Berserk

[Brizan]

First time reading Berserk for me, was similar to yours xD On the second attempt, I closed the hell out of the window when Guts was with the old man and his daughter and they were killed. Plus Puck was getting on my nerves badly. Now I looooove Puck! :D
This was my real time reaction to Eclipse btw:

http://i48.tinypic.com/353c9sm.jpg

Ahahaa! I was tearing up and freaking out in real life! My best reaction was from the sex scene between Caska and Guts though. :U The fangirling for that, was out of the whack!

Wow lol this post made me laugh. I was much more shocked about the whole scene and just read it wide-eyed without saying a word... in fact that is how a read a lot a berserk, with little breaks here and there to enjoy life which was a necessity at certain points.

[RobbyBevard]

One satisfying part of the eclipse, that doesn't usually get noticed the first time, is later realizing that several of the monsters that killed Guts' friends and comrades, are the same ones he was killing in the first volume arc. The one that got Corkus is the one Guts is dealing with on the very first page of the story, and the one that got Pippin is the Count that he deals with at length over the first three volumes.

Obviously, the some of them are still unnacounted for and the godhand haven't even been touched, but... some satifaction in knowing the some have been avenged-ish.

[RPGJay]

Roshinu from the Lost Children arc also makes an early appearance prior to the Eclipse.

[Vanessa]

The 3 Apostles involved with the small massacre, that Rickert was saved from by Skull Knight, of Band of the Hawk members who were killed before the Eclipse were all the ones Guts killed off during his death seeker/has a small shred of decency left phase(that female apostle to Rosine) before focusing on Casca again.

The main apostle I want Guts to take out soon is Borkoff, the one who actually bit off his left arm.

[Aohige_AP]

Yeah, Guin saga, that's the one I couldn't remember!

Shame that series is so long (and unfinished!) that it'll never really make it here.

I'm not sure you'd want to read the latter parts of Guin Saga, Robby.
The author caught a bad case of fujoshi, and started to incorporate her doujin gay fantasies into canon with already established characters.

Still, awesome feat and I believe it's a world record for longest running novel written by a single author in the world.

[RobbyBevard]

As is I barely got through one peisode of the anime anyway, so even with access to Guin saga I dunno that I'd care for it. Just figure anything that runs *that* long has to have *something* going for it.

Maybe not anything for me, but *something*.

[Sonic Youth]

I'm not sure you'd want to read the latter parts of Guin Saga, Robby.
The author caught a bad case of fujoshi, and started to incorporate her doujin gay fantasies into canon with already established characters.

Still, awesome feat and I believe it's a world record for longest running novel written by a single author in the world.

[Sander]

I'm not sure you'd want to read the latter parts of Guin Saga, Robby.
The author caught a bad case of fujoshi, and started to incorporate her doujin gay fantasies into canon with already established characters.

Still, awesome feat and I believe it's a world record for longest running novel written by a single author in the world.

Does it involve the big titular musclebound leopard hero?

[Aohige_AP]

Does it involve the big titular musclebound leopard hero?

No, it doesn't. Thankfully Guin himself isn't involved in those.

The author of Guin Saga is an extremely talented author, and is also considered one of the founders of "boys love" or yaoi movement.
She practically established the genre back in 70s and early 80s.

She started writing Guin Saga gay doujinshi, and eventually decided to make some of those canon, thereby seeping its influence in to the actual novel series.
It's not like it turned into a complete BL novel or anything, it's just one element of it, but it did annoy a lot of readers who weren't expecting the change.

However, in her defense, one thing is for sure. Kaoru Kurimoto was, undeniably, a genius.
She could write fantasy novels, horror, mysteries, science fiction, etc, and had best sellers in every one of those genre.
She wrote FOUR HUNDRED novels in her 30 years of profession.
Heck, there were times when she published over 20 novels in a single year.
Just Guin Saga alone has over 150 volumes between both main and gaiden.
Also a certified master of various traditional Japanese instruments, including the shamisen.

Her death was a massive loss.
I wish some "lasier" authors could have even a fraction of dedication Kurimoto had.
(I'm looking at you, Satou Daisuke. Fucking Togashi of novel market.)

[Davy Jones]

When's the next chapter?

[Jekkie]

Sometime in the Fall.

[Khon]

Hmm... I actually never quite noticed this section about Berserk in this forum. I mainly come here for OP spoilers when Im out of things to do on tuesdays, so... quite a surprise. I've read some of the discussion that has been going around lately (mainly Xerxes' ban and people's feelings about the eclipse) and well, why not to share my views about berserk? You can pick and discuss any of the themes you like.

1. Griffith & Guts - I do like Griffith. Really do. Although I kind of despise his particular dream (to have a kingdom), I do admire how he plays and acts meticulously towards achieving the goal. His philosophy of the "dreams being the Gods men turn into martys for" resound deeply within me. His mind and personality are much more solid and balanced than, say, Gutts, who can be read easily, has poor temper control and has little complexity of its own, being quite the product of his environment/childhood. What is funny is that I do resemble him in his joy of sword-fighting and his character (lonely and deeply honest). Although I'd much rather fight with a Sabre like Griffith. That makes me weirdly cheering both sides through all the manga.

