General Discussion: THE STORY

[piratemarimo]

I'd read 50 Shades of Gray...but I don't wanna'.

Also BOO YEAH another batch done!

*Let's the stories pile up again*

@Marimo: I hate the second complaint A LOT. It would be one thing if someone was obssessed with only that bad story for life but more often than not it's used by cowardly authors and irritating fans who don't want to admit there's something wrong with the work.

The most exposure I've had to it is when celebs read excerpts from it. Then it's hilarious. Some of them will literally throw the book because they're so embarrassed by it. I'm somewhat interested in the group of people who say they hate the book because it's a terrible representation of BDSM. In their mind what is a good example (of a published work)? Personally I've read plenty (okay maybe not plenty) of non-published fanfiction that's more thoughtful. It's not surprising that most people would probably say a normal book is better. It's a bit like apples to oranges though. Like comparing manga to Candide. Then there are those who say it's lowering the standard of books, and somehow the better quality ones get rejected. I'm not entirely certain how the statistics would support that claim, but I would love it if there was someone in the world keeping records of this kind of stuff. I dunno why, it's just been a really fascinating thing for me lately.

It's so bizarre when criticizers get told the "U ARE JUST JEALOUS! HATERS GON HATE" response like author/fans think they're purposefully trying to make them upset. There's no room for discussion? you'd rather claw my face off angrily than try to talk about pros and cons? It's not impossible to finish something and be completely satisfied, but come on. Even something that's really spectacular merits discussion. And to be fair, it is equally annoying when people who don't like it feel the need to mention it in comparison to something else even if it's not relevant.

[LaCaSiNa]

I had to google this 50 Shades of Grey thing since I had no idea what it was.

Well, that's definitely an addition to the list of books I never want to read.

[piratemarimo]

oh for fuck's sake.

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/07/18/...rey-treatment/

No No NO NO NO NO NO. I don't even have the words to express my incredulity and rage... hey parodies, right? zombie AU, fine, whatever, everything is crossed over with zombies. But this?? You just crossed a fucking line, publishing industry.

"we’re keeping the works as close to the original classics as possible"??? NO YOU FUCKING AREN'T YOU STUPID FUCKS. As if butchering classic literature weren't bad enough, you're pretending you actually give a damn about preserving it as it was meant to be read. Even if I wanted to read classic literature turned into porn, I wouldn't want to read something as horrendous as that. You're not even trying to imitate the style at the barest minimum. Fuck everything.

[Kylor]

Well, I will try to address this in the most intelligent and articulate way possible.

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.

[Herodadotus]

oh for fuck's sake.

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/07/18/bronte-bondage-classic-literature-gets-fifty-shades-of-grey-treatment/

What?

Seriously . . . what?

[ChesCa]

This is like....morons looking for their next meal ticket are so devoid of creativity they'll ruin other people's literature just to make it easier for themselves to write.

I'd love to see the deceased authors rise from the graves to give these dickwads hell. At least Pride and Prejudice and Zombies and all that shit was ribbing parody. This is just awful and makes me hate the mothers that give demand to mommy porn.

[Dryish]

My beautiful Pride and Prejudice reduced to... No, I don't even want to utter the word. D:
I apologize for my use of rather coarse language here, but... Fuck you, human greed. Fuck you a thousand times.

[Kitsune Inferno]

What is this I don't want to even.

I don't want to even at all.

[trappedolphin]

;____________________________;

[Rogues' Gallery]

Original:

“‘Jane, be still a few moments: you are over-excited: I will be still too.’ Mr. Rochester sat quiet, looking at me gently and seriously. Some time passed before he spoke; he at last said — ‘Come to my side, Jane, and let us explain and understand one another.’”


New Version:

“‘Jane, be still a few moments, you are over-excited. I will be still too.’ My master captured my wrists and secured them behind my back, imprisoning me and preventing my movements… He exerted the force of his will as effortlessly as he schooled my person, relentlessly and with an inexorable force, he commanded me against his body… No matter how I controlled my mind, my very flesh was weak.”

Oh, what the Fuck. Seriously? The implied intimacy between the two characters in the original text is far more stimulating because its ever-so-subtle and not alll-over-your-damn-face. The end of the passage leaves just a sweet tasting tease in your mind to fill in the passionate blanks yourself. But in this generation, does EVERYTHING need to be so explicitly spelled out for us, like we're all a bunch of illiterate monkeys unable to grasp the meaning of underlying context?

And I'm not even DONE yet. Reading the "New Version" came across as INCREDIBLY CREEPY. Why? Let's break this shit down:

"captured my wrists and secured them behind my back, imprisoning me and preventing my movements"

"He exerted the force of his will"

"he commanded me against his body"

"No matter how I controlled my mind, my very flesh was weak"


THAT DOES NOT SOUND LIKE PASSIONATE, CONSENSUAL SEX TO ME. AT ALL. THAT IS RAPE. HE IS FORCEFULLY RAPING HER.

That passage is a message telling us that "Oh, it's actually perfectly okay to force sex upon a woman because they're secretly into that shit and want to be dominated by us men." FUCK NO. FUCK NO SOOO MUCH. That is an excuse that Deranged Rapists use to justify themselves and place the fault on the woman for "wanting it".

