Chapter 615: "The Mato-Mato Curse" Discussion

[MagiciteKefka]

Vander Decken's power seems great at long range. But how useful is it in close quarters.

Gonna be fun seeing what he can do with it.

We just saw how useful it is at close quarters.

Granted, Hatchan didn't do anything against Decken when he threw the knife, but still.

[CharmedWard]

Top of page 5 on mangastream and I SWEAR that top panel character attacking Brook was Kidd o.0

And the Mermaid princess looks asleep from Decken's memory of her. Pervert.

[Zarnikon]

I count 8 strawhats on the cover, how many do you count?

[Noqanky]

I'm pretty sure that Hodi's dream of killing the Strawhats conflicts with their dreams. In that case, one dream will win out over the other, which is expected when two dreams compete with each other.

Right, because Hodi's lifelong ambition is to kill the straw hats ...

Hodi as a kid grew up seeing the exploits of Fisher Tiger, his death, and apparently also the death of Queen Otohime, whatever her deal was. He was obviously overwhelmed by this to the point he hated humans and believed in Arlong. And when Arlong failed he didn't see it as Arlong learning a well-deserved lesson, but as him being weak and thoughtless.
That's pretty much the case for most New Fishman Pirates. It's not about them being evil. When you see people in the real world killing each other for race or religion it's not about good vs. evil. It's about people growing up with hate and answering with hate. To some Hodi is even a martyr, a hero, because he's sacrificing his life by using steroids to further his cause.
Given all this I don't expect Hodi to be the real villain. I see him fighting and getting defeated, but he'll probably learn a lesson from seeing Luffy fight the real villain, probably to protect fishman island or the princess, or both.
And what happened with Hachi was Hodi reasserting himself as a leader by not listening and being stubborn about his decision, something that happens all the time in real life. After Arlong's failure he clearly developed the idea that some fishmen were just too weak to even matter. Decken was the one who decided to go all out on Hachi for the fun of it, and Hodi let it slide because Decken is something he needs because of his "curse". I think Franky was more of an asshole when he continued to mock Usopp and had him beat up.

Decken has more evil qualities as he probably was the cause of the Queen's death (10 years ... sounds like the death of the Queen coincided with Shirahoshi getting locked in the tower ...) Also, his motives are completely selfish ... he doesn't work for a cause, he works for a delusion that he's not willing to give up, and he clearly has issues of being seen as inferior to anyone. Oh, he's also greedy, remember he didn't want ankoro to eat the Sunny because of potential treasure, which he wanted obtain by murdering the crew.
Caribou is also a more malignant character who will probably also clash with others at some point, but since he's been portrayed as an idiot it's hard to take him as a serious threat so far. By the time the anime comes by he'll be the new Buggy.
As for Hyouzou, I think he's the Kaku of this arc. Basically, a badass character we just grow to love only to see him get defeated with honor by Zoro.

/edit: really glad to see Hammond disappeared from the scene. May he be forgotten for a long while.

[DaeJi]

Lol.
And Franky stole Usopp's money and beat him senselessly.
Wiper also attacked the Strawhats in a rage despite the SHs having nothing to do with the Vearth conflict.

Defeating a bunch of random pirates doesn't show shit, since Luffy does it all the time.

Franky stole money from who he thought were merciless pirates. Remember, despite what the reader knows most the world (haven't not met the Strawhats view them as villains). Franky was just trying to protect Water Seven, per Iceberg's words. Once he got to know them, he apologized to the Strawhats, built them a dream ship and even joined.

Yeah, I agree with you on Wiper. To this day his fanbase perplexes and worries me.

Luffy doesn't look for fights. He only fights when people get his way and start it. Or if they have hurt one of his friends or crew. That's it. If no one pitted themselves against him or people he liked, Luffy wouldn't fight anyone.

Hodi attacks people constantly because he thinks he's better than them and that it's his right to do with them as he pleases.

There is a difference.

Right, because Hodi's lifelong ambition is to kill the straw hats ...

