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Thread: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption - The Animation

  1. #9701

    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption - The Animation

    The Naruto universe makes no sense to me sometimes.

    Got a character questioning the skill of "kid" ninja. Shouldn't everyone at this point know what they're capable of?

    Also with the last episode being the animated version of Mitsuki's backstory, this week's filler reverts Boruto back to being a flippant brat. How many slices of humble pie is he going to have to eat before he gets it?

    Also this episode feels like a rehash of Naruto bridge arc.

  2. #9702
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    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption - The Animation

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone_Baroness View Post
    [...] this week's filler reverts Boruto back to being a flippant brat. How many slices of humble pie is he going to have to eat before he gets it?
    The english language never ceases to amaze me, loving this phrasing :P

    But yeah the fact that Boruto never has even a tiny bit of character progress is becoming increasingly unbearable. I don't know how long they plan to make this anime (I'm afraid similiar length to the original Naruto series, maybe even with its own Shippuden version), but I would like it to be more concise. Given the aforementioned similarities to the original Naruto series are becoming more clear with Naruto/Boruto bridge 2.0 arc and seeing how Naruto was a dense prick for hundreds of episodes (well into the dreaded Ninja War arc), I'm afraid Boruto will remain a brat up to/throughout the anime's final arc as well.
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  3. #9703

    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption - The Animation

    Quote Originally Posted by Pennywise View Post
    The english language never ceases to amaze me, loving this phrasing :P

    But yeah the fact that Boruto never has even a tiny bit of character progress is becoming increasingly unbearable. I don't know how long they plan to make this anime (I'm afraid similiar length to the original Naruto series, maybe even with its own Shippuden version), but I would like it to be more concise. Given the aforementioned similarities to the original Naruto series are becoming more clear with Naruto/Boruto bridge 2.0 arc and seeing how Naruto was a dense prick for hundreds of episodes (well into the dreaded Ninja War arc), I'm afraid Boruto will remain a brat up to/throughout the anime's final arc as well.
    Lol. We do have some odd phrases.

    It's majorly annoying. Like how much filler are we supposed to be getting? So far it's 90% filler with the anime. So I guess they don't want Boruto to actually have any growth before they get to the canon plot. But it's still irritating watching him constantly be disrespectful to all his teachers and seniors.

  4. #9704

    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption - The Animation

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone_Baroness View Post
    Lol. We do have some odd phrases.

    It's majorly annoying. Like how much filler are we supposed to be getting? So far it's 90% filler with the anime. So I guess they don't want Boruto to actually have any growth before they get to the canon plot. But it's still irritating watching him constantly be disrespectful to all his teachers and seniors.
    The thing is what even is the canon? The only thing we know that's gonna happen is the chunnin exams and then an older Boruto fighting on a ruined leaf village. So we can't really expect any big character growth until the chunin exams. I think anime Boruto has at least matured a little bit over the course of the academy days in the anime and is a much more bearable character than he as in the movie. Boruto in the manga is the biggest shithead brat and that's supposed to be after the events of the chunnin exam so who knows when he'll grow.

  5. #9705

    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption - The Animation

    Enjoyed this episode for what it was.

    Clearly i think this Anime is for new fans of the series or those fans who now have their own children, so yes there are going to be repeating beats, though if you read ahead in the manga, Boruto quickly drops this lone wolf bullshit after the movie/exam arc.

    Fans (or viewers) like us who clearly remember a lot of the old series are probably going "this shit again?" but we are NOT the intended demographic for this.

    And frankly, the anime doing its own thing is fine by me, the entire premise of Boruto itself is filler. Fuck there isn't even filler anymore, the story is over, this is just spin off material.
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  6. #9706

    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption - The Animation

    I was looking where to read Naruto online, the colored manga version, but kissmanga and batoto (RIP this week) only have up to chapter 40ish

    Anyone here knows where can I read online (or even download, but I prefer reading online) the colored manga?

  7. #9707

    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption - The Animation

    hey , I stopped reading boruto series (manga and anime) after I read the first chapter and would like to know the current story progress. Has Kawaki appeared yet at current story?

  8. #9708

    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption - The Animation

    Is it possible to make a fight this boring?...

  9. #9709

    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption - The Animation

    Every time a chapter comes out and I go through the pages without bothering reading the dialogues, I wonder "who's buying this?". I don't think I know anyone who reads Boruto, much less like it.

