Naruto and Bleach: Let's put this thread to bed I

[project1980]

That pic with Aizen cracks me up everytime Daz can't help it.

[Cyclone_Baroness]

So, how's this Toriko manga that unseated Bleach from the top 3?
And yeah, Naruto's storytelling sucks, but it at least has me interested in how it ends.
As for Bleach, well, it's not the first story I've read where there's no clear goal or overarching plot.
It just unfortunately took my young dumb self a while to figure out that it was because Kubo didn't know what he was doing, not because he was writing for fun or whatever.

Toriko is awesome! Worthy of knocking Bleach from it's perch. It's so manly! It's funny though, when I first saw it I thought it was a much older manga. Kinda has that Fist of the North Star look to it. It's over the top in a One Piece sort of way too. The Toriko/One Piece cross over was actually pretty funny.

Bleach had a point...I think. Oh hey...Whatever happened to the whole, uhh obtaining god or whatever ultimately rules over soul society? Did Aizen ever get around to that? I know he seemed to be having fun as a butterfly. But I thought he mentioned getting all that power to show god what's what.

[The Daz]

You got it all wrong, poor Aizen was just misunderstood and lonely because of his huuuuge unexplained powerlevel. In all likelyhood he didn't want to eat God, just send him a friend request


@project1980, thanks, but you should tell that to Sonic youth, she drew it

[AtomicFruit]

Daz's blog is a good read.


On-Topic :
I liked Naruto till Kishimoto deciced to kill off Sasori , using his grandma and Sakura to pull it off...Let's analize Sasori and his hax abilities, when we first learned about Sasori being a puppet user I was kinda thrown off ( meh uses puppets to fight, must be some wuss), but then we learn that he turned alive people into puppets and that to me it's like some fucked up torture (thumbs up ninjas!), now during the fight vs grandma and Sakura, Sasori pulls off the puppet of the 3rd Kazekage and it could use the bloodline limits of the person just like he was still alive, ok after some blows and shit Grandma and Sakura destroy the puppet and then Sasori pulled like hundreds of fodder puppets. WHY?! It would make alot more sense to me, if Sasori during the 20 years he left the village, he had gone and killed several kage level ninjas and use them all with that Hundred Puppets performance jutsu or wtf it was called, this guy had the potential to be 1 of the biggest villains in the series due to his hax abilities, but Kishimoto prefers to use the same old shit like Edo Tensei to bring people back instead of allowing a guy that would basically torture some1, turning them to puppets while they were still somewhat alive. The only interest I have in Naruto, is if Sakura/Sasuke will die.



/End of Rant

[phoenix_fire]

Ultimately, it would be a kindness if both were to be put down.

Well, at least Naruto's going to end soon. When that happens, Bleach will just be left to fester in its own juices until it's either cancelled or Kubo gets bored with it and moves on.

Its kind of funny, how often statements like these are made, together with "Thats so bad, that I wont follow it anymore" or "I just want to see, how the trainwreck ends, but am not emotionally attached to it in any way" and so on. But on the other hand, the Bleach and Naruto sub-forums are always the most active with the most comments. Even this merged thread, who isnt two days old, has already over 400 comments.

[Samwize78]

Are Naruto and Bleach still awful?

[RPGJay]

So, how's this Toriko manga that unseated Bleach from the top 3?

Toriko is easily one of the best shounen series to come out in recent years. Not saying it's perfect (it does have a few problems I could mention) but it's still incredibly good and it's my personal second favorite manga that consistently runs in Weekly Jump.

Go read it now Cuddles, I know you'll love it.

[Samwize78]

So, how's this Toriko manga that unseated Bleach from the top 3?

Imagine a manga in the top 3, but actually really good. It's actually nice to have 3 legit mangas in the the top 3 now.

[Outerspec]

Spoiler:

Anyway, let's talk about why this chapter of Naruto was so freaking awful.

-"That genjutsu is an order to protect the village of Konoha." -Okay, so overriding Kabuto's control I get, but shouldn't this new command be making him immediately protect Konoha in whatever way he can? It looks like it's just given him free will. Shouldn't he be going off to fight all of Kabuto/Madara's forces instead of just standing around and expositing everything?

Couldn't exposing everything be seen as a way of protecting Konoha?

