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Thread: Kingdom

  1. #3381
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Jan 2014
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    Croatia

    Default Re: Kingdom

    Too busy to be more active.

    Btw, agree with phoenix more or less. Where was Shin's instinct when he almost got himself killed by chasing Riboku? Couple of days ago? Hara did a really crappy job with, how should I say, the maturation of Shin's strategic instincts.

    And the whole separation into 2 general types doesn't sit that well with me. Not the fact that they exist, but that everyone is acknowledging the existence of the 2 types as if they are a perk or an attribute in a video game. Strategist gets +10 to deployment and formations and Instinctual gets +10 to mid battle maneuvers and critical rate? It looks a little silly.

    Other than that, it makes at least some sense. A strategist should be better at preparing for the fight and preparing maneuvers for many different scenarios. If something they didn't expect happens, there's a problem. That's where the instinctual should excel at, by being a more hands on person and knowing how to get out of a pinch and turn it into an advantage.

    In general, this is what we're seeing here, just overemphasized and maybe a little dumbed down. Perhaps Hara is doing it for the younger readership, but he's not doing the manga any favors with it. That's my take on it, anyways.

    It's fun to read, though. And I hope we don't skip scenes next chapter.
    Last edited by Razh; January 31st, 2018 at 12:11 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Trying to understand Bleach is like trying to drink a bottle of bleach.

    It makes no sense and you'll be dead before you're finished.

  2. #3382

    Default Re: Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    Btw, agree with phoenix more or less. Where was Shin's instinct when he almost got himself killed by chasing Riboku? Couple of days ago? Hara did a really crappy job with, how should I say, the maturation of Shin's strategic instincts.
    I didn't read that scene like that at all. In no way did Shin seemed to have been caught in Riboku's ambush. He was just trying to squeeze as much of a chase as he could. This has been brewing since the coalition war. I am okay with Shin being unable to understand what Ou Sen is trying to accomplish. Nor the way he is doing it. He is not there yet. I found that this chapter was perfect because we saw him doing hit and misses, not having an 100% turn, he was failing most of the battle having a couple of good hits here and there.

    And the whole separation into 2 general types doesn't sit that well with me. Not the fact that they exist, but that everyone is acknowledging the existence of the 2 types as if they are a perk or an attribute in a video game. Strategist gets +10 to deployment and formations and Instinctual gets +10 to mid battle maneuvers and critical rate? It looks a little silly.
    With this I agree completely. It seems to break the fourth wall to make sure we understand that there is a separation. A bit of a cheap way of not having to really show it and just saying it.

    ---

    I always try to respond fully, but right now I cannot do it without being a complete En-san's fanboy.
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  3. #3383

    Default Re: Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by K. Kira XXIII View Post
    I didn't read that scene like that at all. In no way did Shin seemed to have been caught in Riboku's ambush. He was just trying to squeeze as much of a chase as he could. This has been brewing since the coalition war. I am okay with Shin being unable to understand what Ou Sen is trying to accomplish. Nor the way he is doing it. He is not there yet. I found that this chapter was perfect because we saw him doing hit and misses, not having an 100% turn, he was failing most of the battle having a couple of good hits here and there.



    With this I agree completely. It seems to break the fourth wall to make sure we understand that there is a separation. A bit of a cheap way of not having to really show it and just saying it.

    ---

    I always try to respond fully, but right now I cannot do it without being a complete En-san's fanboy.
    Does en-san have a different haircut in the chapter, it seemed longer but that might have been me flyong through it
    Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:
    So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?
    H x H Chimera Ant Arc / OP Manga Spoiler
    Spoiler:



  4. #3384

    Default Re: Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    Too busy to be more active.

    Btw, agree with phoenix more or less. Where was Shin's instinct when he almost got himself killed by chasing Riboku? Couple of days ago? Hara did a really crappy job with, how should I say, the maturation of Shin's strategic instincts.

    And the whole separation into 2 general types doesn't sit that well with me. Not the fact that they exist, but that everyone is acknowledging the existence of the 2 types as if they are a perk or an attribute in a video game. Strategist gets +10 to deployment and formations and Instinctual gets +10 to mid battle maneuvers and critical rate? It looks a little silly.

