Mamoru Hosoda and Makoto Shinkai- The not quite Ghibli thread

[Pochipochi]

Man whenever I read about him I just remember how much I think Ghost in the Shell sucks (but I love Patlabor 2??) despite how there has never been anybody more suited to love it than me and I just tune out

I disagree with him anyways so wokka wokka

[Aohige_AP]

I'm not sure what the specific exact spark people are looking for or at exactly what point Miyzaki became the event he is (how many films in a row does it take to reach that status? At what point did Pixar become Pixar?) .

Miyazaki was a genius right off the bat on his first director debut. Future Boy Conan.
He already commanded a clear and unique presence and signature style established.

It was ten years into his animation career, and I would credit a lot of his experience to his teacher, Isao Takahata, one of the greatest animator ever lived.

As for Oshii's comment... it's not surprising.
He does have a point though, Anno doesn't shy away at all from expressing his influences.
But unlike Oshii, Anno was an otaku from the core. His influence as a creator is completely founded in geekdom.

Anyone that gets a chance should read Aoi Honoo, the self-biography manga of Shimamoto Kazuhiko.
Anno's college years are featured prominently, and how Shimamoto reacted to him (they went to the same college)
Seeing Anno and what he and his friends (founding members of Gainax years later) can do made Shimamoto choose the path of manga, since he knew he wouldn't be able to compete with them in the animation field.

[TheCrystalShip]

Satoshi Kon is dead, there is no point in these "genius" discussions anymore.

[tatermoog]

WHY DO I LET YOU PEOPLE DO THIS TO ME?

I was on the verge of a cataclysmic emotional breakdown for the majority of the first seventy minutes of Wolf Children. It's so sad and happy and melancholy and wonderful and...gah. When the family experiences snow for the first time...I could barely deal.

For all three Hosoda movies I've seen, the soundtrack has been a huge part of the experience. I still keep Natsuzora from The Girl Who Leapt through Time on my main playlist.

Spoiler:

I'm a complete sucker for movies where good people are helped by a community of other good people, and this and Summer Wars hit right at the core of that. Preferred the latter of the two movies, but it's pretty rare that I can say that I've seen two movies that I know will have a long-term impact in two days.

As for the discussion on the late direction of the plot...

Spoiler:

I'm not going to defend the diminution of the farmers/community in the plot. It's one thing I do greatly regret about the movie as a whole, since it wouldn't have been that hard to keep them a little involved.

As for Ame and Yuki, I wasn't as devastated by that as some in this thread, though I'm not entirely sure why. I do have a small defense for the director in regards to their direction, though.

Yuki chooses the path of humanity and civilization, but it's not easy at all. She has to go against her instincts, practice a mantra, and consciously decide to follow the path of humanity. She asks her mother to help her fit in, and once she's done that for long enough, she eventually learns to like it and for it to feel natural. It's kind of what civilization is like.

For Ame, it's much more primal. There wasn't any decision involved. Instead, instinct took over and he realized what he was. He doesn't have to work at it--it's who he is, regardless of what his mother might want. I thought the scene where he sat in the doorway staring at the mountain after his mother asked him to stay was particularly telling. As I understand it, he decided to leave without telling her because a.) he [i]had to go[i], and b.) he was never going to convince his mother through words. He solved the problem the way a wolf--which he was--would.

...I'm still not sure I buy most of that, but it's how I'll rationalize it, dammit. As for why he could never come back...well, it's pretty awkward to hang around your mom after a day banging she-wolves and pooping in the shrubbery. Trust me from experience.

So, the topic at hand...nah, he's not the next Miyazaki because he's not really trying to be the next Miyazaki, which is good (and really, I think we've just used that question as a stepping-stone to discuss his work). Still, the most important aspect I think he shares with him is that he's a genius at showing the beauty of everyday life. So much of the first half-hour of this movie borders on banal, but he makes it so...wonderful.

Thanks for alerting me to these movies, all you fine forum-folk. Much appreciated.

[Nobodyman]

WHY DO I LET YOU PEOPLE DO THIS TO ME?

I was on the verge of a cataclysmic emotional breakdown for the majority of the first seventy minutes of Wolf Children. It's so sad and happy and melancholy and wonderful and...gah. When the family experiences snow for the first time...I could barely deal.

What'd we say, huh? What'd we say?

Spoiler:

Yuki chooses the path of humanity and civilization, but it's not easy at all. She has to go against her instincts, practice a mantra, and consciously decide to follow the path of humanity. She asks her mother to help her fit in, and once she's done that for long enough, she eventually learns to like it and for it to feel natural. It's kind of what civilization is like.

Spoiler:

The thing is, I felt that Yuki's story arc with Shouhei was really more about her coming to terms with both her human and wolf side. Though she will mostly stay human, I think she learned not to be ashamed her wolf side and that there are people who will accept her for who she is. This is why I much prefer Yuki's story over Ame's, the latter whom appears to have pretty much forsaken his human side by the movie's end.

Thanks for alerting me to these movies, all you fine forum-folk. Much appreciated.

No problem ;)

Now, as for dear Oshii. I must admit I haven't seen as much of his work as I should (i.e. I haven't really seen any of his work). I sort of watched Ghost in the Shell at a friends house about 10 years ago, but I wasn't really paying attention, so...

In any case, he sounds like an overly critical jerk.......................I like him.

[Aohige_AP]

Well, to be fair, Miyazaki is a complete douchebag too when it comes to harsh criticism.

He pretty much hates the anime otakus.

[tatermoog]

And apparently his own son.

