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Thread: Naruto Piece: JuJu vs. TL-S

  1. #141
    Language Terrorist taboo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto Piece: JuJu vs. TL-S

    i remember that it wasn't a matter of IF asuma died, but a matter of WHEN


    previously unused side character gets screen time for the first time in years, it becomes more of a symptom than development

    minor character disease

    always fatal
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  2. #142
    エッチなのはいけないと思います! Malintex_Terek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto Piece: JuJu vs. TL-S

    Quote Originally Posted by Airflow View Post
    Bleach fails as fight manga, Kubo fucked up every major fight recently. Either they happen off-panel or they happen in a white void where two characters fly around spamming beam attacks. Or alternatively, he takes a bullshit concept and applies it in a confusing and stupid manner that makes no sense and removes any tension from the fight a la Stark vs Shunsui. Or they go on for 7 chapters with very little happening as two characters exchange the same attacks again and again with the characters emerging from the smoke of each attack with a bored look on their face until it's solved by simple means. Or Kubo pulls some bullshit plot device that lets him easily take care of an extremely powerful character without putting any effort into the fight a la Wonderweiss vs the Shinigami captain. Or Aizen gets bored and puts an end to the fight by being stupidly overpowered.

    And I haven't even got to the beam spamming powerup abusing tedium of Ichigo fights.
    You know what really irks me?

    When people criticize Bleach, and others get on the bandwagon, but when someone suggests some good type of anime/manga people start going NUH-UH, I AIN'T WATCHING NO NON-SHOUNEN.

    What are these kids, like, 10? Do concepts like character development, plot and fight mechanics actually intimidate them. I can't see why, I might be a bit insane but I am not a blathering retard who drools on his/her keyboard.

    Though I might have fooled some people.
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  3. #143
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    Default Re: Naruto Piece: JuJu vs. TL-S

    Quote Originally Posted by JERK DISEASE View Post
    Congrats on citing one of the worst arcs and one of the worst things (the fight with Kakuzu).
    The worst? Well, I enjoyed it much more than any other arc of the second part

    Pointless fruitless character development for someone Kishi never used again? Check.
    Kishimoto loves Shikamaru, I'm 98% sure that Shikamaru will be important for the plot again down the line, probably in this war too.
    Besides, even if it was fruitless, I'm reviewing this arc when compared to the others, not with the others, so even if it was a random arc pulled out of nowhere about characters that we never met before and would never meet again, it could still be better than the others.

    Unbelievable victory in battle? Check.
    Not sure if you meant Hidan or the guy with 5 hearts, so I'l discuss both:

    Hidan:
    -The blades with Shikamaru's chakra was a smart and believable plan, the whole initial plan was in fact overcomplex, with the previous exploding paper, shadows coming from below, Shikamaru attacking from above with two exploding papers and those exploding papers turning out to be fake.

    -Shikamaru using that (again, overcomplex) plan to use the shadows to follow Hidan, to then throw the blades, to then try to use shadows coming from the other side, to then actually running and giving a punch to Hidan, to then using the fall to use his Shadow Jutsu was not unbelievable.

    -And last, but not least, Shikamaru leading Hidan into his clan's garden and simply going through the motions to get him to fall in a hole (and kill one of Kazuku's hearts in the process) was not unbelievable.

    I found that battle pretty well written, with Hidan getting all that hype and getting legitimately beaten by Shikamaru.

    Now, about Kakuzu:

    -Kakashi appearing from out of nowhere and taking away one of his hearts wasn't unbelievable, we all know that Kakashi is one of the strongest ninjas in the world even before the beginning of the story, those two guys didn't even know they were gonna face someone like Kakashi, thinking they'd only face Team 10. So Kakuzu being surprised by Kakashi wasn't unbelievable.

    -Kazuku getting his heart destroyed by Hidan was not unbelievable, although I do agree that Shikamaru managing to use that bottle in one nano-second to pretend he's the one getting hit was a little far-fetched.

