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Thread: Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs

  1. #10401
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    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    Thank you for understanding, but "enjoy" is a strong word. More like mild curiosity and amusement as to what this movie is trying to do. Tonal whiplash, forgettable characters, a jerk protagonist, rushed character development, and really juvenile humor. It's a bad film to be sure, not even mediocre just awful. But it fascinates me on a certain level. In a meme-y way. This movie is a meme, yes, that's my one sentence review of it.

    Also, every defense for this film is pathetic. It's fine to like it, but the justifications I've read are essentially imagining it as an entirely different film somehow.
    I am definitely glad I didn't spend my own money on Venom but I didn't hate it. Yes, it was stupid, intensely mediocre but just a hair above bad, you could smell the sweat from Sony trying to save as much on its budget as possible, and the acting wasn't even on point for the caliber of actors in the lead roles. The sparse humor did pull it back from the brink, and the personality of the symbiote did help despite being so different from the comics. Suffice it to say, I am looking forward to the sequel now that the origins crap is out of the way, but only if the following are done (Spoilers revolving entirely around the mid-credits scene):
    Spoiler:
    1. It has to be rated R. It worked for Deadpool, it can work here, and for the Carnage plot, anything less is unacceptable (hell, THIS movie should have been rated R). Red Bad trailer that shit to get us pumped. Show us Woody Harrelson doing his Mickey Knox thing from Natural Born Killers again. They could even play it where Eddie has to use his investigative skills to try to get inside Kasady's head to get one step ahead and find him to put a stop to him. That way he's less like a passenger to the more assertive symbiote.
    2. Give it a subtitle like Carnage Rules or something that's a reference to the comics. Lethal Protector probably won't work since that's a good storyline to use for a different film.
    3. Have Cletus Kasady about to be executed, with Eddie present as one of the witnesses (and Venom being like, "Can I snag one of his organs on the way out as a snack?"), and just at the moment of initiation for the whatever method of execution Kasady has requested, the spawn symbiote emerges and latches onto him. I think that would be the most dramatic moment for the bonding to occur.


    The motorcycle chase scene was a tad over-the-top in terms of how much collateral damage the bad guys were willing to cause (and think they'd be able to get away with) but it was a fun way to showcase most of Venom's abilities, and the evil symbiote was pretty badass. The smoke bombs and the fact that it's mostly at night do take away a lot from the visuals, though, so that wasn't fun. But I did like the symbiote (a lot more than Brock), especially that line near the end,
    Spoiler:
    "On my world I was...kind of a loser. Like you."
    That made me laugh out loud harder than anything else in the movie, and it kind of explained his choosing Eddie without needing to spend a lot of time on it, though the short runtime could have allowed for it with some flashbacks or something that didn't require any CGI.

    So yeah. I don't regret seeing it but if I had spent anything on the tickets, I would have. I'm definitely glad I had a companion with me, too, especially a fellow fan of Marvel properties.

  2. #10402

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs

    I would think if Carnage were to feature in a sequel the movie would be called Maximum Carnage given the story arc and game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs

    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    I would think if Carnage were to feature in a sequel the movie would be called Maximum Carnage given the story arc and game.
    But to not waste the potential of the Maximum Carnage story, you'd have to throw in a whole bunch of other characters and I'm not sure if Sony has the rights to all of them. "Carnage Rules" was something Carnage wrote on the walls of his old orphanage in his own blood, so it would be a title not based on an existing story per se, but still convey that it would largely be about that character. You'd really have to build up to a Maximum Carnage story anyway, he didn't start out recruiting his family or fighting Spider-Man's squad of allies. If they're really planning on making a Sony MCU, that would be their Avengers movie.

  4. #10404
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    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs

    Quote Originally Posted by Satsuki View Post
    Apparently as usual sucking doesn't necessarily drag a movie down, as Venom has apparently made 80 million this weekend.
    In this case it seems to be that watching Venom is a fascinating experience that you tell your friends about. The real measure will be week 2 and 3.



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    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs

    Quote Originally Posted by BattleFranky69 View Post
    I am definitely glad I didn't spend my own money on Venom but I didn't hate it. Yes, it was stupid, intensely mediocre but just a hair above bad, you could smell the sweat from Sony trying to save as much on its budget as possible, and the acting wasn't even on point for the caliber of actors in the lead roles.
    All very true.

    The sparse humor did pull it back from the brink, and the personality of the symbiote did help despite being so different from the comics.
    I agree that's the highlight of the film, but I often don't know whether I'm laughing with or at the film with Venom's over-the-top sadistic goofiness and cussing. He adapts to Earth and Eddie way too fast. Which is where some tonal whiplash comes in, especially with the grounded pitiful first act before Venom shows up and compared to how the other Symbiotes only live to murder people. If Venom's... "quips" came in at the end of this movie or in a sequel after properly bonding with Brock and Earth, then I could maybe be immersed in it more.

    Suffice it to say, I am looking forward to the sequel now that the origins crap is out of the way, but only if the following are done (Spoilers revolving entirely around the mid-credits scene):


    Spoiler:
    1. It has to be rated R. It worked for Deadpool, it can work here, and for the Carnage plot, anything less is unacceptable (hell, THIS movie should have been rated R). Red Bad trailer that shit to get us pumped. Show us Woody Harrelson doing his Mickey Knox thing from Natural Born Killers again. They could even play it where Eddie has to use his investigative skills to try to get inside Kasady's head to get one step ahead and find him to put a stop to him. That way he's less like a passenger to the more assertive symbiote.
    I see your point. Rated R benefitted Logan a lot. And for a Carnage story, as much as I could cares LESS about Carnage, he will shine the most with an R rating.

    2. Give it a subtitle like Carnage Rules or something that's a reference to the comics. Lethal Protector probably won't work since that's a good storyline to use for a different film.
    lol I need to see Sony try a subtitle that sounds as stupid as that. But like Green vs Red said, it will most likely be Maximum Carnage. Which is so 90's. Almost as cringeworthy as "Maximum Clonage".

    3. Have Cletus Kasady about to be executed, with Eddie present as one of the witnesses (and Venom being like, "Can I snag one of his organs on the way out as a snack?"), and just at the moment of initiation for the whatever method of execution Kasady has requested, the spawn symbiote emerges and latches onto him. I think that would be the most dramatic moment for the bonding to occur.
    This... is... soooooooooo stupid. But that actually makes me want to see this happening.


