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Thread: The Reverie Discussion Thread

  1. #841
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    Default Re: The Reverie Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    Oh. If they still exist.

    ...I doubt Oda cares that much to reveal it outside of an SBS. But who knows, maybe the new CP9 will get a cameo to confirm their existence after Lucci and the gang was hunted down/promoted. Not anything more though. I agree that they might still exist though. They sort of have to if they were that essential pre-timeskip. Especially if Nero was being groomed to become a new member and if CP9 members are trained since childhood.


    I was just saying that I can't see the World Government going as far as to issue a Buster Call on Alabasta this early in the story because of how unprotected it would currently be. I know you weren't saying that the World Government will DEFINITELY issue a Buster Call, I was only talking about IF they did something like that. As a point to deduce that something else must happen. Which you and I agree on. I am sorry for the confusion.
    Ah, gotcha. Thanks for helping me understand what you meant there.

    There are plenty of things worth "overthinking" about in this series. Just not anything related to strength or power levels. Oda has not and will never care about that. He will just do whatever looks fun and cool to him while following certain patterns. XD
    For sure. What the heck were they putting in Croc's prison food that made him able to endure getting run over by Jozu? XD

    Quote Originally Posted by LightningAce View Post
    I doubt they know about the Poneglyph. its remained hidden in that tomb for 800 years, and on top of that, it is buried under all that stuff after the fight between Crocodile and Luffy
    Agreed, I was just talking hypothetically there. Like, if they knew/learned about it, not that they did/would.

    Quote Originally Posted by fuzi11 View Post
    They don't need to send CP9 specifically, they have CP0 to 9, so 10 groups in general.
    But I agree, they don't need to nuke Alabasta as a whole, they could assassinate the royal family and declare the survivors as traitors, making it impossible for Vivi to return home, resulting in her becoming a fugitive. And where can she hide? On the Thousand Sunny maybe.
    Well, I mentioned CP9 specifically because it was pretty well established back in Waters 7 that they were the "secret" Ciper Pol with the main duty of killing regular people/non-criminals the WG didn't like in a way that couldn't be traced back to them. CP0 is probably skilled enough to do the same, though.

    I don't think anything really bad is going to happen to Alabasta during or right after the Reverie, since the SHs would still be in the middle of the New World and unable to do anything when it happens. Unless other countries end up willing to help out Alabasta during the Reverie, they have no hope of resisting a WG attack. I don't see the likes of Pell being able to hold off more than a single Vice Admiral at best (unless said VA uses the bomb-bomb fruit) and nothing's stopping them from sending one of one of the Admirals to spend an afternoon razing the entire place. I mean, Alabasta could get destroyed/occupied by marines, but that strikes me as too much of a downer for Oda to do unless it was setting up something else (and we already went through a saving Alabasta arc).

  2. #842

    Default Re: The Reverie Discussion Thread

    I would hope that Oda wouldn't feel constraint of having tragedies starting happening because the Straw Hats cannot intervene.
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  3. #843
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    Default Re: The Reverie Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by K. Kira XXIII View Post
    I would hope that Oda wouldn't feel constraint of having tragedies starting happening because the Straw Hats cannot intervene.
    I didn't mean that having the SHs be away would make it impossible for it to happen. I guess I was just thinking of them saving it again for the main possible reason for something to happen to Alabasta, since I can't think of what reason a tragedy like that would server otherwise except for only drama, and that drama would be put in the background for quite a while unless we took a break from the main cast. Which hasn't happened before unless you count Luffy's alone time leading up to the war, but in this scenario Luffy would be absent too. Though, there likely is a reason that I just can't think of for it to happen.

  4. #844

    Default Re: The Reverie Discussion Thread

    If it is the bridge to make the revolutionaries come forward then that should be okay. Blackbeard stormed the revolutionary army and that did not lead to some sort of rescue mission for them from the Straw Hats.

