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Thread: What do you think of the way women are portrayed in OP?

  1. #881

    Default Re: What do you think of the way women are portrayed in OP?

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKingJC View Post
    Well, Zoro was attacked by Miss Monday. She nailed him in the head with her brass knuckles.
    When push comes to shove, Zoro has to defend himself.
    And Enel attacked Robin first. She didn't even get a chance to attack him yet.
    Well, Miss Monday attacked Zoro, but Robin threatened to kill Enel. http://www.mangareader.net/103-2380-...apter-273.html

    And well, Enel was attacked too. Not by Robin, but by Wiper (and they acted as a group there). Sorry, but this is what you get when you bitch with someone miles ahead of you.

    And as to defending yourself...Zoro didn't need to squeeze the shit out of Miss Monday like that. It is exactly the same situation - 2 extremely one-sided "clashes" against women. It is just funny that a line like "she is a woman" comes from someone like Zoro, who had absolutely no problem doing this:

    http://www.mangareader.net/103-2215-...apter-108.html

    I mean come on, if you look closer you can even see Zoro's handprint on her face. How disturbingly violent is this please, getting your head squeezed till foam comes out of your mouth?

    But look where Zoro had mercy and only used the back of his swords to "defend himself":

    http://www.mangareader.net/103-2215-...apter-108.html

    A kid and a good looking (at least normal looking) female.

    Spoiler:

    Gyaaaaaaah!
    Last edited by Jabra; February 24th, 2012 at 04:27 PM.


  2. #882

    Default Re: What do you think of the way women are portrayed in OP?

    I didn't think to read so deep into those scenes considering they were really brief and ms. Monday was a antagonistic character and Robin a protagonist. I think some of these complaints here are really overdoing it. Though you could look even deeper in that case and say that since Whiskey Peak Zoro has really softened up as a character and grown to care for his crewmates more. Yes, I'm aware he said "She's a woman", but I still think that he jumped to her defense because he wasn't so suspicous of her anymore.
    Last edited by Kizuchan; February 24th, 2012 at 04:26 PM.

  3. #883

    Default Re: What do you think of the way women are portrayed in OP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kizuchan View Post
    I didn't think to read so deep into those scenes considering they were really brief and ms. Monday was a antagonistic character and Robin a protagonist. I think some of these complaints here are really overdoing it. Though you could look even deeper in that case and say that since Whiskey Peak Zoro has really softened up as a character and grown to care for his crewmates more. Yes, I'm aware he said "She's a woman", but I still think that he jumped to her defense because he wasn't so suspicous of her anymore.
    But I don't understand the Nakama argument, wether he cares for his crewmates or Robin in particular isn't the point. I don't doubt that he jumped to her defense because she is his crewmate, not in the slightest. I also believe that the whole Skypiea arc was meant to strengthen then bond between Zoro and Robin, since Zoro was basically the only one who still had trouble with her joining the crew.

    It is all about Zoro lecturing Enel that he just attacked a woman.


  4. #884

    Default Re: What do you think of the way women are portrayed in OP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabra View Post
    But I don't understand the Nakama argument, wether he cares for his crewmates or Robin in particular isn't the point. I don't doubt that he jumped to her defense because she is his crewmate, not in the slightest. I also believe that the whole Skypiea arc was meant to strengthen then bond between Zoro and Robin, since Zoro was basically the only one who still had trouble with her joining the crew.

    It is all about Zoro lecturing Enel that he just attacked a woman.
    Well, Zoro refused to kill Tashigi. Then again, that might have been because she looks like Kuina, not cause she's a woman. Zoro really hasn't had any female opponents who isn't Tashigi, so we don't know how he'd react. That or Oda really was being sexist, I don't know.

    Edit: Ah, I totally didn't take Kuina into consideration even though I just mentioned her. He respected her after all. So yeah, that might have been a little sexist/out of Zoro's character, but not that big of a deal, imo because it's not lingered on.
    Last edited by Kizuchan; February 24th, 2012 at 05:14 PM.

  5. #885

    Default Re: What do you think of the way women are portrayed in OP?

