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Thread: Mamoru Hosoda and Makoto Shinkai- The not quite Ghibli thread

  1. #101

    Default Re: Mamoru Hosoda and Makoto Shinkai- The not quite Ghibli thread

    After a couple of films, I'm starting to think Hosoda has a particular idea of what a proper japanese woman should be, and he has characters that reflect that. Like Yuki in Wolf Children started out as a feral wild child, then she grew hup, her hair darkened, and she became a proper japanese girl interested in makeup and boys and such. Natsuki in SUmmer Wars was also a pretty straightforward blank slate who didn't have much interesting going on aside from her secret crush on Kenji... it was her family and the game world that was interesting.

    In BatB,
    Spoiler:
    I was fine with the kid growing up and returning to the normal world and finding a normal girl as a contrast to his crazy martial artist life... that fits the nature of the story and goes back to Tarzan or Jungle Book and it's totally fine... but it is a shame that it was so similar to the first 10 minutes of Wolf Children.. and it probably shouldn't have been the middle of the movie. But it was mostly the stuff with the rival that turned into a whale that was just...what? Neat visuals but... what?


    As he does more films it'll be easier to tell where his strengths, weaknesses, characters, and interests lie...and some films are going to be weaker or stronger than others... and that's fine and true of any director. Still interested to see what he does next.

  2. #102
    The villain eternal. Kylor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mamoru Hosoda and Makoto Shinkai- The not quite Ghibli thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Spoiler:
    But it was mostly the stuff with the rival that turned into a whale that was just...what? Neat visuals but... what?
    Spoiler:
    It's worth remembering that Ichirohiko doesn't just randomly turns into a whale, but it was distinctly and directly inspired by Moby Dick (whether Ichirohiko was aware of it or not.) Understanding the book is actually kind of vital to understanding the movie, in that sense. A recurring issue for Ren through the movie is his conflict with his own inner "beast" which takes on a physical manifestation, that he has to make peace with in order to earn his ending. When Ichirohiko is consumed by that very same nature, he's literally becoming his own "white whale," which in his case is his budding resentment for Ren. So it's a visual metaphor for another literary character who became a monster due to his inability to let go of his hatred. Silly as hell? Yes, but it's thematically appropriate.


    Also, while your interpretation of Kaede certainly isn't wrong, I think it's more worthwhile to view her in the context of the movie being about Ren's relationship with his various "teachers." She's meant to contrast with Kumatetsu, and her teaching Ren to read (again, in more than one sense) represents his finding a balance between the human and beast sides of himself. So she's still mostly meant as a means for Ren to develop, just maybe in a different way than how you saw it.

  3. #103

    Default Re: Mamoru Hosoda and Makoto Shinkai- The not quite Ghibli thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylor View Post
    [spoiler]It's worth remembering that Ichirohiko doesn't just randomly turns into a whale, but it was distinctly and directly inspired by Moby Dick (whether Ichirohiko was aware of it or not.) Understanding the book is actually kind of vital to understanding the movie, in that sense. A recurring issue for Ren through the movie is his conflict with his own inner "beast" which takes on a physical manifestation, it.
    That's a very fair synopsis, and I get it. My main issue is just...why did that become the lynchpin of the whole movie? Besides the obvious problem--
    Spoiler:
    Ichirohiko is barely present in the movie beforehand and not developed at all
    --I had more problems with the thematic diversity of the movie than I did the narrative diversity. I would have happily had the movie completely excise the darkness-in-the-heart storyline--at least to the extent it pursued it at the end--and still enjoyed a general coming-of-age story, with some perspectives on learning and growing. Just seemed like it was an entirely different thread.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrano View Post
    Really disliked the character of Kaede in Boy and the Beast.She was a walking cliche and possibly the least interesting character in all of Hosoda Mamoru's films.
    She was a little on-the-nose. Tended to explain to the audience what the movie was already theoretically showing.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    After a couple of films, I'm starting to think Hosoda has a particular idea of what a proper japanese woman should be, and he has characters that reflect that. Like Yuki in Wolf Children started out as a feral wild child, then she grew hup, her hair darkened, and she became a proper japanese girl interested in makeup and boys and such. Natsuki in SUmmer Wars was also a pretty straightforward blank slate who didn't have much interesting going on aside from her secret crush on Kenji... it was her family and the game world that was interesting.
    Besides thinking this is a small disservice to Natsuki (but I love that movie so), I'm thinking Makoto was pretty different in Girl Who Leapt through Time as well. Been a long time, but think she stayed pretty independent throughout.
    As he does more films it'll be easier to tell where his strengths, weaknesses, characters, and interests lie...and some films are going to be weaker or stronger than others... and that's fine and true of any director. Still interested to see what he does next.
    Yeah, if this is one of his weak films, well, please keep making films.
    Hang in there, Kierkegaard.