    The motorcycle chase scene was a tad over-the-top in terms of how much collateral damage the bad guys were willing to cause (and think they'd be able to get away with) but it was a fun way to showcase most of Venom's abilities, and the evil symbiote was pretty badass. The smoke bombs and the fact that it's mostly at night do take away a lot from the visuals, though, so that wasn't fun. But I did like the symbiote (a lot more than Brock), especially that line near the end,
    Spoiler:
    "On my world I was...kind of a loser. Like you."
    That made me laugh out loud harder than anything else in the movie, and it kind of explained his choosing Eddie without needing to spend a lot of time on it, though the short runtime could have allowed for it with some flashbacks or something that didn't require any CGI.
    I don't care for car chase scenes. They always look random and cliche unless you combine it with superpowers like the final fight in Ant-Man and the Wasp and Josuke vs Highway Star in Jojo's Bizarre Adventure. But here, it was eh.

    That line, as lovably stupid as it was to hear, is a microcosm of this film's humor issue. That line feels completely rushed, out of nowhere, tone clashing when it comes to this carnivorous alien who has only been on Earth half a day at best, and childish humor that isn't grounded or ridiculously self-aware enough for me to like it.

    So yeah. I don't regret seeing it but if I had spent anything on the tickets, I would have. I'm definitely glad I had a companion with me, too, especially a fellow fan of Marvel properties.
    I wish I had a fellow superhero geek to riff the movie with in the theater. Would have made TWO VIEWINGS IN ONE DAY so much more enjoyable.

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  6. #10406

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs

    Venom isn't supposed to be the alien but their fusion. The alien is just instinct.
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  7. #10407
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    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post

    Hm... I've been tempted to give that series a try because of the praise, but I don't know. Aside from the already mentioned fact that Eddie Brock as a protagonist just isn't interesting (especially compared to Flash Thompson), every big reveal I hear from Donny Cates' run sounds like it comes from a rushed try-hard fan fiction.
    fitting a lot of things into a 6 issue story arc can be a challenge, and I feel at that rate it's extremely difficult to have the slow build-up you're expecting, so that's probably a valid criticism if you're familiar with Venom/Spiderman stuff? I say that as a question because I don't know.

    Knowing your posts, I'm assuming you're focusing more on the "Rushed, try-hard" part, and not so much "fan fiction". I don't find anything wrong with fan fic, I feel like that gets a lot of bad rap because of the notorious amount of awful fan fiction (of any fandom) out there. Much like there's a lot of bad material in any genre.

    If I'm not mistaken, the Symbiotes were created by some badass villain god who created all of space and that one godkiller black sword from Thor because those are all black things and so it makes complete sense they're related to the same source, Symbiotes have been on Earth prior to Venom all along and fought soldier Wolverine because random history revision conspiracies are cool, there's a Symbiote dragon with red crazy swirl eyes just because, and Venom's white spider logo is actually a dragon which totally doesn't sound forced at all and he can summon wings now. And apparently Eddie and the Symbiote just died, but we know that isn't going to last.
    So the Thor aspect I'm really not familiar with. I liked that inclusion in the story, but I haven't read that Thor story arc, or any Thor for that matter, so I can't really comment on that intersection. I can see the dragon being kinda random, but I think I don't care in the context that we have a symbiote god involved. And the wings have a plausible explanation that fit within the logic of the venom symbiote, so I was okay with that. Agreed on the spider-dragon logo though, that's too much of a stretch.

    As for the fate of Brock and Symbiote:
    Spoiler:
    Brock didn't die, but the symbiote apparently didů and I agree that it's a hollow cliffhanger. No Marvel character defeats Status Quo that easily.



    Granted, it's easy for me to trash a comic I haven't read in full. And the Symbiote race backstory has never truly been fully explored, so none of this is technically "inconsistent". But apparently it's only six issues long so far, yet all of this has already been revealed, so something in me doubts there's compelling build-up or character studies going on here to complement all of this huge sudden worldbuilding.
    I haven't read Venom/Spider-man before this, so from my perspective it was like being introduced to this world without any expectation or baggage. So I suppose that's why it didn't feel so rushed to me.

    Giving it the full benefit of the doubt, I can't tell whether this book is popular because it's told well or because everything about its plot developments sound like a wet dream for the average Venom fanboy. But feel free to convince me otherwise if I'm not giving it a fair chance.

    And about Miles showing up... Does he actually contribute anything meaningful to the story besides being a stand-in quippy/geeky Peter Parker and defeating powerful villains with a couple Venom Blasts? I'd really like to see that get switched up at least once.
    I think you've been exposed mainly to the big flashy concepts of the story, but the narration and character development deserve good credit, too. I love Cates as a writer (in fact he's the only reason I picked up the Venom story) particularly because he does a great balance of crazy ideas and character development (You should read God Country by Cates, I love that one to death). There's definitely some development between Brock and the Symbiote, though I assume that's been attempted/done before? Either way, I thought it was good.

    As for Miles, he's in for essentially one issue and helps out for a bit (with some sonic grenades or whatever), but after that he doesn't really serve much of a purpose.

  8. #10408
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    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    All very true.


    I agree that's the highlight of the film, but I often don't know whether I'm laughing with or at the film with Venom's over-the-top sadistic goofiness and cussing. He adapts to Earth and Eddie way too fast. Which is where some tonal whiplash comes in, especially with the grounded pitiful first act before Venom shows up and compared to how the other Symbiotes only live to murder people. If Venom's... "quips" came in at the end of this movie or in a sequel after properly bonding with Brock and Earth, then I could maybe be immersed in it more.
    If the symbiotes could talk without having to be bonded to something, that may have helped, but yeah, we have to literally wait half the movie to actually get to meet/know Venom. It's not like Peter Parker getting bit by the spider and becoming Spider-Man, it's still him, but in Venom, Eddie Brock and the symbiote are two distinct characters. They really ought to have fully grasped that concept before writing one word of the script. In the comics, Eddie's symbiote is considered 'insane' by the rest of the species because it doesn't just parasite off its hosts, it prolongs their existence and, in effect, its own. That being said...
    Spoiler:
    Having something like that happen in the film, where all the medical tests on Eddie showing that he was having some kind of cancer develop and the timing of the symbiote bonding with him has made it go away would show that Venom really is taking care of him and not, as was so confusing, actually eating away at him like with all the other dead hosts. What was the point of that huge argument if there was never a resolution to it?



    Spoiler:

    I see your point. Rated R benefitted Logan a lot. And for a Carnage story, as much as I could cares LESS about Carnage, he will shine the most with an R rating.
    I mean, if it wasn't Carnage, there'd be no reason to go hard R. But you can't make the red menace menacing without showing how hardcore he can get. It would also help if they were able to drop more than one minor F-bomb.

    lol I need to see Sony try a subtitle that sounds as stupid as that. But like Green vs Red said, it will most likely be Maximum Carnage. Which is so 90's. Almost as cringeworthy as "Maximum Clonage".
    Eh, I guess I'll accept that (since this universe will be so limited in scope they'll never get close to being able to do an actual Maximum Carnage adaptation). I don't get what you find stupid about the names though, care to elaborate?