Hodi as a kid grew up seeing the exploits of Fisher Tiger, his death, and apparently also the death of Queen Otohime, whatever her deal was. He was obviously overwhelmed by this to the point he hated humans and believed in Arlong. And when Arlong failed he didn't see it as Arlong learning a well-deserved lesson, but as him being weak and thoughtless.
That's pretty much the case for most New Fishman Pirates. It's not about them being evil. When you see people in the real world killing each other for race or religion it's not about good vs. evil. It's about people growing up with hate and answering with hate. To some Hodi is even a martyr, a hero, because he's sacrificing his life by using steroids to further his cause.
Given all this I don't expect Hodi to be the real villain. I see him fighting and getting defeated, but he'll probably learn a lesson from seeing Luffy fight the real villain, probably to protect fishman island or the princess, or both.
And what happened with Hachi was Hodi reasserting himself as a leader by not listening and being stubborn about his decision, something that happens all the time in real life. After Arlong's failure he clearly developed the idea that some fishmen were just too weak to even matter. Decken was the one who decided to go all out on Hachi for the fun of it, and Hodi let it slide because Decken is something he needs because of his "curse". I think Franky was more of an asshole when he continued to mock Usopp and had him beat up.

Decken has more evil qualities as he probably was the cause of the Queen's death (10 years ... sounds like the death of the Queen coincided with Shirahoshi getting locked in the tower ...) Also, his motives are completely selfish ... he doesn't work for a cause, he works for a delusion that he's not willing to give up, and he clearly has issues of being seen as inferior to anyone. Oh, he's also greedy, remember he didn't want ankoro to eat the Sunny because of potential treasure, which he wanted obtain by murdering the crew.
Caribou is also a more malignant character who will probably also clash with others at some point, but since he's been portrayed as an idiot it's hard to take him as a serious threat so far. By the time the anime comes by he'll be the new Buggy.
As for Hyouzou, I think he's the Kaku of this arc. Basically, a badass character we just grow to love only to see him get defeated with honor by Zoro.

/edit: really glad to see Hammond disappeared from the scene. May he be forgotten for a long while.

Bad people can do evil things in the name of a good cause. Hodi is a bad guy. Sure, he may have "noble" reasons to do what he is doing, but he is still cruel, violent, crazied, and disregards anyone he views as weak. If you want to like Hodi, fine. I like villains too. But I don't try to make them into something heroic.

[Mizrath]

hey im not sure if anyone noticed this but on the cover page on Dadans left side there appear to be 3 books marked ace, now im not sure but i think theyre scrapbooks because you can see dogura ( or is the short guy magura?) cutting out something from the newspaper.

[climhazard]

It's really nice to hear mention of Arlong in this chapter, it felt as though Fishman Island was becoming too much of a departure from the One Piece world.
It's tied everything back in quite nicely for me.

Also, shit is gonna go down veeeery soon considering Hodi, Vander Decken and their crews are on standby to attack.

[wolfwoof]

We just saw how useful it is at close quarters.

Granted, Hatchan didn't do anything against Decken when he threw the knife, but still.

We saw him casualy throw a knife against a crippled guy who even in his prime would be weaker than him. I was thinking more along the lines of how he'll use his power to defend against an actual threat.

As for Hodi i can't see him as anything more than a small-time chump. This guy is a brute doped up into mindless rage and he's calling Arlong unrefined?

The same Arlong who through bribery and mindrape kept Nami and her village under his thumb. Man Hodi is giving off so much fodder aura it's not even funny.

[Reyairia]

Franky stole money from who he thought were merciless pirates. Remember, despite what the reader knows most the world (haven't not met the Strawhats view them as villains). Franky was just trying to protect Water Seven, per Iceberg's words. Once he got to know them, he apologized to the Strawhats, built them a dream ship and even joined.

Yeah, I agree with you on Wiper. To this day his fanbase perplexes and worries me.

Luffy doesn't look for fights. He only fights when people get his way and start it. Or if they have hurt one of his friends or crew. That's it. If no one pitted themselves against him or people he liked, Luffy wouldn't fight anyone.

Hodi attacks people constantly because he thinks he's better than them and that it's his right to do with them as he pleases.

There is a difference.

Lol no.
yeah, Franky believed that the SHs were merciless pirates... where? How did he believe that when he stole money from them and he KNEW that the SHs just wanted to fix their ship, with Usopp dragging himself on the floor begging him to give him the money to finally fix up Merry. He believed they were merciless pirates my ass.

