I don't see any problem with them, so, yes I am
Last edited by shinpanman; June 14th, 2009 at 03:49 PM.
I think people are mixing him up with the great animators...If it wasn't for these 2 animators, I think this episode would have sucked.
-First animator started from the Gear Second activation up to the end of the first half.
Some of this animator works: Shishi Sonson and Kuma firing his laser (377), Mugiwara's Docking (367), Luffy raising his hat when talking to Moria in (357), Robin's Wing (347).
-Second Animator did the the second half up to the flashbacks.
Some of this animator works: Luffy finishing Oz(373), Law and Kid filler Vs. Kuma(401), First 5 minutes of (382), Kizaru finishing the captains (402).
The art was totally different from Takagi's average art. Their art was so good that made Takagi art crappy in comparison.
Last edited by XMURADX; June 14th, 2009 at 05:30 PM.
What I wonder is why no one on the show other than Inoue, Tate, and Yokoyama can draw Kuma and not have him look like shit. His face isn't exactly complex compared to all the other characters they have to draw, but they always manage to make it look odd. Maybe if they'd just stop giving him those silly-looking thin lips, he'd look better. I mean, between 404 and 405, there looked to be five different people drawing him. Jeez, even I can make him look better.
Oh well, as I said before, I've learned over the course of my anime viewing that even the lower-tier guys can whip up something good given the right people behind them and the right circumstance. Aside from some weird shots in the beginning, this episode did its job art-wise, I feel.
It should be a rule that Gear Second should always have animation like that. That was a great showing there.
I could do that with every episode. Not even Tate's look consistent all the time, as many screenshots from last week's showed. People just tend to be biased with an animation director they don't like, usually prejudging it even before an episode airs.
lol...The Best Kuma is Naoki Tate's.
The first great animator in 405 made him look scary and his body design was great.
@Goty...That's not true, cause if Takagi was capable of doing such thing he would have done it from long time ago, but since these awesome animators started working recently, they have been shifting around. Great Animators don't work under a specific person, but are given an important scene to do. Long time ago, only Tate was the great animator in One Piece, so you usually find him do the key animation in many episodes he didn't supervise, because he is an animator.
Tate scene doesn't look good when he doesn't animate them by himself or when they are given to poor animators, because besides supervising, Tate is an animator, I could tell his scenes easily from the rest of the episode.
In Episode 404 all the greatest One Piece animators worked on it. Not just Tate, that's why I think it was the best animated episode.
Last edited by XMURADX; June 14th, 2009 at 05:46 PM.
Takagi is one of the very few directors these days who's not afraid to try cartoonish, expressive faces like this, this, this and this, which is his trademark. If you rewatch pre-Alabasta episodes, you'll notice that exaggerated expressions were used way more for some reason, it makes his style stands out now. It's also worthy of note how the hairs look all really nice and detailed in his style.
Honestly, i think that compare his art to Yokoyama's or Fujita's is unreasonable.
It's funny, everyone is just talking about the supervisors, and keeps praising them, and they forgot who is really behind the fantastic and amazing scenes.
I've been praising Naoki Tate, because he was the best animator, until the new ones who are on his level started working during Thriller Bark and even increased up to this point.
I've never compared Takagi to Yokoyama or Fujita, neither put him on their level. I've been rating Takagi's episodes B to B+ from episode 370. I've never gave him a C+ until I saw his episode 397.
Takagi is above average, Yokoyama is average and Fujita is just horrible.
About the pics you posted, Only the Nami shot is actually good. Luffy and Sanji are just meh.
As we all know, Art style can be subject to opinion, so I really don't want to go there.
What I really care about and I have been following for the past year is the great animators, who makes your Jaw drop from the awesomeness, cause no matter who is the supervisor as long as the animators are good then the scene will look good. The A-listers have a special touch that makes the episode even more beautiful with the great art.
Not to forgot that the A-listers always get the great animators working under them. Because they deserve them.
I really have no problem with average supervisors when they do normal episodes, because I got used to them, but I get annoyed when such an important episode gets handled by them.
BTW, If you really don't believe me, you can compare the normal Takagi and the scene that the great animators handled. See how different the art look, Robin and Luffy are a very clear example.
For instance, some people see that famous screenshot of Luffy by Ishizuka and think it's a godly piece of badassery, while others say it's fugly shit. You know, the kind of thing that happens with Tate too - and pretty much every AD not called Eisaku Inoue..
Other than him, there isn't a clear "number one" behind the anime that handles every higher budget/major moment - hell, Fujita of all people had his chance on 372, and he was a new guy.
Anyway, even Inoue has some pretty cheap episodes like 284 in his history, so it's not like they're always stellar, just the bigger ones.
What i'm saying is that they usually bring the money (and animators) when it matters, regardless of the director.
with visibly inferior directors is crazy, moreso when the man has some very distinct characteristics that help to keep the show fresh. As i use to say, if the series looked the same way every single week..it would be boring as hell.
Last edited by goty; June 14th, 2009 at 08:40 PM.
Well, to change things up a bit, I plugged the name of the new guy, Toshio Deguchi, into ANN, and it seems that he's been an animation director for Digimon Savers and the 1996 Gegege no Kitaro series, as well as the character designer for the 1998 series Himitsu no Akko-chan, and did some key animation for Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni Kai (the one with the good art).