-Okay, seriously, what is up with this Shisui dude. He's only been mentioned once or twice, but apparently he was the best genjutsu user in the whole Uchiha clan? How does this fit in with anything?

Well, Shisui's eye was used for multiple things and is suspect for many things too. For one thing it's extremely suspect in being the Sharingan that was used to control the 4th Mizukage.

Spoiler:

The 4th Mizukage had complete control over his Bijuu so regular genjutsu or any regular sharingan could not have worked on him. The only mind controlling genjutsu that could have worked is Shisui's Kotomatsukami. Now, we know that Madara didn't have one of Shusui's eyeballs though. 1 was taken by Danzo and the other was given to Itachi. Was it Itachi who used the power to give the Mizukage's will completely to Madara? Highly unlikely. That leaves Danzo who could use the thing multiple times (thanks to Hashirama's chakra) and who has dealt with Madara before on a seemingly cooperatve basis.

Spoiler:

As for the other time Shisui's eye came in to use there's of course with Danzo.

1.) At the Hokage meeting it was used to appoint him as Hokage.

2.) At the Kage Summit it was used, unsuccessfully thanks to Ao, to appoint him the head of the 5 Shinobi Alliance.

Kishi has been planning the use of Shisui's eye to make some important role in the story for a long time now. Shusi's death was always suspect and when Sasuke asked wheter or not Itachi killed him, Itachi never answered. I can post the scan for that but I'd rather just post the link.

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v25/c225/8.html

Seems Kishi planned this out from Part 1.

Why does he have a special jutsu that no other Uchiha has?

It's his Mangekyou Sharingan ability.

Spoiler:

It's not just any Sharingan ability and only a very very few Uchiha have ever achieved MS.

-"I rigged that crow so it would react to my Mangekyo Sharingan." -All right, I know this has been brought up before, but how does zombie Itachi still have a sharingan? Does this mean there are effectively two sets of Itachi's eyes running around?

Edo Tensei brings the target back to the state he/she was even before they died (without all the fatigue and near deathness). Itachi still had the Sharingan and Mangekyou Sharinagan before he died so when he was brought back so were his eyes just like the rest of his body parts. Essentially yes, there are 2 pairs of Itachi's eyes running around but if you gouged Zombie Itachi's eyes out right now they would just turn to dust and reform in Zombie Itachi's skull.

-"I embedded the command "protect Konoha" as a genjutus into Shisui's eye." -Umm...how? And furthermore how did he "rig the crow." Oh right, it's ninja magic, so they can do anything that's convenient for the plot.

He took Shisui's eyeball and put it into a crow made of genjutsu then shoved the crow into a living human being. Then he set the genjutsu up to...basically use genjutsu when activated. Yes, a crow made of genjutsu using the most powerful genjutsu known to the Uchiha. Indeed, that is ninja magic.

-"If the brother I left behind became a threat to the village, as the keeper of Shisui's eye, it would mean I betrayed his trust." -...........WHAT?!!!! How does that follow anything you were talking about? What does that have to do with self-sacrifice or you safeguarding Shisui's eye?

I have no idea either.

-"I believed Sasuke would transplant my eyes." -Already mentioned before, but why would you believe that? Weren't you trying to keep Sasuke away from the path of vengeance and power-hungriness?

I don't think Sasuke transplanting Itachi's eyes was seen as so bad. Itachi planned to die all along by Sasuke's hand anyway and so what if Sasuke transplanted Itachi's eyes and grew a lot more powerful? As long as Sasuke could be seen as a hero and returned to Konoha he'd be a great asset to the village. Also, Itachi actually drove Sasuke into the power-hungry and revenge state of mind on purpose. He genuinely wanted Sasuke like that in order to become "stronger". It's no surprise that Itachi foresaw Sasuke taking his eyes eventually.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

I refer you to a previous post of mine http://www.apforums.net/showthread.p...583&viewfull=1 (what's under the dotted line).

Anyway, Itachi believed or at least suspected that Sasuke could be consumed by revenge and end up on the wrong side though. Back when he was talking to Naruto before shoving the genjutsu crow down his throat he mentioned how easily Sasuke could be turned to the wrong side.