  4. #104

    Default Re: Mamoru Hosoda and Makoto Shinkai- The not quite Ghibli thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tatermoog View Post
    [/spoiler]--I had more problems with the thematic diversity of the movie than I did the narrative diversity. I would have happily had the movie completely excise the darkness-in-the-heart storyline--at least to the extent it pursued it at the end--and still enjoyed a general coming-of-age story, with some perspectives on learning and growing. Just seemed like it was an entirely different thread.
    Yeah. Just the coming of age stuff and then finding his place in the world woulda been great, the revenge stuff really felt superfluous. The slice of life stuff is really the director's strength.


    Besides thinking this is a small disservice to Natsuki (but I love that movie so), I'm thinking Makoto was pretty different in Girl Who Leapt through Time as well. Been a long time, but think she stayed pretty independent throughout.Yeah, if this is one of his weak films, well, please keep making films.
    Speaking in broad terms on Natsuki.... who to be fair has to share the movie with like 40 other people.

    I left out GWLTT intentionally, since
    a) she was the main, and almost only, character in that movie
    b)that's an established franchise with many itterations, movies and tv series and manga going back decades to an original novel. I haven't seen any of the others, and the director added his own touches, obviously, but its not wholecloth his creation like the other three movies.

    Same reason I don't mention One Piece movie 6 or Digimon, though those certainly bear some of his marks too. (You don't see any of him in his dragonball or galaxy express or yu yu hakusho work, but he was mostly just an animator on that stuff.)

  5. #105

    Default Re: Mamoru Hosoda and Makoto Shinkai- The not quite Ghibli thread


    The trailer was out for months but I've recently found out about Makoto Shinkai's new film coming up very soon.
    I'll make sure to have tissues near me when I watch this.

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  6. #106

    Default Re: Mamoru Hosoda and Makoto Shinkai- The not quite Ghibli thread

    Looks like Shinkai Makoto hit an amazing home run this time. Sorry, HOME RUN.
    It is rated #1 in Myanimelist (where people are usually very stingy on score - just my opinion).
    Just from googling it, I learn that it has outgrossed One Piece Film Gold and has broken the record to become the first none Ghibli film to gross 10 billion yen (according to IMDb trivia).

    Amazing. Shinkai Makoto has been a mixed bag for me until now but after Garden of Words I have been looking forward to this.
    Now I can't wait.

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  7. #107

    Default Re: Mamoru Hosoda and Makoto Shinkai- The not quite Ghibli thread

    http://variety.com/2017/film/global/...ve-1202429514/

    Hosoda's next film will be “Mirai”,

    which follows a 4-year old boy who is struggling to cope with the arrival of a little sister in the family, until things turn magical. A mysterious garden in the backyard of the boy’s home becomes a gateway allowing the child to travel in time and encounter his mother as a little girl, his great-grandfather as a young man and his sister has a grown woman. These fantasy-filled adventures allow the child to change his perspective and help him become the big brother he was meant to be.
    It is "expected to be completed" in May 2018.

    So far away. And then it'll take forever to get to dvd and then be subtitled...

  8. #108
    The Tetsuo Ishimaru of AP Gizmo's Avatar
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    Default Your Name “Kimi no Na Wa” live action film

    https://www.screendaily.com/news/par...122748.article

    Ugh...enjoy the film. Do not need this to be live action. Plus the movie kinda works within Japanese culture only. Dunno if it’d work if Westernized.
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  9. #109

    Default Re: Mamoru Hosoda and Makoto Shinkai- The not quite Ghibli thread

    Without the Japanese elements is just a weird love story.

    Do these cash grabs work? I mean call it "inspired" by it and give your own spin on it.
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  10. #110

    Default Re: Mamoru Hosoda and Makoto Shinkai- The not quite Ghibli thread

    I can't imagine an american studio having a story where a boy ends up in a girl's body and it having any measure of decency or restraint.

  11. #111

    Default Re: Mamoru Hosoda and Makoto Shinkai- The not quite Ghibli thread

    The question is; who in the right mind want to watch this forgettable garbage.

  12. #112

    Default Re: Mamoru Hosoda and Makoto Shinkai- The not quite Ghibli thread

    No one does but producers look at "highest grossing anime film of all time" and want in on that. Regardless of if its a good idea or not.

