Recession Revolutions Thread Part II: Arabia and Beyond

[igetownd]

Despite having a nuclear arsenal, North Korea's military power is all but embarrassing. However, South Korea's is even more so (I think that is a historical trend for Korea, with the northern part as armed to the teeth and the south as a bustling trading port).

As for the Middle East, would it be possible for the Middle East to unite as an empire like it has in the past? I don't think the wars to achieve that will be pleasant though.

[Monkey King]

South Korea has one of the largest armies in the world, and unlike the North it's a modern well funded army. So I don't really know what you're saying the North has on them.

The North has the nukes is all, and more troops maybe but considering those troops are barely kept fed and armed with 60's Soviet crap I think we can see how numbers don't matter so much.

[Gliblord]

What does NK's massive army do, exactly? Apart from patrol the border?

[Monkey King]

As for the Middle East, would it be possible for the Middle East to unite as an empire like it has in the past? I don't think the wars to achieve that will be pleasant though.

You mean like a huge Arab nation state from Morrocco all the way over to the borders with Iran and Turkey?
Arabs are a widespread group you know, the folks in Morocco don't really have much in common with people in Dubai aside from religion and deserts. Even Arabic is really different across the board. Ask Tigerlilly or Bar Kum about how easily they can understand Gulf Arabic relative to their own.

Plus there's ethnic minorities in there who wouldn't be thrilled. Druz, Berbers, Kurds, Assrians, Christians and any Shiite people since this country would be hella dominate Sunni.

I don't think it would work. And I really doubt most Tunisians for instance have even the slightest fantasy of becoming united with places like Yemen.

--- Update From New Post Merge ---

What does NK's massive army do, exactly? Apart from patrol the border?

Eat bark and grass.

By this point so many new recruits might come from the famine generations that single South Korean troops could probably beat a whole pack of them up in a fist fight due to malnutrition.

[Prismeru]

Mexico is anxious to keep our autoritarian party, PRI, from coming back to power. Well, it´s only like 5 paragraphs in there but it´s all over Mexico (except the media because they are the one feeding us prefabricated news) right now.

[Ubiq]

As an update on the diplomatic squabble between Saudi Arabia and Egypt, the Saudis handled it by throwing money at the problem until it went away... more or less.

[bartholemew kuma]

Megrahi is Dead.

[No Maam]

As an update on the diplomatic squabble between Saudi Arabia and Egypt, the Saudis handled it by throwing money at the problem until it went away... more or less.

I think I'm going to have a diplomatic dispute with Saudi Arabia now.

[Fire-Fist]

I wonder how will western states react if Muslim Brotherhood wins egypt elections

[Shandian]

I dont think there will be any noticable reaction, they dont expect friendly diplomatic ties with Egypt governed by Brotherhood so I guess no fuss is made and normal diplomacy ensues and tourism on Egypt will remain popular. I dont think it will even be that bad for Egypt since it has always been very moderate on islam and because tourism is such a great economic boost for country they would be quite stupid to endanger countrys stature as a tourism choice by international hostility.

Only real international concern for Egypt under Muslim Brotherhood is their relationship with Israel and entire Gaza/Egypt/Israel affair. Since Israel has understandibly quite bad reputation amongs egyptians, new goverment might be tempted to boost their popularity by taking more hostile stance against Israel what can increase tensions in that volatile area. Gaza affair between two neighbour countrys can get quite tense.

I personally dislike possibility of MB winning elections because I dont think that any religion generally should be mixed with governing country and because certain fundmendalist values might be enforced and stature of women and minoritys might be further weakened. But also I can understand that there is very little choice because Mubarak completely suffocated any kind of political opposition and party structure on Egypt during his long long reign and since Muslim Brotherhood is pretty much only organisated...well political movement/party there is quite a little options left for Egyptians to make.

I only hope that egyptians can now at last start their climb towards multiparty democracy and that Brotherhood will give Egypt a chance to transform in proper democratic state.

[Monkey King]

I dont think it will even be that bad for Egypt since it has always been very moderate on islam

No it hasn't. Are you mistaking the party line of the dictatorship on religion for the actual level of religiosity of the population?
Turkey is a moderate Muslim country, Bangladesh is a moderate Muslim country, and stuff like Albania and Azerbaijan are pretty much secular Muslim countries. Egypt is nowhere close to these.

I personally dislike possibility of MB winning elections because I dont think that any religion generally should be mixed with governing country and because certain fundmendalist values might be enforced and stature of women and minoritys might be further weakened. But also I can understand that there is very little choice because Mubarak completely suffocated any kind of political opposition and party structure on Egypt during his long long reign and since Muslim Brotherhood is pretty much only organisated...well political movement/party there is quite a little options left for Egyptians to make.

