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Thread: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

  1. #24201

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Yeah. It was. There's old versions of this thread where I, Brennen, and Urogue defended him at length really super early on.

    Here, check the first post of this thread from January 2009.

    http://www.apforums.net/showthread.php?t=21067

    Or this thread from 2010.
    http://www.apforums.net/showthread.php?t=28386

    I can't find the version 4 of this thread at the moment, but more of the same.



    From BEFORE HE EVEN APPEARED ON CAMERA.

    It may have taken other people a long time to *accept* it, so maybe you didn't buy into it until the timeskip, but the solid debates were there before he was even on camera. If you weren't horribly put off by his weird fat guy design, it was absolutely there. As is, most of the problems people had at the time was that he was too powerful and would overshadow Luffy... which obviously the timeskip fixed.

    Note that at one point those polls had joke answers like "Akainu" that no longer show, so some votes are lost to history jokes.

    Thanks. Listen, I'll always admit when I'm disproven, but this still isn't my point.

    My original argument was that Jinbe's importance in the story shouldn't have any bearing on how "important" Carrot must be in her introduction arcs in order for her to be considered for anything. People are literally shutting others down because she hasn't been as important to the story since her introduction as Jinbe was in Marinford.

  2. #24202
    6 Million HP Banana Oni MrBits's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfDarkness View Post
    I said Jinbe's design was extremely unique. Not the single most unique design in the series.

    Comparing them is subjective and hardly means anything.
    Cool. So we agree that when we're arguing about Carrot or [insert future Wano character here] and [insert noteworthy returning character here] that character design is "subjective and hardly means anything," and that we should just care about their role in the story.
    Goku for Smash. I want to believe.

  3. #24203

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by AvocadoInTheRain View Post
    Luffy entrusted her to help ensure the whole crew survived while he fought Katakuri.
    Luffy entrusting Franky to save Robin is pretty different from Luffy entrusting Carrot.

    Luffy held a grudge against Franky for beating up Usopp and stealing the money. That's why him entrusting Franky later to save Robin is a big moment for the characters.

    Luffy entrusting Carrot hardly means anything in regards to how he sees her.

  4. #24204

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by Galaxy 9000 View Post
    If there was a single moment in the sea-chase sequence of 20 chapters where she did the job better than anybody else, I would absolutely believe that Oda is making the lookout role a dedicated role in his story.
    There was a great moment back on Zou, but apparently that doesn't matter. Usopp, Chopper, and Robin showed they were good at their job irrespective of them being on a ship.

    If there was a single mention of the dedicated lookout in the series, I also would be less cynical about this. It doesn't matter if there was one helmsman mentioned before, or 100, because it's about the roles that Oda has established in his story within the pirate crews he has created. And up to this point, crews have rotated who looks out at any given time.
    You seriously lack imagination if you can't even conceive of Oda assigning a rotating role to a single person (something that has happened many times before). You're being Drax-levels of literal here if you don't think the role can exist because it isn't named, even when it has been depicted 1001 times in the series.

    But all he had her do was take on the "look, there's something behind you", role. Something that unnamed characters have been capable of doing for 900+ chapters.
    And also jump half a mile into the sky in order to see further, but that doesn't count because you said so.

    Purely coincidence

  5. #24205

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gia Sado View Post
    Thanks. Listen, I'll always admit when I'm disproven, but this still isn't my point.

    My original argument was that Jinbe's importance in the story shouldn't have any bearing on how "important" Carrot must be in her introduction arcs in order for her to be considered for anything. People are literally shutting others down because she hasn't been as important to the story since her introduction as Jinbe was in Marinford.
    It isn't even only about Jinbe, though.

    It's also in relation to how she's been depicted when compared to the Straw Hats as a collective whole, not just to one of them. We can argue for hours about Jinbe's merits compared to hers, but how about everybody else's merits in their introduction arcs when compared to hers?