    This... is... soooooooooo stupid. But that actually makes me want to see this happening.
    Again, what do you find stupid, specifically? I'm just at a loss as to what could be coming across that way. I'd accept a critical adjective like 'cliche' or 'predictable' without a gripe, but just 'stupid'? That's just not making sense to me unless you meant one or both of those others and just didn't want to write a longer word.



    I don't care for car chase scenes. They always look random and cliche unless you combine it with superpowers like the final fight in Ant-Man and the Wasp and Josuke vs Highway Star in Jojo's Bizarre Adventure. But here, it was eh.
    Well you can't argue that there wasn't that, there were numerous uses of his superpowers coming into play during the chase. Although it was after the chase ended and he was just moronically jumping on and crushing multiple other cars as he was fleeing the scene when the pursuit was already over with, so THAT part was without a doubt, in a word, stupid.

    That line, as lovably stupid as it was to hear, is a microcosm of this film's humor issue. That line feels completely rushed, out of nowhere, tone clashing when it comes to this carnivorous alien who has only been on Earth half a day at best, and childish humor that isn't grounded or ridiculously self-aware enough for me to like it.
    I think it was both the tone and timing that helped it work in that instance. I really liked the voice actor for Venom's delivery and the writing of its lines, they really made the portrayal of the symbiote character the biggest highlight of the film. It did boil down to meaningless in the end because we never really get a glimpse of symbiote society so we can't tell if he was bullshitting or not but the gesture was nice.


    I wish I had a fellow superhero geek to riff the movie with in the theater. Would have made TWO VIEWINGS IN ONE DAY so much more enjoyable.
    Normally the person I go with isn't into the mythos but he loves a good spectacle, but this was one of the rare opportunities to get to go with a fellow geek. As soon as the credits started to roll and we were anticipating the mid-credits scene, he turns to me and says, "I hope it shows what I think it's going to." And I was like, "You know it will." And sure enough, not only was it that, but a returning favorite from the only other Ruben Fleischer film I've seen, Zombieland, was there in the absolute most perfect casting choice. But the theater was really crowded so there wasn't much room for riffing. The only real riffing was at the very end where I was like,
    Spoiler:
    "Where the hell did the guy's body go?" The dude in the convenience store just literally disappeared and there was no blood anywhere. If he got swallowed whole I don't think it could have been digested that quickly, and if it was just his head that got eaten, we should have seen the headless cadaver and probably a puddle of blood. I get it was literally the last 30 seconds of the film but seriously, no one thought about that?

  9. #10409
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    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs

    Quote Originally Posted by BattleFranky69 View Post
    If the symbiotes could talk without having to be bonded to something, that may have helped, but yeah, we have to literally wait half the movie to actually get to meet/know Venom. It's not like Peter Parker getting bit by the spider and becoming Spider-Man, it's still him, but in Venom, Eddie Brock and the symbiote are two distinct characters. They really ought to have fully grasped that concept before writing one word of the script. In the comics, Eddie's symbiote is considered 'insane' by the rest of the species because it doesn't just parasite off its hosts, it prolongs their existence and, in effect, its own. That being said...
    Spoiler:
    Having something like that happen in the film, where all the medical tests on Eddie showing that he was having some kind of cancer develop and the timing of the symbiote bonding with him has made it go away would show that Venom really is taking care of him and not, as was so confusing, actually eating away at him like with all the other dead hosts. What was the point of that huge argument if there was never a resolution to it?
    I agree with all of this. I like the cancer idea. And they could have even foreshadowed the talking by having patients complain about hearing voices.

    Spoiler:



    I mean, if it wasn't Carnage, there'd be no reason to go hard R. But you can't make the red menace menacing without showing how hardcore he can get. It would also help if they were able to drop more than one minor F-bomb.



    Eh, I guess I'll accept that (since this universe will be so limited in scope they'll never get close to being able to do an actual Maximum Carnage adaptation). I don't get what you find stupid about the names though, care to elaborate?
    The Symbiotes in this universe are an alien race that already call themselves edgy English names. Whereas in the comics, they come about as a result of these Symbiotes bonding with humans and using these names for their fusion, not the Symbiotes themselves. Venom usually calls himself venom because he's poison to Peter Parker, Carnage calls himself carnage because he has a killing fetish or whatever, etc., but the aliens just have these names already. It makes me laugh because it sounds do randomly 90's try-hard for an alien species to do this lol. It's like an alien race invading Earth and revealing that all their names are coincidentally named after street gangs or famous criminals.

    This is what Maxdexter was pointing out earlier.


    Again, what do you find stupid, specifically? I'm just at a loss as to what could be coming across that way. I'd accept a critical adjective like 'cliche' or 'predictable' without a gripe, but just 'stupid'? That's just not making sense to me unless you meant one or both of those others and just didn't want to write a longer word.
    Venom is one of those special movies where I can't apply as much critical thought as I can usually do because it usually requires a movie having some sort of understandable creative vision to begin with, and me criticizing the faulty or unnecessary methods it uses to achieve that. Venom is a movie where I question literally every single choice it made in production and still don't know what on earth it was exactly going for. So there comes a point where the only adjective I can use to describe certain elements about is just.... "stupid" or "juvenile". Because that's kind of what you have to be to scriptwrite and approve of a movie like this. Not that I mind moments or series that embrace those elements purposefully, but I don't think Venom is self-conscious to be doing even that.

    But getting back to your main point. Your idea is that when Eddie Brock arrives back in prison to watch Cletus' execution, the Venom Symbiote will be hungry as usual and want to snack on this murderer's internal organs during the procedure. I'm guessing this is supposed to be funny, but it's too contrived for that kind of effect on me. Anyways, before Venom can feast on Cletus' insides, he accidentally asexually gives birth to a spawn that will bond with Cletus and become Venom's arch-nemesis.

    Read over that in a script-esque format in your head and try telling me that doesn't sound like a scene in a superhero parody YouTube video than an actual superhero movie we're supposed to take at least somewhat seriously.

    I can't really use adjectives like "cliche" or "predictable" as critiques (the result very predictable though) because... the whole idea is bad. Because it just sounds stupid. Your archenemy is created because one half of you wanted to eat parts of him during his execution, and accidentally gives birth to something that gives them your brand of superpowers. I could call that "reckless", "irresponsible", "overly convenient", "random", "disgusting", or "funny" (but I don't think the creation of your arch-enemy as a serial killer monster we're supposed to take mostly seriously is funny for the right reasons)...

