Staff and forum feedback.

[Don Quichotte De Flamingo]

I don't give a crap about their social life. I don't see how you didn't get this the first time I responded to you. What I wanted to know is simply how they've contributed and whether or not I can approach them.

I thought you would be talking about the people behind all that and not about their doing in here. I don`t see why you need an updated thread who exactly now fixed this or that problem(because their rang in here actually tells you who handles what)because the whole stuff is working on the problems..sure some more and some less, but i don`t think it`s rly that important who did what now.

But I wouldn't want to bother him to help me with something when I know the dude is busy. So who else can I approach? That kind of shit.

When somebody is busy he will tell you and you have a lot of other people to chose from..it`s not that hard and they won`t hate you because you asked. Also by accepting to be a mod they kind of knew that they will get a lot of requests and so you aren`t rly bothering them.(as long as you don`t PMing them all the time for useless stuff)

And even though it has nothing to do with my actual point, "a manga forum isn't a good place to get to know someone for real". Seriously? You're going to play that card? You're going to shit all over anyone who's ever made an online friend before?

Ehhm no i don`t. I just think that many get to know each other here and start to talk more on more private places(then for real, while on the forum they may share interests). The forum itself is in my eyes less used for such "real talk" i mentioned.(PMing may be excluded) (or i would be at least astonished when some people talk here all the time about private stuff in open threads instead of doing that between each other somewhere else)

[Vanessa]

Two big problems I see here:

1: The basis you're working off of are assumptions that are dead wrong, and that it somehow leads into wanting explanations for decisions that we have to make.

2: These are superficial reasons at best, and are very disproportionate to the types of things you'd want.

- For the first point, one of you mention that apparently we make decisions on our whims when common sense should tell you that isn't the case. We don't have to give an explanation when someone screws up and is dealt with since just because you weren't logged on or whatever when that member got themselves in trouble doesn't mean it magically didn't happen and they were "unfairly" taken care of. Whether a staff member does or not is personally up to them, as you've all seen with robby or buster call who pretty much always explain why they took action or with me in which I rarely if ever bother to unless explicitly asked.

You guys want a chance to say if you think there's a problem. Thing is we already have that, as others have said you guys have a bunch of different ways to voice a problem or want an idea to be looked at. For the former you all can report, send PMs and everything else Urouge mentioned. You guys may say it's a two way street, but it really isn't since if you guys think there is a problem, if it's something you all think we haven't drawn attention to then just post it. This dumb crap about being intimidated or shy or whatever is ridiculous; if you won't even do something as simple as type up some wrods and hit the reply button due to petty things like the aforementioned then for all we know there isn't any kind of concern. And the latter, you're pretty much being redundant at this point when you've made a topic in the suggestion subforum on if we should have a thread for suggestions. Stop being all roundabout and say what you think the problem is without hollow praises placed at the end. Voice your viewpoint and step up; being all passive aggressive and coy about whatever your opinion is won't lead to anything.

"Yeah there was a problem that *insert name here* won't say nor will I go into detail about it myself"

This is the kind of things you all have been saying, this isn't he said she said bullshit so unless you all are willing to mention everything and name names, even if it's over PMs so OMG MAH FRIENDZ WONT KNOW IT WAS ME, then headway won't be made. Otherwise you're wasting your time and ours.

- Second of all, whether members who make up the staff are "social" or not is irrelevant and one of the dumbest things to have any kind of concern over. It has no bearing over when dealing with choices we have to make when problems arise. Fact of the matter is: some of us want to be private and don't want to talk about ourselves. Me personally, I'm private as hell: barely post, and even less about any kind of personal stuff unrelated to One Piece. If that's honestly something you see as a factor that gets in the way of doing things then you're wrong. Which goes back to the first point anyway since you guys claim to want "understanding" yet there has always been multiple methods of voicing your opinions which we mention any time someone has had a problem with reaching us.

Hell, the one who made this thread was wanting to split up posters in the manga section on some kind of ridiculous "elite section" in a former suggestion made in this section where if they don't "prove themselves" shouldn't be allowed to post, this is a public forum for God's sake. This one among others lead me to the viewpoint of not giving you guys a say on our decision making.