Spoiler:

Itachi didn't know for sure which side Sasuke would fall on after his death. He planned carefully for Sasuke to be seen as a hero after killing his older brother, but Itachi didn't plan on Madara telling Sasuke everything and he underestimated his brother's thirst for revenge. This is where the failsafe in Naruto comes in use as a "just in case" scenario. In case after the transplantation Sasuke turned on Konoha. Naruto would be the obvious one to confront Sasuke if this happened and the crow in Naruto's throat would be activated once it sensed EMS being used on Naruto, and it'd hypnotize Sasuke into permanently being on Konoha's side.

Note: I know it says the crow would be activated automatically upon transplantation of the eyes but that's a mistranslation. The crow wasn't ever supposed to activate unless Sasuke turned on Konoha with Itachi's transplanted eyes. Naruto would be standing in the way and thus the crow would be activated.

-"Shisui's Mangekyo requires at least another decade to activate, discounting Senju Hashirama's chakra, unlikely as that is." .......Hoo boy this is a doozy. Okay, aside from the arbitrariness of the 10 year limit, which is a completely transparent plot convience, how the hell did anyone ascertain that Hashirama's chakra reduced the limit on Shisui's Mangekyo? I mean, I know people have been making a big deal about his chakra recently, but what does his chakra have to do with the Sharingan? And if I understand correctly, this is a very specific technique that only person is able to use. So how did anyone come to the conclusion of, "Hey, let's take the chakra of this powerful shinobi dude and apply it to a technique that only this one Uchiha dude is able to use, despite the fact that Hashirama's chakra has shown to have no effect on any other Sharingan technique............well waddya know?! It worked!" Seriously, I must be missing something here, because this makes no goddamn sense.

Lol....I never thought of it like that. You're right, it does seem pretty unexplainable. I won't even try and will leave that up to Kishi to make up.

-Oh, and not to mention that Itachi's entire plan is mind control. As in free-will-destroying mind control. This is what he wants to do to his little brother whom he supposedly loved (well, I guess it fits in with massacring his clan right in front of him)? And we're supposed to see this as a noble act?

It was only a last resort thing he did to protect the village from his brother in case he went evil. The village was really important to Itachi, so important that-

Spoiler:

Oh...right...I guess he weighed the lives of the villagers over Sasuke's free will but weighed Sasuke's life over the lives of the entire village? That's a very fine line you got there Itachi.

Oh, right, we hate Sasuke.

Itachi doesn't hate Sasuke. He only hates Sasuke's free will and humanity.

Long post is long.

[Maromi]

In the next chapter of Naruto both Naruto and Sasuke discover that Ichigo died so they attempt to bring him back but in the process Naruto loses his left leg and Sasuke his entire body. Now they seek to bring back what was lost by joining the magic Guild 'Fairy Tail'. In here they meet the Shinigami Ryuk who tells them they have to defeat the Fire Lord before Sozin's Comet arrives and Fire Lord Bugs Bunny takes control of the Earth Kingdom. They go to defeat him but but before the final blow is struck, Bugs opens a portal in time and flings them into the future, where his evil is law. Now the fools seek to return to the past and undo the future that is Aku.

[Samwize78]

In the next chapter of Naruto both Naruto and Sasuke discover that Ichigo died so they attempt to bring him back but in the process Naruto loses his left leg and Sasuke his entire body. Now they seek to bring back what was lost by joining the magic Guild 'Fairy Tail'. In here they meet the Shinigami Ryuk who tells them they have to defeat the Fire Lord before Sozin's Comet arrives and Fire Lord Bugs Bunny takes control of the Earth Kingdom. They go to defeat him but but before the final blow is struck, Bugs opens a portal in time and flings them into the future, where his evil is law. Now the fools seek to return to the past and undo the future that is Aku.

Sounds about right.

[Silence]

In the next chapter of Naruto both Naruto and Sasuke discover that Ichigo died so they attempt to bring him back but in the process Naruto loses his left leg and Sasuke his entire body. Now they seek to bring back what was lost by joining the magic Guild 'Fairy Tail'. In here they meet the Shinigami Ryuk who tells them they have to defeat the Fire Lord before Sozin's Comet arrives and Fire Lord Bugs Bunny takes control of the Earth Kingdom. They go to defeat him but but before the final blow is struck, Bugs opens a portal in time and flings them into the future, where his evil is law. Now the fools seek to return to the past and undo the future that is Aku.

I... would watch the shit out of this.

[IceBorg]

Yeah someone needs to make something like that.