It's not even that. Egyptians are very conservative religious people.
The Brotherhood isn't the boogeyman many people think it is (the Salafi parties on the other hand...). Sure they're definitely more conservative and hardline than their counterpart parties in Tunisia and I assume Libya (might need to ask Bar Kum about that), to say nothing of Erdogan's party in Turkey.
But way I see it, democracy may tame them. And over time they may evolve toward more moderate pragmatic minded politics, and let the readical religious bullshit stick to the fringe with the Salafi parties. Already there's indication of this within them, with younger members being more moderate and so forth than the older ones. Which is a good sign. Unfortunately this means being patient with it. It won't be ideal, and it will ruffle Western feathers to a degree as well as be tense with Israel. But as long as nothing gets...set off. Egypt should grind toward better horizons. Yes grind, but frankly agonizing slow grinds are what usually happens with these things. So that's what a realistic optimist should see as good.

I only hope that egyptians can now at last start their climb towards multiparty democracy and that Brotherhood will give Egypt a chance to transform in proper democratic state.

I'm more concerned about the military really.

[Zack]

I'm more concerned about the military really.

Exactly how has the situation been with them over the past half-year or so been with them? I admit I pretty much got a lot of the information on this entire conflict over this thread, so since it doesn't really update that often now with Libya taking over most news back then as well, I haven't really kept up with how things have been progressing in Egypt. All I know is the last time I heard about the military was that they were pretty much acting like dicks.

Does anyone have any recommended news sites for getting information, or just browse around for it in general? Or would it be Aljazeera like before? Also, I'd be curious if there's a certain site where you'll get your general types of news as well if you'll care to.

[bartholemew kuma]

O.k. Um i see a few questions here need to be answered.

1. Anyone who speaks arabic can go to any arab country and understand them. The only difference are accents and slang. There is proper arabic, full formal which is spoken by everybody. Full formal.

2. Egypt is basically 2 regions, the big cities (Alexandria, Cairo, Sharam) which are less conservative and more open. The majority of coptics live in those 3 areas. The rest of Egypt is small farm villages and towns, much more conservative.

3. The muslim brotherhood are not the super scary people, the Salafists are. The only fear is that both groups have tight connections with each other.

[Monkey King]

O.k. Um i see a few questions here need to be answered.

1. Anyone who speaks arabic can go to any arab country and understand them. The only difference are accents and slang. There is proper arabic, full formal which is spoken by everybody. Full formal.

2. Egypt is basically 2 regions, the big cities (Alexandria, Cairo, Sharam) which are less conservative and more open. The majority of coptics live in those 3 areas. The rest of Egypt is small farm villages and towns, much more conservative.

3. The muslim brotherhood are not the super scary people, the Salafists are. The only fear is that both groups have tight connections with each other.

What is the Salafist presence like in Libya? I see they're raising cane in even Tunisia, who is the most moderate in the region. So I imagine Libya has these dudes around too.
What will it take I wonder to move a society toward personal religion instead of social religion. Social religion just isn't good. What made most of Europe do it...

[Gliblord]

How successful have Salafist parties been throughout the region in general

[Monkey King]

How successful have Salafist parties been throughout the region in general

They've been kind of tertiary.
Kind of like Marie Le Pen in France, or Ross Perot or something.
There's usually the "left" party and the "right" party like the MB. And the "hard right" Salafis.

[Gliblord]

[Monkey King]

As little has changed in North Korea, the slight changes brought upon by the new regime are really strange anyway. Like simple stuff like this.
http://www.aljazeera.com/video/asia-...134744750.html
It's normal anywhere, but remember this is the country that polices the ability of anyone to see outside it's potemkin villages, and now we got guys bringing international news teams to see evidence of problems.

[Fire-Fist]

An Egyptian court has sentenced ex-President Hosni Mubarak to life in prison for complicity in the killing of protesters during last year's uprising.

• Hosni Mubarak: Guilty of conspiring in killing of protesters - life imprisonment; not guilty of corruption
• Alaa and Gamal Mubarak: Not guilty of corruption
• Former Interior Minister Habib al-Adly: Guilty of conspiring in killing of protesters - life imprisonment
• Four aides of al-Adly: Not guilty of charges of complicity, instigation and providing assistance in the murder and attempted murder of protesters
• Hussein Salem, business tycoon: Not guilty of corruption

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18306126

[Smudger]

Hey firefist, how's things over there? I heard the drone attacks are causing more issues.