2. The eclipse - I cant understand how anyone would NOT choose what Griffith chose, were them in his situation. I can relate completely, and would have made the same choice at that point. Who would want to live the rest of their lives (having such a great potential, like Griffith) like an almost invalid adult that would need care at all times and would never ever achieve his so-longed dream? Besides, all the band of the mercenaries were there to fight for him, and would likely die for him in battle one day. And most of them were people poor of both mind and possessions, hunted everywhere for their association with his name. As it is said somewhere, were not for Caska, they would have already died before they could rescue Griffith. So why should he "save" them from the destiny they would have likely suffered anyway? Why should he consider those people (who had no dreams of their own, just the desire to follow him) superior to him? In his mind (and mine), they were all inferiors, and he was right to choose to pay their lives for his dream. What I do not like, however, is that Griffith seems too much strange in character afterwards. But I guess this is how the author could portray his turn into "Godhood". Oddly enough, all this is very alike Nieztche philosophy and LaVey (Satanism). Men to aim to be as a God. Now that is quite the goal. Worth dying and killing for? Quite so. Once again, characters like Voldemort (Harry Potter) and the son of Paul Muad'ib (Dune) slightly touch this theme as well.

3. The God Hand - Now this is a very interesting idea. However it leaves just so many questions... are they truly the strongest beings of this world? Then where does characters like the Witch and Elves get their "good" magic from? I kind of think that the Godhand, in theory, is over concepts like "good" and "evil", but it persistenly plays the evil tune since the apostles have almost always "evil" wishes (and the beherit grants its possessor a power beyond human so that he can satisfy them). We can see that when Griffith returns in "God made human" form. The apostles all feel joy and happiness near him, so much that they can even bypass their normal restrictions and hatred towards mankind. Not saying how he can get the spirits of the dead to say their goodbyes to their families and beloved ones (but where do they go from there? The mass of souls shown in the abyss? Elsewhere?)

4. Caska - She's one of the pitiest characters of the manga. Loves Griffith enough to even understand that he cant ever love her, and still remain at his side. Even after she notices that she's not that special as she was thinking (when Guts joins and Griffith seems way more interested in him than he ever was about her). Everything for her is Griffith, and when Guts try to break his "charm" and "control" over her, she still prefers to stay bound to him than to stay with someone that did actually love her and that she could also love. She shows then how weak-willed she is (though some might say it was concern over Griffith's mind were she to leave him too). The same concept plays on the eclipse, when she struggle a bit for Guts, but then surrender her body and mind to Griffith (willingly? Possibly, since she always dreamed of Griffith and to make love with him). She's, in short, the woman that knows that she can't ever have what she wants and has no strenght to pursue what joy she can have. Sad and pitiable. And after she loses her mind she stays even more pitiable than she was before, since now she cant even defend herself or do pretty much anything by herself.

5. The future -After they find the Isle of the Elves and Caska is cured, what then? Guts kind of already lost his need to avenge Griffith, and now he seems to be a God-Hero-King that rules a (seemingly) happy and large kingdom. What could Guts ever do to threaten him. being him surrounded by plenty of powerful apostles? And WHY would he do it, if he can live confortably and happy with Caska? That's the main question mark I have about Berserk. The only hint I see is that somehow, the world having changed the way it did, it disrupts some kind of balance and Guts or his friends become threatened by it, being the only solution to slay Griffith. Or something of the sort...

[Mog]

2. The eclipse - I cant understand how anyone would NOT choose what Griffith chose, were them in his situation.

Not to mince words, I think you're either a psychopath, heavily autistic, or you don't actually mean that and are really saying it just to be recalcitrant and to get attention.

I think you're wrong in your reading of the series in almost everything else you posted too, but your suggestion you would willingly kill (somewhat horrendously I might add) hundreds of people just so you wouldn't have to disabled kind of took priority over the rest.

[Unrequited]

Plus there's the fact that Griffith raped Caska, proving that his hero/god complex thing is self serving rather than altruistic. So there's not even a guarantee that him being a savior is truly a benefit for the people, further tipping the morality scale way away from his favor.

[m00n]

Guts kind of already lost his need to avenge Griffith, and now he seems to be a God-Hero-King that rules a (seemingly) happy and large kingdom. What could Guts ever do to threaten him. being him surrounded by plenty of powerful apostles? And WHY would he do it, if he can live confortably and happy with Caska?

Both Guts and Caska, still have that mark on them. There will hardly be a place that they live confortably and happy at. Also Griffith sees them as belonging to him. He wanted to sacrifice them in order to become a God, but he was never able to. Which means he must still be one step away from what he could be. He is like Cell from Dragonball after devouring C-17. I think once Griffith sees the need to get the rest of his power, he will actually look for Guts and Caska. He's not the type of guy that's content with getting 95% of what he wanted.

