Chapter 645: "Death Is Also Revenge"

[igetownd]

He's an amateur at Fishman Karate; he could probably do a number on others in the crew who aren't immune to blunt kicks and punches (Gomu Gomu no Mi) and who don't have the power to predict and dodge all his projectile attacks (CoO). It isn't really disproportionate as much as the fact that his techniques are largely ineffective against Luffy, because Luffy has those two big advantages. I do think Hody would give Sanji or Franky a much better fight than he has Luffy.

And I don't really see an issue with that. No matter how strong he gets, his teeth are his only real weapon against Luffy, so he's instead just trying to survive Luffy's moves with sheer endurance (which, as Luffy as noted, has been successful until this past chapter) because that's the one advantage he really had.

And not to mention, it's been noted that that bite did a decent amount of damage to Luffy, who's bleeding heavily at this point and made a note of saying his Busoshoku wasn't strong enough to block that.

The real reason Hodi dares to fight Luffy is because they're underwater, and Luffy has 2 major handicaps under water in a bubble. If Hodi really did go toe-to-toe on land, even with the monstrous power-up from ES, Luffy would stomp his ass in 10 seconds flat.

[MasterKingJC]

Darn it, the creepy little Internet man isn't pleased by my turn of phrase. What a source of undying shame. Back to the drawing board.

Found this picture, it reminds me of the Blackbeard's claw/Shank's scar scenario we were talking about.

http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net...61771_700b.jpg

And the fact that there's One Piece-related stuff next to it is also amusing.
Japanese Foreshadowing!

[dwo]

So Luffy can barely destroy a ship now. Not that surprising and entertaining. I am kind of dissapointed.

[srazysnake]

huh... use Wadatsume as cushion?

not a bad idea.. I guess []

[Bazoo]

Picture replies. Such winners. Like you're so busy not spending all your time on manga forums you need only make effective, hilarious points with one fell .jpeg swoop. Darn it again, it seems the OTHER creepy man woman whatever thing has been trained in Internets! Such wits.

[Zarnikon]

huh... use Wadatsume as cushion?

not a bad idea.. I guess []

I don't think that they are trying to use him as a cushion. Wadatsume is too small for that and it would be really lame. Also Sanji said "Jimbei", like they were going to do something together. I think they will kick/throw Wadatsume up against the ship to help destroy it and slow it down.

[BuryBury]

It would be ironic that Otohime and the Merfolk of Fishman island had subconscious prejudices against the more brutish Fishman which led to Fishman district being abandoned in all social integration efforts and this in turn led to the creation of Hodi Jones - socialised by his environment of victim-hood, neglect, poverty into a racist.

I've been thinking about this too, which is why I'm so interested in any scraps of information about Arlong and Shirley that might come up later in the arc. Being siblings, it's very interesting to compare their totally different paths in life despite their shared beginnings - they were both orphans in Fishman District too, right? I can't help but think Shirley had an easier time finding acceptance in respectable society because she's merfolk.

[Raging Donuts]

Picture replies. Such winners. Like you're so busy not spending all your time on manga forums you need only make effective, hilarious points with one fell .jpeg swoop. Darn it again, it seems the OTHER creepy man woman whatever thing has been trained in Internets! Such wits.

Spoiler:

[Katzztar]

I've been thinking about this too, which is why I'm so interested in any scraps of information about Arlong and Shirley that might come up later in the arc. Being siblings, it's very interesting to compare their totally different paths in life despite their shared beginnings - they were both orphans in Fishman District too, right? I can't help but think Shirley had an easier time finding acceptance in respectable society because she's merfolk.

Maybe its just me but that doesn't make sense. There are mermen in the New Fishmen Pirates so just being merfolk had nothing with being accepted . In the Ryuuga kingdom there wre plenty of fishfolk, both male and female. In fact in a SBS ODa says thatthe first fishwoman we ever saw, Octopako, was a celeberty from Gloverly Hills. Being fish- or mer-folk isn't part of the aceptance, its their attatude. That is the difference between Arlong and Shirley. He was a thug and she prefered to act more civilalized. To me I see them as kids who were raised in the poorest areas, big bro acted angry and became a thug, little sister wanted to be classy and worked to get out of the ghetto.

[Baou Zakurga]

Hmm,why Shirley is living a nice life on the island,while Arlong didnt.....

Having fortune telling power/ability/whatever probably didnt hurt Shirley's rise out of the slums.