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  6. #24206

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBits View Post
    Cool. So we agree that when we're arguing about Carrot or [insert future Wano character here] and [insert noteworthy returning character here] that character design is "subjective and hardly means anything," and that we should just care about their role in the story.
    I was referring to comparing Jinbe with Moria, or Apoo.

    Not in general.

  7. #24207

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Have we gone 40 pages in a loop with no new information at all to debate her. I'm not trying to tell people what to do but I don't think much will really change for the time being until the reverie ends. Maybe we'll get a new thing with other bounty reveals towards the beginning of Wano. So getting agitated seems kind of pointless since we'll get this sooner anyways. It just feels like there's a creative impasse here that all depends on mostly "she's the best one for now" vs "there'll definintely be a better one later".
    Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:
    So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?
    H x H Chimera Ant Arc / OP Manga Spoiler
    Spoiler:



  8. #24208

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by Galaxy 9000 View Post
    Yes, he has a clear way of doing a lot of things, and that leads to predictions that are based on the narrative, and not just "he's so unpredictable". As has been said countless times in this thread, Carrot is no Nico Robin. There is zero reason to hide any sort of meaningful backstory for her like he did for Robin, and even with Robin, Oda gave us bits and pieces of intrigue for her before revealing her full backstory. Carrot has gotten none of that, and instead has gotten 3 panels of shoehorned in backstory with Pedro, who she barely interacted with in the arc before he blew up.
    1) The argument isn't that he's unpredictable, it's that he deviates from these tropes from time to time which is simply fact.
    2) I merely pointed out that you were wrong for saying that Carrot can't possibly be a strawhat because she didn't have an extented backstory & development 100 chapters from her introduction because the same can be said of Robin. You saying "she's no Robin" is just your opinion & it's clearly deflection.
    3) Your statement that there's no reason for Oda to withhold an extended backstory for her doesn't hold any weight because you can't prove that & there's no reason for you to make such a claim considering the fact you do not have any extra access to information we don't know in regards to Oda's plans for the future. What we do know for a fact is that we have an upcoming arc which will heavily feature Carrot & her people and that is plenty enough reason to hold out on an extended backstory including her character.

    Again, a poneglyph search squad. The same exact thing that Pedro was doing before Big Mom nearly killed him. We have no idea what the "New Dawn" is, but it is heavily implied to be related to the Poneglyphs.

    If it's not that, it's for what Robby mentioned above.
    There has been no indication in the story for anyone to conclude that the nox pirates will be revived & that it will have anything to do with Carrot. This is a theory you guys conjured up from thin air with no story information supporting it.

    Oda already introduced the concept of other pirate crews having collections of poneglyph rubbings
    Spoiler:

    so what makes you assume that instead of getting the ponegyph rubbings from other crews, Carrot & the other minks will search for them (with no leads to where any of them are might I add)?

    It would be nice for balance, but there's no arbitrary "it has to be a female" rule. Simply being a female does not add to her uniqueness, either.
    No one said it has to be a female. A female bunny mink would be a unique addition.
    No, Jinbe actually did show off most of his crewmate potential during those arcs. And he had a shorter time to do it, with only ~60 chapters of screen-time before the timeskip happened.

    Go back and look at his interactions with Luffy, along with the skills he showed during the escape (master of Fishman Karate, his unique fishman ability to talk to fish). It's a night and day difference of portrayal where he was actively participating the entire time. When you compare what he got there to Carrot, it's where you can see that she is being treated like a side-character.
    1)No he didn't. None of that screams "potential nakama. Some of the stuff you're arguing Carrot doesn't have, Jinbe didn't have.
    2) The characters actively had to do stuff to accomplish their goals. He actively had to do stuff to escape impel down. He actively had to do stuff in marineford, because he was in the middle of a war,

    One powerup chapter where she displayed the ability that her entire race has.
    False. Are you going to intentionally disregard everything that happened in the WCI arc because it doesn't fit your narrative?