    -Now, I didn't like the last part of the battle too, but it wasn't really that unbelievable. Naruto tried to use that Rasengan on Kazuku after using a distraction, Kazuku almost got hit by the Rasengan, but the rasengan stopped right before the hit. Kazuku got afraid of getting hit by that again, and saw more Narutos coming, thinking it was gonna be like last time, he ignored the fake Narutos this time and concentrated on the big Rasengan coming, he avoided that and got hit by the real Rasengan by the "fake" Narutos.

    Now, yes, it is true that Kazuku was a little too dumb for someone with the experience of over 100 years, but its plausible to believe that Kazuku underestimated Naruto, he did, after all, say at the ending "I can't believe I got beat by these kids"

    Absolute final deathbed of any ability to take seriously the Aktsuki as the ultimate villains and foe? Check.
    Why? I mean, first of all, it was established that these were weaker than the main guys in the Akatsuki (like Pein, Itachi and the fish guy I forgot the name ), and their abilities were powerhouses, so the feeling they gave to me was "Wow, so if these two immortal guys are the mid-tier of the Akatsuki, what the heck is god-tier?", but I guess we had different line of thinking after this arc, lol.

    Complete fulfillment of formlessness of Part 2 story structure? Check.
    Not sure what you mean with this.

    Character of no use used as cheap death? Check.
    Well, at least Kishimoto gave it some use to develop Shikamaru. Yes, I didn't find it much sad or well done the whole thing about that pro dying, but it made me hyped for Hidan and made me enjoy far more the battle between Shikamaru and Hidan.

  4. #144
    A real rain will come... Rank: Failed Mutineer JERK DISEASE's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto Piece: JuJu vs. TL-S

    The worst? Well, I enjoyed it much more than any other arc of the second part
    No I guess anything involving Sasuke was worse.

    Kishimoto loves Shikamaru, I'm 98% sure that Shikamaru will be important for the plot again down the line, probably in this war too.
    He'll probably have one more off screen fight. Because he's been neglected like the other 80% of the cast.
    Literally the only thing that changed in that arc for him was he started smoking.
    And this is what passes for character development.

    His character is dull now anyway, he's a smug little ace, I miss the part 1 Shikamaru, the dunce who was actually smart. That whole thematic world is dead and gone and I don't think Kishi even remembers it.

    Besides, even if it was fruitless, I'm reviewing this arc when compared to the others, not with the others, so even if it was a random arc pulled out of nowhere about characters that we never met before and would never meet again, it could still be better than the others.
    The defeat of Kakuzu is easily one of the worst moments in Part 2, and this arc is the proud owner of it.

    Now, about Kakuzu:
    This is the one.

    -Kakashi appearing from out of nowhere and taking away one of his hearts wasn't unbelievable, we all know that Kakashi is one of the strongest ninjas in the world even before the beginning of the story,
    Kakashi was just one of the many jounin in the village, who was maybe slightly more impressive then the rest. Famous for his eye.
    This bullshit about him being one of the best in the world is a new invention that is by and large lame.

    those two guys didn't even know they were gonna face someone like Kakashi, thinking they'd only face Team 10. So Kakuzu being surprised by Kakashi wasn't unbelievable.
    What are you even saying?
    That Kakuzu had his power level down? He's the equivalent of the Shichibukai if not better in the Naruto world, having to deal with an elite dude all of a sudden isn't going to be deal breaker. Of course none of this is touching on the real sin of the fight.

    -Now, I didn't like the last part of the battle too, but it wasn't really that unbelievable.
    YES. YES IT WAS.

    Naruto tried to use that Rasengan on Kazuku after using a distraction, Kazuku almost got hit by the Rasengan, but the rasengan stopped right before the hit. Kazuku got afraid of getting hit by that again, and saw more Narutos coming, thinking it was gonna be like last time, he ignored the fake Narutos this time and concentrated on the big Rasengan coming, he avoided that and got hit by the real Rasengan by the "fake" Narutos.
    Zabuza, fucking Zabuza, survived this scenario. There is no justification for an S-Class warrior to fall to this shit.

    Akatsuki were the biggest dissiapointment short of the whole series by far.

