What do you think of the way women are portrayed in OP?

[kouch_lee]

This is a horrible generalization of DB's women and completely wrong to boot.

I can't even wrap my mind around the fact you didn't mention Bulma. Probably because her character absolutely destroys your point. She is smart, strong-willed, is not a fanservice tool and the story wouldn't even exist without her.

And I don't see what #18 being an android has to do with anything. 1) She wasn't even an android, she was a cyborg and 2) She completely humiliated Vegeta's pride in a highly entertaining fight in the middle of a drab and boring arc. That's not what a conservative shonen writer would do with a female character.

And I'm not even saying Toriyama isn't sexist. He is. But Dragon Ball isn't.

Bulma tried to brive her way out of trouble via showing her underwear. And the "don't hit me cause I'm cute" card. And the bratty girl who is always complaining card. And panty shots. And not-panty shots.
Curiously, during Z she, ehmmmm, "manned up", and in the future she is directly top tier material. Fucking time machine, that's the most broken thing in the whole DB. Anyways.
I'm a A-18 fan, but the fact that the only female character to fight during Z is a cyborg (in my country it was named A N D R O I D 1 8, but wathever) is there. But again, I'm a DB fanatic, Really, but having 3 female fighter in such a long series, with 2 of them NEVER getting to even throw ki blasts in a series where Yamcha and Chaotzu could spam them, it's a fact and it's there. And it's a 150% fighting manga, so except Bulma who is always there due to her inventions (and I've already given credit to her Z portrayal), the other girls can't really do much- hell, Videl couldn't even F L Y at the "same level" as someone like Kibito. Fly. Not fight. Fly. "You guys fly so fast I can't even open my eyes".
And do I have to bother to remember how A-18 was downgraded to the point that base Goten and base Trunks fighting in the weirdest of ways (one being an upper body part and the other a lower body part) were enough to give 18 a run for her money?

@ Jerkdisease; No, I haven't forgotten about ChiChi nor Videl. Chi Chi did realy well during the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai. Then she got defeated by a wind strike. Then she became an annoying housemaid. Videl rocked during the first institute arc, and I won't argue that she tried until the end. I sure didn't give her enough credit, and for that I'm sorry. She's actualy a good female character.

Again, I loved the fuck out of DB for what it was, and it's there as one of the mangas that has marked me the most, but OBJECTIVELY analysing it, it is sexist, at least in the sense of NUMBERS. That's it. Nothing else. And OP is above that, yes, but not MILES above that. Again, nothing wrong with it.

Also, 100% right on Schierke; I never thought I could care about a 12 year old girl, but she is definitely one of Berserk's strengths. Such a good character.

And if you mean Caska and . . .well. She was badass before that.


PD: Not to make this overly long, but just for the record: Unnecessarily badass female DOES NOT = Good female character. Maybe I gave that impression with my post, but it's not quite like this. Just take as an example some of Angelina Jolie's roles in some of her more questionable movies, and you have the reason why. Just adding this. Out of the blue. I'm drunk. That's it, good night!

[Louis cypher]

Why are people talking about Dragon Ball instead of OP now?

[JERK DISEASE]

In dragonball all strong women are there so they can get married to z fighter and produce strong z fighter kids. they're the baby-makers.
otherwise they're dumb sex objects like goten's girlfriend and master roshi's housecleaner.

Do you take pleasure in making dumb posts or does it come naturally?

Acting like Toriyama planned any of these characters as future wives is hilarious in of itself. But you fall DIrectly into the age old sloppy ass feminism trap of being sexist yourself.

What you doin'? You're essentially taking these nice characters, then because they got married eventually, you turn them inside out and call them awful.
So married women are stripped of all other qualities for that fact. How progressive of you.

Also since when did Goten have a girlfriend??

in one piece women are great plot device that cries out "I'm kidnapped" or "come help me!" or "I'm gonna be raped" in thriller bark, cp9, movie10, alabasta, human auction, and so on.

Name a crewmate Luffy didn't help extract from dire circumstances. Then explain why when it happens to Nami and Robin, both with intense self sacrifice on the line being the true reason for their straits, Nami to save her village, Robin to save the Strawhats, far from damsel in distress.
That you would break down something as emotionally complex as Nami's brutal selflessness, that Oda made sure to explore in full detail, that this one young woman was holding an entire town on her back for most of her life.... that you would simplify it as such?

Throw in the fucking feminist hat, if all you're capable of is trampling on good women to squeeze out a half assed condemnation of something.

yes, there are strong independent women like dandan, shankky, and bellemere, but they are limited and have small screen time. (but at least they're there, right?)

And Nami and Robin and Vivi and

[JERK DISEASE]

Bulma tried to brive her way out of trouble via showing her underwear. And the "don't hit me cause I'm cute" card. And the bratty girl who is always complaining card. And panty shots. And not-panty shots.
Curiously, during Z she, ehmmmm, "manned up", and in the future she is directly top tier material. Fucking time machine, that's the most broken thing in the whole DB. Anyways.

Bulma was always really smart, a genius inventor who by as early as the 22nd Budokai was freed of fanservice status.

@ Jerkdisease; No, I haven't forgotten about ChiChi nor Videl. Chi Chi did realy well during the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai. Then she got defeated by a wind strike.

ChiChi was fighting GOKU.

[kouch_lee]

When Yamcha was defeated by a wind strike, I felt it was the biggest humiliation ever, regardless that his opponent ended up winning the tournament. Isn't this the same case?

