What do you think of the way women are portrayed in OP?

[Miss White day]

As long as there are no faux action girls I'm okay with how women are in one piece. Thought I would love it if they stopped looking like they were born in Long ring long island. Such long and narrow waist you have~.

I can jokingly say now that I the Nami/Kalifa fanservice parts of the fight are the reasons we didn't get that Ussop and Garp interaction in the whole Water7/Lobby arc. XD

[Legendary Beast]

I think that the roles of the women in One Piece are, in general, fair. You have to remember that the main subject of One Piece is piracy. In history, female pirates were almost nonexistent. In One Piece, there aren't any women in crews like Buggy's, Shanks', and Kuro's. Realistically, this is what I would expect. Considering this is a pirate manga, I think that Oda's portrayal of women is generous. Also, it's really only natural to be more inclined to make characters of your own gender. You can pick up a random book in a bookstore and nine times out of ten the main character will be the same gender as the author. I like how Nami and Robin have such distinct personalities, how Nami is tough and in charge and Robin is smart with a weird sense of humor. Also, the fanservice with Nami doesn't really bother me, because Nami always took advantage of her sexuality... even when she was a flat-chested, cutesy girl. Remember when she 'stripped' to trick Johnny and Yosaku off the ship?

As for the strength of the women, Both Nami and Robin can take down large groups of people at a time, and there's a female Yonkou, Supernova, and Shichibukai. I think Robin could hold her own against anyone in the crew except the monster trio, and there's Usopp and Chopper on the same level as Nami (it's not like she's the weakest of them). Amazon Lily, too, showed an entire kingdom of strong women who don't rely on men. Altogether, I think that there is nothing unereasonable. Stereotyping is hard to avoid sometimes (like people saying that Japanese comics are sexist because that's just how the Japanese are. Nobody meant to be racist or anything, but if you look at it just right you can see it there), because human beings naturally make connections between ideas. Ask anyone out there to picture a girl, and the first image that pops into mind is a chick with long hair and boobs. That's just how people are.

[Aldrich]

I think they're fine

Most of them are likable and interesting characters, and I don't even agree about them supposedly looking the same

Body wise sure maybe, but the faces of some of the "attractive" girls are pretty different, as Oda isn't afraid to give some of them pretty distinctive noses, like with Robin or Tashigi for ex

Compare to Kishimoto's girls, there's virtually no difference in Tenten, Ino, Sakura and Hinata's facial features, and let's not even talk about their terrible, terrible personalities

Or Kubo's girls

lol Kubo

[boiga]

Hmm... let's make a point of dividing up this issue into a couple major themes involving women and see how one piece has evolved over the course of the series.

1. Fan Service: This is the most obvious change in the series. Nami has gone from petite to buxom and from casual attire to skimpier and skimpier outfits. Like Terek said, this wasn't even a minor element in the series until Alabasta and now it's a constant theme.

2. Violence against women: Oda seems to constantly avoid letting his characters do any harm whatsoever to attractive women. The lesson seems to be that beating ugly women is fine. Luffy beats fat alvida and the grotesque snake sisters, but refuses to attack the other amazons. Zoro beats down the butch miss monday, but won't fight Tashigi or Bonny. Sanji can't fight Kalifa or any woman. Usopp psychs out Perona instead of actively harming her.

Attractive women are sacrosanct in this manga and any abuse of them is considered the foulest of activities only performed by the worst of the worst villains (spandam, World nobles, arlong etc.) This chauvinism can be somewhat annoying because it makes fight matchups predictable and removes any potential for a boss level female enemy character.

3. Sexual power dimorphism: Kuina's statement that women in the one piece world have a glass ceiling of physical strength seems born out. Admittedly female power has improved after W7, but even to this point the strongest female characters in the series have gimmick fighting styles or use haki to make up for supposed deficiencies. Considering that the lanky zoro is one of the physically strongest characters in the series, gender body type issues really shouldn't have been relevant. I'm hoping this improves further with the introduction of Big Mama and the potential revelation of Luffy's mom.

4. The role of women in the crew: In this area, Oda excelled. Nami and Robin are well developed characters with independent goals, strong wills, and have important responsibilities on the ship. In emergency situations it is Nami who gives the orders. Robin is generally the most merrily sadistic member on board. Neither cooks or cleans or has any other position of female subordination. These aren't the traditional female healer class support characters who make bento boxes and have virgin/mother/whore personalities. Kudos to Oda on that. However, with the seven to two ratio it is getting to be a little testosteroni on the sunny. I'm seriously hoping the next crewmate is a goofy unattractive fishwoman to even the balance.

So you guys have discussed fan service and female power levels to an extent, but what's the consensus on violence towards women? Is nami doomed to fight the token female on each enemy crew over and over again? Can luffy get away with punching a woman like he did to coby in order to further his goals, or would that disgust the fan base? Are we ever going to see a strong swordswoman?