    But really, the best way to describe is that it's a stupid idea that has no right to exist for a stupid film that has no right to exist. And that is exactly what Venom is. So it fits. You have to be willfully ignorant or careless about your creative work to make such an idea.

    This is not an insult towards you specifically by the way. Not at all. Your idea makes sense in that it's consistent with what the first film is like. Venom is hungry and constantly craving human snacks all of the time. Venom gave birth to Carnage in prison like in the comics, but there's no way for Eddie to be his cellmate in this universe unless something presumably stupid (noticing a pattern here) happens during the first act of Venom. A serial killer like Cletus is bound to receive capital punishment in a fictional universe not accurately portraying how the death penalty is banned in most states, including San Francisco, California.

    And considering how in the first Venom we have scenes like Eddie jumping into a lobster tank to eat a live lobster in public, Eddie Brock randomly talking about how Symbiotes are up his and Carlton Drake's asses during what is supposed to be an intimidating interrogation scene, Venom possessing a small dog and then Eddie's ex-wife so that he can transfer the Symbiote back to Eddie by kissing him for whatever reason other than to deprive Anne of her integrity for rightfully breaking up with someone who broke into her laptop for confidential information and approached a client on what was supposed to be a puff piece which cost Anne her job, and Venom has this really weird kink for putting down Eddie but relating to him because he's somehow "sort of a loser" back on his home planet, and Venom comes back from the dead just because...

    Yes, I can fully believe your idea can happen. And at this point, I only want to laugh at how many stupid moments the sequel can get away with now that it's past boring cliche origin story conventions. I don't mean to sound angry or passive aggressive, I am literally mind boggled by this film's existence and can hardly use critical terms to describe how it can be improved because almost about it is just so, so stupid to begin with on paper.


    Well you can't argue that there wasn't that, there were numerous uses of his superpowers coming into play during the chase. Although it was after the chase ended and he was just moronically jumping on and crushing multiple other cars as he was fleeing the scene when the pursuit was already over with, so THAT part was without a doubt, in a word, stupid.
    There were superpowers, but it just didn't wow me. It was the usual stretching cars closer/farther, shields, and leaping that I expected. It didn't surprise me like the motorcycle scene in Incredibles 2 did by playing with Elastgirl's powers and a motorcycle split in half or Ant-Man and the Wasp playing with shrinking/growing/flight powers versus intangibility powers on the road.

    The escape was stupid, but that is actually one of the rare moments I like for capturing how powerful, fast, and brutal Venom is. Same for seeing him climb the skyscraper. It made me wish we could see him as an MCU Spider-Man villain instead of... whatever this movie was.

    I think it was both the tone and timing that helped it work in that instance. I really liked the voice actor for Venom's delivery and the writing of its lines, they really made the portrayal of the symbiote character the biggest highlight of the film. It did boil down to meaningless in the end because we never really get a glimpse of symbiote society so we can't tell if he was bullshitting or not but the gesture was nice.
    The Symbiote is the biggest highlight, but for the wrong reasons in my opinion lol. I can't take whatever Venom says seriously at all. Even when it's a comedy scene, its personality feels so obnoxious that I'm laughing AT the movie than with the movie.

    Normally the person I go with isn't into the mythos but he loves a good spectacle, but this was one of the rare opportunities to get to go with a fellow geek. As soon as the credits started to roll and we were anticipating the mid-credits scene, he turns to me and says, "I hope it shows what I think it's going to." And I was like, "You know it will." And sure enough, not only was it that, but a returning favorite from the only other Ruben Fleischer film I've seen, Zombieland, was there in the absolute most perfect casting choice. But the theater was really crowded so there wasn't much room for riffing. The only real riffing was at the very end where I was like,
    Spoiler:
    "Where the hell did the guy's body go?" The dude in the convenience store just literally disappeared and there was no blood anywhere. If he got swallowed whole I don't think it could have been digested that quickly, and if it was just his head that got eaten, we should have seen the headless cadaver and probably a puddle of blood. I get it was literally the last 30 seconds of the film but seriously, no one thought about that?
    I thought about that. And how weirdly calm the clerk was after seeing that. And I can't help but wonder whether or not Eddie is actually digesting human heads or it's just the Symbiote doing that.
    Last edited by Count Mario; October 9th, 2018 at 03:19 PM.

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    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs

    Spoiler:

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    I agree with all of this. I like the cancer idea. And they could have even foreshadowed the talking by having patients complain about hearing voices.
    It just sure as hell would have made more sense than that convoluted crap they had in the movie where it wasn't possible to determine whether the doctor or the symbiote was telling Eddie the truth, and if the former, how to get around the problem that creates. It was left both unknown AND unresolved in either case.


    The Symbiotes in this universe are an alien race that already call themselves edgy English names.
    That makes it both funny and stupid, but not logical or cool like in the comics.

    Whereas in the comics, they come about as a result of these Symbiotes bonding with humans and using these names for their fusion, not the Symbiotes themselves. Venom usually calls himself venom because he's poison to Peter Parker, Carnage calls himself carnage because he has a killing fetish or whatever, etc., but the aliens just have these names already. It makes me laugh because it sounds do randomly 90's try-hard for an alien species to do this lol. It's like an alien race invading Earth and revealing that all their names are coincidentally named after street gangs or famous criminals.
    The yellow one might as well have called itself Howard the Duck. Or Usagi Yojimbo, considering what it bonded to.

    Venom is one of those special movies where I can't apply as much critical thought as I can usually do because it usually requires a movie having some sort of understandable creative vision to begin with, and me criticizing the faulty or unnecessary methods it uses to achieve that. Venom is a movie where I question literally every single choice it made in production and still don't know what on earth it was exactly going for. So there comes a point where the only adjective I can use to describe certain elements about is just.... "stupid" or "juvenile". Because that's kind of what you have to be to scriptwrite and approve of a movie like this. Not that I mind moments or series that embrace those elements purposefully, but I don't think Venom is self-conscious to be doing even that.
    It really did hit painfully home that at no point did anyone at Sony get help from Marvel to make this thing. You'd think Disney would have a stake in making one of its associated properties NOT suck and harm the franchise as a whole, especially a villain of their biggest-merchandising hero.

