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Thread: Attack on Titan

  1. #3861

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    We had that. They established a pretty strong friendship across the Uprising arc and even a scene where Eren thought he doesn't want to sacrifice Historia.

    But right now that's also the literal mystery. We don't know what the three key players are really thinking right now, that's the point (and why everyone is questioning them) and we're probably gonna get that before/during the final battle starts.

    What is Eren actually planning? Does he have full control over his actions because of those memories? Considering it was told Historia actually had some choices in this, would she really go through with this plan and would everyone actually be okay with that choice considering the risks being basically the same as when turning her into a Titan? Zeke murdered a lot of people and is suspect because of that.

    So if Historia and Eren are planning something together, it is going to be revealed. But we don't know. In fact this is the least confident I've ever been in any of my guesses about what is going on. There are so many different variables.

    Hizuru is suspect and they are the ones who suggested the baby breeding plan. So maybe Historia is being protected from them? I have no reason to think Historia and Eren are working together because Eren left Paradis early. But maybe they are because it was established he cares about his friends enough (but does he really considering he broke their trust, I think he does, but we don't really know). We know Zeke wants to do Grisha's plan better, but is the ultimate goal still the same? Recreate the empire and repeat history? Is Zeke influenced by Eren or vice versa? We know Zeke wants to "end it all", but at this point what is the point behind it? We know there are hints of them talking and working together. What's the nature of that relationship?

    We don't know. But I think we're gonna get the answers pretty soon. The mystery is the point and I want the next chapter already, but I can understand the frustration of not getting answers right away or even having it as a mystery in the first place. A mystery established by side characters and NPCs talking to each other, at that. I can totally see why people could lose interest. The whole story has been teasing and tugging the reader for a while like that, now it's been doing that quite a bit through the side cast before the big thing is revealed. I think that's why people might lose interest.

    I like it but a lot of people don't and I think there really are understandable reasons why.
    Last edited by Kizuchan; August 10th, 2018 at 08:50 PM.

  2. #3862
    The English Avenger Satsuki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    When re-reading the whole chapter, one other thing naturally sticks out: Being obsessed with people isn't good, Mikasa.

  3. #3863

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    Mikasa feels the most stagnant of the main cast to me. She hasn't really done anything other than be a badass and obsessed with a dingleberry like Eren.

  4. #3864
    The English Avenger Satsuki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    *snort* Dingleberry.

    Being obsessed is never good, even if it's with the man/woman of your dreams.

  5. #3865

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    Mikasa has had loads of interactions with others besides eren in their group. The idea shes been some one dimensional Eren Obsessed character who can fight has been false for years. This arc is actually revisiting it where the dynamic was subdued in the meantime
    Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:
    So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?
    H x H Chimera Ant Arc / OP Manga Spoiler
    Spoiler:



  6. #3866

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    Quote Originally Posted by Long John Silvers Rayleigh View Post
    Mikasa has had loads of interactions with others besides eren in their group. The idea shes been some one dimensional Eren Obsessed character who can fight has been false for years. This arc is actually revisiting it where the dynamic was subdued in the meantime
    She's spoken to others. But do you have examples of those conversations? I can't think of anything she's talked about that hasn't revolved around Eren in some way. She's very bland in personality to me.

  7. #3867

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    She has a very strong bond with Armin. She threw the blade away back in Trost to not let him kill himself. She was the first in the story to tell him to be more confident in himself besides Eren. He's the only one to stop her from doing stupid things like interfering during the trial.

    In the Uprising arc she's constantly protective of Armin. When he's being Eren's replacement and in that unfortunate situation with the old man, when Armin kills a person, she comforts him and during Levi's awkward speech of enouragement she jumps to his defense. She defends Armin on the roof and attacks Levi to get the serum (Hange even has to acknowledge her trauma for her to let go of defending him). Nothing to do with Eren's involvement.

    That isn't even counting her relationships with other characters. She sat by Sasha's grave in the previous chapter, we see Sasha protect her and Mikasa trust Sasha's instincts. They have some sweet moments. In the cave she goes for Historia instead of Eren. She is also concerned after Levi injures his leg.

    She hesitated with Reiner and Bertholt because they were friends.