[SingingThroughTheStorm]

I think the violence towards women isn't really there. Luffy didn't hurt the Snake sisters. He told them that even if they were going to try and kill him, he doesn't want to kill them. Luffy isn't swayed by beauty, when he told Boa he was angry towards her, he meant it. Usopp was going to use any form of fighting against Perona. But when someone sticks their hand inside you and says they could crush you heart, most people wouldn't put up much of a fight.
FullBody smacked the lady he was taking out at Baratie, but Fullbody isn't a horrible person.

[y2kyle89]

Can luffy get away with punching a woman like he did to coby in order to further his goals, or would that disgust the fan base?

He decked Ms. Valentine without much fanfare.

[Vongola_Boss_XI]

Obviously it's not across the board, but there ARE real physiological differences between men and women - one of which being average muscle strength in men. Science, not sexism.

Haki and fighting technique though are valid reasons to make female characters equally powerful of course.

[misshu]

He decked Ms. Valentine without much fanfare.

did he smack vivi, too, when he made that distinction between fighting crocodile vs stopping the rebels?

op guys are fine; op girls are fine. let the fine young men reading manga in their pre-dating years grow up wondering if chicks in halter tops might deck them if they misbehave.

[Gliblord]

Hmm... let's make a point of dividing up this issue into a couple major themes involving women and see how one piece has evolved over the course of the series.

1. Fan Service: This is the most obvious change in the series. Nami has gone from petite to buxom and from casual attire to skimpier and skimpier outfits. Like Terek said, this wasn't even a minor element in the series until Alabasta and now it's a constant theme.

2. Violence against women: Oda seems to constantly avoid letting his characters do any harm whatsoever to attractive women. The lesson seems to be that beating ugly women is fine. Luffy beats fat alvida and the grotesque snake sisters, but refuses to attack the other amazons. Zoro beats down the butch miss monday, but won't fight Tashigi or Bonny. Sanji can't fight Kalifa or any woman. Usopp psychs out Perona instead of actively harming her.

Attractive women are sacrosanct in this manga and any abuse of them is considered the foulest of activities only performed by the worst of the worst villains (spandam, World nobles, arlong etc.) This chauvinism can be somewhat annoying because it makes fight matchups predictable and removes any potential for a boss level female enemy character.

3. Sexual power dimorphism: Kuina's statement that women in the one piece world have a glass ceiling of physical strength seems born out. Admittedly female power has improved after W7, but even to this point the strongest female characters in the series have gimmick fighting styles or use haki to make up for supposed deficiencies. Considering that the lanky zoro is one of the physically strongest characters in the series, gender body type issues really shouldn't have been relevant. I'm hoping this improves further with the introduction of Big Mama and the potential revelation of Luffy's mom.

4. The role of women in the crew: In this area, Oda excelled. Nami and Robin are well developed characters with independent goals, strong wills, and have important responsibilities on the ship. In emergency situations it is Nami who gives the orders. Robin is generally the most merrily sadistic member on board. Neither cooks or cleans or has any other position of female subordination. These aren't the traditional female healer class support characters who make bento boxes and have virgin/mother/whore personalities. Kudos to Oda on that. However, with the seven to two ratio it is getting to be a little testosteroni on the sunny. I'm seriously hoping the next crewmate is a goofy unattractive fishwoman to even the balance.

So you guys have discussed fan service and female power levels to an extent, but what's the consensus on violence towards women? Is nami doomed to fight the token female on each enemy crew over and over again? Can luffy get away with punching a woman like he did to coby in order to further his goals, or would that disgust the fan base? Are we ever going to see a strong swordswoman?

I agree with all of this. Very well said.

The thing that bothers me most is not the skimpy outfits (girls should be allowed to wear whatever the fuck they want without arbitrarily being called "slutty" for it) or even the fanservice (apart from truly uncomfortable scenes like the Absalom near rape, which freaked me out but could be forgiven as just going with the horror trope). The thing that bothers me most is the arbitrary power ceiling and the lack of serious fighting (i.e., bruising and clobbering) for cute/attractive girls.

The base strength difference between girls and boys in real life is not that massive. There are plenty of girls who are born stronger than the average dude. In a fictional series where even lanky people like Zoro can lift houses, there should be nothing stopping girls who train just as hard from doing the same. At that scale of strength there should be no appreciable difference. I mean, if KUREHA can kick through walls then there should be no limiter.

I choose to interpret the Kuina thing in either of two ways:

a) In-story explanation: Koushiro (Kuina's dad) was well-meaning but just wrong/mistaken/ignorant, like most people in the OP world regarding gender equality stuff (it's still a chauvinistic world). If Kuina had really been encouraged she may well have ended up the world's strongest swordsperson.

b) Out-of-story explanation: Oda hadn't really known beforehand just how ridiculously house-liftingly strong his characters would get until Arlong Park rolled around. The arc before the not-particularly-strong Ghin and Pearl beat the shit out of Sanji; next arc he can suddenly kick through walls and beat the shit out of karate fishmen with no explanation apart from "he's just strong." In the Buggy arc Luffy was stuck in a cage he could have easily busted his way out of going by story standards now.