    -She defeated multiple BMP's & captured Brulee
    Spoiler:





    -Her drawings allowed them to find & save Pedro, Nami, Jinbe, brook

    -The most important part of her sulong moment (which you're intentionally downplaying) is Carrot dismatling the fleet that was chasing the sunny

    These are huge highlight moments.
    • Black hair in a topknot.
    • Golden sideburns.
    • Fangs
    • A lightning scar on his eye.
    • Always wearing a Kimono and a cloak.
    • Unique body shape within the crew.
    Please do show me another fishman that is as impressive in design as Jinbe. And fishmen that just embody the traits of their respective fish-race don't count, either. Carrot's one distinct trait when compared to other minks is that she's a rabbit mink. I want you to imagine Jinbe being introduced, and his only distinct trait being that he is a whale-shark fishman.
    A design being impressive is opinion-based so I'm not about to debate something like that. You said Jinbe was distinct among fishman which is ridiculous since a lot of fishman have distinct designs,

    Anybody could give bulletpoints on a design.
    One of the traits you gave (his fangs) is directly the result of him being a whaleshark.
    This portion of the debate is kinda useless since Luffy/Sanji/Zoro/Usopp have similar looking bodies & Nami & Robin have the exact same body.

    They did not join the main cast. They joined a supporting ally group that will not appear in every arc for the rest of the series.
    No one said they joined the main cast. I clearly said they had no chance in hell of joing the main cast.
    I can say the exact same things now about Carrot. Certain elements of the story are being elevated to being sure-things for Carrot because people like her. It's always ignoring each of current Straw Hats that already exist, and how they were introduced, how they were portrayed in their arcs, and their backstories and personality. The argument continues to be "she'll get that development later", but he's had 100 chapters to do it at this point, and there's no reason to hide her true development for later like he did for Robin. So yes, I do equalize statements such as "Bartolomeo's dream is to help Luffy be Pirate King. You can see it when he defeats Gladius." to the statements made for Carrot.
    1)No you can't. The pro-carrot camp has blatantly given defined reasons as to why they believe what they do.
    2)I'll say it again, you cannot prove that there isn't a reason to delay her backstory. You keep deflecting to "100 chapters" & coming up with excuses & i'll say again, Robin was introduced in chapter 114. 100 Chapters later, chapter 214, she still had nothing going for her character. 100 more chapters, chapter 314, there was still no progress with Robin's character. Her backstory finally started with 391 which was 77 chapters later. So it took 277 chapters for Robin, but you keep throwing "100 chapters" in everyone's face. It's time to come up with a better rebuttal
    Yep, that new crewmember is likely going to be in the crew by the end of Wano. But that doesn't mean that it's a side-character like Carrot. Oda is highly capable of introducing a new character on Wano, and depicting them as all Straw Hats have been depicted, and have them join the crew. The argument that they would not get ample screen-time is moot, since if he could do it for Jinbe in an arc with dozens of people, and even Franky on Enies Lobby, he can do it there, too. That argument becomes further moot to argue against with the Carrot theory, because if she's really the 11th Straw Hat, Oda has done a terrible job at making her stick out in her apparent "true debut" arc with dozens of characters in it.
    Wano will have far more plot points & characters to develop & showcase than Enies Lobby & Impel down. Most of the characters in marineford were pre-existing characters who were developed in other arcs & very little was done with the vast majority of them. Franky's arc was actually water 7, an arc that didn't have much going on, not Enies Lobby.
    Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Nami, and Usopp are remnants of the simpler East Blue days. But you still have:

    Luffy: A Scar under his eye. Always wearing a Straw Hat. Always wearing a buttoned t-shirt with shorts.
    Zoro: A green haired human. Introduced wearing his signature bandana. Always carrying three-swords. Always wearing a Haramaki.
    Sanji: A human with twirly eyebrows. Always wearing a suit. Always has a cigarette in his mouth.
    Nami: The original Nami-face. A signature tattoo on her shoulder.
    Usopp: Long-nose. His name is a pun. Black woolly hair. Lips that stand out. Armband on his arm. A bandana on his head.

