestone it doesn't take the powers away it just renders it useless

[Wisshard]

To me it'd actually be worse to imply that those who fail could never have the capability of attaining it.

You disagree with me here, but agree with me when I explain how I interpret Rayleigh's words...?

The way I see it, the capability those who fail lack is sufficient determination and motivation/ambition/will to awaken Haki - and they can't attain it in only a lifetime.

Because "personality molds" (awful way to put it, but I can't think of any better way) and how people are influenced while growing up shape the man or woman we become, and actively changing the self we became is hard (and requires a motivated/ambitious mind to do in the first place). Hence, the process of gaining sufficient determination to awaken Haki could be too long for only a lifetime for most people in One Piece.

[ponx]

The basic logic is being explained here and there, so I'll just add my own version of common sense.

Lots and lots of people can use Haki, but there is and always will be only one Yami Yami fruit (at any given single time, for those of you word sensitive), so why is it so strange to think that the power of Darkness > Haki in terms of fighting against a DF

[Hayama]

Question: What form on Haki was used to remove the exploding collar off Camie? Did he use the armor one to "contain" the explosion long enough to throw it out of harms way?

[Chopper Madness]

Haki is the same concept as Sea Limestone it doesn't take the powers away it just renders it useless

sea limestone???? is that what seastone stands for i thought it was just seastone

[Vanessa]

You disagree with me here, but agree with me when I explain how I interpret Rayleigh's words...?

Again, it's probably just the choice of words you're using that I'm getting hung up on.

Keeping me from agreeing 100%.

Question: What form on Haki was used to remove the exploding collar off Camie? Did he use the armor one to "contain" the explosion long enough to throw it out of harms way?

That wasn't Ambition...

Rayleigh's apparently done the whole "auction himself off then steal the money from whoever bought him" thing a couple times by the way Shackey put it.

Obviously he'd have to know how to take off the collar.

[Ryuunaga]

sea limestone???? is that what seastone stands for i thought it was just seastone

that is what i call it

[RPG KING]

besides the monster trio I don't see anybody else learning any form of the colors

[AllSundayNicoRobin]

If haki was already used by shanks in chapter 1, has oda always planned haki to come up later on?

[Pipio]

BB showed that yami yami no mi also has a pretty long range attack and with his fight with Ace also shows his attack are pretty devastating. anyway based on what he have done with WB he seems to be able to cancel some of DF's attack, and unless the DF users are really far away they will be sucked by BB's gravity pull. and although Kizaru Enel and even Croc or Aokiji have shown some super speed there seems to be some limit to it as Enel was unable to dodge attacks and Kizaru taking some time to move fast.

anyway what I am saying is yami yami no mi is far superior to haki when it comes to fighting against DF users.

The problem with the fight with ace was ace didn't move faster then a normal human. He didn't use soru or anything like it. Aokiji i'm pretty sure just used soru when we seen him move incredibly fast.

On the other hand Kizaru's ability allows him to move at the speed of light. Granted light can be sucked into a black hole if you want to get technical, but it needs to be close enough to get into the event horizon. Before that point light can move about freely.

[AlmostLegendary]

BB fanboys are out of them mind.

[Deicide]

Fighting BB means his DF nullifies DF abilities but Haki allows him to be hit

His DF allows him to be hit. He said himself: he can't turn insubstantial like other logias.

[Muda Muda no Mi]

No matter how fast your DF allows you to move, the Dark² fruit makes it impossible to avoid escaping it's pull. Blackbeard mentions this in his fight with Ace.

Granted, Ace isn't teleporting or super-speeding around the battlefield like Kizaru, Enel, or anyone with Soru might, but I would think that once BB has you locked on with Kurouzu, that's it; he's got you and you're getting pulled in, no matter what. Kurouzu pulls in DF powers, so it's a lock-on-and-pull-in the second he points his hand towards you...

Makes one wonder though: If you didn't have a Devil fruit, and Blackbeard used Kurouzu to suck you in, would you get sucked in or would it have no effect? Something about what BB said in the Banaro fight leads me to think that Kurouzu only works on peeps with DFs and not those without...

[S.C. Amigo]

If this Enel VS BB idea is still going around, I'll throw in two bits:

The thing with Enel was he lived in a land where no one seemingly had Armor Haki and only Seastone skates as a potential weakness. It doesn't really matter if it's Blackbeard or anybody with a strong Haki, the second they evade his body and hit him directly with the offensive part of the Armor Haki and/or blocked his lightning with the defensive part, Enel would still flip his shit out just like with Luffy. He has an incredibly destructive power but had very lacking actual combat skills. So, Blackbeard, Whitebeard, Shanks, Akainu, Rayleigh, whoever really would still cause that jawdrop.

[igetownd]

Haki can't cancel Devil Fruit powers. It can only hit through their defenses. Only the Dark-Dark Fruit can actually take away a Devil Fruit user's power. And everyone has Haki and can technically learn it.

Haki does cancel DF powers, just not all of it. It cancels the defense, and stops certain aspects of offense from working (like Akainu's lava burning Shank's sword).

As for Yami Yami fruit as a better alternative to Haki, that's only if you consider the anti-DF aspects of armament color. Haki offers much better defensive and survival capabilities than the darkness fruit's powers. Blackbeard may have the sturdiest body in One Piece, so he could do without any armor. The darkness fruit does provide good mobility (as witnessed in Impel Down), so he won't worry about being trapped or stuck. And the gravity is definitely something fun and useful.

The most bizarre part would be the ability to suck out DF powers. (The nikyu nikuy fruit pushed out pain and manifested it as a bubble.) If Blackbeard can keep stealing maximized DF powers, he'll eventually be a reason for Marines, Revolutionaries, non-WG nations, and pirates all over the world to put aside differences temporarily and unite.