Chapter 643: "Phantom" -Discussion

[RPGJay]

I usually don't post in the One Piece section because I don't really have much to say, and when I do it's usually been said previously (and frequently better than I could word it). But Hodi is such a disappointing villain. I get what Oda was going for, but having no motivation other than "just cause I'm better lol" does not make for a good villain. There was a lot more to Arlong's character and motivations than Hodi, and considering Hodi is supposed to sort of a pseudo successor to Arlong, that's just lame. Wasted potential. Otherwise a pretty good chapter in my opinoin.

Now you all see why I'm just about everywhere except here.

[RomanceDawn]

I usually don't post in the One Piece section because I don't really have much to say, and when I do it's usually been said previously (and frequently better than I could word it). But Hodi is such a disappointing villain. I get what Oda was going for, but having no motivation other than "just cause I'm better lol" does not make for a good villain. There was a lot more to Arlong's character and motivations than Hodi, and considering Hodi is supposed to sort of a pseudo successor to Arlong, that's just lame. Wasted potential. Otherwise a pretty good chapter in my opinoin.

Now you all see why I'm just about everywhere except here.

I don't know, I have to say I feel the exact opposite. Imagine if Tiger was Hodi's father and Hodi was just avenging him like Arlong did? Tell me you wouldn't be pissed at just "another one of those guys" just getting revenge for the same reasons? If that was the case everyone would be hating on this chapter right now. This direction is actually more common in real life, and break from the norm.

[summer9]

I actually really liked this arc, and hodi....
Hodi are just like common people where they cant move on with their life, they are still in the past,,

[Demonicpoodle]

Er...no. They're meant to be taken seriously. They have reasons and backstory for what they're doing. They were raised in an environment where they always heard stories of human atrocities and fishmen like Arlong and Fisher Tiger taking it to them. They can't stand the idea of fishmen ever making peace with humans, and can only think of obliterating them. Since they can't stand that ideal, they take violent measures to ensure that hatred will always stand between them and humanity, and anyone who's not with them is against them. They're the worst kind of dangerous and racism. The kind that only works on emotions and blind hatreds they only acted on and never tried to understand.

They're meant to be taken seriously like a roach about to multiply is meant to be taken seriously. Their potential danger and corrupt ideals are meant to be taken seriously, but I do not take them seriously on the grand scale of OP as villains, should've worded it clearer. Would you take the opinion of someone like Hody seriously? No, you wouldn't most likely unless you're a misanthropist. Left unchecked, Hody and his crew could convert people over to them by the example you provided of "join or die" and multiply exponentially, potentially becoming dangerous, but right now they're a small minority that is going to be swept aside very fast due to the Straw Hats, one of which can now blink and take out 50,000 people. If the Straw Hats were never there then I would take them seriously.

If this were real life, yes, you would obviously take an army of 100,000 people with the aim of obliterating mankind seriously. But this is Oda's universe, and 100,000 untrained soldiers is something that the more powerful individuals can shrug off.

The kind of person Hody is is meant to be taken seriously and is dangerous, but he himself does not really have the means to accomplish his goals, because the overpowered Straw Hats are there. So no, in relation to the possibility of them being any threat at all to the One Piece humanity, I do not take them seriously. I understand that I'm SUPPOSED to, but they're going to be destroyed in a few chapters.

[Gizmo]

Aohige and Hiroy's posts in the spoiler thread really hit the nail on the head. It fits well, and it's going to make a reread a lot better knowing Hody's true character.

There's still issues with Hody as a villain and logic in his plans, but for him to be this truly despicable racist fanatic who hates solely because he holds generations of hatred and resentment makes me despise him so much more.

When compared to say a racist/KKK member/neo nazi that is of this generation, Hody as a character really changed for me. I had some issues with Oda seemingly oversimplifying the situation given the complexities of racism, but I like how Oda made it okay for this issue to be a black and white.

[wolfwoof]

So the big reveal is that Hody is a complete psychopath? That makes me feel so....meh

[Don Quichotte De Flamingo]

Hody... THAT'S his big secret motivation? NOTHING? God, this guy just gets lamer by the chapter. Crush him soon Luffy. And utterly. I do have to admit, its been a while since I've wanted to see a villain beaten this badly... but mostly because he sucks.