    Now, yes, it is true that Kazuku was a little too dumb for someone with the experience of over 100 years, but its plausible to believe that Kazuku underestimated Naruto, he did, after all, say at the ending "I can't believe I got beat by these kids"
    So his reflexes were shit too? The exact same scenario happened with Zabuza and he dodged it.

    Why? I mean, first of all, it was established that these were weaker than the main guys in the Akatsuki (like Pein, Itachi and the fish guy I forgot the name ), and their abilities were powerhouses, so the feeling they gave to me was "Wow, so if these two immortal guys are the mid-tier of the Akatsuki, what the heck is god-tier?", but I guess we had different line of thinking after this arc, lol.
    Myabe if all the rest of the Akatsuki weren't every bit as pathetic it would be different, not that it was though. Because weaker doens't mean weak.

    Not sure what you mean with this.
    The entire arc was pretty much Kishi pulling plot elements out of a hat and throwing some scenarios together with a weak contrived thread of Shikamaru running through it.
    He pissed away two Akatsuki for really no real reason, I mean really, has any Akatsuki aside from Itachi and Tobi/Madara (both fucking Uchias) even had a real plot use?

    Look how carefully Oda handles his use of the Shichibukai, how he handles their defeats and usage. How we still haven't REALLY dealt with all but two of them.
    How just one was the central antagonist for like pretty much ten volumes of various arcs. How his defeat was so hard fought requiring three gos.

    Moria has been handled differently maybe, but even he had pretty specific circumstances, and has been apparently assassinated for his incompetence.

    And above all look at the miserable pile of shit that is Kounin.

    Well, at least Kishimoto gave it some use to develop Shikamaru.
    He started smoking? Great. And we'll never see him again outside of quick shots of fights we won't see? Or him smiling at some gay thing Naruto does?
    Excellent.

    And Shikamaru is the best of the wasted bumper crop of characters Kishi introduced in the Exam.
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  5. #145
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    Default Re: Naruto Piece: JuJu vs. TL-S

    Quote Originally Posted by JERK DISEASE View Post
    No I guess anything involving Sasuke was worse.
    So... the rest of part 2

    He'll probably have one more off screen fight. Because he's been neglected like the other 80% of the cast.
    Literally the only thing that changed in that arc for him was he started smoking.
    And this is what passes for character development.
    He started smoking? Great. And we'll never see him again outside of quick shots of fights we won't see? Or him smiling at some gay thing Naruto does?
    Excellent.

    And Shikamaru is the best of the wasted bumper crop of characters Kishi introduced in the Exam.
    I'm pretty sure that Shikamaru won't be neglected, Kishimoto loves him, this is a fact, I am sure that we will see more of him, Kishimoto may be lazy (as far as manga writers go) but he isn't (that) retarded, he wouldn't make an entire arc with Shikamaru just to completely forget him for the rest of the series, he hasn't been shown doing much since then, sure, but Shikamaru will be important in the future, I'm sure of this.

    His character is dull now anyway, he's a smug little ace, I miss the part 1 Shikamaru, the dunce who was actually smart. That whole thematic world is dead and gone and I don't think Kishi even remembers it.
    Shikamaru was smug from the beginning, sexist, lazy, and he was arguably mocking that wind girl at the end of the Chunin Tournament.
    In fact, to be honest, the whole smug thing is not as in-your-face as it was on Part 1
    The only thing that looks more smug now is his face

    The defeat of Kakuzu is easily one of the worst moments in Part 2, and this arc is the proud owner of it.
    Meh, I think we've seen worse

    This is the one.
    Crap...
    Well, at least we agree that Shikamaru VS Hidan was a good combat...
    Right?

    Kakashi was just one of the many jounin in the village, who was maybe slightly more impressive then the rest. Famous for his eye.
    This bullshit about him being one of the best in the world is a new invention that is by and large lame.
    He's been mentioned by a lot of characters, he is the son of another great ninja and he's known for having over 1000 (!!!) Ninja Techniques. Sure, he doesn't use any of those, but it doesn't change the fact that he's known for being a master of the Sharingan and the copy eye.
    And come on, tell me 5 ninjas better than him in Konoha.