    It's not like she's having a overly unreasonable reaction in this particular moment. She was much worse in the beginning of the story when she had to be stopped and called out constantly. Armin just suggested they probably have to kill Eren when worst comes to worst. Mikasa also isn't Eren's doormat. She stops him from running into battles he can't win (the one time she didn't he basically died). During the battle in Marley she calls him out on killing those children.

    Now it's even revealed that she is a member of an important family, giving her additional significance beyond Eren.

    I think the fact that people claim she only cares for Eren at this point is complete bs. I've seen people twist this crap, too. Oh she only cares about Armin, Sasha etc because of Eren. No she doesn't. She jumps to their rescue because she cares about everyone. She's just extra protective of Eren because he saved her and he's tied to her childhood trauma of losing two families within the span of a year. (Also Eren's mother's last wish to her was that she would protect Eren.)

    I still do think she is pretty basic compared to some other characters (especially since she is one of the main characters). Don't agree she's only Eren-centric, though.

    Her relationship with Armin totally needs more love, though. Such an underappreciated part of the story.
    Last edited by Kizuchan; August 11th, 2018 at 11:54 PM.

  8. #3868

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    The way the story's currently going, I can't see a happy ending of any shape or form. Almost every character is influenced by the sad environment they live in and their respective traits reflect that. Eren has gone off the rails in his thirst for vengeance/equality/whatever drives him, Armin is becoming cold and ruthless, Mikasa is headed towards a point where she will have to make a big decision, Sasha's dead (</3)... almost no character manages to stay "clean" in all that mess. And not to mention the looming danger of an all-out world war...

    Am I being too negative here? Or am I just failing to see what conclusion we're headed for?

  9. #3869

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    I expect a bittersweet one because Isayama did mention that bit about dropping the meanspirited kill 'em all ending.

    I think several will die, but in the end humanity inside the walls will survive and will manage to intigrate into the world.

  10. #3870
    The English Avenger Satsuki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    While probably still bittersweet, I do hope that part of the ending is the extermination of all the titans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kizuchan View Post
    I think the fact that people claim she only cares for Eren at this point is complete bs. I've seen people twist this crap, too. Oh she only cares about Armin, Sasha etc because of Eren. No she doesn't. She jumps to their rescue because she cares about everyone. She's just extra protective of Eren because he saved her and he's tied to her childhood trauma of losing two families within the span of a year. (Also Eren's mother's last wish to her was that she would protect Eren.)

    I still do think she is pretty basic compared to some other characters (especially since she is one of the main characters). Don't agree she's only Eren-centric, though.

    Her relationship with Armin totally needs more love, though. Such an underappreciated part of the story.
    Mikasa does care about other people, especially Armin, but it doesn't change the fact that she's obsessed with Eren. If she had to choose she'd probably choose Eren over all the others, even though it might break her heart.

    I guess what we all want is just more characterization for Mikasa.

  11. #3871

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    Here's why it's getting good: the characters are no longer stagnant.
    I didn't really like the fact that Isayama skipped years and took a shortcut for character development (for instance: Eren getting colder over the years, Mikasa being more objective)/
    But looking back, that was a shallow perspective on things.
    The 7 years might not have much that happened but the years before Erwin's death had impacted the characters a whole lot more than they themselves and us as readers realize.

    Eren has not been only betrayed once but twice, thrice if you count his father lying to him and using him to continue his own agency(much like he did to Zeke).
    All the while humanity were more than afraid and ready to snap off his neck if he showed any sign of rebellion.
    Note that all this happens in a span of a few months and less than a year or two.
    Can we really blame the dude for not taking a Naruto-esque or Jesus-like approach to the situation?
    Let's not forget the many times his trust in the scouts is broken.

    But the beautiful thing here is that Eren is not right. He is fucking flawed.
    The insult and breakdown of his character given to him when he tried to justify saving Armin speak volumes about his character.
    His anger is growing and a huge part of that anger seems to be getting misdirected.
    What exactly is he fighting for? What is his end goal?
    We knew that freedom and total extermination of Titans was his dream but now that his entire world was turned upside down, what is his plan?
    He once wished for humanity's freedom but now THEY are the biggest threat to said freedom.
    It's intriguing precisely because we as readers are still not in the know about what he is really planning.