    It really hinges on what is the outcome of the Reverie and what tone it will set for story as we move forward.
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  5. #845
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Reverie Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by K. Kira XXIII View Post
    If it is the bridge to make the revolutionaries come forward. Blackbeard stormed the revolutionary army and that did not lead to some sort of rescue mission for them from the Straw Hats.
    That's only because none of the Revolutionaries (or at least the big names we know) probably got defeated. They likely just retreated and only suffered the collateral damage of losing a base. You don't have a major character defeat or death happen off-panel when we don't even know what everybody's powers are or what their relationship is like.

    What happened there is different from the likes of Ace versus Blackbeard, Aokiji versus Akainu, and the Payback War that starred characters we were already mostly acquainted with in-depth and had their conflicts built-up beyond the end of the last arc.
    Last edited by Count Mario; November 18th, 2017 at 02:37 PM.

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  6. #846

    Default Re: The Reverie Discussion Thread

    I have no clue what you are talking about Count.
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  7. #847
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    Quote Originally Posted by K. Kira XXIII View Post
    I have no clue what you are talking about Count.
    I don't what is confusing about my post at all, but okay. Let me break it down by steps.

    Do you think that the battle of Blackbeard versus Ace could have been completely off-paneled? I know the end result was off-paneled, but I mean the entire meeting/battle.

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  8. #848

    Default Re: The Reverie Discussion Thread

    Mmm, again not sure what you are trying to get at, and what does that have to do with what I posted above.
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  9. #849
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    Default Re: The Reverie Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by K. Kira XXIII View Post
    Mmm, again not sure what you are trying to get at, and what does that have to do with what I posted above.
    I was talking about how you said that Blackbeard raiding Baltigo didn't result in a rescue mission with the Straw Hats. And you were talking earlier to No Swords about fearing that Oda wouldn't have any tragedies happen if the Straw Hats can't be present. I was responding by saying that it's more complicated than that.

    Oda would never write a rescue arc with the Revolutionaries like that because he wouldn't have the Revolutionaries suffer any major defeats in battle aside from probably retreating. And I was connecting that to my opinion on how and why Oda off-panels certain fights/events for particular reasons, and how we haven't seen enough from the Revolutionaries to allow them to have a major defeat in battle yet.

    Basically, he is not going to have a character suffer a major defeat that puts them in great peril unless this character's strength, as well as that of their competitor, has been heavily showcased before then.

    Spoiler:
    This is why Ace versus Blackbeard was mostly on-panel. If it was completely off-panel, then you would have fans complaining by saying "How could somebody defeat a Logia like Ace? What could Blackbeard ever do in a fight with a Yonko Commander, he looked like a weakling back in Jaya and couldn't even catch Luffy! Oda pulled a defeat out of his ass just suit the plot. Where did Ace and Blackbeard even meet when Ace had no idea where Teach was?". Byt by seeing how Teach met Ace, and how he has the Yami Yami no Mi, Blackbeard being revealed to have won the fight in Thriller Bark was surprising, but plausible. It was satisfying for fans.

    Then came Akainu defeating Aokiji and becoming Fleet Admiral. We already saw how powerful they were pre-timeskip at the end of Long Ring Long Land and in Marineford. We saw how Akainu's lava powers were stronger than Ace's fire and how Ace could counter one of Aokiji's ice attacks. And we knew most of all that Akainu and Aokiji don't agree on their sense of justice, as seen in Robin's flashback and how they both treat their soldiers differently. So when we learned from Jinbe at the end of Fishman Island how Akainu beat Aokiji, we already had enough info to be satisfied with why such a battle would happen and how it turned out.

    In Zou, we learned about how Marco and the Whitebeard Remnants lost against the Blackbeard Pirates. But we could swallow that because of what we saw from Whitebeard and Blackbeard's feats during the fight with Ace and throughout Marineford. Even when Blackbeard just got the Devil Fruit, he wrecked all of Marineford with one attack. And we knew ever since Fishman Island that he became a Yonko, so it was a given that he became stronger. The Gorosei even said right before the timeskip that the one contender who could go up against Teach to become the next Yonko would be Marco. We saw how strong Marco was at Marineford and we saw how his crew had to retreat once Whitebeard was down. Jozu even lost an arm to Aokiji at Marineford. So when we learned that Teach's forces beat Marco's forces, it was believable.