If you members have a problem with something, fine, bring it up and us staff will look into things and discuss it between ourselves. That's not anything new considering we do all that anyway, but letting you guys factor into everything decision we make? No.

[RobbyBevard]

how many people have the nerves to actually make a thread? Know what I mean?

No one is stopping anyone from communicating with anyone else?

You have to interact to be interacted with. If you want to get to know someone better... then take the initiative and talk to them! Share your interests, make a thread about something your interested in, report someone if they're bothering you. We aren't mind readers. If people don't speak up and express an opinion, whatever the topic, (and especially with problems with other posters) then like Urouge said, it's hypocritical to complain about us not responding when they aren't posting themselves.

You guys are arguing for theoretical shy people who can't speak for themselves? Or the lurkers who never post? Or are you arguing opinions that you personally have while hiding behind the facade of "other people" ? I... really don't understand what the complaint is.

[freedom]

This makes me wonder. For the people that want to get to know the staff, do you also try to get to know the people who work at your electric company? Or the people at the Cable company. Or do you just call the service number when something is wrong, and you want this service fixed as quickly as possible so you can resume using said service.

I'm not saying that the staff don't want to get to know other members of the forums. I'm just saying, there's no reason to make a point of it. If a member and a person on staff happen to post in the same thread, or have a conversation on IRC, then this is just a natural part of crossing paths with someone. Liked you'd do if you met someone in a coffee shop, library, or event.

[Uncle Kenny]

No one is stopping anyone from communicating with anyone else?

You have to interact to be interacted with. If you want to get to know someone better... then take the initiative and talk to them! Share your interests, make a thread about something your interested in, report someone if they're bothering you. If people don't speak up and express an opinion, whatever the topic, then like Urouge said, it's hypocritical to complain about us not responding when they aren't posting themselves.

I... really don't understand what the complaint is. You guys are arguing for theoretical shy people who can't speak for themselves? Or the lurkers who never post?

I have my own opinions on the subject different from Smudge's opinions. But namely yeah, the ignorance. At its most core level, it's just about how approachable each staff member is. And it's not necessarily true of shy people or lurkers, it could just as well be in my case. Like if I get chewed out right now (which the chances of that are pretty high), I'm kinda stuck in a fucked up spot. There just seems to be a general disconnect between the two groups.

Like I'm just curious how much the two groups even truly understand about one another. I wasn't suggesting you know, posting every decision or having us involved in everything but just having a thread around where we can throw in our opinion. That's it. It isn't even a group decision, it's just input. With that, you naturally learn more about what the community on a whole thinks and we naturally learn more about the staff (in whoever decides to comment).

But honestly, I think this thread has gotten too aggressive in its back-and-forth. Truth be told, on either side, it's not that big an issue. At this point, I'm fine with dropping it. It was just something I've noticed that I wanted to pass on. Didn't mean to point fingers or anything if it seemed that way.

@freedom: Well then there, I was simply ignorant about how the staff views their positions. I thought the stance was different and I'm obviously wrong.

[RobbyBevard]

Like I'm just curious how much the two groups even truly understand about one another.

Uhm... I was a regular member for three years before I became a mod? And I still post the same amount as I did before? I talk to anyone that talks to me?

You're imagining divisions and barriers that aren't there.

Staff job is mostly janitorial duty for cleaning up spam and trolls, its something we do to help keep this forum, which we enjoy, running smoothly. I accepted the job mostly so I could retitle the Naruto threads at whim. It's... not whatever you guys seem to think it is.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to have caviar with the Queen of England.

[Uncle Kenny]

Uhm... I was a regular member for three years before I became a mod? And I still post the same amount as I did before? I talk to anyone that talks to me?

You're imagining divisions and barriers that aren't there.

Which is the issue. A lot of regular members fall into this mentality. That's literally, the only point that I even have. But I think freedom said it best, I honestly had no clue how the staff viewed their positions. So then now I won't make the same mistake twice. =P

[Silence]

A few things, though others have mostly all said what needs saying.