Admittably, that doesn't sound like the most impressive resume to me, but he's apparently been around the block for a while. Hopefully the pattern we've had lately of the new animation directors being good will still hold.
-Like how Tate made the punch in 396 or The meeting and Zoro Vs. Oz in 396.
-Like How Inoue made the Mugiwara Docking in 367, or Robin's wing in 347.
I wonder why episodes like 312 or 377 and even 404 had a bigger impact on me even though what happened in 405 was one of the biggest things ever.
When it's Takagi or anyone average, they can never surpass the manga in any scene.
I really hated how Takagi went cheap on the flashbacks. And when he made Luffy disappear, That was one of my favorite scenes, and Takagi fucked it up. Too bad non of the great animators worked on it.
Let me give you an example...
-Episode 383 - Nakatani (Gear Third Scene)
-Episode 261 - Kazuya Hisada (Zoro V.s T-Bone scene)
-Episode 265 - Masayuki Takagi * (from 19:07)
In all these scenes Naoki Tate was the key animator. We see clearly Naoki Tate's style even though he didn't supervise the episode.
Same thing happened in episode 405, The great key animators worked in it just like Tate and they kept their art style. And I have been following these animators froim quite a while, that's why I can tell their art style easily.
The only problem is that I don't know their names, that's why we give them codenames for now.
@Crossword, I really hope he turns out having good art. We need someone to replace Fujita and Kenji. I'm really sad Nakatani haven't done the ending, I really like her art.
Hey, Yokoyama is the only person on the show aside from Inoue and Tate who can draw Kuma (and is/was arguable more consistent than them) and have him look exactly like Oda's art the majority of the time. Just for that, he can stay. Fujita, well, unless he's conserving all of his awesome for another 372 and has to build up to it, eh, I could care less about whether he stays or goes.
As for gripes about stuff like the non-reanimated flashbacks, I get the feeling that stuff like that is more up to the episode directors and the budget rather than the animation directors, but I'm no expect as to the inner workings and cogs of the animation process.
I for one am glad they just used old footage for the flashbacks. Better than seeing them reanimated by Takagi, not because he's bad, but because some of those flashback scenes were gorgeous originally.
I really liked the animators that worked on Robin and Monster Chopper in the second half of 405 though. Wish I could tell who they were.
@Crossword, I do agree with you to some extent, I really loved Kenji's 360, 376 and 400. But his art on the Strawhats ranges from decent to Ugly.
@shinpanman...I really love that animator as well, he did the whole scene including the luffy breakdown scene. Extremely fluid animation. I call him Mr.Y (Cause his style is close to Hiroyuki Yamashita).
Here is all the scenes he worked on:
-Luffy's fight in ID in the opening
-Kid and Law Vs. Kuma filler (401)
-Kizaru finishing the 4 captains (402)
-Luffy finishing Oz (373)
-Zoro walking at the end of the episode, and his killer intent against the bounty hunters. (395)
-Sanji was smoking 3 cigarettes and the whole scene were the SH were flying to the human shop. (395)
-The starting of the filler episode 382 were Luffy, Usopp and Chopper are playing up to the moment Nami beats Sanji. (382)
-Luffy's fight against the bounty hunters at the start of the episode (392)
-The introduction of the Supernovas (392)
-From the moment Robin appears in the second half up to when the flashbacks starts (405).
-The scene were Kuma punches Bebpo in episode (404).
He is a new animator his first work was in episode 373. I really hope he stays. The only episode were his art changed was in Ishizuka's episode (401). Looks like Ishizuka likes to keep his episodes consistent art wise.
Also his work in 404 had tate's style, but cause it was a few seconds scene he tried to keep it consistent with Tate, since Tate worked on most of the filler scene in 404.
About the flashbacks, some were gorgeous like the Brook one, but some were bad. And I wanted it to be consistent, just like the flashbacks in 312.
And One Piece needs new music and sad tracks, I hope they don't milk Bink's Sake.
Last edited by XMURADX; June 17th, 2009 at 05:53 PM.
I second the need for new music. I've noticed some new I guess you'd describe it as "forboding" type music, but they need new sad music. The happy music can actually stay pretty much the same imo, just the sad music really needs to stop being the same one or two tracks with apparently now Bink's Sake thrown in.
On a more on topic note: I liked the animation at the end of 405, but they could have done with some movements being less exaggerated, at least imo.
Yeah, the anime doesn't really make any new music unless it's for a movie, or for Brook's eyecatch (Franky's, while awesome, was from a much earlier piece). I would have loved it if they had used the bit from Grand Line: Cold that I posted in the 404 thread at the end, but Mother Sea works as well.
Many of the songs have multiple parts to them, but they're largely underutilized, which is a shame, since One Piece has some truly great music. There's a part of Zoro's theme music that I think will be great for Impel Down, but I doubt we'll get to hear it.
Check out my tumblr for my thoughts on random movies and manga^^
Since we're in for quite a bit of filler, the lack of new background musics won't be all too noticeable and I'm willing to assume that the animators will begin to dip into the Movie 10 vault for the month before it's released or even sooner (that's about when Impel Down will start if they spend 10 episodes on filler, right?)
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