    But what do we know about the Revolutionaries? All we have is what we have seen from Ivankov and Sabo, the latter having only just gotten his Devil Fruit at Dressrosa. We haven't seen ANYTHING of Dragon's battle capabilities. We have only gotten hints of what his powers might be from abnormal weather conditions. If Oda has Dragon lose against Teach off-panel, fans would go: "What are Dragon's powers? Wow, the Revolutionaries are so weak. I can't believe we never saw how Dragon could fight, and now he lost/needs help. Sabo curbstomped Burgess twice at Dressrosa, how could the Blackbeard Pirates win?". Dragon hasn't even met Luffy or had his motivations explored yet, so him losing wouldn't feel emotionally satisfying either so much as just disappointing.

    Now in regards to Alabasta, that's different and really would be just that the Straw Hats wouldn't be able to intervene lol. But it's not as much that Alabasta can't be destroyed so much as that there wouldn't be much drama behind that happening if the Straw Hats didn't at least TRY to stop that in present time. It would just be a background event and would be forgotten until it become relevant after the Elbaf or Raftel.

    Spoiler:
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  10. #850

    Default Re: The Reverie Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    I was talking about how you said that Blackbeard raiding Baltigo didn't result in a rescue mission with the Straw Hats. And you were talking earlier to No Swords about fearing that Oda wouldn't have any tragedies happen if the Straw Hats can't be present. I was responding by saying that it's more complicated than that.
    I understand what you are saying, but I am not sure I see the connection to what I was saying. The tragedy was Alabasta, not, from what I gather, the defeat of the revolutionaries.

    Oda would never write a rescue arc with the Revolutionaries like that because he wouldn't have the Revolutionaries suffer any major defeats in battle aside from probably retreating. And I was connecting that to my opinion on how and why Oda off-panels certain fights/events for particular reasons, and how we haven't seen enough from the Revolutionaries to allow them to have a major defeat in battle yet.

    Basically, he is not going to have a character suffer a major defeat that puts them in great peril unless this character's strength, as well as that of their competitor, has been heavily showcased before then.

    Spoiler:
    This is why Ace versus Blackbeard was mostly on-panel. If it was completely off-panel, then you would have fans complaining by saying "How could somebody defeat a Logia like Ace? What could Blackbeard ever do in a fight with a Yonko Commander, he looked like a weakling back in Jaya and couldn't even catch Luffy! Oda pulled a defeat out of his ass just suit the plot. Where did Ace and Blackbeard even meet when Ace had no idea where Teach was?". Byt by seeing how Teach met Ace, and how he has the Yami Yami no Mi, Blackbeard being revealed to have won the fight in Thriller Bark was surprising, but plausible. It was satisfying for fans.

    Then came Akainu defeating Aokiji and becoming Fleet Admiral. We already saw how powerful they were pre-timeskip at the end of Long Ring Long Land and in Marineford. We saw how Akainu's lava powers were stronger than Ace's fire and how Ace could counter one of Aokiji's ice attacks. And we knew most of all that Akainu and Aokiji don't agree on their sense of justice, as seen in Robin's flashback and how they both treat their soldiers differently. So when we learned from Jinbe at the end of Fishman Island how Akainu beat Aokiji, we already had enough info to be satisfied with why such a battle would happen and how it turned out.

    In Zou, we learned about how Marco and the Whitebeard Remnants lost against the Blackbeard Pirates. But we could swallow that because of what we saw from Whitebeard and Blackbeard's feats during the fight with Ace and throughout Marineford. Even when Blackbeard just got the Devil Fruit, he wrecked all of Marineford with one attack. And we knew ever since Fishman Island that he became a Yonko, so it was a given that he became stronger. The Gorosei even said right before the timeskip that the one contender who could go up against Teach to become the next Yonko would be Marco. We saw how strong Marco was at Marineford and we saw how his crew had to retreat once Whitebeard was down. Jozu even lost an arm to Aokiji at Marineford. So when we learned that Teach's forces beat Marco's forces, it was believable.
    What I was talking about was that after the events of the Reverie, or because of them, Alabasta and Vivi become endangered. Which could lead to the revolutionaries helping them not get obliterated and bringing one of the previous founding families of the world government to their cause.