Is this type of Sexist, Misogynistic Horse-Shit Really what middle-aged women want to read? Is this Really the next-generation of Literature?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHJPERnmvxmseprzxcw rtyuyipT@#%($YGJROGJ@G"WBH JGN%_^T

[piratemarimo]

I normally love books, but I think this is the one series I want to light on fire. Every single fucking copy. I saw a gigantic pile of Fifty Shades sitting out at Costco today. In the first place, way to leave that garbage lying in the open, unwrapped. It was taking up like half the display. IT'S NOT FUNNY ANYMORE. ENOUGH. I'm tired of seeing it everywhere. And in emails, whenever I get the book recommendations/popular books from ebay, it lists practically nothing but Fifty Shades. I DON'T NEED TO SEE THAT LISTED SIX FUCKING TIMES IN EVERY EMAIL. HOW ABOUT SOMETHING DIFFERENT?? ARE YOU SERIOUSLY TELLING ME THAT THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT'S POPULAR BESIDES THIS FILTH??

Apparently it's okay to be a gigantic abusive asshole if you're extremely attractive. Yet somehow people are defending this series?? Women defend it! How is it okay?? Shitty writing, shitty excuse for porn, shitty characters, and a shitty plot. What the fuck.

[LaCaSiNa]

That sounds absolutely hilarious. You have to use it. Please.

I shall repeat that phrase in different forms for a couple of hundred pages and have female readers panting everywhere and make millions of dollars.

cuz yay over-generalisation

[Crossword]

I was doing some writing on the subway ride home from wrk today andnoticed that the man sitting next to me was trying to discreetly take a peek at what I was doing. Since I was basically writing a psycho's motive speech, I wonder what he must've thought.

[piratemarimo]

I was doing some writing on the subway ride home from wrk today andnoticed that the man sitting next to me was trying to discreetly take a peek at what I was doing. Since I was basically writing a psycho's motive speech, I wonder what he must've thought.

that sounds like a terrific idea. when out in public, write about something creepy or bizarre in the hopes that someone is trying to see what you're doing. It'll be just like that scene from the beginning of DMC where the officer picks up the notebook.

[ChesCa]

For last year's NaNoWriMo one of my central character's was a serial killer. I wrote his torture scene in full public view. B)

P.S. I'm one of those guys with a laptop in Starbucks that actually is writing a novel. Yay me.

[trappedolphin]

This was posted on my Facebook News Feed today, and I found it to be a really enjoyable read. Thought some of you might like it too~

http://www.lettersofnote.com/2012/07...our-heart.html

[ChesCa]

This was posted on my Facebook News Feed today, and I found it to be a really enjoyable read. Thought some of you might like it too~

http://www.lettersofnote.com/2012/07...our-heart.html

Trapped, I would sig that whole letter if I could.

I don't think it's too arrogant of me to say I'm a living example of what Scott's talking about. ;)

[Uncle Kenny]

Welp, as part of my promise to write the next chapter of Thriller Blend, I decided to re-read the entire first chapter today and try to see where my style is right now. And to be quite honest, I have to say that Side A was stupidly rigid and really boring. =P

Side B was a lot better since everything was much more loose and light-hearted but Side A was daunting in just how rigid it is. Not to mention, Britney either didn't get enough screen time or has little personality at this point. It's something I plan to take into consideration when writing the next chapter so hopefully things will be funner and Britney will be an easier character to follow.

Though maybe I've just read it too much at this point. Still, I think I'll keep it in mind.

[ChesCa]

There's probably already a discussion in the TGWTG thread but fuck it, it belongs here too.

Nostalgia Chick discusses Orson Scott Card and how his ideological views are hurting him: http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/vid...63-enders-game

Personally, I am a typical case of liking Card before I knew of his bigotry. I had been first introduced to him via a book about the redemption of Christopher Columbus, and all through out middle and high school I had read the Ender series (need to reread), the Hegemon series (Bean has been my favorite protagonist by far), the Alvin Journeyman series (I consider this to be my Narnia) and an assortment of other books ranging from fantasy to ghost stories.

Then you factor in that he is a homophobe and my image of him as a person drops a little. Or rather a lot.

For me, this raises two issues: One about the disparity of author intent and reader interpretation and whether an author's....shall we say 'choices'...should count against his or her writing skill.

For the latter, I'll sum up by saying I recognize and still admire his skill, but I can not in good conscience buy any more of his books while he operates under that mentality (thankfully I can go to library. Yay loopholes!) This is a case where my sense of the greater good trumps my pride as a writer.

Going back to the former notion of author intent vs interpretation, that's something I've always found to be a given in writing a story. Personally I think the more interpretations your stories get, the more likely it is that you as a writer are reaching more people. Personally I can live with that (although if someone made a batshit insane argument that tries to twist my story to their political view I will deliver a beatdown. No neo-con's gonna' preach that DLS is a dystopian liberal future without me stepping in. >:( )

So, any thoughts on these issues from anyone else?

[Herodadotus]

I tend to separate writer's opinions from their writing, unless they frequently put their ideology in their writing.

I don't think Orson Scott Card is a good human being, but he is a good writer. Lots of authors and directors have very strange habits, horrible ideology, etc. But I don't think that takes away from their skill and it never should. I disagree with Card's views wholeheartedly, but he's an excellent writer and his works should be viewed as a seperate entity. If an author's profits go towards their ideological views, then I won't buy them, but otherwise, I don't see a problem in buying someone's books just because you don't agree with their views.

But on the topic of great visionaries that weren't great people, there are so many of them. For example, Stanley Kubrick and Alfred Hitchcock both psychologically messed with and intimidated actors that worked on their movies. Does that make their movies any less masterful? Edgar Allan Poe was an alcoholic, and Fyodor Dostyevsky was a compulsive gambler. But should their personal actions reflect on their work? F. Scott Fitzgerald spent his entire life trying to prevent his wife from getting published and trying to send her into an asylum. But does that make the Great Gatsby a terrible novel? (Not my favorite, but it is a classic.)

Orson Scott Card isn't at the same level as these guys in my opinion, but my point is that a person is a person, and you may not agree with what they do. But if they are a good writer, I prefer to keep the two people seperate.