    What are you even saying?
    That Kakuzu had his power level down? He's the equivalent of the Shichibukai if not better in the Naruto world, having to deal with an elite dude all of a sudden isn't going to be deal breaker. Of course none of this is touching on the real sin of the fight.
    I hate going deep on this part of the argument, but alright
    Kazuku understood that the Team 10 was in a big emotional pain, it isn't much of a stretch for him to believe they would try to get their revenge alone, a A-Class ninja appearing from out of nowhere after some minutes of battle in the situation where Kazuku was isn't unbelievable, its not like it was a big ninja technique or something, it was just a big dash into the heart of Kazuku.

    Akatsuki were the biggest dissiapointment short of the whole series by far.
    Sasuke turning evil was worse, IMO

    Myabe if all the rest of the Akatsuki weren't every bit as pathetic it would be different, not that it was though. Because weaker doens't mean weak.
    Itachi is a big overpowered machine, Deidara was very very powerful (Aside from Itachi and Orochimaru, he's the only guy who almost killed Part 2 Sasuke), Zetsu is pretty much unbeatable and Kisame just won't die, also, Tobi is Tobi

    The entire arc was pretty much Kishi pulling plot elements out of a hat and throwing some scenarios together with a weak contrived thread of Shikamaru running through it.
    He pissed away two Akatsuki for really no real reason, I mean really, has any Akatsuki aside from Itachi and Tobi/Madara (both fucking Uchias) even had a real plot use?

    Look how carefully Oda handles his use of the Shichibukai, how he handles their defeats and usage. How we still haven't REALLY dealt with all but two of them.
    How just one was the central antagonist for like pretty much ten volumes of various arcs. How his defeat was so hard fought requiring three gos.

    Moria has been handled differently maybe, but even he had pretty specific circumstances, and has been apparently assassinated for his incompetence.

    And above all look at the miserable pile of shit that is Kounin.
    YES. YES IT WAS.
    Zabuza, fucking Zabuza, survived this scenario. There is no justification for an S-Class warrior to fall to this shit.
    So his reflexes were shit too? The exact same scenario happened with Zabuza and he dodged it.
    I do agree that Kishimoto is a bad writer, and I do agree that its ridiculous that Zabuza evaded this while Kazuku lost, but Kazuku defeated the Hokage, a bunch of high class ninjas, so his underestimation of Naruto is plausible and...

    Oh, who am I kidding? The ending sucked

    Shikamaru VS Hidan was still awesome, though

  6. #146
    Great sage,equal of heaven Darkstorm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto Piece: JuJu vs. TL-S

    Quote Originally Posted by SGRaaize View Post
    Kishimoto may be lazy (as far as manga writers go) but he isn't (that) retarded,

  7. #147
    A real rain will come... Rank: Failed Mutineer JERK DISEASE's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto Piece: JuJu vs. TL-S

    So... the rest of part 2
    Hmm, parallel?

    I'm pretty sure that Shikamaru won't be neglected, Kishimoto loves him, this is a fact, I am sure that we will see more of him, Kishimoto may be lazy (as far as manga writers go) but he isn't (that) retarded,
    Do you think he's written 3/4 of the cast into irrelevance on purpose?
    He's lost control of this train.

    Shikamaru was smug from the beginning, sexist, lazy, and he was arguably mocking that wind girl at the end of the Chunin Tournament.
    He wasn't smug, he was sullen. Smugness is defined by a sense of satisfaction, he didn't have that before and was just angry at everything, and bored. I liked the image of a person who fell between the cracks of school not because he was dumb, but because he hated the system.

    Now he's just some ace ninja who is incredibly condescending.

    Crap...
    Well, at least we agree that Shikamaru VS Hidan was a good combat...
    Right?
    I don't even remember it. Aside from how it turned out.

    He's been mentioned by a lot of characters,
    It's a big world....or at least it was.

    he is the son of another great ninja
    So?

    and he's known for having over 1000 (!!!) Ninja Techniques.
    He steals techniques with his eye.