Afterall it was a simple answer to his simple character...driven by false anger based on nothing reflects how a lot of cruelity in this world is born.(because of not even self-expierenced agony)
He still is as weak as before and won`t be a threat to Luffy, but his anger evolved to the point that he legitimates himself with the law of nature and by that he has created a twisted kind of justice for himself.
That led to hate humanity and even his own race(because they`re the "weaker" ones),what is interesting and so somehow saved the character as a villan for me.

[RPGJay]

I don't know, I have to say I feel the exact opposite. Imagine if Tiger was Hodi's father and Hodi was just avenging him like Arlong did? Tell me you wouldn't be pissed at just "another one of those guys" just getting revenge for the same reasons? If that was the case everyone would be hating on this chapter right now. This direction is actually more common in real life, and break from the norm.

Again I see what Oda was trying to do. Aohige was pretty on the mark when he compared Hodi to modern racists. The thing is, Hodi is kind of a boring villain. Self destructive, single-minded, willing to kill everyone on the island, including his own team; sure, that does sound like someone created and raised from pure hate. And I know that's Oda's intent.

But how well was it executed? Hodi is not really much of a character. His only goal or motivation is to slaughter as many humans as possible despite humans never doing anything to him before. He literally has zero reason to be fighting right now.

Those are just my thoughts anyways. I could go on, but I just really want to sum up that Hodi had a lot of potential, but just ends up as a very bland villain.

Though I want to reiterate that I did like this chapter, I just dislike Hodi strongly.

[Patta]

What's wrong with you guys?

Enel didn't has any "tragic past" or special motive either.

Both simply think of themselves being superior.

Hodi=Superior Race (Fishmen) ; Enel=Superior Being (God)

And Enel was one hell of an villian!

[Katzztar]

why is Hammond so poorly drawn in this chapter? even the size is completely off o_o

liked Zeo and Daruma

The size is not what got my attention, it was the missing bandages in one panel. Before and after shows bandages on his neck, all save one panel.

Hmm I don't know if I am that happy with Hody's response , kinda feel weird really

That is a natural responce when we hear the reasoning of a true madmen. ESP. with the resoning of extreme rasists that use the hate as a reason for genocide.

Also why do people assume that oda skipped gedatsu? If anything he should still be showing up sometime after the saruyama gang.

So they skipped over what happened to most of BW and Gedatsu. Wonder if that means it's more likely we'll be seeing them at some point.

This is a yes and no answer to GreatLiver- Yes to other BW they haven't been shown but thats because they weren't as important as the 4 that have played in the story. Noticed that Oda showed Rika (girl who tried to help Zoro in Shell Town) but didn't show Coby, Helmeppo or Morgan? Morgan isn't important anymore while Coby and Helmeppo appeared in teh main storyline, at end in Water Town and more importantly at Marineford War. We saw four of BW in ID and in the War= Crocodile(Mr.0), Bones(1), Bentham (Bon Clay/Mr.2), Galdino (3), the rest are no long important, like Morgan.

Criket appeared in Jaya, before they went to Skypedia and encountered Gedatsu. So while Gedastu may be closer to Alabastra now days, he will appear later due to the squence of first apperances in the series.

LOL Epic chapter while i'm sitting here waiting for Hody to reveal something tragic ,the dude just says "Nothing" Oda sir you never cease to amaze me.

Highlight of the chapter is Ussop and how badass he's become ,can't wait to see what he really can do.

Btw am I the only one who saw Robin call Jinbe a Lady killer? O-o I guess her type is Whale Shark xDDD

Too true about Usopp, I can't wait to see teh 3 step trap. I was overjoyed when I saw that. I was hoping some of Usopp's old tatics/weapons were still used, such as setting traps and the dials. I hope he uses a power up of the Firebird star. I love that move!

Uhh.. no, that's not what he's doing.

He's pissed off that the fishmen want to live with Humans, humans who've done them dirty for centuries. Though he's never experienced it, he was raised on that hatred and doesn't want to forget what the humans have done to his people.

Hence forth, to justify his actions to himself, he completely disregards even the slightest possibility that all humans aren't evil, because that's how he was raised.

He's not thinking for himself anymore, he's fueled by other people's hatred and desire for revenge. Thus, he's empty and insane.