[BuryBury]

Maybe its just me but that doesn't make sense. There are mermen in the New Fishmen Pirates so just being merfolk had nothing with being accepted . In the Ryuuga kingdom there wre plenty of fishfolk, both male and female. In fact in a SBS ODa says thatthe first fishwoman we ever saw, Octopako, was a celeberty from Gloverly Hills. Being fish- or mer-folk isn't part of the aceptance, its their attatude. That is the difference between Arlong and Shirley. He was a thug and she prefered to act more civilalized. To me I see them as kids who were raised in the poorest areas, big bro acted angry and became a thug, little sister wanted to be classy and worked to get out of the ghetto.

Yeah, there's that too. I tend to cross over into the realm of fanfiction with my thoughts on fishmen and merfolk and this whole arc when I should read it again to remember the facts. It didn't occur to me to compare them to ghetto kids... of course, now I want to know if they came from a bad area to begin with and if the siblings were always so different. (Wonder if Shirley ever tried to read her brother's future!)

[lizard81288]

Cool! Chopper can control Monster Point!

[Bazoo]

Oh no, he done it again! No matter how aloof I get, their .jpegs get them... aloofer. So Internet.

[akagami7]

Oh no, he done it again! No matter how aloof I get, their .jpegs get them... aloofer. So Internet.

You mad? that was a gif

[Czechmate]

The real reason Hodi dares to fight Luffy is because they're underwater, and Luffy has 2 major handicaps under water in a bubble. If Hodi really did go toe-to-toe on land, even with the monstrous power-up from ES, Luffy would stomp his ass in 10 seconds flat.

Well, he certainly dared to fight him on land, he just didn't get anywhere (or even touch Luffy XD). I understand what you mean though, a Red Hawk on land probably would have finished Hody then and there. But despite the seven or eight powerful hits Luffy gave Hody on land the latter didn't falter at all, and Luffy himself commented twice that he was very tough. All I'm saying is that I don't see any issues with the ES power-up between Hody's offensive power and his stamina, they both raised dramatically; Luffy's just damn good at dodging and taking attacks not involving teeth, and with the ES powerup Hody's pretty good at tanking hits too.

So Luffy can barely destroy a ship now. Not that surprising and entertaining. I am kind of dissapointed.

Have you considered the fact that the ship is half the size of Fishman Island? Or the fact that Luffy isn't done destroying it yet? Or that he's basically doing the equivalent of a small Buster Call literally with his bare hands?

[Bazoo]

There are limits, my friend, to how angry men who collect figurines can make me.

[Juvar]

There are limits, my friend, to how angry men who collect figurines can make me.

I love you man please keep this going. A bit more related to wherever you're posting in would be nice, too.

[choperman]

So Luffy can barely destroy a ship now. Not that surprising and entertaining. I am kind of dissapointed.

You do realize the ships as big as an island right???? and it's not just any little ship it survives in the water without coating??? it would actually be way to ridiculous if luffy could just destroy an island size mega ship in one hit, I don't want to be reading dragon ball z where they can only use a percentage of their actual power in the end

[gotta<3OP]

Sure why not, just don't wish to talk about it and bring to much of negative into a chapter thread. It usually doesn't end up well.

Well, talking is always cool. And I think that if you explained your point of view like this in every chapter, people wouldn't think you're a troll. (I realized you weren't only 2 or 3 weeks from now)

So if I would to say what perhaps in the recent chapters, (and let me say here that I liked the last two - but like you said did not thoroughly enjoy them) what lacked, what bothered me was that feeling of stretching things and " a bit like" forcing them. To explain. IMO Oda tries too hard to emphasise the difference between the merfolk and the humans. The hatred between the merfolk and the humans. The overall wall between those two...

I do think he tries too hard. But then I see this thread, and most of the times I realize, too hard is not enough. :/

Like someone already said. I believe most of us get's it. So all those screams and speeches and additional chapters and screen time relating to that topic does not, at least for me feel natural. It feels forced and so I find speeches like those of Otohime and just now Fukaboshi unrealistic, like a broken record and even silly at some times.

I actually didn't think they were unrealistic. Its just that it seems kind of stupid if you start the chapter, you get a flashback and then the guy starts sending a random speech. But it was not a speech, it was more of a dialog which was overheard. He had JUST (the chronical order of those chapters was messed up a bit, the speech was right after he heard the "Nothing" part) discovered his own country and his own political acts, had created those monsters. And he simply lamented to Luffy. He was just letting out is frustation in the form of a speech, like when you cheat on your girlfriend then you tell it to your bestfried, crying in regreat (not like I did that). Of course while it was not "forced", I did think "Hew, wtv this is cool, but I already knew what you said". But there are 9 and 10 years old reading this. And this is no Seinnen. Oda has to provide "unnecessary" information, and kind of treat is readers like dumb people. Unlike other series, which you can't get even a tiny bit without thinking. But One Piece is not like that. And when you read it as a whole, its kind of nice having every little thing explained, and underlined. You can just seat back and enjoy. However it does get kind of frustating to wait a week and get something we already knew.