    But getting back to your main point. Your idea is that when Eddie Brock arrives back in prison to watch Cletus' execution, the Venom Symbiote will be hungry as usual and want to snack on this murderer's internal organs during the procedure. I'm guessing this is supposed to be funny, but it's too contrived for that kind of effect on me. Anyways, before Venom can feast on Cletus' insides, he accidentally asexually gives birth to a spawn that will bond with Cletus and become Venom's arch-nemesis.
    That first bit was just a comedic gag so that what should be a moment where everyone is silent and solemn has the irreverent symbiote being both rudely inappropriate and grotesquely crass. Contrived, yes, I'll cop to that (but thank you for admitting the subjectivity of your own taste there) but fitting considering how they've established the symbiote character so far. Even if half-jokingly, it wouldn't have been the reason it spawns a symbiote right there, it just happens coincidentally at about the same time. Hell, the 'birth' could take place in the bathroom while Eddie's taking a leak before having a seat in the witness room to view the execution. Since in the comics, the symbiotes don't give a crap about their offspring, it probably wouldn't even tell Eddie, trusting the newborn to not figure out it has to latch onto something native to that planet to not die of exposure, only figuring out too late that it bonded with the worst human being it possibly could have.

    Read over that in a script-esque format in your head and try telling me that doesn't sound like a scene in a superhero parody YouTube video than an actual superhero movie we're supposed to take at least somewhat seriously.
    Since the bonding has to occur at some point, and we would presumably all prefer that it happen on-screen (although admittedly it didn't happen directly on-panel in the comics), I don't see why that of all times for it to occur is particularly poor, unless that's only when in conjunction with the contrived gag. Getting Eddie into close proximity with Kasady after he's already done an interview with him (is this expected to be a routine thing otherwise? That would seem more contrived and forced than attending the execution, I would think) would work by having the execution be the setting for their next/final encounter until things go off the rails.

    I can't really use adjectives like "cliche" or "predictable" as critiques (the result very predictable though) because... the whole idea is bad. Because it just sounds stupid. Your archenemy is created because one half of you wanted to eat parts of him during his execution,
    Nothing about it implied 'because', so I have no idea how you gleaned that from there. It was just a gag that happened to pop into my head since they would be around a soon-to-be-dead body that Venom wasn't responsible for killing.

    and accidentally gives birth to something that gives them your brand of superpowers. I could call that "reckless", "irresponsible", "overly convenient", "random", "disgusting", or "funny" (but I don't think the creation of your arch-enemy as a serial killer monster we're supposed to take mostly seriously is funny for the right reasons)...
    Going in with the mindset that there's no way Carnage is going to be his arch-enemy since he'll have to die at the end of this rather than living to fight another day, as most comic book enemies typically do. But that aside, you're basically pointing out exactly how it happened in the comics. The entire movie wouldn't exist if not for the event being 'overly convenient' so I really don't know what you want other than to lob further criticism grenades at this movie to the point where you're punishing its unborn offspring as well.

    But really, the best way to describe is that it's a stupid idea that has no right to exist for a stupid film that has no right to exist. And that is exactly what Venom is. So it fits. You have to be willfully ignorant or careless about your creative work to make such an idea.
    So it's more that you just hate the film so much that anything that tangentially relates to it is also deserving of your, pun intended, venom. You could have just said so instead of making it sound like you were that opposed to the idea as it exists in a vacuum.

    This is not an insult towards you specifically by the way. Not at all. Your idea makes sense in that it's consistent with what the first film is like. Venom is hungry and constantly craving human snacks all of the time. Venom gave birth to Carnage in prison like in the comics, but there's no way for Eddie to be his cellmate in this universe unless something presumably stupid (noticing a pattern here) happens during the first act of Venom. A serial killer like Cletus is bound to receive capital punishment in a fictional universe not accurately portraying how the death penalty is banned in most states, including San Francisco, California.
    Well I get that NOW. And like I said, attending something like an execution would be the least contrived way of getting Eddie back in proximity to the guy in order for the spawn symbiote to latch onto him. Otherwise what, are they weekly pen pals? Is he going to be transported to an alternate location and the armored vehicle flips over en route due to some freak accident, which also happens to hit Eddie on his motorcycle, and as Venom's putting Eddie's body back together, it poops out the Carnage symbiote? There's really no way to make the circumstances work without being contrived, although I think it's an overly critical eye that's judging these things (though well-motivated, as the filmmakers have severely limited their own scope). A change of venue to take Kasady to a place that was willing and able to execute him would be of benefit as well since we wouldn't have the same exact city for them to rampage through. Hell, can you imagine them doing this in Texas? The possibilities for social commentary are massive given their historical stance on violence and the death penalty.

    And considering how in the first Venom we have scenes like Eddie jumping into a lobster tank to eat a live lobster in public, Eddie Brock randomly talking about how Symbiotes are up his and Carlton Drake's asses during what is supposed to be an intimidating interrogation scene, Venom possessing a small dog and then Eddie's ex-wife so that he can transfer the Symbiote back to Eddie by kissing him for whatever reason other than to deprive Anne of her integrity for rightfully breaking up with someone who broke into her laptop for confidential information and approached a client on what was supposed to be a puff piece which cost Anne her job, and Venom has this really weird kink for putting down Eddie but relating to him because he's somehow "sort of a loser" back on his home planet, and Venom comes back from the dead just because...
    LOL, I forgot about the 'up the ass' gags. And yeah, the rest of those were all what helped make the movie crappier. It just had a few things that kept it from being a complete waste of time.

    Yes, I can fully believe your idea can happen. And at this point, I only want to laugh at how many stupid moments the sequel can get away with now that it's past boring cliche origin story conventions. I don't mean to sound angry or passive aggressive, I am literally mind boggled by this film's existence and can hardly use critical terms to describe how it can be improved because almost about it is just so, so stupid to begin with on paper.
    I mean, it totally sounded angry and passive-aggressive there, there's just no way around that, but I'm glad you took the time to explain why, though it still doesn't entirely make sense to me.


    There were superpowers, but it just didn't wow me. It was the usual stretching cars closer/farther, shields, and leaping that I expected. It didn't surprise me like the motorcycle scene in Incredibles 2 did by playing with Elastgirl's powers and a motorcycle split in half or Ant-Man and the Wasp playing with shrinking/growing/flight powers versus intangibility powers on the road.
    I didn't see Incredibles 2 yet, but I'm looking forward to it. But now that we're pretty much beyond the point of needing vehicles, I hope we'll see Venom doing some authentic web-slinging rather than doing the sabertooth-wall-climbing thing from X-Men Origins Wolverine.

    The escape was stupid, but that is actually one of the rare moments I like for capturing how powerful, fast, and brutal Venom is. Same for seeing him climb the skyscraper. It made me wish we could see him as an MCU Spider-Man villain instead of... whatever this movie was.
    I didn't think the chase especially showcased the brutality or power, but definitely the speed. It was more the aftermath of the chase that showed the other two features. I did like the fight against the SWAT team where he picked up one guy and used him as a club. Too bad the whole scene was filled with smoke to save on CGI.