Edit: That Usopp page.. I exploded.

PS: How can people not understand the cycle of racism? This stuff goes on in real life you know...

And that is the problem. Some (read SOME, means NOT all, so don't yell at me ) people cannot understand racism, a few are so unexperienced with it that its a foreign concept, others dont hate so deeply so they can't understand it. Some look at their own hate as a simple thing (I hate how Marsha stole my boyfriend!) and the hate of racists as a different emotion and not different levels (shallow to deep) of negative emotion.

This is something I've talked to my sister about when her children were young. People often take the annoyances out on different groups and stereotype them. These actiuons can build up to blaming the entire race for a- your own anger, b- sins of a small group of people in that race.

One day my sister was sitting in traffic at a notorious long red light, when she saw a hispanic man with five kids on the sidewalk, she started a rant of how "stupid spics having more kids than they can afford, never trying to get jobs,ect." I stopped her rant with a "Those sterotypes will only teach your kids to hate people for the color of their shins. You do not know if that man is dad to all those kids, I walk to & from the school to get your kids with 3 kids I babysit. You don't know if he, personally have a job. So what if your neighbor is guilty of that? It's not fair to judge a man you never met. Remember that hispanics has been in Texas (our home state then) since its begining and some fought along side whites for indendance. When Texas was a republic, out first vice-president was hispanic. Do you really want to teach your kids how to hate, just for the sake of hating?" That got her to shut up and think. She started to watch what she said after that and remember she did have some hispanic friends. She realised that she was parroting racist sterotypes and if not stopped it could to really lead to racism.

That is why I disagree with people who say it's a stupid move to have Hodi say "nothing". Hodi is a prime example of people taking the sins of a small group(the tenryuubito and those who support them, marines, slave traders) and hate the enitire race. Racism is a very powerful thing and those that are in shallow end may be able to "see teh light" and stop hating or try to, this hate is the "demon" Tiger talked about, he knew that not all humans were the same evil as he experienced as a slave and thats why he ordered his men not to kill the humans they encounterd. But those in the very deep end like Hodi and his men, cannot be reasoned with.

[$abZ]

It's quite relieving that Oda has actually had Hody admit that he has no real intent except to just cause harm to humans. Before now a lot of people thought Oda couldn't think of any great background for Hody, and wasn't clear about Hody's true intentions. But for Hody to openly say he has no ulterior motive for his actions allows us to accept that Oda just wants it that way, and he isn't losing his touch.

Or Oda tried to think of something for Hody but couldn't. Could've been a "hmmm" followed by a "fuck it" moment.

[RPG KING]

Great progression in this chapter didn't drag. The random people parts was to a minimum and ussop and robin and brook's fights were beast

[Kizuchan]

Am I the only one who got reminded of Norland's flashback with the meaningless sacrifice to the sea-god? Calgara simply stuck to the traditions, even if they were harmful. In a way, Hodi actually seems to view the conflict between humans and fishmen this way, that it's something that musn't go away because it's been there for so long. That and he's pretty much utterly insane at this point.

[wolfwoof]

This is the sort of thing that's going to be overanalyzed for years to come isn't it

[Don Quichotte De Flamingo]

^^
Nahh, just until the next arc starts..but so far we have to get at least a bit out of this one.

[Kizuchan]

This is the sort of thing that's going to be overanalyzed for years to come isn't it

Everything gets overanalyzed around here. lol.

[Leviathan]

Love it how everyone on this forum has spend the last 2 weeks speculating about what Hody might have said, only to have Oda surprise us all. Good luck finding another mangaka who does that all the time during the entire serialisation.

[O baba]

Brook Vs Doflamingo, Brook will natralise Dofla power!

[ChesCa]

Hm, not much I can say that hasn't already been said. Brook and Usopp were pretty awesome.
As for Hodi, at first I was like "HOW ANTI-CLIMATIC!!", but when it settled in I saw what a different direction it was and what Oda was trying to do. I've accepted it now and even like it a little. It's not Shakespeare, but I can still go 'Heh, that's pretty cool.'

[DarthAsthma]

i like hody for the same reason i like kefka. it's good to have a villain who's actually a villain and not a misunderstood jerk.