[Kareem Said]

In the next chapter of Naruto both Naruto and Sasuke discover that Ichigo died so they attempt to bring him back but in the process Naruto loses his left leg and Sasuke his entire body. Now they seek to bring back what was lost by joining the magic Guild 'Fairy Tail'. In here they meet the Shinigami Ryuk who tells them they have to defeat the Fire Lord before Sozin's Comet arrives and Fire Lord Bugs Bunny takes control of the Earth Kingdom. They go to defeat him but but before the final blow is struck, Bugs opens a portal in time and flings them into the future, where his evil is law. Now the fools seek to return to the past and undo the future that is Aku.

Take one tablespoon of Naruto, a cup of Bleach, a pound of Death Note, a pinch of Fairy Tail, a teaspoon of Avatar, and a quart of Samurai Jack and you have; a mess of a show. An awesome mess.

[Outerspec]

Take one tablespoon of Naruto, a cup of Bleach, a pound of Death Note, a pinch of Fairy Tail, a teaspoon of Avatar, and a quart of Samurai Jack and you have; a mess of a show. An awesome mess.

Don't forget the sprinkling of FMA.

[AtARU]

In the next chapter of Naruto both Naruto and Sasuke discover that Ichigo died so they attempt to bring him back but in the process Naruto loses his left leg and Sasuke his entire body. Now they seek to bring back what was lost by joining the magic Guild 'Fairy Tail'. In here they meet the Shinigami Ryuk who tells them they have to defeat the Fire Lord before Sozin's Comet arrives and Fire Lord Bugs Bunny takes control of the Earth Kingdom. They go to defeat him but but before the final blow is struck, Bugs opens a portal in time and flings them into the future, where his evil is law. Now the fools seek to return to the past and undo the future that is Aku.

9/10, you forgot the clams

[Icefae]

Fire Lord Bugs Bunny

Oh my god fund it.

[Rocco_Modern]

Spoiler:

Couldn't exposing everything be seen as a way of protecting Konoha?



Well, Shisui's eye was used for multiple things and is suspect for many things too. For one thing it's extremely suspect in being the Sharingan that was used to control the 4th Mizukage.

Spoiler:

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/5359/12539384.jpg

The 4th Mizukage had complete control over his Bijuu so regular genjutsu or any regular sharingan could not have worked on him. The only mind controlling genjutsu that could have worked is Shisui's Kotomatsukami. Now, we know that Madara didn't have one of Shusui's eyeballs though. 1 was taken by Danzo and the other was given to Itachi. Was it Itachi who used the power to give the Mizukage's will completely to Madara? Highly unlikely. That leaves Danzo who could use the thing multiple times (thanks to Hashirama's chakra) and who has dealt with Madara before on a seemingly cooperatve basis.

Spoiler:

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/9008/72442743.jpg

As for the other time Shisui's eye came in to use there's of course with Danzo.

1.) At the Hokage meeting it was used to appoint him as Hokage.

2.) At the Kage Summit it was used, unsuccessfully thanks to Ao, to appoint him the head of the 5 Shinobi Alliance.

Kishi has been planning the use of Shisui's eye to make some important role in the story for a long time now. Shusi's death was always suspect and when Sasuke asked wheter or not Itachi killed him, Itachi never answered. I can post the scan for that but I'd rather just post the link.

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v25/c225/8.html

Seems Kishi planned this out from Part 1.



It's his Mangekyou Sharingan ability.

Spoiler:

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/889/54010207.png

It's not just any Sharingan ability and only a very very few Uchiha have ever achieved MS.



Edo Tensei brings the target back to the state he/she was even before they died (without all the fatigue and near deathness). Itachi still had the Sharingan and Mangekyou Sharinagan before he died so when he was brought back so were his eyes just like the rest of his body parts. Essentially yes, there are 2 pairs of Itachi's eyes running around but if you gouged Zombie Itachi's eyes out right now they would just turn to dust and reform in Zombie Itachi's skull.



He took Shisui's eyeball and put it into a crow made of genjutsu then shoved the crow into a living human being. Then he set the genjutsu up to...basically use genjutsu when activated. Yes, a crow made of genjutsu using the most powerful genjutsu known to the Uchiha. Indeed, that is ninja magic.



I have no idea either.