[Nobodyman]

Well, to be fair, Miyazaki is a complete douchebag too when it comes to harsh criticism.

Yeah, I heard about that. And to be fair it really is a tough industry.

He pretty much hates the anime otakus.

Well, that's understandable.

And apparently his own son.

Again, understandable.

[Aohige_AP]

And apparently his own son.

That is entirely justified.


BTW, I have no problem with the likes of Tomino, Miyazaki, and Oshii being stuckup assholes. They have tons of shit to back their position.

Guys like Egawa Tatsuya can burn in hell.

[Pochipochi]

I can't imagine hating Tomino

[Greg]

Ah, Miyazaki. Japan's own Kanye West.

The genius mind of a generation that staunchly opposes other countrys' foreign policies enough to boycott their award ceremonies while he murders his coworkers with secondhand smoke.

Summer Wars. That was the movie that despite looking groovy, ended exactly as it began, right?

[Aohige_AP]

It's the movie that turned many men into tanned shota loving bisexuals.

[Robby]

Guys like Egawa Tatsuya can burn in hell.

But, but... Goldenboy!

It's...

uhm... Goldenboy.

Summer Wars. That was the movie that despite looking groovy, ended exactly as it began, right?

Not really. Girl Who Leapt Through Time kinda does though I think.

[Greg]

I'm pretty sure it is. That's the one that starts with an insecure and immature computer nerd being sucked into dealing with a strong-willed independent girl's family and at the end he's an insecure and immature computer nerd that has to be yelled at to input computer commands and she's still a strong-willed independent girl.

No?

Look, no hate for Mams. Guy is a genius when it comes to motion and OP Movie 6 is still the best OP movie experience, period. But that movie? Wouldn't have half the acclaim if it told exactly the same tale without the computer fluff.

[Takaho]

Probably would have enjoyed Summer Wars a lot more if I hadn't already seen Hosoda do it in the first Digimon movie.

[Hiroy]

Look, no hate for Mams. Guy is a genius when it comes to motion and OP Movie 6 is still the best OP movie experience, period.

I thought I was crazy for being the only one that thinks this. Maybe I am crazy. All hail for being crazy.

Spoiler:

Aside from the wonderful background visuals, the beautiful animated segments during the games, and the use of the cast(not great, but good for the time limit of a film), the whole overaching theme and mystery behind the main antagonist is just memorable to a point it sticks with me. And I'm not talking about Baron. He was just victim. Lily Carnation was real villain for me. I thought the concept was very well done, and fitting for a fantasy pirate adventure that leaves behind more questions than answers. I watched it agian with my sis a few weeks ago. Still good!

I crave another movie with a story that focuses on a theme like this. So I'm curious about checking his other movies. I think I was too young to appricate the Digimon movie, because it felt a little different. But I'm curious to check out Summer Wars and TGtltT. My sister kept suggesting the movies to me, and I never found the time to sit through them.

[tatermoog]

I'm pretty sure it is. That's the one that starts with an insecure and immature computer nerd being sucked into dealing with a strong-willed independent girl's family and at the end he's an insecure and immature computer nerd that has to be yelled at to input computer commands and she's still a strong-willed independent girl.

No?

Actually no.

He's lacks self-confidence for the first half of the movie, sure--he admits as much to the grandmother--but when the rest of the family is busy with other things, he's the one that convinces them that they need to fight back and comes up with the original plan. When that original plan fails, he's the one that rallies the troops and declares that they haven't lost yet. Then he comes up with a backup plan centered on games. Then, when it seems like the house is going to be destroyed, he's the one that decides to stay while the rest of the family evacuates. And, at the very end, he confesses his love for the girl, though under some duress.

I can understand not liking the movie, but not sure I can see the cyclical argument. By the end, he's much more confident--though not completely changed, as he shouldn't be--and as importantly, he's discovered the joys of being part of a larger family/community. As mentioned earlier, Girl Who Walked Through Time is probably more cyclical, though the main character in that has changed pretty substantially by the end as well.

But, hey, we mostly agree on Movie 6, so at least we have that. ;)

[Greg]

Actually no.

Actually, yes.

He needs to be screamed at to push a button in a video game.

My hero, Shinji Clone #28320

[tatermoog]

Actually, yes.

He needs to be screamed at to push a button in a video game.

My hero, Shinji Clone #28320

...when? I just watched the ending of that twice in the past day.There's a part where he's setting up to change the GPS Coordinates and he freezes briefly after seeing a new password, but he's the one who had just pushed past the evacuating family to even give it a shot.

I'm fine with a disagreement of opinions, but...I legitimately don't understand where you're coming from in this. I listed everything he does in the second half of the movie. I mean, even if he is still a little lacking in self-confidence, can't we at least agree he's not ending up at Square One?

[Robby]

Look, no hate for Mams. Guy is a genius when it comes to motion and OP Movie 6 is still the best OP movie experience, period.

OP6 is my favorite. I loved the visuals on that one long before knowing who the director was.

(Well, not counting the Chopper movie. Which doesn't count cause its just the manga story basically.)

But that movie? Wouldn't have half the acclaim if it told exactly the same tale without the computer fluff.

Well at that point, it would be half the running time, have a different plot in the second half, and presumably something else would have fleshed out the gaping 45 minute-hour hole and been used to be visually interesting, so no, it wouldn't be exactly the same at all. That's not taking out a minor random 5 minute sequence, that's half the movie.

Its like saying Porco Rosso wouldn't have the same acclaim if they left out the stuff with the airplanes.