It isn't really necessary for the mods to have more transparency, imo. A lot of them say what they're on about if you only ask. Things are happening all the time, visibly and otherwise, and as has been said, just because you're not online at the time doesn't mean they aren't happening. Truth of the matter is, if the matter of, say, banning people was up to debate, or even discussion, the forum would be flooded with folks going "this mod doesn't like, this mod did that, fuck the mods, dickriding the mods" and all that everywhere... and REALLY, this isn't an environment worth that. We could have much, much worse than what we've got. It's been said that the mods here are running everything swimmingly, right? You posted a suggestion in the suggestion forums and here it is, effectively being considered.

Isn't that proof the lines of communications are clearly open? I mean, like, the mods post ALL over. If you want to know about someone, chat them up!

Do people really think of the mods as these officious schoolmarms that slap your hand with a ruler if you so much as make eye contact? How can they, when they're over posting about what they didn't like about the latest Final Fantasy, or the most recent episode of Adventure Time, Thundercats, etc, just like the rest of us? They're all over the place! Stalk 'em a little. They're no different than a regular member in that regard.

Maybe I'm just not understanding the issue.

If something more specific than "the mods don't talk enough about themselves" or "new members who haven't spoken to a mod haven't spoken to a mod" or "i want more say" that can be parsed from all this it'd be nice to hear it.

What is really being asked for, here?

[I survived the buster call]

Oddly enough, perhaps, to you, Kenny and Smudge, I think its more important that the staff know the people of the general forums, than the other way around. After all, they are making decisions about those folks. As long as they post, or read, at the least, and keep a healthy attitude towards the hijinks of members, then that can be enough to do the job (though I wish those from the main staff that don't would post more since they are often among the best theorizers on the forums, but that is a whole different issue, and still I recognize that its not anything that they owe anyone else...)

The fact that there is a group of mods who actively discuss the larger things means almost by definition that there is probably always a sort of built in checks and balances system, since statistically speaking, any given group of people is going to disagree on certain points at certain times, which requires discussion. If the members of said group happen to get along well, as our staff do, then all the better for the healthy discussion necessary and the resultant healthy functioning of the forums--friends are more free to disagree and work it out than those who are uncomfortable with each other, not the other way around, as many seem to think when they post about worries that staff don't want to contradict each other for fear of... something, I'm not quite sure what these people think they will fear, actually. They aren't young children--all of the staff are responsible adults--fully able to think for themselves and express opinions within the group.

Any additional feedback that forum members feel needs to be expressed has many avenues to make its way to staff members in existence already. I agree with those who've said that staff don't owe anyone here personal information any more than anyone else on the forums. Its a discussion forum for One Piece, primarily. It can be more to many people, and frequently is, but there is no necessity for anyone to be more involved than they chose to--certainly not at a personal level--even, or especially, the staff.

[Uncle Kenny]

I wish it didn't keep getting back to the personal point because I don't even care about that. In my last post, the point is flatly bolded out. It's just this sense of barriers that isn't even there. Like the way I imagine it, staff members are authoritative figures like a teacher or mother or whatever because this is a community and not a business. So regular members do develop that inferior mentality and put staff members on a pedestal, even if you don't yourselves.

This gets amplified in the cases of more serious discussions, especially when those discussions are about their jobs or the site on a whole. If your teacher or mother chews you out, you're not going to want to talk to them again until the next time that you have to. And naturally, you don't know everything about your teacher or mother's personal life and you don't need to know that in order to know that they're the authoritative figures. But they are still people and it's necessary for us to know whether or not we can approach them.

Stupid comparison? Well shit, that's how most members see it. I won't even lie, I'm scared as piss of Vanessa. I feel like I'm on the verge of a ban right now or in my example, a beating or something.

---

You get rid of the child-parent mentality and everything is a-okay. Like how I'm friends with buster call and Gekko or talk to jonas regularly. It's just a stupid complaint and I acknowledge it. But I can't help but feel there's simple ways to get around it that don't involve having to talk to every single staff member.

[Badass SnoCone]

Perhaps the staff members that haven't posted haven't done so because they haven't visited the site recently?

I feel like I'm on the verge of a ban right now

Over a simple misunderstanding/argument like this? I don't think you'd be banned for that.


I think people may be seeing this for something bigger than it is.

[I survived the buster call]

I admire your honesty, Kenny. I truly do. So much so that I will personally prepare you last meal, dear, and hold your hand as they lead you up the scaffold.