We understood much of the problematic beforehand, before coming to this island, we got some extra touches about it with things like Tiger-fisher flashback which was ok. But Otohime's flashback, her way of "forcing" people to go and live with humans and speaking about this reverie like it is the next best thing after Snickers, that was puzzling and at the same time and felt forced for me.

I think it was not that puzzling. It was actually quite dynamic and felt really neat. After all, we first get to know how much Fishman like the Sun, and the importance of beeing under the sun. They even choose the only place under the see were light shined. Fisher Tiger's Pirates were called Sun Pirates, for a reason. They fought for a place under the son. And according to last chapter, they once had that place. We even get to see how much the children liked to run away and see the Park. And there was also Shabondy were we saw what happened to fishman when under the sun. They were treated like fish.
If they were, for once in years (Centuries may be forced) approved as more than fish, and allowed to join the reverie, of course they would treat it like the best thing on earth after cheeseburger. In the reverie they could fight for better rights, fight for equality, fight for freedom. Otohime didn't order anyone to go and live with anyone. She was colkecting signatures, and he did not point a gun to does who did not want to sign. Obviously every single fishman wanted their spot under the sun, even those who burned those signatures. Those simply wanted to earn that freedom, without begging to humans, but they wanted it, nevertheless.

Why, why do they need to go to this reverie so bad, why would they need to mix up with people so much, or on the other hand why all those cries to them and all those sacrifices which are just too much.
Like the pride and the silence of "weakhoshi" who kept silent about the true killer of her mother and so on... and it is dragging in every chapter and as an icing on the cake. Hodi is slapped and slapped and slapped and he just keeps on taking pills and than not only is he alright but he becomes stronger and eventually becomes a big threat and because of that we basically get the entire twist and whole bunch of chapters which otherwise wouldn't be necessary and in the end I am not one of those people which would need to see a fair fight to get the enjoyment. You know what. If Hodi and his company are just weaker than the SH's than so be it. Don't need no pills to make it exciting, cause after all it makes it so much real. At one point you get strong opponents at other times you are just that much superior and if it saves us a whole lot of "unnecessary panels" all the better.
One of my favorite moments in OP is still the time when Luffy owned Bellamy. Not because it was badass (which it was) but because it was unexpected, nicely done, got the point across and saved us loads of time of a fight which was not needed to tell us what needed to be told at the time. Which was : a) level of Luffy and b) his attitude towards friendship

WI don't mind unnecessary panels. Fights like Bellamy are interesting, and straight forward. But if everytime he fought someone weaker, he threw a punch like that, it would take the uniqueness of those punches. Instead of it beeing an high point in the plot, it would be just another of that kind. And Hodi did not put that much of a fight, he was able to get one hit in, and just got punched 10 times or so. He couldn't even block a single punch. It was just that Oda wanted to fit in all those plot points during the fight, and having a dynamic battle in the water, with a resistant Hodi was just the best he could do.
About the steroids, they were not for an unnecessary strength builduing, for that they could simply be that strong. It wouldn't even be that much of a stretch, as Fishman are stronger than human, therefore a strong fishman could have that much durability without problems. The steroids were to better characterize the NFP, they work as suicide bombing, that lasts for a fight. They are to show the enemies are martyrs, who would die for their cause. (And in an unrelated matter, Luffy uses things that could kill me cause he wants to live, and wants his friends to live, Hodi does it cause it does not matters if he dies).
Steroids are an easy way to get that kind of a martyr effect in the whole group. And Oda can choose to make of them a bridge to the new world's plot, or hit the reset button, and make them a drug specific to the island (Urashima's casket...).

So what I say is, let us see the interesting bits like Blackbeard owning a weapon which he probably used to hurt Shanks, let us learn about Joy Boy, let us talk about Noah, let us see the FI, let us have fun and let them go shopping if they want. Let us do all that and have the feeling the story is progressing in a natural way and when a problem comes it will come naturally and in the end don't stretch the problem any longer than needed.

Naturally I ll wait and see how this wraps up, because something, something is missing right here, right now for me something important should happen or should be discovered in this arc, something that has a bigger meaning to it all, than all of this which has happened and is happening right now.


Hope that I have answered your question

Well, I should had my post is only MY OPINION... obviously. And I do think its not that bad to stretch the problems, it gives us a more graphic feel, and us we know every thing is going to get explained (from past reference), there is no need to stress over unnecessary things. I think of them as a bonus, after all, the more the better.
Its like Davy Back Fight, it was almost unnecessary, but it was funny and a good read, so... who cares. ^^

[Baou Zakurga]

Prediction: next chap is gonna start with a flashback of Chopper learning about how to unlock the rumbles power and his fruits power,or something like that...