  10. #9710

    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption - The Animation

    It's been a very boring arc. Which is kinda terrible since we were given ninja cyborgs and light sabers...

  11. #9711

    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption - The Animation

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone_Baroness View Post
    It's been a very boring arc. Which is kinda terrible since we were given ninja cyborgs and light sabers...
    That is the bad part about the arc

  12. #9712

    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption - The Animation

    Quote Originally Posted by Bellamy_ View Post
    That is the bad part about the arc
    I dunno. It could have been cool. But I still like nothing about Boruto as a character. Salada is ok but mostly just blah. Mitsuki is kinda just there. I don't care about inventor guy or Konhamaru.

  13. #9713

    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption - The Animation

    For me the problem is Ao being a main antagonist, when he was mostly comedy relief in Shippuden.
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  14. #9714

    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption - The Animation

    Damn AO got trashed, Konohamaru was trashed by AO and that Koji guy can summon toads...

  15. #9715

    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption - The Animation

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  16. #9716

    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption - The Animation

    Nardo needs your help! attack of a super ninja means that Ye Village needs all the help listen to Nardo Hurricane Ninja Storm 4.5 today at narutoninja4-5.com

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  17. #9717

    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption - The Animation

    Pulling from the My Hero thread so it doens't get bogged down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    I want to say that the series couldn't have ended that soon without Naruto becoming the strongest person ever in typical shonen protagonist fashion and how he's still years away from being a viable Hokage candidate (not that the series ever bothered to explore how that process works besides vague hints of strength, wisdom, and nepotism), but considering how the actual manga itself ends without ever showing how and why Naruto becomes Hokage... Maybe you're right. I can only see Naruto winning the fight against Sasuke being too predictable though, even by shonen standards. I don't really know where the series would go with Sasuke's character if he was forced to stay in the village after making a clear decision to change allegiances.

    Although I still don't like the idea of Orochimaru being the final antagonist. I know he was one of the only good villains in Naruto, but he lacks any sort of relationship with Naruto aside from constant underestimation to make me feel satisfied with him being Naruto's final opponent. There is nothing interesting or truly satisfying to me about Naruto beating Orochimaru other than freeing Sasuke, and I also wouldn't really like that since Sasuke gets treated as a victim for consciously betraying his allies (but hey, Part II already sort of did that anyways so nothing much changes lol). But of course, I would still take him over last minute alien rabbit goddess mastermind.
    Less that was a good stopping point and more that was as far as Kishi actually had any plans.

    But had they beaten Orochi at that point, but the sucess of the series still demanded it keep going, they then could have jumped ahead like, I dunno, 5 or 8 years or something. Or done the dragonball thing. Jump ahead three years, do an arc, then jump another three years, then jump again. That way you get characters really aged up, world shaken, and Naruto working his way towards being the best seems like a lifelong achievement rather than something that appens in about two weeks. And the baggage from the first half of the story dealt with instead of carrying the same plot thread forever. Clean slate start on the new villains at that point and do whatever ideas come fresh,change up the locales or the kind of story being done in any given spot, rather than being completely locked into the Akatsuki thing and their timetable for the entire duration of the series. Each one of those guys could have still been the exact same arc boss that they were, but the overall story would have felt and worked better if they weren't so explicitly just one member of a bigger orginization, being chewed off one by one.

    One Piece has the same structure, where there's multiple members of a big bad group, but they are all their own seperate entities rather than a group under one leader. So beating Crocodile or Moria or Dofla are their own events. Each saving their own territory and helping out new allies. In Naruto the big bads were *all* just minions so it never felt like real accomplishment or forward momentum other than hitting a checklist.

    Or in Dragonball. It's hard to appreciate in territories that started with Z and Piccollo's reform arc, and where the anime aired in weird orders over long periods rather than weekly, but from the time Piccollo Sr arrived, died, his son was the big villain of a tournament, they fought Raditz, he trained Gohan, and THREE timeskips accounting for 9 years .... all took place in 8 volumes. Two years in real time. And Piccollo teamed against Raditz after only five. But two years! For all that! (And, impossible as it is to believe with how long the anime stretched, the Namek saga was only 7 volumes. Less than two years! Same with Androids and Buu. Two year arcs, all of them less than 8 volumes)