    Zoro doesn't seem to believe in the "man is stronger than woman" cliche either seeing as he called it BS when Kunai brought it up in the past. But I don't think it was out of character for him to lecture Enel about attacking Robin though. It seemed to be more of a "honor" thing for him attacking a woman brutally without real reason, rather than the sexism Sanji goes by.

  6. #886

    Default Re: What do you think of the way women are portrayed in OP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabra View Post
    Well, Miss Monday attacked Zoro, but Robin threatened to kill Enel. http://www.mangareader.net/103-2380-...apter-273.html
    Threatening to attack someone and actually attacking them are two completely different things.

    And well, Enel was attacked too. Not by Robin, but by Wiper (and they acted as a group there). Sorry, but this is what you get when you bitch with someone miles ahead of you.
    Except this is Enel we're talking about. He probably would have killed them all if they refused his request to eliminate one of their own. And they did.
    You can't compare Zoro, a man who only fights when he has to, to Enel, a psychotic man with a God complex who wouldn't hesitate to kill anyone who doesn't agree with him.

    And as to defending yourself...Zoro didn't need to squeeze the shit out of Miss Monday like that. It is exactly the same situation - 2 extremely one-sided "clashes" against women. It is just funny that a line like "she is a woman" comes from someone like Zoro, who had absolutely no problem doing this:

    http://www.mangareader.net/103-2215-...apter-108.html

    I mean come on, if you look closer you can even see Zoro's handprint on her face. How disturbingly violent is this please, getting your head squeezed till foam comes out of your mouth?

    But look where Zoro had mercy and only used the back of his swords to "defend himself":

    http://www.mangareader.net/103-2215-...apter-108.html

    A kid and a good looking (at least normal looking) female.


    Gyaaaaaaah!
    I'm sorry, but this is One Piece. Squeezing someone's skull until they lose consciousness isn't even the worst of the things they could happen to someone. It's pretty tame in comparison. Hell, Zoro could have taken out his swords and cut her if he wanted to.

  7. #887

    Default Re: What do you think of the way women are portrayed in OP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabra View Post
    But I don't understand the Nakama argument, wether he cares for his crewmates or Robin in particular isn't the point. I don't doubt that he jumped to her defense because she is his crewmate, not in the slightest. I also believe that the whole Skypiea arc was meant to strengthen then bond between Zoro and Robin, since Zoro was basically the only one who still had trouble with her joining the crew.

    It is all about Zoro lecturing Enel that he just attacked a woman.
    Dude have you ever read One Piece? can you differentiate between a story and a characterization? a good writing and a bad one? 1 spur of moment of 1 character saying something like " you attacked a women" or "hit a women" is just a personality, a characterization. nothing more. and that comment is for his friend while at the same time we know that he had no problem hitting a woman if she's an enemy.

    I understand you guys just want to win an argument and willingly to do anything for it but please, think before you spout nonsense.

    "oh hey, Luffy the main protagonist only like to eat meat so Oda must really hate vegetarian".. see what I did there?

    i can't say anything if you just complaining about zoro is sexist and only hit ugly woman or whatever but saying Oda is sexist because of that is stupid when everybody that actually read One Piece rather than just trying to win an argument know that women in One Piece is very strong willed, independent and awesome.

    and as a human sometimes we have to accept something on who they are and treat them as they are. man is man, women is women. kids are kids. old people are old people. we cannot asked man to pregnant. we cannot bring our 10 years old daughter to men toilet when they want to pee. and One Piece is a good story. full with colorful characters, tons of personality and background. don't discredit it just because you want to win an argument. and you gave a very poor example too.

  8. #888

    Default Re: What do you think of the way women are portrayed in OP?

    I do feel that Zoro telling Enel off seemed a bit backwards in his normal ideology. But I don't think the Ms. Monday fight was too bad. He was being pretty sadistic that whole time anyways. Next chapter he hits Vivi by throwing Mr.9 at her lol. And he's not above saying harsh stuff to women either. He keeps getting called a demon by people for a reason.