    Other than that, it makes at least some sense. A strategist should be better at preparing for the fight and preparing maneuvers for many different scenarios. If something they didn't expect happens, there's a problem. That's where the instinctual should excel at, by being a more hands on person and knowing how to get out of a pinch and turn it into an advantage.

    In general, this is what we're seeing here, just overemphasized and maybe a little dumbed down. Perhaps Hara is doing it for the younger readership, but he's not doing the manga any favors with it. That's my take on it, anyways.

    It's fun to read, though. And I hope we don't skip scenes next chapter.
    Thx for this post, articulated what i wanted to say pretty much.
    This entire instinctual vs strategic is way too cartoonish and caricaturic for the rest of the manga.

  5. #3385

    Default Re: Kingdom

    Execution probably could've been better, yeah, but, well, I'm glad we're finally getting a moment where Shin actually takes full command of his troops when he's the goddamn leader

  6. #3386

    Default Re: Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Long John Silvers Rayleigh View Post
    Does en-san have a different haircut in the chapter, it seemed longer but that might have been me flyong through it
    You mean General En-san, the fire starter, river crosser, what is but a mere Zhao cavalry to his sense of duty!...okay I am not ready yet.
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  7. #3387
    Whirlwind of Cabbages Yobiyopi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Italy

    Default Re: Kingdom

    I wonder if it will come into play for Ka Ryo Ten when dealing with a gigabrain strategist from Chu where she will win with instinct.

  8. #3388

    Default Re: Kingdom

    Too bad, but understandable that next week we have a break. Otherwise, I really enjoyed the chapter. As Razh said, the entire instinct vs strategic thing is overplayed and is getting too much of a focus. It was fine when it was a layman's terms. But now everyone is using and recognizing what type of strategist is commanding the troops. It is a bit ridiculous. Can't the strategist just be shitty? Or, just making a couple of bad moves before getting the hang of it.

    I just cannot help but giggle with the author's sense of humor. I wonder what type of story would he tell if the historical aspect of Kingdom was not present. A couple of chapters ago Bihei was the only one that his teeth were shown instead of his face. This chapter:

    Hidden:


    Afterwards, Bihei is on the floor pretending to be dead, how Shin was getting a couple of good hits, but failing otherwise getting frustrated about the reports. Ignoring Bihei's squad altogether, his men complaining he was spiting on them, I cannot wait for him to start his next campaign as general. Everyone is so fired up, the rookies being shocked that what was happening was only a warm up. Naki doing great things. Not breaking a sweat.

    But a separate paragraph had to be made for the man of the hour, the bringer of flames, the conqueror of rivers, the flexing god En-san. Those eyes did not betray my expectations. What a journey, from a guy that was supposed to just drop Shin off at Ou Ki's palace.

    If the chapter had ended with: Gyou'Un-kun! Kukuku. I died.
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    Try out my first game! All feedback is welcome, enjoy and thanks. Heroine: Kiku
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  9. #3389

    Default Re: Kingdom

    Good showing of the whole Unit. En is the best, but also Naki did great...

    Gyouun not just did good because of his Instinct, he can use his isntinct so well against Strategist because he was trained by Rhinshojou wo was one himself...

  10. #3390

    Default Re: Kingdom

    Hidden:
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamiel View Post
    Try out my first game! All feedback is welcome, enjoy and thanks. Heroine: Kiku
    Hidden:

  11. #3391

    Default Re: Kingdom

    I mean he isn't entirely wrong
    Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:
    So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?
    H x H Chimera Ant Arc / OP Manga Spoiler
    Spoiler:



  12. #3392

    Default Re: Kingdom

    Man this feels empty. Interchangeable badass with incredible skills spouts nonsense and gets Shin riled up.
    Just switch to Ousen.