    The Symbiote is the biggest highlight, but for the wrong reasons in my opinion lol. I can't take whatever Venom says seriously at all. Even when it's a comedy scene, its personality feels so obnoxious that I'm laughing AT the movie than with the movie.
    I mean, given the choice between that and it being only inside the head of Eddie and him responding to it without us hearing what it's saying, I'm glad we got the one where we hear it talking. But they needed to establish the symbiote as a character sooner, not half-way through the damn movie.

    I thought about that. And how weirdly calm the clerk was after seeing that. And I can't help but wonder whether or not Eddie is actually digesting human heads or it's just the Symbiote doing that.
    Seriously, someone could have asked the checkstand lady, "Do you even human?" But how quickly does Venom digest heads/other human parts? And is it necessary for it to consume them in order to not be wearing down Eddie's organs like the doctor guy had tried to warn him about? I bet anything they're going to just tiptoe around that in the next one, but WHY BRING THAT UP IN THIS ONE THEN?! So annoying. And it would have been so easy to just have him with cancer and the symbiote healing him from it, showing that it's not just talk, and that it's benefiting him instead of parasitizing him. That would show exactly how indignant it should get at being called a parasite instead of its pride.

  11. #10411
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    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs

    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by BattleFranky69 View Post
    It just sure as hell would have made more sense than that convoluted crap they had in the movie where it wasn't possible to determine whether the doctor or the symbiote was telling Eddie the truth, and if the former, how to get around the problem that creates. It was left both unknown AND unresolved in either case.
    Indeed.

    That makes it both funny and stupid, but not logical or cool like in the comics.
    Wow, that defines the entire movie. Although that might be giving Eddie Brock Venom too much credit since he's overrated in any and every medium. The best rendition I've seen of him is in Spectacular Spider-Man, and I still have problems with that interpretation.


    The yellow one might as well have called itself Howard the Duck. Or Usagi Yojimbo, considering what it bonded to.
    lol I love how a bunch of homeless humans get rejected for whatever random reason but a rabbit, a loser reporter, said loser reporter's ex-girlfriend, and not Elon Musk are prime hosts. Actually, come to think of it... Why exactly does Venom need to return to Eddie after bonding with Anne? She-Venom seems like she can handle herself fine. Aside from possibly being "weaker" because She-Venom's not as muscly. I guess it was for the sake of their rushed bonding and keeping Eddie relevant for the sake of it.


    It really did hit painfully home that at no point did anyone at Sony get help from Marvel to make this thing. You'd think Disney would have a stake in making one of its associated properties NOT suck and harm the franchise as a whole, especially a villain of their biggest-merchandising hero.
    I just read a news article about how the Kraven movie may be based on Kraven's Last Hunt, could have Spider-Man appear in it, and might be a two-parter like Infinity War. I don't even know where to begin with that... But honestly speaking, I think a Kraven's Last Hunt movie told from Kraven's perspective COULD work if it builds on him being in at least one previous Spider-Man movie and actually has good writers on board.


    That first bit was just a comedic gag so that what should be a moment where everyone is silent and solemn has the irreverent symbiote being both rudely inappropriate and grotesquely crass. Contrived, yes, I'll cop to that (but thank you for admitting the subjectivity of your own taste there) but fitting considering how they've established the symbiote character so far. Even if half-jokingly, it wouldn't have been the reason it spawns a symbiote right there, it just happens coincidentally at about the same time. Hell, the 'birth' could take place in the bathroom while Eddie's taking a leak before having a seat in the witness room to view the execution. Since in the comics, the symbiotes don't give a crap about their offspring, it probably wouldn't even tell Eddie, trusting the newborn to not figure out it has to latch onto something native to that planet to not die of exposure, only figuring out too late that it bonded with the worst human being it possibly could have.
    This is possible. And makes sense.


    Since the bonding has to occur at some point, and we would presumably all prefer that it happen on-screen (although admittedly it didn't happen directly on-panel in the comics), I don't see why that of all times for it to occur is particularly poor, unless that's only when in conjunction with the contrived gag. Getting Eddie into close proximity with Kasady after he's already done an interview with him (is this expected to be a routine thing otherwise? That would seem more contrived and forced than attending the execution, I would think) would work by having the execution be the setting for their next/final encounter until things go off the rails.
    My issue isn't the timing not making sense so much as the idea that Venom's greatest threat will be created because he wanted to snack on a soon-to-be-dead criminal's internal organs while being pregnant, and various circumstances making him give birth at that moment to his greatest enemy. The concept can totally happen. It can line up well and Venom has these kinds of impulses. But I personally can't take that seriously in the slightest because it's so silly. Creating your worst enemy because you're hungry for death row inmate organs while being pregnant, even if there are other factors, defines silly for me. And that will affect my impression of Carnage as an antagonist no matter how intimidating he is. You meant this as a joke, but... I could actually see this happening. XD


    Nothing about it implied 'because', so I have no idea how you gleaned that from there. It was just a gag that happened to pop into my head since they would be around a soon-to-be-dead body that Venom wasn't responsible for killing.
    It's a good gag. I was having too much fun with how it is ironically possible because of how much it fits with the first movie's established tone, plot scripting style, and character behavior.


    Going in with the mindset that there's no way Carnage is going to be his arch-enemy since he'll have to die at the end of this rather than living to fight another day, as most comic book enemies typically do. But that aside, you're basically pointing out exactly how it happened in the comics. The entire movie wouldn't exist if not for the event being 'overly convenient' so I really don't know what you want other than to lob further criticism grenades at this movie to the point where you're punishing its unborn offspring as well.
    I count arch enemies as archenemies whether they die quickly or not, but that's getting into semantics. Let's just use "greatest enemy" since we know there isn't a greater enemy for Venom in the comics besides Spider-Man (who will never show up) maybe the Symbiote God called Numbskull or something (can't remember the name right now) in the current comic book run.


    So it's more that you just hate the film so much that anything that tangentially relates to it is also deserving of your, pun intended, venom. You could have just said so instead of making it sound like you were that opposed to the idea as it exists in a vacuum.
    It's more that I'm convinced this movie is built with dumb ideas to the point that anything consistently extending from those dumb ideas is going to be dumb as a result unless the creative direction drastically changes. But yeah, I like trashing this movie too lol.

    Well I get that NOW. And like I said, attending something like an execution would be the least contrived way of getting Eddie back in proximity to the guy in order for the spawn symbiote to latch onto him. Otherwise what, are they weekly pen pals? Is he going to be transported to an alternate location and the armored vehicle flips over en route due to some freak accident, which also happens to hit Eddie on his motorcycle, and as Venom's putting Eddie's body back together, it poops out the Carnage symbiote? There's really no way to make the circumstances work without being contrived, although I think it's an overly critical eye that's judging these things (though well-motivated, as the filmmakers have severely limited their own scope). A change of venue to take Kasady to a place that was willing and able to execute him would be of benefit as well since we wouldn't have the same exact city for them to rampage through. Hell, can you imagine them doing this in Texas? The possibilities for social commentary are massive given their historical stance on violence and the death penalty.
    It's the movie's fault for creating a position like this.