Secondly, you completely forget that humans, and especially human pirates came to Fishman Island to wreck and kidnap its civilians. Hodi is probably doing a service keeping people like - I dunno, Caribou off the island. To say that what he is doing is 100% wrong and what the SHs do is 100% right is bullshit. Remember that most pirates in One Piece are merciless thieves and bandits - Even Bonney mentioned that a pirate that helps people is strange - defeating a group of random fodder pirates isn't particularly morally wrong.

[SingingThroughTheStorm]

I found it odd when he said Arlong was unrefined. Arlong had a temper, but he wasn't dumb. Arlong was able to keep a group of islands under his control without a rebellion happening.

Hodi acted like a doped up fool. He used the steroids to get strong, when he didn't need to. He cuffed himself to make a point to pirates that may or may not tell there story.

[triforcebih]

I Bet Luffy'll be pissed when he sees Hachi hurt.

[MagiciteKefka]

We saw him casualy throw a knife against a crippled guy who even in his prime would be weaker than him. I was thinking more along the lines of how he'll use his power to defend against an actual threat.

I know what you're getting at, and i agree. While Hatchan wasn't defending himself, Decken still gave us an example of what he can do in close quarters. He could do the same thing to someone who attacked him.

For example, someone rushed towards him with a sword. He just dodges out of the way, touching him on the shoulder and then casually tosses a dagger into the air.

[DaeJi]

Lol no.
yeah, Franky believed that the SHs were merciless pirates... where? How did he believe that when he stole money from them and he KNEW that the SHs just wanted to buy a new ship, with Usopp dragging himself on the floor begging him to give him the money to finally fix up Merry. He believed they were merciless pirates my ass.

They were pirates with a captain worth 100 million, a first mate worth 60 million, and a crewman worth 79 million. And pirates are not nice people. Not the majority of them. All Franky knew was that they were pirates (and remember, most pirates are cruel, murderous, greedy pillagers) and worth a lot of money. What would anyone think? Here's a better question: why would he think that they would not be stereotypical pirates? Because they wanted to get their ships fixed? That arc began with a typical pirate crew getting their ship fixed and then trying to pull some stunt.

Secondly, you completely forget that humans, and especially human pirates came to Fishman Island to wreck and kidnap its civilians. Hodi is probably doing a service keeping people like - I dunno, Caribou off the island. To say that what he is doing is 100% wrong and what the SHs do is 100% right is bullshit. Remember that most pirates in One Piece are merciless thieves and bandits - Even Bonney mentioned that a pirate that helps people is strange - defeating a group of thieving pirates isn't particularly morally wrong.

I never said that what the Strawhats do is 100% right. We just saw them take over a kingdom! And let me ask you this, would Hodi hesitate to shot a young girl's mother in front of her? I would say no. He believes that Fishmen are superior to humans in every way, even morally. Yeah, he feels what he is doing is for the best of everyone, but then again so did Lucci when he killed 500 captured soldiers.

I also want to point out that if you think that Franky is supposed to know that the Strawhats are not thieving pirates, why shouldn't Hodi also know that? Be consistent.

[Ludovic]

glad to see a lot of what was being debated every chapter cleared up by this one. definately can't wait for next week to see what's next

[SingingThroughTheStorm]

Luffy will go berserk after what happened with Hachi.
He was really mad when Hachi got shot by one of the world nobles.
But imagine how mad he will be when he sees Hachi riddled with a ton of arrows.

[triforcebih]

For example, someone rushed towards him with a sword. He just dodges out of the way, touching him on the shoulder and then casually tosses a dagger into the air.

He would have problems with touching Sanji or Zoro... and not to mention Luffy Gear Second.

[DaeJi]

He would have problems with touching Sanji or Zoro... and not to mention Luffy Gear Second.

We don't know how fast Decken is. He may be on the same physical level as the Monster Trio.

[Reyairia]

They were pirates with a captain worth 100 million, a first mate worth 60 million, and a crewman worth 79 million. And pirates are not nice people. Not the majority of them. All Franky knew was that they were pirates (and remember, most pirates are cruel, murderous, greedy pillagers) and worth a lot of money. What would anyone think? Here's a better question: why would he think that they would not be stereotypical pirates? Because they wanted to get their ships fixed? That arc began with a typical pirate crew getting their ship fixed and then trying to pull some stunt.

