I'm thinking that there really aren't any clear boundaries between the two. Sure, some will fit into one of the two genres quite nicely. But I mean, hell, aren't there like a genre called avant-prog? Hahaha. :) I think I have seen it used somewhere anyways.
Last edited by Sarfallet; July 29th, 2012 at 03:26 PM. Reason: Added the quote.
Avant-garde music is a term used to characterize music which is thought to be ahead of its time, i.e. containing innovative elements or fusing different genres.[neutrality is disputed]
Historically speaking, musicologists primarily use the term "avant-garde music" for the radical, post-1945 tendencies of a modernist style in several genres of art music after the death of Anton Webern in 1945. In the 1950s the term avant-garde music was mostly associated with serial music.
Today the term may be used to refer to any other post-1945 tendency of modernist music not definable as experimental music, though sometimes including a type of experimental music characterized by the rejection of tonality.
Last edited by The Laughing Man; July 30th, 2012 at 06:58 PM.
"Experimental metal, also known as avant-garde metal or avant-metal, is a subgenre of heavy metal music loosely defined by use of experimentation and characterized by the use of innovative, avant-garde elements, large-scale experimentation, and the use of non-standard and unconventional sounds, instruments, song structures, playing styles, and vocal techniques. It evolved out of progressive rock, jazz fusion, and extreme metal, particularly death metal and black metal."
In my opinion, and based on the link song, it's still Prog. Just the hipster version. Because apparently Prog itself is now too mainstream.
That song definitely sounds like a rejected track from DT's Images and Words.
Not to say it was bad. It was definitely interesting, and I loved the piano.
Zephos is dicking with you guys lol but this reminds me
like, forgetting some wikipedia stuff that may not mean anything to you because just copy pasting stuff doesn't say anything, let me try to help:::
as a music scholar/shithead tbh i have only ever used the words avant-garde to describe works from a music epoch prior to ours because I think that matter of classification only works in the music century and a half predating when blues music became popular. If i ever call anything past the 50s avant-garde, it will be atonal works like this and I flat out stop using the word after 1970 as a MAX
and honestly? it's easier to call it improvisational, noise, they do other stuff that's kind of leaning more towards free jazz too with scatting and wailing
like if something is being called avant-garde it doesn't tend to be about classifying its sound, it's classifying a method of composition and when shit like this has already been around a while, dang son you sure are the FRENCH VANGUARD! Or something!
Like maybe to someone 's erik satie's VEXATIONS is avant-garde because it's 840 instances of playing the same few bars in succession on a piano over and over again and it lasts about 9 hours minimum and this was fucked up in the late 1800s when tonal music was being messed around with and aleatoric works hadn't seriously been pondered over, but it's not like it was ever gonna be something more widely seen as kosher or taken seriously until 1900s after his death.
[hilariously i've read the instructiosn over before and I'm not even sure if you're SUPPOSED to play it 840 times it's just how everybody understands it and I'm certain if that wasn't his intent, it's better off this way]
i'd buy that. although i think vexations is a lot easier to categorize under "hilarious piano piece"
i've sort of lazily called stuff "avant-[genre]" before as shorthand for implicitness, but I could never have actually seriously classified something as avant-metal, or avant-rock.
When I think avant-garde i just think of a different time and after the 70s, most stuff that's in that range of sound and ideas pretty bluntly tends to fall between improvisational noise and improvisational percussion. Prepared noise or prepared percussion. Sound collages and stuff. free jazz. Things that are very easily classified. Clasifications have to embody both an era and a sound at the same time and avant-garde isn't a very necessar label IMHO
far out dudes bodacious!
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the words avant-garde are also heavily related, to me, primarily to 20th century experimental works (like legitimate sorta-scientific experiments and not just someody unsure of what to call a music genre) where they were messing with electronic instruments for the first time
Last edited by The Beast; July 30th, 2012 at 09:53 PM.
And it doesn't describe a genre.
Like when Picasso was doing his shit that was avant-garde. But he belonged to the Cubist category of pictures.
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don't you tell ennio morricone and his friends what they can and can't do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But a bunch of crazy Italians had to dream it up and risk their eyes!
yeah i am a really really raelly really erally really really really raelly
of gruppo di improvvisazione nuova consonanza
like, talking avant-garde the basically did it all
they absorbed all of the musically illogical techniques around them like concrète and free jazz and worked with electroacoustic shit and tape manipulation and were like
let's experiment and see what futuristic shit falls out of my prepared piano and we'll hold hands and be pals 2
they even approached more visibly defined areas of jazz and took it pretty well, better than a lot of dudes from chciago
i just wish i had more information about them, like I've always wanted to but i could never find access to any of evangelisti (the mastermind)'s music theory and compositions. Only video footage and a few album recordings (which are all at least A+ stuff)
maybe if I knew how to speak italian I could gleam moer info from the thousands of hours of footage i've watched
Last edited by The Beast; July 30th, 2012 at 10:14 PM.
Speaking of Italian avant-garde...
This guy was pretty fly in his time.
Oh, also, Iannis Xenkis completley was avant-garde, cause he was hit by a tank shell in the face.
Anyways, I just get confused by genres myself. But if you don't want to call it avant-gard rock, what do you call like... Magma, Art Bears and them? Experimental rock? Progressive rock? O,o?
I don't know what came over me today. I don't have any particular taste in music as I never really listened to anything outside OST for games, and I've always felt intimidated by the massive amount of albums. But seeing that one of my favorite composers is inspired by Prog Rock, I decided to say,"Hell, why not listen to some prog rock and auqire some taste myself". I'm not sure if there is some sense of irony, but the ablum I choose to start with was "Tales from Totographic Oceans" by Yes. So yeah, my first ever exposoure to actual prog. Maybe I choose a bad one to start with, but idc. I almost can't wait to burn through some more albums after this!
Tales from Topographic Oceans has great moments surrounded by fifteen minutes of mediocrity. But some of those great moments are worth it.
I have to admit I've never listened to Tales from Topographic Oceans, but if you want some prog rock greatness from Yes, I can recommend Fragile and Close to the Edge.
We've had this discussion before, but Tales is somewhat polarizing. I absolutely love it, though I still would out Fragile and Close to the Edge above it. If you want me to unload a ton of prog recommendations upon ya, send me a message.
Also, did anyone here listen to the new Anglagard? That's up there among my favorites this year:
I finished all three. Yeah, I do like Fragile and Edge better than Tales, but Tales are overall satisfying. There was just so much kinds of moods.
My favorite one of the bunch had to be Fragile, if for those awesome bass solos towards the end. I wish I can comment a bit more(talking about the specifics of music is new to me), but my favorite thing about the stuff I have listened to has to be this unique mix of other sounds that seemed like they have came from different genres or cultures. In short, I was kind of surprised at the variety.
Message me as much prog as you can Wagmou. These really did put some ease and exitement on what could have been a dull day.
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