    And your idea makes me want to see an Eddie Brock Vice documentary about capital punishment while the Symbiote keeps calling Eddie a coward.

    LOL, I forgot about the 'up the ass' gags. And yeah, the rest of those were all what helped make the movie crappier. It just had a few things that kept it from being a complete waste of time.
    I can agree with that. Sort of. Whether or not I think Venom makes sense, I will never forget how ridiculous his gags are. For better or worse. I'd rather take a memorably flawed movie over a boring forgettable mediocre one.

    I mean, it totally sounded angry and passive-aggressive there, there's just no way around that, but I'm glad you took the time to explain why, though it still doesn't entirely make sense to me.
    Okay, my rambling was over-the-top there. I didn't need to take your gag so seriously. But that's what happens when I have to sit through this kind of movie twice in one day and have to vent my passive aggressive thoughts. I'm sorry becoming so volatile. Although I maintain my opinion that this is a stupid movie where the quality speaks for itself.

    But joke or not, I expect Cletus to retrieve his Symbiote in a goofy contrived way. Whether or not the movie can be blamed for that given how Eddie is not a prisoner is squarely the movie's fault.

    I didn't see Incredibles 2 yet, but I'm looking forward to it. But now that we're pretty much beyond the point of needing vehicles, I hope we'll see Venom doing some authentic web-slinging rather than doing the sabertooth-wall-climbing thing from X-Men Origins Wolverine.
    I liked the wall crawling, but I would like some web swinging. Although imagining Venom's bulky ass web swinging in live-action feels a little awkward to me.


    I didn't think the chase especially showcased the brutality or power, but definitely the speed. It was more the aftermath of the chase that showed the other two features. I did like the fight against the SWAT team where he picked up one guy and used him as a club. Too bad the whole scene was filled with smoke to save on CGI.
    I was only talking about the end of the chase when Venom fully formed. I barely remember what even happened before then.

    The SWAT team fight was pretty neat. I wish they did that cheesy thing where a soldier throws a grenade at a monster and the monster either bites it without suffering damage or just swallows it. A smoke grenade at least since a regular grenade's explosion heat should harm the Symbiote.

    I mean, given the choice between that and it being only inside the head of Eddie and him responding to it without us hearing what it's saying, I'm glad we got the one where we hear it talking. But they needed to establish the symbiote as a character sooner, not half-way through the damn movie.
    I like to imagine a version of this movie where we already start out with Venom being formed and Eddie's screw up past either being kept mostly a mystery gradually unraveled. Maybe even with the cancer plot thrown in. Rather than that first half hour of nothing but Eddie being a loser and Evil McEvil CEO manipulating people with arbitrary Bible/god complex interpretations.

    Seriously, someone could have asked the checkstand lady, "Do you even human?" But how quickly does Venom digest heads/other human parts? And is it necessary for it to consume them in order to not be wearing down Eddie's organs like the doctor guy had tried to warn him about? I bet anything they're going to just tiptoe around that in the next one, but WHY BRING THAT UP IN THIS ONE THEN?! So annoying. And it would have been so easy to just have him with cancer and the symbiote healing him from it, showing that it's not just talk, and that it's benefiting him instead of parasitizing him. That would show exactly how indignant it should get at being called a parasite instead of its pride.
    And another thing. Venom says he wants tater tots and chocolate at the end of the film. In the comics, they explain how Venom likes these foods because they contain dopamine, a substitute for dopamine from the brains Venom loves to consume. But in the movie, it's a throwaway line.

    I like the idea of Venom disliking parasite labeling because he's healing cancer a LOT.

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  12. #10412
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    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    Spoiler:

    Indeed.


    Wow, that defines the entire movie. Although that might be giving Eddie Brock Venom too much credit since he's overrated in any and every medium. The best rendition I've seen of him is in Spectacular Spider-Man, and I still have problems with that interpretation.



    lol I love how a bunch of homeless humans get rejected for whatever random reason but a rabbit, a loser reporter, said loser reporter's ex-girlfriend, and not Elon Musk are prime hosts. Actually, come to think of it... Why exactly does Venom need to return to Eddie after bonding with Anne? She-Venom seems like she can handle herself fine. Aside from possibly being "weaker" because She-Venom's not as muscly. I guess it was for the sake of their rushed bonding and keeping Eddie relevant for the sake of it.



    I just read a news article about how the Kraven movie may be based on Kraven's Last Hunt, could have Spider-Man appear in it, and might be a two-parter like Infinity War. I don't even know where to begin with that... But honestly speaking, I think a Kraven's Last Hunt movie told from Kraven's perspective COULD work if it builds on him being in at least one previous Spider-Man movie and actually has good writers on board.



    This is possible. And makes sense.



    My issue isn't the timing not making sense so much as the idea that Venom's greatest threat will be created because he wanted to snack on a soon-to-be-dead criminal's internal organs while being pregnant, and various circumstances making him give birth at that moment to his greatest enemy. The concept can totally happen. It can line up well and Venom has these kinds of impulses. But I personally can't take that seriously in the slightest because it's so silly. Creating your worst enemy because you're hungry for death row inmate organs while being pregnant, even if there are other factors, defines silly for me. And that will affect my impression of Carnage as an antagonist no matter how intimidating he is. You meant this as a joke, but... I could actually see this happening. XD



    It's a good gag. I was having too much fun with how it is ironically possible because of how much it fits with the first movie's established tone, plot scripting style, and character behavior.



    I count arch enemies as archenemies whether they die quickly or not, but that's getting into semantics. Let's just use "greatest enemy" since we know there isn't a greater enemy for Venom in the comics besides Spider-Man (who will never show up) maybe the Symbiote God called Numbskull or something (can't remember the name right now) in the current comic book run.



    It's more that I'm convinced this movie is built with dumb ideas to the point that anything consistently extending from those dumb ideas is going to be dumb as a result unless the creative direction drastically changes. But yeah, I like trashing this movie too lol.


    It's the movie's fault for creating a position like this.

    And your idea makes me want to see an Eddie Brock Vice documentary about capital punishment while the Symbiote keeps calling Eddie a coward.


    I can agree with that. Sort of. Whether or not I think Venom makes sense, I will never forget how ridiculous his gags are. For better or worse. I'd rather take a memorably flawed movie over a boring forgettable mediocre one.