    Sure, he doesn't use any of those, but it doesn't change the fact that he's known for being a master of the Sharingan and the copy eye.
    And come on, tell me 5 ninjas better than him in Konoha.
    It was never established that he sat above all the other jounin, of who there were plenty. Not to mention Anbu. He was one of many, until Kishi got lazy and elevated him to one of the best in the world in one of his many violent attacks on his power scale and world sense.

    I hate going deep on this part of the argument, but alright
    Kazuku understood that the Team 10 was in a big emotional pain, it isn't much of a stretch for him to believe they would try to get their revenge alone, a A-Class ninja appearing from out of nowhere after some minutes of battle in the situation where Kazuku was isn't unbelievable, its not like it was a big ninja technique or something, it was just a big dash into the heart of Kazuku.
    And how can't this guy seem to dodge anything that he doesn't plainly see?
    Itachi is a big overpowered machine,
    The only one.
    And guess what? he was properly introduced and first fought in Part 1! In other words when Kishi was still writing well.

    Deidara was very very powerful
    Deidara died for a retarded reason against Sasuke. Sasuke who shouldn't have been on their level for ages more.

    Zetsu is pretty much unbeatable
    Half of Zetsu got skewered by Raikage, and on the whole he has never really fought. So why are you saying this?

    and Kisame just won't die,
    Kisame who was also apparently only on a Jounin level. Fighting an equal match pretty much with Gai.

    I do agree that Kishimoto is a bad writer, and I do agree that its ridiculous that Zabuza evaded this while Kazuku lost, but Kazuku defeated the Hokage, a bunch of high class ninjas, so his underestimation of Naruto is plausible and...
    Sorry I can't take that seriously after the things you listed.

    Oh, who am I kidding? The ending sucked
    Neither can you lol.
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  8. #148
    A real rain will come... Rank: Failed Mutineer JERK DISEASE's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto Piece: JuJu vs. TL-S

    I think what people need to understand is just how much Naruto is a failed world.
    Kishi really built up a universe through the Chunnin exam, a wide world of diverse powers and peoples.And he's shrunk and belittled every inch of that with essentially single training sequences and a single timeskip.

    Imagine if you will the possible One Piece timeskip going through, and then Luffy is able to pretty much beat Admirals.
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  9. #149

    Default Re: Naruto Piece: JuJu vs. TL-S

    Quote Originally Posted by JERK DISEASE View Post
    I think what people need to understand is just how much Naruto is a failed world.
    Kishi really built up a universe through the Chunnin exam, a wide world of diverse powers and peoples.And he's shrunk and belittled every inch of that with essentially single training sequences and a single timeskip.

    Imagine if you will the possible One Piece timeskip going through, and then Luffy is able to pretty much beat Admirals.
    ^

    The essence of why Naruto fails right there.

  10. #150
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    Default Re: Naruto Piece: JuJu vs. TL-S

    Quote Originally Posted by JERK DISEASE View Post
    Hmm, parallel?
    Sasuke has been in pretty much 90/100 of the second part, so you saying that the Kishimaru arc is one of the worst of part 2 when in fact 90% of part 2 is worse is a bit contradictory

    Do you think he's written 3/4 of the cast into irrelevance on purpose?
    He's lost control of this train.
    Its different, he cared about all his characters on Part 1 and on Part 2 forgot them, not with Kishimaru, he still makes Kishimaru have some importance around, he's still the smart guy, as seen when Naruto was discussing with the entire team, he had an arc just for him
    I'm 99% sure he will have some importance in the future

    He wasn't smug, he was sullen. Smugness is defined by a sense of satisfaction, he didn't have that before and was just angry at everything, and bored. I liked the image of a person who fell between the cracks of school not because he was dumb, but because he hated the system.
    Now he's just some ace ninja who is incredibly condescending.
    Oh, alright, sorry.
    He's not sullen now, but I don't think I agree with him being smug too, when exactly was he smug? I've been rereading the Shikamaru moments, and he really hasn't been more smug than before, or smug at all.