As for pretty girls never getting injured, it's not that I just want to see girls get beat up, but I don't want them to be condescendingly spared from injury either (one of the reasons I liked the scene where Ms. Doublefinger shoots a spike through Nami's foot, and Nami keeps fighting, that was badass). Like I said in the "What Would You Like to See" thread, if Luffy fought an equally strong, not hideous female antagonist his age SERIOUSLY (i.e. no lovetaps, serious blows) and she returned the favor blow for blow I would be absolutely ecstatic. Sadly it probably won't happen--but it will happen in my ficcery.

[Skadi]

Luckily Enel does not give a shit about gender, and attacked Robin, Zoro, Laki, Wiper, etc. the same

[Chicken]

I wish Ace had worn a shirt more often. The slut.

[Gliblord]

Luckily Enel does not give a shit about gender, and attacked Robin, Zoro, Laki, Wiper, etc. the same

Another reason Eneru is awesome--he's an equal opportunity heartless bastard.

[Gliblord]

I wish Ace had worn a shirt more often. The slut.

Another reason calling OP women "slutty" or whatever for skimpy/revealing clothing is stupid. There's just as much such fanservice for guys like Ace.

[Reyairia]

Another reason calling OP women "slutty" or whatever for skimpy/revealing clothing is stupid. There's just as much such fanservice for guys like Ace.

Having a shirtless male =/= fanservice for girls.
Oda said so himself that he was never gonna cater to his female audience, and as such never put any romance in.

Or are you telling me that Blackbeard being shirtless is fanservice? It's not. If Lola were shown in a bikini it wouldn't be fanservice.

And don't say Franky because Franky's pervertedness is a complete joke thing. He may appeal to some girls but he isn't an attractive character as a whole.
One Piece has very few actual guys in that category, and if you compare the male characters to ones like in shojo manga they're pretty ugly in comparison.

[sanji499]

They are usually beautiful, smart, complex, relevant to the storyline, they have style. I heart them.

Only complaint, I wish Tashigi receives more development in part 2 because she has a lot of potential. I hope she will no be overshadowed by the supernovas who are not really relevant to the plot (they were added at the last minute) and not very interesting. I wish to see more of Hina as well.

[Baldulf]

There isn't anything wrong with fanservice as long as the characters remain interesting and funny.

Robin always dressed as a slut and her role on the ship is as opossed to the typical female companion of the main hero that could be considered almost a parody, but she is still one of the most interesting characters on the manga.

But I admit that Nami overhaul is a bit too much, she is so sexualized now that there is little left of the old character.

[Gliblord]

Having a shirtless male =/= fanservice for girls.
Oda said so himself that he was never gonna cater to his female audience, and as such never put any romance in.

Or are you telling me that Blackbeard being shirtless is fanservice? It's not. If Lola were shown in a bikini it wouldn't be fanservice.

And don't say Franky because Franky's pervertedness is a complete joke thing. He may appeal to some girls but he isn't an attractive character as a whole.
One Piece has very few actual guys in that category, and if you compare the male characters to ones like in shojo manga they're pretty ugly in comparison.

Shirtless (non-Blackbeard) males are absolutely fanservice for girls. Even if they may not have been meant as such, girls totally nosebleed over that stuff. Don't tell me they don't. You don't need straight romance to appeal to girls, loads of female fans will just make subtext out of everything anyway. Half the fanart made by girls is Ace or Marco or even Crocodile or even do Flamingo shirtless.

I will concede that I overstated how much female fanservice there was though, so sorry.

[Tamaki Kawazoe]

It could be worse if you ever seen To aru Majustu No index or Bakuman or black cat. They literrally treat the women like shit. In some of them the main character just blatantly smacks the bull shit out of them. In bakuman the moms opinion is so meaningless.

This is what I get for only reading the title and not the actually post...oh well the fan service isn't nearly as bad as some other shows.

Black Cat? women arent treated bad in Black Cat.

[Tamaki Kawazoe]

Remember that it's a comic for 14 year old boys.

And if your upset about chest size in this manga, Fairy Tail would like some words with you. There's fanservice taken too far...

Really? iv never seen fairy tail so i dont know anything about it.

[Reyairia]

Shirtless (non-Blackbeard) males are absolutely fanservice for girls. Even if they may not have been meant as such, girls totally nosebleed over that stuff. Don't tell me they don't. You don't need straight romance to appeal to girls, loads of female fans will just make subtext out of everything anyway. Half the fanart made by girls is Ace or Marco or even Crocodile or even do Flamingo shirtless.

I will concede that I overstated how much female fanservice there was though, so sorry.

There's an enormous difference between a character doing something that's fanservice and a character that just so happens to appeal to girls. Nothing Doflamingo or Crocodile ever do is fanservicey - same with Marco and Ace. The anime will sometimes add extra fanservice to appeal to girls, I admit, like how they completely gay-ified Marco, etc. but that was never anything Oda put there in the first place.