    Now in regards to Alabasta, that's different and really would be just that the Straw Hats wouldn't be able to intervene lol. But it's not as much that Alabasta can't be destroyed so much as that there wouldn't be much drama behind that happening if the Straw Hats didn't at least TRY to stop that in present time. It would just be a background event and would be forgotten until it become relevant after the Elbaf or Raftel.
    And this is why I am saying I hope Oda is capable of writing exactly that. Introduce the big problem with Alabasta's doom and start a conflict over there without the Straw Hats having to be there. I mean, it does not have to be Alabasta's doom, but Vivi's fate could be what is at stake.
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  11. #851
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    Default Re: The Reverie Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by K. Kira XXIII View Post
    I understand what you are saying, but I am not sure I see the connection to what I was saying. The tragedy was Alabasta, not, from what I gather, the defeat of the revolutionaries.
    I know. I just felt like elaborating on that because I was bored, I guess lol. I am very used to seeing people complain about fights getting off-paneled on other forums, so my thoughts on that stuck out in this situation when you mentioned that they didn't need a rescue arc or anything.


    What I was talking about was that after the events of the Reverie, or because of them, Alabasta and Vivi become endangered. Which could lead to the revolutionaries helping them not get obliterated and bringing one of the previous founding families of the world government to their cause.

    And this is why I am saying I hope Oda is capable of writing exactly that. Introduce the big problem with Alabasta's doom and start a conflict over there without the Straw Hats having to be there. I mean, it does not have to be Alabasta's doom, but Vivi's fate could be what is at stake.
    I see what you mean. That can maybe work.

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  12. #852

    Default Re: The Reverie Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    I know. I just felt like elaborating on that because I was bored, I guess lol.
    Fair enough. Jajalulu.

    I am very used to seeing people complain about fights getting off-paneled on other forums, so my thoughts on that stuck out in this situation when you mentioned that they didn't need a rescue arc or anything.
    Ah yes, I would love for everything to be shown, but I get it. Sometimes you just cannot focus on certain aspect, or elaborate them as much, or there is no real purpose for it to be shown. I do understand that Alabasta getting attacked lacks tension because having the protagonists elsewhere, there would not be much to show. That's why I am focusing more on Cobra and Vivi.

    I see what you mean. That can maybe work.
    Mainly, Cobra's inquiries need to lead somewhere. I am sure he will act ignorant and phrase in a way such that he does not give away how much he really knows, but just mentioning the subject will put a target on him. Not to mention his sickness, it seems to me that Vivi is being setup to inherit the throne, if that leads to Cobra's death or impriso....wow, Cobra is sent to Level 6 Impel Down to be saved by the guy that once copied his face, BON-CHAN! Jajaja
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  13. #853

    Default Re: The Reverie Discussion Thread

    You know the Reverie is just a reason for an awesome hot girlīs night (pajama party).

    I mean, come on, Vivi, Shirahoshi, Rebecca and Viola.

    They will fawn over each individual Strawhat while stroking each otherīs hair after a bath together.

  14. #854

    Default Re: The Reverie Discussion Thread

    Now knowing that we have a lot of time until Wano starts, i think the Reverie will have more to it than previously speculated.
    Besides the necessary political stuff iam looking forward to, i think itīs also time to further introduce the revolutionaries to create some action and showing them going against their sworn enemy.
    Dragon didnīt gather all his commanders without a reason and which time would be better to strike than during the world meeting with such high attention from the world.
    I donīt see them start a full blown confrontation with a resulting battle, but more a mission to get some words to all the royalty, with a possibility of them revealing the treasure of Maryjoa to the world.
    Would make a great introduction to them and their goal, while also starting a final conflict, which will play out during the end of the story.
    The epic battle of BusterCall vs. Don is decided !!!
    And the results are 3:2 for Don..