    I don't even remember it. Aside from how it turned out.
    'Twas a pretty awesome fight, reread it for the sake of arguing with you, still as good as I remember it, although a little short.

    It's a big world....or at least it was.
    Come on, now you're just exaggerating, we didn't know of the five lands, nor the kages, and all these ninjas in Part 1.
    Its a bigger world than it was before

    So?
    He has the bloodline

    He steals techniques with his eye.
    He was still known by a missing-nin from an completely different country

    It was never established that he sat above all the other jounin, of who there were plenty. Not to mention Anbu. He was one of many, until Kishi got lazy and elevated him to one of the best in the world in one of his many violent attacks on his power scale and world sense.
    No, he never was one of the many, I mean, it was never truly explained just how strong and known he was, but the fact he was known by a missing-nin from a different country was a signal that Kakashi is known by the world.

    And how can't this guy seem to dodge anything that he doesn't plainly see?
    Maybe that's his weakness, his lack of multi-tasking

    The only one.
    And guess what? he was properly introduced and first fought in Part 1! In other words when Kishi was still writing well.
    Alright

    Deidara died for a retarded reason against Sasuke. Sasuke who shouldn't have been on their level for ages more.
    It was kinda like a Deus-Ex Machina, which is exactly why Deidara is very powerful, Sasuke needed to pull a snake out of his ass to survive Deidara.

    Half of Zetsu got skewered by Raikage, and on the whole he has never really fought. So why are you saying this?
    He showed us some great techniques, and he is extremely overpowered, he can just disappear from the ground.

    Kisame who was also apparently only on a Jounin level. Fighting an equal match pretty much with Gai.
    He was a clone then, with only 10% of his strength
    Or am I confusing moments?

  11. #151
    エッチなのはいけないと思います! Malintex_Terek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto Piece: JuJu vs. TL-S

    Hey now, for whatever we've lost as far as the atmosphere of Konoha goes, we've gained it in the form of the Land of Lightning, right? Bee's flashback alone shows how competent the administration of Kumogakure was - the Raikage was apparently chose as a successor early, preventing petty power struggles from ensuing among potential candidates (Orochimaru's defection), they were competent enough to continuously suppress the Eight-Tails and developed the means of containing it, they encouraged the skill development of their Jinchuuriki.

    Kumogakure is more militaristic, but that style of administration has proven to be more effective and progressive than any other village. It's like Japanese Sparta. Hence why they had no Akatsuki representative - a deserter would have been assassinated immediately, there would have been no "Kage pardon" like what Sasuke got from Tsunade.
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  12. #152
    A real rain will come... Rank: Failed Mutineer JERK DISEASE's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto Piece: JuJu vs. TL-S

    Quote Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek View Post
    Hey now, for whatever we've lost as far as the atmosphere of Konoha goes, we've gained it in the form of the Land of Lightning, right? Bee's flashback alone shows how competent the administration of Kumogakure was - the Raikage was apparently chose as a successor early, preventing petty power struggles from ensuing among potential candidates (Orochimaru's defection), they were competent enough to continuously suppress the Eight-Tails and developed the means of containing it, they encouraged the skill development of their Jinchuuriki.

    Kumogakure is more militaristic, but that style of administration has proven to be more effective and progressive than any other village. It's like Japanese Sparta. Hence why they had no Akatsuki representative - a deserter would have been assassinated immediately, there would have been no "Kage pardon" like what Sasuke got from Tsunade.
    The Lightning Village is too little too late, and we've come in through the top tower door in someone elses mind.
    It would be like Fishman island only being really looked into via Jimbei flashbacks or something.
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  13. #153

    Default Re: Naruto Piece: JuJu vs. TL-S

    Quote Originally Posted by JERK DISEASE View Post
    His character is dull now anyway, he's a smug little ace, I miss the part 1 Shikamaru, the dunce who was actually smart. That whole thematic world is dead and gone and I don't think Kishi even remembers it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JERK DISEASE View Post
    His character is dull now anyway, he's a smug little ace, I miss the part 1 Shikamaru, the dunce who was actually smart. That whole thematic world is dead and gone and I don't think Kishi even remembers it.