Anyways; don't tell me you don't prefer kung fu fighting chichi to annoying mom chichi? I know the direction DB had already taken by that time made it practicaly impossible for her to have even a fight during the rest of the series, but damn. . .

@Louiscypher; it's never a bad thing to talk about DB. It's OP's legitimate father, isn't it?

[Louis cypher]

@Louiscypher; it's never a bad thing to talk about DB. It's OP's legitimate father, isn't it?

*Shrug* No matter how hard I have tried I can't get past the first volume of DB. I hate the art, I hate the story, and I find the characters mind numbingly boring. Then again that's just the first volume, I'm sure it improves.

[Hiroy]

It's still great to talk about DB. Just... move aside.

[Louis cypher]

It's still great to talk about DB. Just... move aside.

As you command .

[1000sunny]

In current and past Manga I have read (were the majority of the main characters are not girls, see Claymore) only One Piece and maybe (can't believe I'm saying this) Fairy Tail have actually used women characters as actually relevant and useful to the story. Anyone who thinks that DBZ women were anything other than Saiyen Baby-Makers and annoying attempts at comic relief is either kidding themselves or needs to read the series again.

While OP and FT use lots of fanservice both series have women who are not only useful but also strong. See Erza or Hancock...in both Naruto and Bleach you have women who are almost forced into being relevant or strong...

[Kaiolino]

Comic relief lol xD

[AlucarDraculA]

@ Louis Cypher
What I did was watch(did not read the manga) Dbz than went back to dragonball so I already liked the characters before the story started.

[JERK DISEASE]

When Yamcha was defeated by a wind strike, I felt it was the biggest humiliation ever, regardless that his opponent ended up winning the tournament. Isn't this the same case?

No not really. And any shock there was was because one of our main cast was walloped by what seemed like some random old man.

By that point Goku had killed a ancient evil demon king and trained literally with god. Nor was Chi Chi with any of our heroes, nor was she part of the main cast at this point, and there was no reason for anyone watching to be shocked.

Anyways; don't tell me you don't prefer kung fu fighting chichi to annoying mom chichi? I know the direction DB had already taken by that time made it practicaly impossible for her to have even a fight during the rest of the series, but damn. . .

I prefer Mom ChiChi to the completely blank direction likewise males like Tenshinhan took after they became combat useless.

[JERK DISEASE]

In current and past Manga I have read (were the majority of the main characters are not girls, see Claymore) only One Piece and maybe (can't believe I'm saying this) Fairy Tail have actually used women characters as actually relevant and useful to the story. Anyone who thinks that DBZ women were anything other than Saiyen Baby-Makers and annoying attempts at comic relief is either kidding themselves or needs to read the series again.

While OP and FT use lots of fanservice both series have women who are not only useful but also strong. See Erza or Hancock...in both Naruto and Bleach you have women who are almost forced into being relevant or strong...

Oh hey, it's a reworded version of a post multiple people have mercilessly bitch-slapped to death already!

I'm so glad you decided we needed to hear it again! Thanks!

[Kaiolino]

Hilarious gag about Saiyan baby machines.

[WarshipArc]

While OP and FT use lots of fanservice both series have women who are not only useful but also strong. See Erza or Hancock...in

Do not compare One Piece's fan service to Fairy Tails. Never compare One Piece's fan service to Fairy Tails.

[Reyairia]

While Fairy Tail does have a shit-ton of fanservice, and it isn't greatly written, I really have to admire how strong Erza is. There aren't a lot of female OP characters as strong as she is or at least as blatantly willing to cut their arms off.
So while the fanservice pisses me off, she kinda balances that quite a bit.

[kouch_lee]

No not really. And any shock there was was because one of our main cast was walloped by what seemed like some random old man.

By that point Goku had killed a ancient evil demon king and trained literally with god. Nor was Chi Chi with any of our heroes, nor was she part of the main cast at this point, and there was no reason for anyone watching to be shocked.



I prefer Mom ChiChi to the completely blank direction likewise males like Tenshinhan took after they became combat useless.

Fair enough. Good points you have in there.

[Ringleader]

While Fairy Tail does have a shit-ton of fanservice, and it isn't greatly written, I really have to admire how strong Erza is. There aren't a lot of female OP characters as strong as she is or at least as blatantly willing to cut their arms off.
So while the fanservice pisses me off, she kinda balances that quite a bit.

erza is my favourite female character from any anime/manga

[Havoc]

Compared to other mangas One Piece is doing just fine in the female section. As JERK said you really should not reduce Nami or Robin to damsels in distress simply because they were in situations where there required help from their friends. Heck, that's a major theme of One Piece: to count on your nakama in times of crisis. Besides Usopp or Chopper often require help as well yet I do not see anyone complaining about it.

Also both Robin and Nami are essential to the crew in their own ways and while they might not be the best fighters they are both independent and strong-willed women who know how to handle difficult situations. Nami's fight against Ms. Doublefinger comes to mind here.

[Skitsofrenika]

Compared to other mangas One Piece is doing just fine in the female section. As JERK said you really should not reduce Nami or Robin to damsels in distress simply because they were in situations where there required help from their friends. Heck, that's a major theme of One Piece: to count on your nakama in times of crisis. Besides Usopp or Chopper often require help as well yet I do not see anyone complaining about it.

Also both Robin and Nami are essential to the crew in their own ways and while they might not be the best fighters they are both independent and strong-willed women who know how to handle difficult situations. Nami's fight against Ms. Doublefinger comes to mind here.

Hear Hear!
I couldn't agree more~!