But its an interesting point, though I'm not sure its possible to change that mentality. Authority figures are... authority figures. No changing that. As so many have frequently said here--there can be no democracy. It just isn't feasible on a forum this large. Since that is the case, the sad fact is that staff give up their ability to be treated like normal posters (and this takes many odd forms, lol), and members naturally feel a little uncomfortable around staff, since they know if they screw up, said staff will be the ones to do something about it. In all honesty, as others have already posted, the job is usually centered around deleting off topic posts, moving threads, closing threads, etc--boring janitorial stuff. Members just don't get banned left right and center on a daily basis.

[RobbyBevard]

You get rid of the child-parent mentality and everything is a-okay. Like how I'm friends with buster call and Gekko or talk to jonas regularly. It's just a stupid complaint and I acknowledge it. But I can't help but feel there's simple ways to get around it that don't involve having to talk to every single staff member.

So clearly the solution is to make the mod color yellow and the submods green?

Hell, Jonas has more authority than I do. This is all in your head dude. There's no difference.

[Uncle Kenny]

Perhaps the staff members that haven't posted haven't done so because they haven't visited the site recently?



Over a simple misunderstanding/argument like this? I don't think you'd be banned for that.


I think people may be seeing this for something bigger than it is.

Well then damn, son. I come from a site before this that had an extremely elitist system where you'd get the whip cracked for breathing so I guess I'm just not fit to have this discussion. Looking around, maybe my eyes were the only ones that were blurred.

Wish I noticed it sooner before I started making a bunch of posts and shit.

[Badass SnoCone]

Well then damn, son. I come from a site before this that had an extremely elitist system where you'd get the whip cracked for breathing so I guess I'm just not fit to have this discussion. Looking around, maybe my eyes were the only ones that were blurred.

That seems like a lot of oppression. Here we only have one oppression.

[Don Quichotte De Flamingo]

It may be kind of awkward to talk to mods like to a normal poster(lol, you`re all mad machines), but afterall we`re here to talk about One Piece(well, at least most of us) and so are they. Sometimes they rly have great points and thoughts, which makes it seem like you couldn`t say something against it, but even they aren`t all the time right and enjoy just like everyone else a good conversation about their favourite manga\movie\game etc. They won`t be that unforgiving when you disagree with them, just because they have the power to make you shut up. Just try it out and you will see that you can talk to them like to everyone else who shares the same interest.

[I survived the buster call]

It may be kind of awkward to talk to mods like to a normal poster(lol, you`re all mad machines), but afterall we`re here to talk about One Piece(well, at least most of us) and so are they. Sometimes they rly have great points and thoughts, which makes it seem like you couldn`t say something against it, but even they aren`t all the time right...

Dammit Don, telling all of our secrets like that? WTH, man!?! Tsk. You are in big trouble now...

[Crossword]

Speaking from the perspective of a rookie mod who had been a regular member for nearly four years beforehand, I'd certainly hope that just because my name is now in a different color from most, that that doesn't change how my peers and associates on this board see me. I don't feel like there should be a disconnect between the staff and regular members, and I feel that, once you go looking around (or ''stalk'', as the case may be) you'd see that we're normal people with our different interests and manners just the same as anyone else.

I do feel like I have a slightly different perspective on the board now, but I'm not standing on the 80th floor of my skyscraper office, looking down on the common folk scurrying around on the streets, whilst indulging in my caviar, sipping a martini, and talking to my fellow staff members on my gold-plated cell phone. I'm still just the teenager/young adult who joined this place because I like One Piece and a place to talk to other people, and I'd like to keep being treated that way.

[RobbyBevard]

I do feel like I have a slightly different perspective on the board now, but I'm not standing on the 80th floor of my skyscraper office, looking down on the common folk scurrying around on the streets, whilst indulging in my caviar, sipping a martini, and talking to my fellow staff members on my gold-plated cell phone.

That comes in after six months. Also, dinners with the Queen.

[Silence]

4 years as regular members, then they become a mod and suddenly they aren't people anymore. Mods, I'm sorry to say but you've been roboticized.



(I think it's a wee bit silly)