    Oda doesn't really seem to hold back on the violence. Ms. Monday later gets clotheslined/exploded by Mr.5. And Luffy backhands Ms. Valentine off into the air. I don't really see a difference in how he handles fodder characters if they are male or female. But yes, Zoro lecturing Enel was out of place for him. It woulda been fine if he said my Nakama or whatever. I still think while we haven't seen too many top tiered female fighters, he does a good enough job doing right by them most of the time.

    ~My Harem, S-Rank~



  9. #889

    Default Re: What do you think of the way women are portrayed in OP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabra View Post
    Of course Zoro caught Robin because she is his nakama.
    But thats not the point: he judges Enel for hurting a woman, not his friend. He, who brutally knocked out a female himself chapters ago.

    The situation is exactly the same:

    Zoro fought a female enemy (Miss Monday) without hesitation.

    Enel fought a female enemy (Robin) without hesitation.

    Yet Zoro judges Enel for attacking a female. There is no other explanation other than "Miss Monday was too ugly to receive the female bonus".

    And as King Canon already said, when a beauty gets hurt its either for the purpose of making you hate the villain (omg, he hurt a woman!) or it isn't comparable to the fights against ugly females. Sending Miss Valentine fly (there wasn't even visible contact) or mildly punching Vivi isn't on the same level.
    ANd because I can't say it better than KC: "There was no gomu gomu gatling"
    And this is why I'm looking forward for the upcoming Big Mom fight. Big Mom is the epitome of ugliness, so I'm sure Oda won't be hesitant to make Luffy go Elephant Gun on her ass (sorry for the mental images).

    Really, before Jabra reminded me of the Zoro vs. Ms. Monday fight and Zoro lecturing Enel, I thought the whole violence against females was too ambiguous to really judge, but now I find the whole thing very suspicious...

    Luffy beating the crap out of Alvida with a named attack.

    Zoro torturing Ms. Monday, but lecturing Enel for hurting a (good-looking) woman.

    Luffy fighting only the ugly Boa Sisters (and after they become even uglier Human\Snake Hybrids, no less).

    Only bastards seriously hurt (good-looking) women (Spandam, Yama, Arlong, Enel).

    Not saying that this is definite proof that Oda is sexist when it comes to violence against females, but I'm having a hard time believing the opposite.

  10. #890
    Discovered Stowaway Jejune's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you think of the way women are portrayed in OP?

    Yeah, Zoro's line to Enel was conspicuously off; way to disrespect Kuina's memory.

    I've always wanted Oda to give a female-associated df to a male who has to cope with it, I mean come on, it's too convenient that only females get laundry/love/etc abilities. He could pull it off, and it'd be hilarious.

  11. #891
    Legendary Hero Juvarland Juvar's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you think of the way women are portrayed in OP?

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    And this is why I'm looking forward for the upcoming Big Mom fight. Big Mom is the epitome of ugliness, so I'm sure Oda won't be hesitant to make Luffy go Elephant Gun on her ass (sorry for the mental images).

    Really, before Jabra reminded me of the Zoro vs. Ms. Monday fight and Zoro lecturing Enel, I thought the whole violence against females was too ambiguous to really judge, but now I find the whole thing very suspicious...

    Luffy beating the crap out of Alvida with a named attack.

    Zoro torturing Ms. Monday, but lecturing Enel for hurting a (good-looking) woman.

    Luffy fighting only the ugly Boa Sisters (and after they become even uglier Human\Snake Hybrids, no less).

    Only bastards seriously hurt (good-looking) women (Spandam, Yama, Arlong, Enel).

    Not saying that this is definite proof that Oda is sexist when it comes to violence against females, but I'm having a hard time believing the opposite.
    What about Ms Valentine? (Although that's the only counter-example I can think of..)

  12. #892

    Default Re: What do you think of the way women are portrayed in OP?

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    And this is why I'm looking forward for the upcoming Big Mom fight. Big Mom is the epitome of ugliness, so I'm sure Oda won't be hesitant to make Luffy go Elephant Gun on her ass (sorry for the mental images).