    On the contrary, Armin and Hange perspective feels naive but it's the ideal that feels the most morally right.
    But we as readers know that there is no way that Marley will take them seriously. Heck they will pulverize them with or without the threat of Paradis just so their own nation can obtain the power to stand against external forces.
    When you are a small island and more than half the continent wishes to obliterate you, shoving "let's be friends" just isn't going to work.
    However, it is not entirely impossible but extremely complex and difficult to do so while at the same time it is the right path and the path that will can stop the cycle of hatred.

    It is idealistic yes but not completely impractical provided that Paradise is able to utilize all their resources and come up the right measures.
    Of course idiots like the corrupted wealthy groups, stupid decisions, and rage over rationality people isn't going to help.
    The problem with their side is currently this: Armin is too inexperienced and hesitant and Hange seems to have a whole bag of problems.
    Until they get their shit together, whatever ideals they hold are as deep as a puddle.

    On the other hand, Zeke and Eren seems pretty clear about what they want to achieve and at this point of time, any means justify the ends for them.


    Don't shit on Mikasa. She has grown a lot from being an obsessive character. Like Kizuchan mentioned, she is a character of her own and out of EMA, it always feels like she is the one that will be taking the "3rd perspective" on thing.
    I could go further about how she is a pretty great character, but that has been covered pretty well already.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Satsuki View Post
    While probably still bittersweet, I do hope that part of the ending is the extermination of all the titans.



    Mikasa does care about other people, especially Armin, but it doesn't change the fact that she's obsessed with Eren. If she had to choose she'd probably choose Eren over all the others, even though it might break her heart.

    I guess what we all want is just more characterization for Mikasa.
    I like to think choosing to choose Eren over others despite being clear that his plan will ruin a whole bunch of stuff and turning her back on her comrades is a sign of her character and development.
    It seems stupid to choose to stick with someone despite knowing that you don't entirely agree with him and that he's getting thousands killed.

    She is obsessed with Eren because out of anyone in the squad or in the world for the matter, she understands him the most.
    Remember that she was saved because of Eren's courage and was given a home.
    It's not a mental illness or anything, she understands that she is indebted to him and maybe some of those feelings are love BUT at the same time she is not so blinded to let those feelings overcome everything.
    Instead she choose to believe that Eren at his core, never changed from that kind boy that saved him when she was a kid.



    Is it really naivety or foolishness when it really is faith? Even if that faith help sets the world on fire, I don't think Mikasa will ever regret siding with him.

    People keep saying Armin is a counter to Eren or that he understands Eren the most and will be the one who stops him.
    In fact, look at how fast he is able to out right decide that they will replace Eren in the off chance that he goes off what they want him to do.
    Reverse the roles and I don't think Eren will do the same, not that fast anyway. Remember, he'll fight the scouts just to save his life.
    Armin's not in the wrong for doing so, Isayama has been building Armin to be such: someone who places the priority of the masses over the importance of one. Calculative even.
    Although he of all people(excluding Mikasa) should understand the torment Eren is going through. I think his experiences and him killing civilians has made him guilty and is now inclining towards viewing Eren more as weapon
    than his old friend.
    See, they are polar opposites at the very core.

    Mikasa is the one who understands Eren the most because she has been looking at him all this time.
    It might be an obsession once but now it's more than that.


    ....Or maybe I'm overthinking it too much and she's just another Sakura.

    ...Nah.
    Last edited by zeltrax225; August 12th, 2018 at 09:49 AM.

  12. #3872

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    Yeah, I really do want more Mikasa.

    I think she's interesting because on the surface she's the typical cool badass waifu character, but her attachment to Eren and her relationship with him is quite complex and human.

    Their relationship starts off as a codependancy, meaning they sort of boost each other's unhealthy behaviours. Mikasa is so protective of Eren because he keeps putting himself in danger and Eren keeps putting himself in danger because he wants to be the badass Mikasa is and prove he doesn't need help or protection from anyone.

    Neither realizes this until chapter 50, when Mikasa truly supports Eren as a person instead of just always being so protective of him. By the end of the Uprising arc Eren equally realizes he should take care of himself more because his mother, Mikasa and everyone else don't consider him weak, they just want him to be safe. He admits that he was jealous of Mikasa.

    You can see this newly built trust reach it's high point when Eren and Mikasa take out the Armoured and Colossal Titans. They have their part to play and they do it perfectly.