    And Robin, since you mentioned her: Introduced with a unique bridge-nose that no other female in the series had.

    None of those are just "normal human". Carrot is simply a "humanoid rabbit" in a race of "humanoid animals". Carrot also looks just like Chopper if you switch their faces.
    Carrot: short blond hair, long ears, always carrying claw weapons, always wearing dress

    You see how ridiculous this is right?

    Why do you keep simplifying carrot's design & over-exaggerating the crew? Saying carrot is just a humanoid rabbit equivalent to saying that the rest of the crew aside from Franky brook & chopper are just humans.

    You mention Chopper, Franky, and Brook as super unique designs, and they are. That should show you that Oda's creativity has improved ten-fold as the series has progressed through the years. If he has so much creativity in him, why would he settle for such a basic design for the final main character? He has put more effort into other side-characters than he has for Carrot.
    Oda has had wacky & creative designs since the begenning. That didn't stop him from giving Luffy. Zoro, Nami, Robin & Usopp simple designs. Some weird design is not necessary to join the crew.

    It's also part of what Chopper wants to do, along with his dream to cure all diseases. It'd be a copy of that aspect of Chopper, and would still be lame without something else accompanying it.
    Choppers main/official thing is to cure any disease. Wanting to explore the world is only lame in your opinion. It's no more "lame" than brook's dream.
    He will not fully achieve this dream until the journey is finished. When he leads the 8000-man force of the Straw Hat Grand Fleet into battle
    An 8000-man force is not a part of his official dream. He wanted to be a brave warrior, which, by definition, is something he has already become.

    It's very much a theory. She is doing the exact same things that all of the other Straw Hats have done throughout the series, and saying "Look out, there's a ship behind you." She isn't bringing anything new to the role that nobody else has been capable of doing for the entire series. The role does not seem to exist in Oda's story as a dedicated role, as no other pirate ship has been shown to have a dedicated lookout, and nobody has ever been called a lookout.
    So is jinbe. "Swordsman" isn't a dedicated role. Why do you keep repeating this after it was already proven that your argument for this is complete BS?

    This sleep deprivation due to being the lookout has never come up as a problem in the series. By Oda's own count of the hours they sleep, most of them don't even have a bad night of sleep.
    Since when is sleep deprivation not a problem? Even if it wasn't, a lookout is a very important position which is why the strawhats have to consistently do it.
    Music has never been something that was needed, Sniping is something that has rarely been needed, a swordsman has never been needed.

    I won't continue to argue about roles after this because your counter-arguments are terrible. It seems to me you're only arguing against the lookout position because of Carrot.

    Zoro fits in with the generic "combatant" role we've seen many times throughout the series. Pekoms was a combatant of the Big Mom Pirates. Tamago is also a combatant of that crew. This is also ignoring that Zoro has pretty much taken on the first-mate role on the ship.

    The helmsman was a rotating role, but Jinbe has now been depicted as the absolute best at it. He was given a situation during the 20 chapter sea-chase sequence where his ability to help the ship could stand out. No such moment was given to Carrot, even though she's "apparently" an amazing lookout.
    Zoro is not a generic combatant tho & Zoro is not officially the first mate. I find it funny how you're using a generic combatant as role as an argument for Zoro but according to you, carrot cannot possibly have a role even tho a useless role like that is readily available.
    I'm not sure why you're bringing these two up if you're going to say that they fight differently. Of course they do, since fencing is a completely different type of swordsplay than the three-swords-style. They don't share slight similarities because of the weapon they use.



    Carrot uses electricity through her claws. Nami uses electricity through her clima-tact.
    I brought them up because they perfectly proved my point.

    How are you gonna claim that Zoro & brook don't share slight similarities simply because they use swords while simitaneously claiming that Carrot & Nami share abilities? Carrot is a close range righter who uses her legs, teeth, claws and fists all of which just so happen to produce electricity while Nami is a long range righter that shoots lightning from clouds.