I don't think Sasuke transplanting Itachi's eyes was seen as so bad. Itachi planned to die all along by Sasuke's hand anyway and so what if Sasuke transplanted Itachi's eyes and grew a lot more powerful? As long as Sasuke could be seen as a hero and returned to Konoha he'd be a great asset to the village. Also, Itachi actually drove Sasuke into the power-hungry and revenge state of mind on purpose. He genuinely wanted Sasuke like that in order to become "stronger". It's no surprise that Itachi foresaw Sasuke taking his eyes eventually.

Spoiler:

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/8373/13596098.jpg

Spoiler:

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/5294/95868063.jpg

I refer you to a previous post of mine http://www.apforums.net/showthread.p...583&viewfull=1 (what's under the dotted line).

Anyway, Itachi believed or at least suspected that Sasuke could be consumed by revenge and end up on the wrong side though. Back when he was talking to Naruto before shoving the genjutsu crow down his throat he mentioned how easily Sasuke could be turned to the wrong side.

Spoiler:

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/5594/83379136.jpg

Itachi didn't know for sure which side Sasuke would fall on after his death. He planned carefully for Sasuke to be seen as a hero after killing his older brother, but Itachi didn't plan on Madara telling Sasuke everything and he underestimated his brother's thirst for revenge. This is where the failsafe in Naruto comes in use as a "just in case" scenario. In case after the transplantation Sasuke turned on Konoha. Naruto would be the obvious one to confront Sasuke if this happened and the crow in Naruto's throat would be activated once it sensed EMS being used on Naruto, and it'd hypnotize Sasuke into permanently being on Konoha's side.

Note: I know it says the crow would be activated automatically upon transplantation of the eyes but that's a mistranslation. The crow wasn't ever supposed to activate unless Sasuke turned on Konoha with Itachi's transplanted eyes. Naruto would be standing in the way and thus the crow would be activated.



Lol....I never thought of it like that. You're right, it does seem pretty unexplainable. I won't even try and will leave that up to Kishi to make up.



It was only a last resort thing he did to protect the village from his brother in case he went evil. The village was really important to Itachi, so important that-

Spoiler:

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/3532/98161417.jpg

Oh...right...I guess he weighed the lives of the villagers over Sasuke's free will but weighed Sasuke's life over the lives of the entire village? That's a very fine line you got there Itachi.



Itachi doesn't hate Sasuke. He only hates Sasuke's free will and humanity.

Long post is long.

Silly question: Are the paragraphs with the (-) next to them from you Outerspec? If so, your analysis and evidence was solid! I can't gauge the level of interest you have toward Naruto, (like if you like it but are disappointed; if you like it and still like it as much as you did from the get go; or if you dislike it but you pleasantly take the time to read it like you love it, which doesn't make sense but is possible) which is what makes your post that much more interesting to me. Naruto is my least favorite of the unofficial Big Three, personally, but I have mad respect for that level of thought and devotion, and you actually showed me a level of Naruto that I did not see before, and might not have been willing to admit was there, because of how I read the series.

[Hiroy]

In the next chapter of Naruto both Naruto and Sasuke discover that Ichigo died so they attempt to bring him back but in the process Naruto loses his left leg and Sasuke his entire body. Now they seek to bring back what was lost by joining the magic Guild 'Fairy Tail'. In here they meet the Shinigami Ryuk who tells them they have to defeat the Fire Lord before Sozin's Comet arrives and Fire Lord Bugs Bunny takes control of the Earth Kingdom. They go to defeat him but but before the final blow is struck, Bugs opens a portal in time and flings them into the future, where his evil is law. Now the fools seek to return to the past and undo the future that is Aku.

Hall of Fame post right here.

Wait...

We don't have a Hall of Fame?

We gotta make one.

[project1980]

In the next chapter of Naruto both Naruto and Sasuke discover that Ichigo died so they attempt to bring him back but in the process Naruto loses his left leg and Sasuke his entire body. Now they seek to bring back what was lost by joining the magic Guild 'Fairy Tail'. In here they meet the Shinigami Ryuk who tells them they have to defeat the Fire Lord before Sozin's Comet arrives and Fire Lord Bugs Bunny takes control of the Earth Kingdom. They go to defeat him but but before the final blow is struck, Bugs opens a portal in time and flings them into the future, where his evil is law. Now the fools seek to return to the past and undo the future that is Aku.

Just.Dope.