Yeah, so Franky can kill some pirates he assumed were thieving horrible people and it's fine, but Hodi can't under the same assumption? Sure.
Hodi probably has some experience with pirates kidnapping and enslaving his people, he has more reason to hate human pirates than Franky does, and more reason to suspect that they're bad people.

I never said that what the Strawhats do is 100% right. We just saw them take over a kingdom! And let me ask you this, would Hodi hesitate to shot a young girl's mother in front of her? I would say yes. He believes that Fishmen are superior to humans in every way, even morally. Yeah, he feels what he is doing is for the best of everyone, but then again so did Lucci when he killed 500 captured soldiers.

We don't know enough about Hodi to assume that he wouldn't hesitate to kill a child, or even a mother. Wapol didn't hesitate to kill a father and yet he got redeemed in a cover story. Wiper wouldn't have hesitated to kill any Skypeian, including Gan Fall's subordinates even if they had families. Lucci also got redeemed in a cover story. Franky should have been able to tell that Usopp really cared for his ship and his crewmembers just by the way he behaved. If anything Oda has a habit of redeeming characters too much.

I also want to point out that if you think that Franky is supposed to know that the Strawhats are not thieving pirates, why shouldn't Hodi also know that? Be constant.

You're the one that's not being constant.

[triforcebih]

We don't know how fast Decken is. He may be on the same physical level as the Monster Trio.

Well ok then but I still doubt that he could be faster then G2 Luffy. I mean only a few peeps are faster then Luffy in G2 D;.

[Coruscation]

Right, because Hodi's lifelong ambition is to kill the straw hats ...

Hodi as a kid grew up seeing the exploits of Fisher Tiger, his death, and apparently also the death of Queen Otohime, whatever her deal was. He was obviously overwhelmed by this to the point he hated humans and believed in Arlong. And when Arlong failed he didn't see it as Arlong learning a well-deserved lesson, but as him being weak and thoughtless.
That's pretty much the case for most New Fishman Pirates. It's not about them being evil. When you see people in the real world killing each other for race or religion it's not about good vs. evil. It's about people growing up with hate and answering with hate. To some Hodi is even a martyr, a hero, because he's sacrificing his life by using steroids to further his cause.
Given all this I don't expect Hodi to be the real villain. I see him fighting and getting defeated, but he'll probably learn a lesson from seeing Luffy fight the real villain, probably to protect fishman island or the princess, or both.
And what happened with Hachi was Hodi reasserting himself as a leader by not listening and being stubborn about his decision, something that happens all the time in real life. After Arlong's failure he clearly developed the idea that some fishmen were just too weak to even matter. Decken was the one who decided to go all out on Hachi for the fun of it, and Hodi let it slide because Decken is something he needs because of his "curse". I think Franky was more of an asshole when he continued to mock Usopp and had him beat up.

Decken has more evil qualities as he probably was the cause of the Queen's death (10 years ... sounds like the death of the Queen coincided with Shirahoshi getting locked in the tower ...) Also, his motives are completely selfish ... he doesn't work for a cause, he works for a delusion that he's not willing to give up, and he clearly has issues of being seen as inferior to anyone. Oh, he's also greedy, remember he didn't want ankoro to eat the Sunny because of potential treasure, which he wanted obtain by murdering the crew.
Caribou is also a more malignant character who will probably also clash with others at some point, but since he's been portrayed as an idiot it's hard to take him as a serious threat so far. By the time the anime comes by he'll be the new Buggy.
As for Hyouzou, I think he's the Kaku of this arc. Basically, a badass character we just grow to love only to see him get defeated with honor by Zoro.

/edit: really glad to see Hammond disappeared from the scene. May he be forgotten for a long while.

Great post, sums up my thoughts of Hodi, Hyouzou and Caribou (though I do think that he still feels like a threat... a decidedly ruthless 200m Supernova who just so happens to be a Logia user and fairly smart when it comes down to it running free on the island) at the moment. I've also been thinking about the thing with Decken touching Shirahoshi and Otohime's death coinciding, there's potential there for him to be quite a sinister villain.