    If Nami & Carrot "shrare abilities" because they use electricity then Luffy, Sanji, Franky, & Zoro "share abilities because they all have fire attacks, but I'm sure you'd conjure up a counter argument. for this because you're not biased against them like you are with carrot even though that's the argument you're making.
    They've had 1000 years to do it. Why hasn't it happened yet?
    We don't know if it has or hasn't happened yet or why. We know very little about the minks.

    Carrot simply uses Electro. Jinbe doesn't simply use Fishman Karate. He is a master of it, and has displayed several techniques that no other Fishman Karate user has been capable of using.
    You're downplaying carrot again. Jinbe uses a martial art that everyone in his race uses. The fact that his techniques are under the Fishman Karate name means that they are all attacks that fishman karate users have the ability to do. There have been other fishman who've done attacks that Jinbe hasn't but that doesn't mean he can't do them. Him being a master of it is irrelevant. Never was it ever said that he is the only master.
    Haki is utilized in different ways depending on the user, for the Straw Hats, at least. Luffy uses it to enhance his punches and other stretching abilities, Zoro uses it to enhance his sword slices, and Sanji uses it to enhance his kicks.
    What they enchance is irrelevant. Haki is still an ability that anybody could use.
    The only real differences could be her rabbit tendencies of going around and biting people
    This is nothing more than an assumption.

    Last edited by YoungWhite; May 21st, 2018 at 04:20 PM.

  9. #24209

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by Galaxy 9000 View Post
    Is there really a need for this?



    If there was a single moment in the sea-chase sequence of 20 chapters where she did the job better than anybody else, I would absolutely believe that Oda is making the lookout role a dedicated role in his story.
    If there was a single mention of the dedicated lookout in the series, I also would be less cynical about this. It doesn't matter if there was one helmsman mentioned before, or 100, because it's about the roles that Oda has established in his story within the pirate crews he has created. And up to this point, crews have rotated who looks out at any given time.

    But all he had her do was take on the "look, there's something behind you", role. Something that unnamed characters have been capable of doing for 900+ chapters.
    The problem is your understanding of the potential role. Lookout is more than just "pointing stuff out". Its being able to scout, accurately report and convey information, and implementation of tactics.

    Carrot assessed the situation with Daifuku's fleet and immediately proceeded to implement tactics to disable said fleet despite the presence of a much stronger enemy (Daifuku).

    Maybe people have issue with the title "Lookout". Perhaps "Scout" is more befitting.

    Scouting is a thing. Multiple crews have them.

    And no, scout isn't the same thing as Robin who sometimes functions as a spy. Robin's role has been limited to small confrontations but its never been indicated that she has any significant understanding of battle tactics or strategy. Unlike Robin, Carrot's been a member of Musketeers, trained under Pedro of the Guardians, and a ruler's aide. Carrot is more than well-qualified for the role of Lookout/Scout, in fact based on the Strawhats backgrounds she's probably the best at it.

    Also scouting is literally what Carrot was doing in her very first scene.

  10. #24210

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by Long John Silvers Rayleigh View Post
    Have we gone 40 pages in a loop with no new information at all to debate her. I'm not trying to tell people what to do but I don't think much will really change for the time being until the reverie ends. Maybe we'll get a new thing with other bounty reveals towards the beginning of Wano. So getting agitated seems kind of pointless since we'll get this sooner anyways. It just feels like there's a creative impasse here that all depends on mostly "she's the best one for now" vs "there'll definintely be a better one later".
    Yeah, pretty much. Every single point has just been discussed to death over and over at this point. To the point where it just loops right back around again and the same discussion happens again.

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  11. #24211

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by Galaxy 9000 View Post
    Yeah, pretty much. Every single point has just been discussed to death over and over at this point. To the point where it just loops right back around again and the same discussion happens again.
    Feel free to frequent other threads.