  13. #3393

    Default Re: Kingdom

    The Zhao generals have been quite wordy, first was Banana-ji, now Gyou-Un, I am just glad Shin told him to go home if he is going to be dreaming like that.
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    Try out my first game! All feedback is welcome, enjoy and thanks. Heroine: Kiku
    Hidden:

  14. #3394

    Default Re: Kingdom

    They could talk if there is some kind of build-up of it that stimulates an investment by the audience. Doing it like this takes any kind of merit or depth out of it.
    And itīs kind of silly how easily Shin gets riled up because of some stupid statement of a stranger.

    Man itīs such a pity. The warring states as the focus has so much potential as a world but the author does the same mistake over and over again.

  15. #3395

    Default Re: Kingdom

    I agree with your first sentence, the wordy talks seem merely but rambles of old men. With Banana-ji, it was all for Ou Hon to declare his loyalty to the king. This time around, it is for Shin's...anger? Even though both speeches informed us a bit more of the environment and goals of the two Zhao generals, as you said, it feels like it could have more meaning to it.

    About Shin getting riled up, I would disagree. Mainly because this is barely a stranger. At least that is what I took from Shin. Shin knows his adversary's name, also about whom he served. When they first met, it seemed like Shin wanted to have some sort of talk, but Gyou-un interrupted him. I think Shin understands how important his opponent is. The taunting cannot be empty, because Gyou-un has actually been part of the "Great Generals era" and we can see that he holds those times dear. I got invested in that scene where he tells Shin that he only had to stretch his arms to receive it. After everything that has happened, not only when he received the glaive, but everything he has went through until this campaign to finally wield it. I think it would be infuriating too.
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    Try out my first game! All feedback is welcome, enjoy and thanks. Heroine: Kiku
    Hidden:

  16. #3396

    Default Re: Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by K. Kira XXIII View Post
    I agree with your first sentence, the wordy talks seem merely but rambles of old men. With Banana-ji, it was all for Ou Hon to declare his loyalty to the king. This time around, it is for Shin's...anger? Even though both speeches informed us a bit more of the environment and goals of the two Zhao generals, as you said, it feels like it could have more meaning to it.

    About Shin getting riled up, I would disagree. Mainly because this is barely a stranger. At least that is what I took from Shin. Shin knows his adversary's name, also about whom he served. When they first met, it seemed like Shin wanted to have some sort of talk, but Gyou-un interrupted him. I think Shin understands how important his opponent is. The taunting cannot be empty, because Gyou-un has actually been part of the "Great Generals era" and we can see that he holds those times dear. I got invested in that scene where he tells Shin that he only had to stretch his arms to receive it. After everything that has happened, not only when he received the glaive, but everything he has went through until this campaign to finally wield it. I think it would be infuriating too.
    We are talking about two different things though. I am not doubting Gyou-unīs standing as a great general of the past, thus he represents a certain significance and relevance, i am doubting Shin getting riled up by insults about personal things. Gyou-unīs words should have no relevance since itīs a personal thing between Ouki and him and he knows why he inherited it, or at least he should know, so ultimately itīs Shinīs immaturity thatīs the problem.

  17. #3397

    Default Re: Kingdom

    Oh I understand better, but isn't that a bit "cold" from someone as explosive as Shin? We know, and Shin should know better than to take Gyou-un's words to heart, but at the same time, I have had overreactions to people's comments on things happening in my life, when they know no better. Even if nowadays I have learned to take a step back breath and ignore. Sometimes, it still affects you. It is hard to go against your instinctual responses.

    What I find that connects his taunting with Shin's feelings is Gyou-un's relevance. He has probably experienced the ~weight~ that Ou Ki had as a general and wielding his glaive. So his words are half truths, half ignorance. Truth in terms of Shin not fulfilling the position as a holder of such weapon as of yet. Lies, because he oversimplifies Shin's struggles. That's why I find perfect that Shin thinks: Don't talk as if you know anything. His outburst is more internal than him shouting and responding back. Someone came and questioned his position, Shin retaliated by showing why he is where he is.
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    Try out my first game! All feedback is welcome, enjoy and thanks. Heroine: Kiku
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  18. #3398

  19. #3399

    Default Re: Kingdom

    Kyokai is about to wreck shit again with that God Breath thing.

    Spoiler:

  20. #3400

    Default Re: Kingdom

    pretty exited for whats gonna come up.

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