    So heck, Naruto aping the same approach and aging the characters up a lot over time and even being multi-generational wouldn't even be a risk, because Dragonball already paved the way for letting the kids grow up. (And other more slice of life series like Hikaru no Go or Bakumon totally let the characters age.)
    Inu Yasha fell into the same problem with Naraku being a permanent omnipresent threat that they never made any progress on over the course of like 50 volumes until the very end. It gets stale. You can't have the heroes lose constantly, and you also can't have the villain always losing and going "it was all actually part of my master plan anyway." It gets stale. You NEED to be able to change up your enemies every couple years. Or over in Bleach where Aizen dragged on far too long so that when he was finally beaten it really should have been the end of the series rather than it going another two arcs that never ended.
    Last edited by Robby; April 11th, 2018 at 04:52 PM.

  18. #9718
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption - The Animation

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Pulling from the My Hero thread so it doens't get bogged down.
    Smart move, I appreciate not having to derail the thread.

    I understand your point, especially about One Piece. But I don't necessarily mind having a recurring antagonist faction like the Akatsuki (emphasis on like, it does not have to be them specifically) being the main/final threat in a shonen series. I don't even mind occasionally having some of its members being arc antagonists either. Shonen operates a lot on introducing a brand new villain every arc, but I think that also sort of gets stale in its own right if your series keeps spinning its wheels for years upon years. Feel free to disagree. I mainly stick with One Piece not just to see the next big bad and island, but to see where the plot heading with recurring antagonists like the Blackbeard Pirates, the Marines/World Government, and other characters foreshadowed for years upon years like Doflamingo. Without that sense of progression, One Piece becomes a lot less interesting as a series to binge and analyze since the arcs would then feel a lot more contained and borderline anthological. A type of structure which, although it allows for an amazing range of freedom in creativity, is always going to eventually bore me at some point and make me quit the series for a while if it's long running. I need a consistent hook to keep me invested in a series going for that long that is something other than the main characters just getting stronger. And the later that the final antagonist is introduced, the more risky reader investment is in the protagonist's last conflict being against that person.

    And I think that is what's needed to make an antagonist faction like the Akatsuki work in an ideal world where Naruto's concepts were handled better. Progression. Where defeating an Akatsuki member or inhibiting one of their plans has more ramifications than a boss rush mode in a video game, which requires them to be more functional in the overall world events than stealing a new Tailed Beast now and then. Add in the occasional unorthodox antagonist victory, and you have something valuable there that keeps your readers invested in the long haul rather than relying on solely on throwing the next "bigger and badder" fresh face into the mix. Although there does need to be a balance with having other villains along the way instead of just the Akatsuki every single arc to let them not get too repetitive and have free room to breathe as they plan to make new plays. That's what My Hero Academia has been doing with the League of Villains in juxtaposition with the occasional off-tangent antagonist like Overhaul and Gentle, and it's working decently for the most part aside from how most of the characters there still haven't been developed to be interesting characters besides around three people.

    The difference between the Akatsuki antagonists like Pilaf, Piccolo, and Vegeta is that an antagonist group like the Akatsuki as a whole is never going to be defeated in one arc. With that many members being so powerful, it's silly. That is an advantage allowing them to stay as interesting long-term antagonists in comparison. The trick is finding out how to keep them interesting instead of doing the same thing over and over again. And there requires a mix of ongoing mysteries, delayed character reveals, character development, different tactics/phases in achieving their goals, not losing all of the time, maybe having the minions be more than just minions and moreso "equal" bosses running independent operations like the Warlords/Yonko but connected to a shared goal, etc. Again, like the League of Villains in My Hero Academia. Although they also have the benefit of not already being top dogs like the Akatsuki and recruiting new members as the story progresses, so the grow at around the same rate the heroes do to give the heroes viable explanations for defeating them while upping their competence so we still take them seriously.

    Now, Horikoshi can obviously screw up with the League of Villains at any time. But so far, I really appreciate the breath of fresh air My Hero Academia has in not having a repetitive brand new villain of the arc structure like Dragon Ball and One Piece. It fittingly feels like a superhero comic, but without making the villains repetitive losers who inexplicably keep escaping from jail all of the time in a perpetual cycle because of demand for familiar antagonists.