    Purely coincidence

  12. #24212

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by AvocadoInTheRain View Post
    Feel free to frequent other threads.
    "whoosh". Right over your head.

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  13. #24213

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by Galaxy 9000 View Post
    "whoosh". Right over your head.
    Please, enlighten me as to what your point was, because to me it just looked like you thought the thread had run out of things to discuss and you were bored of it.

    Purely coincidence

  14. #24214
    Just as planned choperman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    I'll be severly upset if Carrot is the last crewmate (I don't think she will be but....) I mean we've had a seven level transforming reindeer , a pervert cyborg, a living skelton with an afro, and a fat shichubkai fishman!! If our last crewmate is just some generic rabbit girl it'll be just a crying shame

    whoever the last crewmember is it has to be someone really special, who stands out above the rest of the characters, someone who meets expectations then breaks them

    and I'm sure Oda will wow us like he always does with the last crewmember

    that's my two cents on the subject

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  15. #24215

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by choperman View Post
    I'll be severly upset if Carrot is the last crewmate (I don't think she will be but....) I mean we've had a seven level transforming reindeer , a pervert cyborg, a living skelton with an afro, and a fat shichubkai fishman!! If our last crewmate is just some generic rabbit girl it'll be just a crying shame

    whoever the last crewmember is it has to be someone really special, who stands out above the rest of the characters, someone who meets expectations then breaks them

    and I'm sure Oda will wow us like he always does with the last crewmember

    that's my two cents on the subject
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  16. #24216

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by choperman View Post
    whoever the last crewmember is it has to be someone really special, who stands out above the rest of the characters, someone who meets expectations then breaks them
    How about the final crewmate being a milestone for how far the strawhats have come? Now that they are world-class veteran pirates instead of rookies, they can take on a wide-eyed apprentice that does not have anywhere near their level of worldliness. One that would ask to join instead of being asked. One who's defining moments are still in the process of happening instead of having happened deep in their past. That would be a better way to cap off the crew than just having the final crew member be another person like all the others only biggerer.

    Actually, now that I think about it. With Jimbei still not on the ship or the colour spreads yet, maybe Oda is delaying Jimbei so that he can have it both ways by making both of them join at the same time.
    Last edited by AvocadoInTheRain; May 21st, 2018 at 08:23 PM.

    Purely coincidence

  17. #24217

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by choperman View Post
    I'll be severly upset if Carrot is the last crewmate (I don't think she will be but....) I mean we've had a seven level transforming reindeer , a pervert cyborg, a living skelton with an afro, and a fat shichubkai fishman!! If our last crewmate is just some generic rabbit girl it'll be just a crying shame

    whoever the last crewmember is it has to be someone really special, who stands out above the rest of the characters, someone who meets expectations then breaks them

    and I'm sure Oda will wow us like he always does with the last crewmember

    that's my two cents on the subject
    I'm sure I'm in the extreme fringe here, while I think Carrot is joining I don't necessarily think she'll be the last nakama.

  18. #24218

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    If Oda intent to have another animal person in the crew, he has so many different type of animals to chose from....
    You have reptiles, arachid,birds, insects etc.
    But another fur based mammal person who comes from an "island of chopper"? That is all he could come up with?
    At least Chopper & Jinbe differ greatly despite being mammal.

    Honestly, even an alien reptilian from the moon seem more interesting as a NN....
    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    So we're going down this rabbit hole again.

  19. #24219
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    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    If the Schibukai system is really abolished during the reverie... what happens to the protection Amazon Lily enjoys due to Hancock's status? Will they need a new leverage against WG and Navy? What if their empress is part of a notorious crew... A crew known to protect their own... A crew that has over 5000 underlings, plus germa, and multiple allies in the new world (at least that's what WG thinks, probably). I mean Navy can't attack Amazon Lily without having a new war in their hands, on top of whatever trouble RA has in stock for them.

    I don't know, just throwing it out there.
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