[Khon]

Both Guts and Caska, still have that mark on them. There will hardly be a place that they live confortably and happy. Also Griffith sees them as belonging to him. He wanted to sacrifice them in order to become a God, but he was never able to. Which means he must still be one step away from what he could be. He ist like Cell from Dragonball after devouring C-17. I think once Griffith sees the need to get the rest of his power, he will actually look for Guts and Caska. He's not the type of guy that's content with getting 95% of what he wanted.

- The elven island is possibly a place they wouldnt be bothered, if it's so powerful as it is said.

-The only thing Griffith wants is a kingdom. Killing the sacrifices was just a mean to that end. Plus, he already proved he does not care about killing them, when he faced Guts and Caska after he was reborn. He could've killed both of them. Yet he didnt.

- I dont agree that he is at 95%. What was necessary for that transformation was the WILLINGLINESS to sacrifice those people, not the fact that they were sacrificed or not. That part was up to the apostles, which failed in killing those two. What matters most to the "deal" is to change the mind of the subject (in this case, Griffith), not exactly to kill sacrifices. In my opinion Griffith is at 100% and it was never stated otherwise in the series.

Plus there's the fact that Griffith raped Caska, proving that his hero/god complex thing is self serving rather than altruistic. So there's not even a guarantee that him being a savior is truly a benefit for the people, further tipping the morality scale way away from his favor.

Griffith raped Caska since that was a way he found to convince himself that he was, once again, above Guts (as oposed to below him, a feeling he struggled with since Guts left him). It was less about the rape and more like a post-traumatic catharsis treatment to let his mind finally become able to consider himself worthy and regain his pride and self-confidence. Plus he felt guilty about Guts saving him from prison and envy of his power and that all Guts' wishes would become true (he would lead the band of the hawk, he was extremely strong, he would be able to love and stay with caska). What better way to remove the guilt from his mind but proving himself so superior to that creature that all guilt/envy lose its meaning? Guilt/Envy is felt among people that consider themselves at least equally worthy. You dont feel guilt/envy of microbes or little creatures you do not consider worthy of being your equal. Most people dont feel guilt/envy of animals they kill or trees they cut (supposing it's legal or "necessary"). In short, "Gods" do not feel guilt/envy towards men, since they arent at the same level or worthiness. Simply put, Griffith wanted to FEEL himself like a God, and not "rape Caska". That was just a way available at that moment. If Guts wasnt alive, he might not have even made that. Or made it in a completely different way. On the other hand, if Caska wasnt alive, he would definitely have made some other things to humiliate Guts so badly that he could regain his pride and self-confidence once again.

Not to mince words, I think you're either a psychopath, heavily autistic, or you don't actually mean that and are really saying it just to be recalcitrant and to get attention.

I think you're wrong in your reading of the series in almost everything else you posted too, but your suggestion you would willingly kill (somewhat horrendously I might add) hundreds of people just so you wouldn't have to disabled kind of took priority over the rest.

It's my honest opinion. Killing is horrendous not matter what kind or form it is done, so no worries there. They didnt seem to have been tortured (except for "almost" Caska), just killed anyway.

And I already offered my line of reasoning. It's all about perception of reality. Griffith was obviously superior in pretty much every aspect (both mind and body) than everyone else in his "band". His "band" only wish was to follow him. They WOULD have died earlier, were fate a little less kind. In fact, the sole reason they all didnt die was probably directly because they were needed as sacrifices for Griffith all along. Destiny is quite a heavy theme in the manga. So you could think they were just "ghosts" looking for a place to finally die (which was just the impression you had when Guts finally returns and see their encampment).

Think: if they were completely surrounded by a huge army just before the Eclipse happened, wouldnt they die? Would that change anything in your point of view of the inevitability of their death? Because that's exactly how I see them. Surrounded and pretty much ready to die at any moment of the inumerable raids they suffered through those years without Griffith. So, in that way, Griffith offered what was pretty much due and inescapable (their death) for something which was a bonus and could change things and make him able to achieve his dream (his ascension to godhood).

[Aaronrules380]

You do realize one of the main themes about berserk and huge morals is the fight against destiny and the inevitable, right? They were willing to fight for Griffith because they trusted him, and he betrayed that trust. He revealed himself to not be the type of man they had thought he was. You can say they'd die anyways, but how they die is still important as well

[Cyan D. Funk]

Every minute Casca and Guts remain alive is another middle finger towards Griffith, the rest of the Godhand, fate, and even the Idea of Evil itself.

[Nekketsu]

Every minute Casca and Guts remain alive is another middle finger towards Griffith, the rest of the Godhand, fate, and even the Idea of Evil itself.

This, exactly this.

[Mog]

Griffith was obviously superior in pretty much every aspect (both mind and body) than everyone else in his "band".

I could refute all your other points, point out how they're all based on a reading of the story that's completely irrelevant to the actual experience and choices of the characters themselves, point out how inane the reasoning is of ''they might possibly die, why not kill them so I won't have to live in a wheelchair'' and put a lot of time into dismantling your arguments, but really all I need to do is quote this sentence.

Because if you're actually going to say stuff like that it's not like people need me to point out what's wrong with you.