  14. #154
    A real rain will come... Rank: Failed Mutineer JERK DISEASE's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto Piece: JuJu vs. TL-S

    Sasuke has been in pretty much 90/100 of the second part, so you saying that the Kishimaru arc is one of the worst of part 2 when in fact 90% of part 2 is worse is a bit contradictory
    He hasn't been in at least half of it, or wasn't the focus. The early stuff, like the fight with the puppet guy, the Pain stuff, the current stuff etc.

    Its different, he cared about all his characters on Part 1 and on Part 2 forgot them, not with Kishimaru, he still makes Kishimaru have some importance around, he's still the smart guy, as seen when Naruto was discussing with the entire team, he had an arc just for him
    I'm 99% sure he will have some importance in the future
    But he has no conflict anymore. He's not an underdog.

    Oh, alright, sorry.
    He's not sullen now, but I don't think I agree with him being smug too, when exactly was he smug? I've been rereading the Shikamaru moments, and he really hasn't been more smug than before, or smug at all.
    His arrogance and all that you mentioned MINUS the underdogness and sulleness equals smug. Those things are no longer interesting or charming. They've become in effect obnoxious.

    'Twas a pretty awesome fight, reread it for the sake of arguing with you, still as good as I remember it, although a little short.
    The fact that I don't recollect much about it isn't saying that I just forgot, it's saying that there was nothing about it that interested me whatsoever.

    Come on, now you're just exaggerating, we didn't know of the five lands, nor the kages, and all these ninjas in Part 1.
    Its a bigger world than it was before
    We knew about those all as early as the very start of Volume 2.
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/9/16/
    I mean what do you think the Chunnin exam was even stressing?? We had ninjas from all over the world there.
    He has the bloodline
    Speaking of things I hate in Naruto, that Part 2 has made worse, particularly by stressing this aspect about Naruto of all poeople, pissing on it's finest moment...

    He was still known by a missing-nin from an completely different country
    Likewise that missing nin was known by him. These are the the elites of the village. They are known throughout potentially. That's a huge leap to strongest in the world.

    No, he never was one of the many,
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/93/07/

    If you can reread your fave fight, maybe you can reread the whole thing.

    Maybe that's his weakness, his lack of multi-tasking
    I don't think you buy this.

    It was kinda like a Deus-Ex Machina, which is exactly why Deidara is very powerful, Sasuke needed to pull a snake out of his ass to survive Deidara.
    Survive Deidara commiting suicide because he couldn't beat Sasuke otherwise.

    He showed us some great techniques, and he is extremely overpowered, he can just disappear from the ground.
    Sudden vanishing is not overpowered.

    He was a clone then, with only 10% of his strength
    Or am I confusing moments?
    That still does not at all point to overpowered. He simply hasn't done anything really, we shouldn't discuss Zetsu one way or the other.
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  15. #155
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    Default Re: Naruto Piece: JuJu vs. TL-S

    I think Asuma's death may have been better than J-Man's.

    Partly because Hidan was a somewhat better character than Pain.

  16. #156
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    Default Re: Naruto Piece: JuJu vs. TL-S

    Quote Originally Posted by JERK DISEASE View Post
    He hasn't been in at least half of it, or wasn't the focus. The early stuff, like the fight with the puppet guy, the Pain stuff, the current stuff etc.
    You think that the Pein stuff was better than Shikamaru?

    But he has no conflict anymore. He's not an underdog.
    He got developed, he will have some use, he has been seen as the smartest guy, Kakashi treated him as a genius, he will be useful in the war, for sure.

    His arrogance and all that you mentioned MINUS the underdogness and sulleness equals smug. Those things are no longer interesting or charming. They've become in effect obnoxious.
    He was the undeground against Hidan
    But I get what you mean, he's not a charismatic character anymore.

    The fact that I don't recollect much about it isn't saying that I just forgot, it's saying that there was nothing about it that interested me whatsoever.
    I don't remember any fight more interesting.