    Really, before Jabra reminded me of the Zoro vs. Ms. Monday fight and Zoro lecturing Enel, I thought the whole violence against females was too ambiguous to really judge, but now I find the whole thing very suspicious...

    Luffy beating the crap out of Alvida with a named attack.

    Zoro torturing Ms. Monday, but lecturing Enel for hurting a (good-looking) woman.

    Luffy fighting only the ugly Boa Sisters (and after they become even uglier Human\Snake Hybrids, no less).

    Only bastards seriously hurt (good-looking) women (Spandam, Yama, Arlong, Enel).

    Not saying that this is definite proof that Oda is sexist when it comes to violence against females, but I'm having a hard time believing the opposite.
    Ms. Valentine, Perona and Vivi are exceptions, I guess? To some degree Tashigi and Kuina, too. But it's pretty rare. It's not a big deal, though, because aside from Sanji and that one comment by Zoro none of the other crewmembers don't seem to have problems hitting women, if they're evil. Ugly or not.

  13. #893

    Default Re: What do you think of the way women are portrayed in OP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Juvar View Post
    What about Ms Valentine? (Although that's the only counter-example I can think of..)
    Quote Originally Posted by Kizuchan View Post
    Ms. Valentine, Perona and Vivi are exceptions, I guess? To some degree Tashigi and Kuina, too. But it's pretty rare.
    Only bastards seriously hurt (good-looking) women (Spandam, Yama, Arlong, Enel).
    Ms. Valentine: Regular Punch by Luffy.
    Vivi: Regular Punch by Luffy.
    Perona: She was hurt? I don't remember.

    Compare with what Robin went through against Yama, Enel and Spandam.

  14. #894

    Default Re: What do you think of the way women are portrayed in OP?

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    Ms. Valentine: Regular Punch by Luffy.
    Vivi: Regular Punch by Luffy.
    Perona: She was hurt? I don't remember.

    Compare with what Robin went through against Yama, Enel and Spandam.
    I guess it's bad that if there are normal looking women, who can fight, they have an hax ability or know to use it to their advantage, so nobody could really hit them?
    The violence thing just such a minor thing and it almost never gets brought up(aside from Sanji and that one comment by Zoro), like you said it's mostly ambiguous. Maybe it's bad that there are only a few instances of it, but personally, don't really see a problem here because in every other aspect female characters are treated just like male characters, hell it's unusual for a shounen to see strong male characters like Ace and Luffy be so weak and useless like in the Marineford arc.
    Last edited by Kizuchan; February 25th, 2012 at 06:47 AM.

  15. #895
    The Antagonist DarkFalcon's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you think of the way women are portrayed in OP?

    Treating people the same way is not equivalent on treating them equally. Differentpeople need to be dealt with different way, as they have different needs andcapabilities. Treating women in different way as treating men is not exactlysexist. Sexist is saying that women should stay in the kitchen, treat them ashouse servants, saying that they need to fit to ideal beauty worth anything andforbidding them something, claiming it's inappropriate or unheard of theirgender. But sexist is also demand from them to act the same way as men do. Itis very common now, if you are not compete with men, if you have differentvalues, different kind of rational thinking, then you are treated as lessworth, stupid, illogical. At the same time you have of course look nicely or atleast show that you care for your appearance, and if you are old enough you also have to take care for house and children. Sure men agreed to treatus fairy, but only if we will become educated white male with just differentbody shape. Equality is just an illusion in modern world, as every part ofculture and mentality seen as feminine is from the start treated as lessworthy. Just look at what we are discussing - fighting capabilities and how aredifferent females handled during the fight, we are largely basing our opinionon that - we are judging female characters upon something that is seen as manlydomain (that, and we also discuss appearance /fanservice issues) . Of course inadventurous stories like One Piece fighting important, I won't deny it. Butit's not something we should concentrate on. We should concentrate more onpsychology and interpersonal relationships - those things are more in femaledomain. Yeah, I know, this matters have already been brought up by severalposters, but it's still minority, and didn't have wider response.