  15. #855

    Default Re: The Reverie Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Quichotte De Flamingo View Post
    Besides the necessary political stuff iam looking forward to, i think itīs also time to further introduce the revolutionaries to create some action and showing them going against their sworn enemy.
    Dragon didnīt gather all his commanders without a reason and which time would be better to strike than during the world meeting with such high attention from the world.
    I donīt see them start a full blown confrontation with a resulting battle, but more a mission to get some words to all the royalty, with a possibility of them revealing the treasure of Maryjoa to the world.
    Would make a great introduction to them and their goal, while also starting a final conflict, which will play out during the end of the story.
    If Dragon storms the Reverie, i would think it has to do about the mineral they found in the weapons they got from Mango in Dressrosa.
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  16. #856
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    Default Re: The Reverie Discussion Thread

    It's interesting that many people (me included) think about some big name crushing the Reverie. 3 possibilities have already been named:

    - Kaido (who would hear about in Shirahoshi via Caribou who in return has been captured by Drake)

    - Blackbeard (who would maybe want to get the "National Treasure of Mariejoa", which I took since the moment it was revealed as something of extremely huge importance comparable to the One Piece itself)

    - The Revolutionaries (who would have the most obvious motives to appear there and further their cause)


    Maybe we should start a poll about that.


    Or maybe the whole thing will really be just a bureaucratic, boring meeting among kings and diplomats...
    Last edited by Big Black Hole; April 18th, 2018 at 09:53 AM.


    Carrot's still never gonna join the crew.

  17. #857
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    Default Re: The Reverie Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Black Hole View Post
    It's interesting that many people (me included) think about some big name crushing the Reverie. 3 possibilities have already been named:

    - Kaido (who would hear about in Shirahoshi via Caribou who in return has been captured by Drake)

    - Blackbeard (who would maybe want to get the "National Treasure of Mariejoa", which I took since the moment it was revealed as something of extremely huge importance comparable to the One Piece itself)

    - The Revolutionaries (who would have the most obvious motives to appear there and further their cause)


    Maybe we should start a poll about that.


    Or maybe the whole thing will really be just a bureaucratic, boring meeting among kings and diplomats...
    I think Dragon is too smart to crash the reverie when Mariejois has probably the highest level of security for that special occasion.
    Now I think Kaido is kinda stupid enough to do it, but I doubt he would attack the reverie literally before his own arc starts.
    So yeah, I'm pretty sure Blackbeard is the one to crash the party

  18. #858

    Default Re: The Reverie Discussion Thread

    Blackbeard does things on purpose so, to me, the right question to be asked would be "why blackbeard would want to crash the reverie? / which goal he would want to achieve doing that? / what does he would have to gain doing that?"
    "I'm simply an accident. Why take it all so seriously?"

  19. #859
    Discovered Stowaway Big Black Hole's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Reverie Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fraco View Post
    Blackbeard does things on purpose so, to me, the right question to be asked would be "why blackbeard would want to crash the reverie? / which goal he would want to achieve doing that? / what does he would have to gain doing that?"
    One theory someone posted was that he wants to have the "Secret treasure of Mariejois". Which the way Doffy talked about it always seemed to me like an earth-shattering thing on a level with One Piece itself.

    One thing's for sure, no matter how this goes, I doubt that the nature of this thing itself is fully revealed. I mean, it was described as "It's existence will shake the world". What in the hell could this be? We're probably learn much more about the Gorosei, but whatever this thing is is a good candidate for only fully revealed when Oda shows us the True History flashback.


    Carrot's still never gonna join the crew.

  20. #860

    Default Re: The Reverie Discussion Thread

    Enel will crash! If not now, then when?

    I know this sounds like a crack theory, but Enel's return has been long foreshadowed and we have good reason to believe has a Weapon with a capital W, and on top of that, dude thinks he's GOD. A meeting of Kings just makes sense for his comeback.

    On the more certain end of things, I'm really excited to see Wapol again. He's got one of the most interesting stories of all OP characters. King to pirate to bum to inventor to king! I love it!
    My favorite characters! - Usopp, Luffy, Blackbeard, Robin, Crocodile, Nami, Zoro, Buggy, Franky, Sanji, Chopper, Magellan, Kizaru, Garp, Arlong, Caesar, Wapol, Enel, Hiriluk, Kureha, Iceberg, Paulie, Genzo, Mr. 2, Ivankov, Bege, Jinbe, Barto, Whitebeard, Moria, Shakky, Big Mom

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