    We knew about those all as early as the very start of Volume 2.
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/9/16/
    I mean what do you think the Chunnin exam was even stressing?? We had ninjas from all over the world there.
    Except we didn't know crap about them, we knew they existed, but aside from the Sand Village, we didn't know any specific Ninja or culture from any other Village in Part 1 (Unless you count the bloody exam of the Mist Village as something)

    Speaking of things I hate in Naruto, that Part 2 has made worse, particularly by stressing this aspect about Naruto of all poeople, pissing on it's finest moment...
    That annoyed me right at the beginning
    Need I to remind you that Naruto only won against Neji because of his Nine-Tails chakra? In fact, same thing can be said about every battle of Naruto.

    Likewise that missing nin was known by him. These are the the elites of the village. They are known throughout potentially. That's a huge leap to strongest in the world.
    I didn't say he was the strongest, but he's pretty high in the hierarchy, being one of the best Konoha Ninjas leads at least to Top 100 Ninjas in the world

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/93/07/

    If you can reread your fave fight, maybe you can reread the whole thing.
    Oh, come on, just because he was in the middle of a group doesn't mean he's "One of the many", he's been considered one of the strong guys, how many times did you see someone mentioning any of the other ninjas in that picture?
    Now compare it to how many times Kakashi has been spoken off by different guys everywhere, the sand village, the Akatsuki, Konoha, the guys in the exam, Orochimaru, etc etc
    Sure, maybe Kishimoto didn't plan him at the beginning as a really important guy, but there's no way to prove that he didn't. And there are plenty of tips that he was at least one of the greatest guys in Konoha, once again, with him being mentioned by Zabuza.

    I don't think you buy this.
    What tipped you off, the Ninja smile?

    Survive Deidara commiting suicide because he couldn't beat Sasuke otherwise.
    Fair enough, but Sasuke is very overpowered and an Uchiha, aside from Orochimaru and Naruto (but that guy shouldn't count, as he has a monster inside him), Deidara is the only guy without a sharingan that managed to drive Sasuke this far.

    Sudden vanishing is not overpowered.
    He can disappear in the ground and appear wherever he wants, that's pretty Overpowered. He also can't die and can divide himself in two.

    That still does not at all point to overpowered. He simply hasn't done anything really, we shouldn't discuss Zetsu one way or the other.
    But that quote was talking about Kisame

    Quote Originally Posted by Alen View Post
    I think Asuma's death may have been better than J-Man's.

    Partly because Hidan was a somewhat better character than Pain.
    Hidan was much better than Pein, for many reasons

    1) He wasn't "generic bishie guy who suffered through pain", he had a cult for his own god, that's also a little generic, but far less generic than Pein's character.

    2) Hidan actually had personality

    3) Hidan's powers are more interesting than Pein's powers, IMO, yes, even with the whole "6" different powers thing

  17. #157
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    Default Re: Naruto Piece: JuJu vs. TL-S

    I've seen people argue against this, but I never really felt Naruto truly was some sort of representation of raw hard work against inborn talent/genius as far as his fight with Neji went. Namely because of how he ultimately had to use the Kyuubi (a power source that was given to him) to win against Neji.

  18. #158
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    Default Re: Naruto Piece: JuJu vs. TL-S

    Yes, but the combat was clearly shown as a "Hard Work VS Born-Power", which is what annoyed me the most

  19. #159
    POE WUN BGR Robby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto Piece: JuJu vs. TL-S

    This is painful to watch. Give up SGRaaize. You've been absolutely outclassed in every inch of this discussion by Zephos and still haven't raised a single good point.

    I'd take over and counter your points myself, but you're just being embarrassing.

    Naruto is shit now and it will never be good again. The series is probably going to be over in about a year. Get used to it. Citing some of the worst arcs in your defense is not helping.

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  20. #160
    Language Terrorist taboo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto Piece: JuJu vs. TL-S

    someone mentioned deidara and that reminded me how much i miss deidara

    the one unexpectedly good thing to come out of part II

    deidara come home
    Hi MF

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