    But making that work for a series like Naruto or My Hero Academia requires a LOT of planning ahead. Otherwise you get another Naraku who is permanently omnipresent, like you said, but has such little progression in stakes and actions that he ends up feeling more like a constant loose end burden than a villain makes you stay engaged with constant suspense throughout the story. Which Kishimoto was clearly never interested in. He winged plenty of Part I if you scrutinize the pacing:

    First mission that ends up being the highest ranked mission
    Chunin Exams with a full main cast out of nowhere
    Village invasion war right that cancels the exams
    Training arc with new Hokage search
    Rescue arc about Naruto risking tooth and nail saving someone he wasn't even active teammates with for half the series at that point.

    Almost every arc keeps dialing things up to 11 instead of allowing time for the series to breathe, set up world building that could actually pay off down the road instead of being sideshow lore, organically introducing new main characters gradually, and dedicating enough time to character relationships so that big events involving them feel properly captivating. Kishimoto just got REALLY lucky because Part 1 had a small amount of arcs that happened to be very long and he didn't immediately hit a ceiling of plot threads/supporting characters/antagonists he was expected to stay dedicated to. But that finally caught up with him in Part II, where you see all the seams fall apart and how much he only cares about main characters that are named Kakashi, Shikamaru, and Guy outside of the cornerstone that is Naruto and Sasuke. And that's not even getting into how much arbitrary plot focus the Uchiha get out of every faction in the ninja world.

    I mainly agree with you overall, but I blame Part II's failings more on Kishimoto not properly investing time into planning out his main story beats in the future yet still trapping himself with so many supporting characters and recurring antagonists. Not so much that a concept of an overarching antagonist group like the Akatsuki can't ever work. I don't mind the same plot threads seemingly running forever and ever (One Piece is a testament to that) as long as you keep it feeling interesting and feel like it keeps gradually getting bigger rather than the same goal in sight from start to finish.

    Naruto having multiple timeskips like Dragon Ball COULD feasibly work, that idea sounds interesting. I'm just not too keen on everything single "era" being this completely new black slate that can't carry on any old plot threads. They should work as individual stories with their own beginning/middle/end, sure, but they should still feel like they're building up a few things over time if the series wants to keep my interest. Dragon Ball got away with having completely new villains/goals without any overarching story lines for each saga, but I don't really need that again. Especially when series like One Piece and My Hero Academia are showing how fun it is to have recurring antagonists grow over time in balance with new premises/antagonists in-between.
    Last edited by Count Mario; April 11th, 2018 at 05:45 PM.

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  19. #9719

    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption - The Animation

    Oh, I'm not saying it needed to be a complete blank slate every time or that it shouldn't have had an overarching big threat. HxH for all its flaws does that well with the Spiders and Hisoka. Slayers is my favorite series ever and it has top of the world big bads. Back when Beet the Vandel Buster was originally running, it had a big bad in the background and lots of underlings, and it worked. Berserk is basically a 30 year long revenge tale against Griffith, and that works fine. I could point to long running novel series but manga are the easy common ground in here. (But even Harry Potter didn't explicitly fight Voldemort in EVERY volume)

    It's just that it shouldn't have been ONLY that overarching threat for basically all of part two. Every single arc was "find Akatsuki, fight scene, lose and discover weakeness, fight scene again, strike one member off." For years and years up until it launches into the final war that was super endless.

    Within those "hunt a guy down and kill them" arc there was no world building going on, nothing exploring the new cities, no new side characters, almost no focus on the side characters we had. The only break I can think of we had was Danzo... a badguy from within the city who had legitimate points! But unfortunately just sort of came out of nowhere and was done within the same arc. (And also had a really stupid invinciibility power he didn't use very well.) If Danzo had been in the background of part one, or even a regular bit of background from the start of part 2, he could have been an amazing payoff. But he was just anohter villlain that showed up only to get beaten down.

    So its not so much the big bad orginization that was the problem... its that each of those minions didn't really have a story arc built around them other than "show up, fight."

    The anime was actually much better in that regard, the filler actually utilized the side teams and built the world... just unfortunately it was all... filler... so it couldn't ammount to anything.

  20. #9720
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption - The Animation

    I definitely concur with all of that. I think the most disappointing wastes of potential for me were an "Age of Danzo" arc (with buildup from Part I/early Part II) and not exploring more of the Mist Village's bloody history. Which I think was all manipulation by the Akatsuki instead of being as philosophically complex as we thought it was. Which was disappointing.

    Ugh, this discussion brings back so much disappointment...

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