    And yeah, Iagree, Zoro has sexist attitude. Still he probably is better than average reallife dude (sorry guys for harsh opinion on you, but let me say, you may not beaverage, so don’t take it to yourselves). That does mean automatically that Odais sexist.

    @KingCannon – a punch is a punch, Luffy used regular punch against Bellamy andagainst Tenryubito as well – he didn't need to use more.

    @Kizuchan –you're right the point was to show that strong, badass men may need help to, because nobody isinvincible and almighty, even if they are men.

  16. #896

    Default Re: What do you think of the way women are portrayed in OP?

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkFalcon View Post
    Treating people the same way is not equivalent on treating them equally. Differentpeople need to be dealt with different way, as they have different needs andcapabilities. Treating women in different way as treating men is not exactlysexist. Sexist is saying that women should stay in the kitchen, treat them ashouse servants, saying that they need to fit to ideal beauty worth anything andforbidding them something, claiming it's inappropriate or unheard of theirgender. But sexist is also demand from them to act the same way as men do. Itis very common now, if you are not compete with men, if you have differentvalues, different kind of rational thinking, then you are treated as lessworth, stupid, illogical. At the same time you have of course look nicely or atleast show that you care for your appearance, and if you are old enough you also have to take care for house and children. Sure men agreed to treatus fairy, but only if we will become educated white male with just differentbody shape. Equality is just an illusion in modern world, as every part ofculture and mentality seen as feminine is from the start treated as lessworthy. Just look at what we are discussing - fighting capabilities and how aredifferent females handled during the fight, we are largely basing our opinionon that - we are judging female characters upon something that is seen as manlydomain (that, and we also discuss appearance /fanservice issues) . Of course inadventurous stories like One Piece fighting important, I won't deny it. Butit's not something we should concentrate on. We should concentrate more onpsychology and interpersonal relationships - those things are more in femaledomain. Yeah, I know, this matters have already been brought up by severalposters, but it's still minority, and didn't have wider response.

    And yeah, Iagree, Zoro has sexist attitude. Still he probably is better than average reallife dude (sorry guys for harsh opinion on you, but let me say, you may not beaverage, so don’t take it to yourselves). That does mean automatically that Odais sexist.

    @KingCannon – a punch is a punch, Luffy used regular punch against Bellamy andagainst Tenryubito as well – he didn't need to use more.

    @Kizuchan –you're right the point was to show that strong, badass men may need help to, because nobody isinvincible and almighty, even if they are men.
    Dude.. seriously.. yo ae wasting your time.. just forget it..

  17. #897
    The Antagonist DarkFalcon's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you think of the way women are portrayed in OP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hisoga View Post
    Dude.. seriously.. yo ae wasting your time.. just forget it..
    No, hardly, I'm just saying what I want to say, it can't be considered waste of time. Besides if we think discussion is a waste of time things are never gonna change. I'm aware I may annoy the hell of some people, but if I accept people who annoy me with (in my opinion) their shortsighted vision or lack of imagination, I can't see why other people would not put up with me.

  18. #898

    Default Re: What do you think of the way women are portrayed in OP?

    we cant treat women in the exact same way simply because they are not the exact same. Women cant piss while standing up. Just get used to the idea that just cus Oda doesn't make the women strong physical fighters doesn't mean OP is sexist.

  19. #899
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    Default Re: What do you think of the way women are portrayed in OP?

    Quote Originally Posted by kagehisa View Post
    we cant treat women in the exact same way simply because they are not the exact same. Women cant piss while standing up. Just get used to the idea that just cus Oda doesn't make the women strong physical fighters doesn't mean OP is sexist.
    I fail to see how that's relevant.

    I agree with everything else. Just as someone can't treat a child and an elderly man/woman the same, one cannot treat men and women the same way. We should find balance and try to treat people by their personalities rather than their genders.

  20. #900

    Default Re: What do you think of the way women are portrayed in OP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nolus View Post
    I fail to see how that's relevant.

    I agree with everything else. Just as someone can't treat a child and an elderly man/woman the same, one cannot treat men and women the same way. We should find balance and try to treat people by their personalities rather than their genders.
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