  13. #113

    Default Re: Mamoru Hosoda and Makoto Shinkai- The not quite Ghibli thread

    "Mr. Abrams and his team have captivated audiences in their masterful reinvention of known properties"


  14. #114

    Default Re: Mamoru Hosoda and Makoto Shinkai- The not quite Ghibli thread

    Makes me wonder why they never tried to do that to Miyazaki movies, considering their place in highest grossing anime movie list before Your Name.

  15. #115

    Default Re: Mamoru Hosoda and Makoto Shinkai- The not quite Ghibli thread

    Sooooo, I just watched Your Name and Garden of Words. Loved the first, subject matter of the second was a little...iffy.

    Know there's probably a lot of trickeration with his animation, but damned if it's not the most gorgeous thing.

  16. #116

    Default Re: Mamoru Hosoda and Makoto Shinkai- The not quite Ghibli thread

    Sorry for the unrequested update, but man, can't get Your Name out of my head. In the past decade, think only How to Train Your Dragon and Wolf Children got under my skin the way this movie did. But in that pleasant way, where I'll think of a scene while in the middle of something at work and smile.

    mmmmmm

    It's nice when good things are good.
    Hang in there, Kierkegaard.

  17. #117

    Default Re: Mamoru Hosoda and Makoto Shinkai- The not quite Ghibli thread

    What was it about Your Name that got to you? I thought it was fine but it didn't do much for me.

    Certainly not in the league of those other two films which we've generally agreed on for similar reasons.

  18. #118

    Default Re: Mamoru Hosoda and Makoto Shinkai- The not quite Ghibli thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    What was it about Your Name that got to you? I thought it was fine but it didn't do much for me.

    Certainly not in the league of those other two films which we've generally agreed on for similar reasons.
    First, let me clarify one thing: this isn't HTTYD, which I would argue is a near-perfect and unfortunately overlooked film and get my feelings quite hurt when people disagree. It's much closer to Wolf Children, which hits a lot of emotional high notes but I can admit has numerous narrative faults.

    As for Your Name, without getting into the plot itself, a few things that got me:

    -I like beauty for beauty's sake, and good scott, does this movie have it. I audibly gasped a few times, like when they visit the shrine. There are so many things that have so much more detail than they rightly needed to have, and some sequences--the trip through Mitsuha's past, for example--are wonderfully imaginative in a way I really admired.

    -I don't know if there is a single thing I love in a movie or game more than a soundtrack that syncs to an emotional or dramatic moment in a movie--like, say, Test Drive in HTTYD, or the Asteroid Belt in Empire Strikes Back--and this movie does that really, really well. In fact, I found out after doing some research that Shinkai worked with Radwimps (ha!) to the point that parts of the movie were changed to better match the soundtrack. This is a very specific thing to me, but it'll elevate a middling movie to another level in and of itself. [counterpoint: I didn't like Baby Driver. Huh.]

    -I've got enough cynicism in my life, I like my movies to not be the same. This one succeeded.

    -
    Spoiler:
    I'm always a sucker for an unexpected happy ending.


    Look, admittedly, this was all pretty ephemeral, but hey, still processing. Just rare for me when I go in with low expectations and end up loving something to this degree, so I'm going to ride this feeling while I've got it.

  19. #119

    Default Re: Mamoru Hosoda and Makoto Shinkai- The not quite Ghibli thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tatermoog View Post
    Look, admittedly, this was all pretty ephemeral, but hey, still processing. Just rare for me when I go in with low expectations and end up loving something to this degree, so I'm going to ride this feeling while I've got it.
    Nothing wrong with that! Glad you enjoyed it, even if it didn't hit for me.

  20. #120

    Default Re: Mamoru Hosoda and Makoto Shinkai- The not quite Ghibli thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tatermoog View Post
    -I like beauty for beauty's sake, and good scott, does this movie have it. I audibly gasped a few times, like when they visit the shrine. There are so many things that have so much more detail than they rightly needed to have, and some sequences--the trip through Mitsuha's past, for example--are wonderfully imaginative in a way I really admired.
    You found that to be amazing? I mean as far as animation, and individual scenes goes, Your Name was as generic as you can get. Pull up any generic recent anime with high production value, and they would be the same, if not better.

    Nothing about this movie's direction sticks out. Designs are generic. Music is generic. Animation is super-pretty, but extremely shallow, and lacking any real stand out moments. Even the shots are fairly generic.

    I've got enough cynicism in my life, I like my movies to not be the same. This one succeeded.
    Which is fine, and all, but I don't think that in itself really reflects the quality of the movie.

    I don't want to bring down your opinion, but I don't really get why the movie really sticks out when you can pull up any modern anime with the same cliches, and tropes, and get the exact same thing as you are describing here.

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