    Of course Mikasa would trust him considering their growth. It's also probably part of why she's so heartbroken over his actions. Armin sort of learns to be more pragmatic in comparison. Surely he cares about Eren, but the bigger picture is much more important. Eren acting on his own is a big blow to the group's trust of him. He effectively used them because of his status and importance. They had no choice but to act, otherwise they probably could've lost their biggest weapon.

    ...and then they don't even understand why/the though process behind his actions.
    Last edited by Kizuchan; August 12th, 2018 at 10:54 AM.

  13. #3873
    The English Avenger Satsuki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    Quote Originally Posted by zeltrax225 View Post
    ....Or maybe I'm overthinking it too much and she's just another Sakura.

    ...Nah.
    Oh dear no, I would never call her THAT.

  14. #3874

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    She'd light years beyond Sakura. She gets to be up front in the action. And she's always been shown as one of the top fighters. I don't think anyone would ever think of her that way lol.

  15. #3875

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone_Baroness View Post
    She'd light years beyond Sakura. She gets to be up front in the action. And she's always been shown as one of the top fighters. I don't think anyone would ever think of her that way lol.
    She only superior from a fighting standpoint in the sense that she's generally useful in that area. From a character standpoint Sakura is superior which is sad. Mikasa as a character is bland and boring. There isn't much to her if you take Eren out of the equation. She's hardly even an important character to the story & that's been masked only because she's the lead female.

  16. #3876

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    You can dislike her character but she's pretty dang plot important considering she's the reason most of them are still alive.

    -She saved Eren from being choked to death as a kid.
    -If she hadn't been there to throw that blade away from Armin, he probably would've gone and offed himself. Which would change the story a lot.
    -She distracted Annie enough for her to not get away before Levi arrived.
    -If she hadn't hesitated with Reiner and Bertholt, the story would be very different right now. (Again, she very obviously cares for characters aside from Eren)
    -If she hadn't defeated Reiner with her attack in Shiganshina, the cast in the near vicinity would most likely be dead. (So, Jean, Connie, Sasha, Hange, Mikasa herself)
    To go a little further, as a consequence, everyone would probably be killed because of Reiner.
    -If she hadn't saved Eren in Marley, the story would probably be much more different as well.
    -She's the connection to Hizuru.

    You can dislike her character, but she is actually very plot important.
    Last edited by Kizuchan; August 13th, 2018 at 01:09 AM.

  17. #3877

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    Everyone here is okay about Historia?

    Hidden:

  18. #3878

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    The whole thing with Historia could end up a complete mess storytelling-wise if not handled carefully.

    She's attracted to girls so that's one potential can of worms. Her character arc was about not being a pawn anymore so character regression is another potential problem.
    But we just don't know the whole picture and honestly, again, I find it really tough to make any confident guesses right now.

  19. #3879

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kizuchan View Post

    -She saved Eren from being choked to death as a kid.
    -If she hadn't been there to throw that blade away from Armin, he probably would've gone and offed himself. Which would change the story a lot.
    -She distracted Annie enough for her to not get away before Levi arrived.
    -If she hadn't hesitated with Reiner and Bertholt, the story would be very different right now. (Again, she very obviously cares for characters aside from Eren)
    -If she hadn't defeated Reiner with her attack in Shiganshina, the cast in the near vicinity would most likely be dead. (So, Jean, Connie, Sasha, Hange, Mikasa herself)
    To go a little further, as a consequence, everyone would probably be killed because of Reiner.
    -If she hadn't saved Eren in Marley, the story would probably be much more different as well.
    -She's the connection to Hizuru.

    You can dislike her character, but she is actually very plot important.
    You're blowing small & even hypothetical situations out of proportion & using knock on effects she had nothing to do with to make her seem more important that she really is.

    She barely shows up and when she does she hardly has dialog & she rarely interacts with other characters. She slowly started fading into the background after the first arc and after the clash of the titans arc she completed her transition into a background character who's importance is barely higher than Connie's or Sasha's was. She's only good for action scenes.

  20. #3880

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    I think most of that stuff effects the plot pretty massively - if she wasn't there the story would be very different. That is what plot importance means.

    How much would removing that particular character change the story? In Mikasa's case a lot. She helped in a bunch of stuff in crucial ways which I really don't think is blowing stuff out of proportion.

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