    Okay, my rambling was over-the-top there. I didn't need to take your gag so seriously. But that's what happens when I have to sit through this kind of movie twice in one day and have to vent my passive aggressive thoughts. I'm sorry becoming so volatile. Although I maintain my opinion that this is a stupid movie where the quality speaks for itself.

    But joke or not, I expect Cletus to retrieve his Symbiote in a goofy contrived way. Whether or not the movie can be blamed for that given how Eddie is not a prisoner is squarely the movie's fault.


    I liked the wall crawling, but I would like some web swinging. Although imagining Venom's bulky ass web swinging in live-action feels a little awkward to me.



    I was only talking about the end of the chase when Venom fully formed. I barely remember what even happened before then.

    The SWAT team fight was pretty neat. I wish they did that cheesy thing where a soldier throws a grenade at a monster and the monster either bites it without suffering damage or just swallows it. A smoke grenade at least since a regular grenade's explosion heat should harm the Symbiote.


    I like to imagine a version of this movie where we already start out with Venom being formed and Eddie's screw up past either being kept mostly a mystery gradually unraveled. Maybe even with the cancer plot thrown in. Rather than that first half hour of nothing but Eddie being a loser and Evil McEvil CEO manipulating people with arbitrary Bible/god complex interpretations.


    And another thing. Venom says he wants tater tots and chocolate at the end of the film. In the comics, they explain how Venom likes these foods because they contain dopamine, a substitute for dopamine from the brains Venom loves to consume. But in the movie, it's a throwaway line.

    I like the idea of Venom disliking parasite labeling because he's healing cancer a LOT.
    The biggest problem was that it was more of an Eddie Brock movie than a Venom movie. That one thing slowed down the entire first act, detracted from development of the symbiote character and its motivations, the consequences of their bonding, etc. But with all that crap out of the way for the origin story, the sequel should have more freedom to try things that work. I'm not counting on it but...a man can dream.

  13. #10413
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    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs

    Quote Originally Posted by BattleFranky69 View Post
    The biggest problem was that it was more of an Eddie Brock movie than a Venom movie. That one thing slowed down the entire first act, detracted from development of the symbiote character and its motivations, the consequences of their bonding, etc. But with all that crap out of the way for the origin story, the sequel should have more freedom to try things that work. I'm not counting on it but...a man can dream.
    Can a man dream of a reality where we won't be getting Morbius and Kraven movies?

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  14. #10414

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    Can a man dream of a reality where we won't be getting Morbius and Kraven movies?
    Could be worse they could still do that Aunt May spin-off they scrapped or a Green Goblin spin-off that adapts Sins Past
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  15. #10415

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs

    Quote Originally Posted by BattleFranky69 View Post
    It really did hit painfully home that at no point did anyone at Sony get help from Marvel to make this thing. You'd think Disney would have a stake in making one of its associated properties NOT suck and harm the franchise as a whole, especially a villain of their biggest-merchandising hero.
    The question is, did Disney Marvel not want to help, or did Sony not want them to? I imagine it's the second thing.

    Because we don't know the details on Spiderman but I imagine the talent split and inclusion of universe characters means more of the profit goes to Marvel.

    But if Sony does it all by themselves like a big boy, they get the whole profit, minus licensing fees.

    This is also why they have to go through the insanity of not including Spiderman in the Venom movie. The Disney deal might just be they have like 80-100% control of Spidey now, plus whatever villains they claim dibs on, but Sony gets to keep some of the money, their name on it, and the B list characters. It's the only explanation that makes any sense. (And might also be why so many of the schoolmates changes so radically from their typical versions... that and being the third iteration.)

    Would also explain why they're pitching Black Cat/Silver Sable before something that might actually work like a Doc Ock or Kraven movie.
    Last edited by Robby; October 10th, 2018 at 10:00 PM.

  16. #10416

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs


    Spoiler:

  17. #10417

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs

    That first one looks SWEET, even as distance footage. Second one, uhm, serves a point I guess.

    Spoiler:
    Wonder if the black is for mourning whoever doesn't make it through Avengers 4? But if he's still getting new costumes, who is making them? Tony? Left behind AI? We know Tony has suit creation automated after he puts in a design so...

    But yeah, the red and black looks fantastic.

  18. #10418

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs

    Spoiler:
    STealth suit is borderline Spider-man Noir.


  19. #10419

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyan D. Funk View Post
    Spoiler:
    STealth suit is borderline Spider-man Noir.
    Pretty damn blatant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    Can a man dream of a reality where we won't be getting Morbius and Kraven movies?
    No. Sony went in and purged all realities where that would have been avoided.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    The question is, did Disney Marvel not want to help, or did Sony not want them to? I imagine it's the second thing.
    Doesn't matter, either way is a lose-lose situation for us.

    Because we don't know the details on Spiderman but I imagine the talent split and inclusion of universe characters means more of the profit goes to Marvel.
    Well, Disney seems to have tried to torpedo the property Fantastic Four to hurt Fox's ability to profit from the film rights, but now that that's over with, there's no need for that type of thing. But with those guys not attached to Spider-Man, there's no net benefit for anyone. The merchandise won't move for Disney, and the films won't make decent profit for Sony.

    But if Sony does it all by themselves like a big boy, they get the whole profit, minus licensing fees.
    If by profit you mean diminishing returns. It's the whole reason they made that deal with Marvel in the first place.

    This is also why they have to go through the insanity of not including Spiderman in the Venom movie. The Disney deal might just be they have like 80-100% control of Spidey now, plus whatever villains they claim dibs on, but Sony gets to keep some of the money, their name on it, and the B list characters. It's the only explanation that makes any sense. (And might also be why so many of the schoolmates changes so radically from their typical versions... that and being the third iteration.)
    They could theoretically work without Spider-Man (imagine a Norman Osborn-led Thunderbolts sort of thing, like the MCU version of a Suicide Squad), they just need ass-kicking writers. And while it would be exponentially more beneficial to make them work within the existing MCU, the cost for both Sony and Marvel to make that happen (Marvel has to pay Sony for the 'privilege' of using those characters, or Sony has to share the profits with Marvel) makes both sides want to avoid the tangential properties, only the web-slinger gets that honor. The one they're guaranteed to make big money on. So we're stuck with sub-par side-stories of character we don't care about because Sony wants to try to milk that gilded teat for all they can get out of it, which unfortunately peels off that molecularly thin veneer for all of it. Superhero film fatigue is only going to increase by their efforts. So them refusing help, or Marvel refusing to help, becomes everyone's problem in the end. Lose-lose for both of them, and the audiences.

    Would also explain why they're pitching Black Cat/Silver Sable before something that might actually work like a Doc Ock or Kraven movie.
    I had also heard talk of an Aunt May movie.

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