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Thread: General Kingdom Hearts Thread

  1. #1141
    Noseless and Handless akagami7's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Kingdom Hearts Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobodyman View Post
    Spoiler:
    And the Disney worlds, while nice, really just feel like padding and filler more than they ever have. I mean, I guess technically they always have been, but something about them this time just felt really formulaic. I dunno, maybe it's just me getting older and my tastes changing.
    Spoiler:
    imo I think KH2 takes the cake in that regard. Even without taking into account the optional ones like lion king or tron part 2, half of the worlds feel like they are there just to make the game pointlessly longer from a narrative point of view. Mulan and Pirates of the Caribbean are just retelling of the movies and Agrabah and Halloween Town have absolutely no connection to the plot.

    I was actually surprised that in KH3, the Toy Story, Monsters Inc. and Big Hero 6 worlds take place after their respective movies, instead of just retelling their stories like the frozen and tangled worlds did.


  2. #1142
    Discovered Stowaway andre's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Kingdom Hearts Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MajinArekkusu View Post
    And to think there are people asking for Nomura to direct a new Final Fantasy game.


    KH3 has, without exaggeration, the worst story and especially the worst storytelling style in a story-driven JRPG. Itís so amazingly bad.


    It violates the ďshow, donít tellĒ rule to the extreme. Every story scene is just characters standing there explaining gibberish to you in slow, awkwardly delivered sentences with unnatural pauses between each line.


    Itís like a self-parody. If you tried to parody all the worst tendencies of JRPGs and shounen anime you would end up with something like KH3

    I got into an argument with some "real" fans on another board because I suggested that Kingdom Hearts storytelling would be much better if they took a queue from Sony Santa Monica's God of War, or any game in the last 10 years. The cutscenes are overbearing and a more competent developer could do really cool things instead. Still love the game and especially the last quarter of it.

  3. #1143
    Noseless and Handless akagami7's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Kingdom Hearts Thread

    BTW, am I the only one who feels that, in general, the english dub for the KH games is fairly awful?


  4. #1144
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    Default Re: General Kingdom Hearts Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by akagami7 View Post
    BTW, am I the only one who feels that, in general, the english dub for the KH games is fairly awful?
    I think the dialogue is the best it has ever been overall. The voice acting among disney characters varies wildly from world to world though, for instance, I thought Woody was horrible, but Mike and Sully were pretty great. As for the original characters, some of it was better than before, some worse. I don't understand fluent Japanese, so only really great voice acting in the language is really noticeable for me. So I'm satisfied with it overall, since I never expected the quality of The Witcher or God of War.

  5. #1145
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Kingdom Hearts Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by andre View Post
    I got into an argument with some "real" fans on another board because I suggested that Kingdom Hearts storytelling would be much better if they took a queue from Sony Santa Monica's God of War, or any game in the last 10 years. The cutscenes are overbearing and a more competent developer could do really cool things instead. Still love the game and especially the last quarter of it.
    Just for the sake of discussion since I am a fellow God of War PS4 fan and ignoring how the main problem with KH cutscenes isn't solely their frequency but mainly the awful scripting, I don't think God of War's one-shot cutscene style should really be a staple for anything that isn't meant to be a character-driven story focusing on a small cast and mostly focuses on just the hero (only other example that comes to mind is the average WRPG or Zelda). Otherwise, it restricts you from getting cutscenes of characters in other places (which in turn restricts character/plot development potential outside of your main party), prevents a lot of the characters from looking too animated or having emphasized focus unless you completely stop the gameplay (in which it's literally just a cutscene anyways without the fade-to-black transitions),

    God of War works because it's supposed to be an intimate character-driven journey about a father and son bonding in all the best and worst ways. But even then, God of War barely has a memorable supporting cast besides Kratos, Atreus, a funny talking head feeding you exposition, and two Dwarven shopkeepers who teleport everywhere. The antagonists are used solely as tools with two-dimensional personalities to progress their story and act as foils rather than being legitimately compelling characters on their own, and then... nope, there's nobody else present in the story lol. Of course, that could be blamed more on God of War's supporting character writing than God of War's one-shot camera take formula being this flawed. There's always potential for future God of War games or games modeling themselves after this take having better overall cast writing.

    A series like Kingdom Hearts, for better or worse, is anything but that though lol. This would only work if the story exclusively focused on Sora, Donald, and Goofy as the sole priority in a character-driven story (basically The Goofy Movie turned into an action-RPG) and everyone else's roles were trimmed down to only show when they directly interact with said trio for obvious reasons. Which, honestly, I wouldn't even really mind. Especially to help soft reboot the story post-KH3. It would be a great breath of fresh air and some of the funniest dialogue in KH3 comes from how they interact since Sora doesn't have to constantly worry about Riku and Kairi anymore as his sole bland selfless character trait.

    But KH3 itself had no chance in hell of ever being anything like that as a series climax. And regardless, a big appeal in this series is Disney fanservice. Only having random Disney NPCs just talking to you during gameplay and not seeing any direct kooky interactions between the characters will never not feel underwhelming.

    But focusing on KH3 specifically, I feel as though the reason people criticize the frequency of the cutscenes is partly because of how convoluted the cutscenes, partly because of how the Disney world plots are mostly movie rehashes that skip all over crucial plot beats, and partly because Nomura or whoever is writing these cutscenes has no idea how make scenes concise without repetitive non-essential fat.
    Last edited by Count Mario; February 10th, 2019 at 01:06 PM.

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  6. #1146
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    Default Re: General Kingdom Hearts Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    Just for the sake of discussion since I am a fellow God of War PS4 fan and ignoring how the main problem with KH cutscenes isn't solely their frequency but mainly the awful scripting, I don't think God of War's one-shot cutscene style should really be a staple for anything that isn't meant to be a character-driven story focusing on a small cast and mostly focuses on just the hero (only other example that comes to mind is the average WRPG or Zelda). Otherwise, it restricts you from getting cutscenes of characters in other places (which in turn restricts character/plot development potential outside of your main party), prevents a lot of the characters from looking too animated or having emphasized focus unless you completely stop the gameplay (in which it's literally just a cutscene anyways without the fade-to-black transitions),

    God of War works because it's supposed to be an intimate character-driven journey about a father and son bonding in all the best and worst ways. But even then, God of War barely has a memorable supporting cast besides Kratos, Atreus, a funny talking head feeding you exposition, and two Dwarven shopkeepers who teleport everywhere. The antagonists are used solely as tools with two-dimensional personalities to progress their story and act as foils rather than being legitimately compelling characters on their own, and then... nope, there's nobody else present in the story lol. Of course, that could be blamed more on God of War's supporting character writing than God of War's one-shot camera take formula being this flawed. There's always potential for future God of War games or games modeling themselves after this take having better overall cast writing.

    A series like Kingdom Hearts, for better or worse, is anything but that though lol. This would only work if the story exclusively focused on Sora, Donald, and Goofy as the sole priority in a character-driven story (basically The Goofy Movie turned into an action-RPG) and everyone else's roles were trimmed down to only show when they directly interact with said trio for obvious reasons. Which, honestly, I wouldn't even really mind. Especially to help soft reboot the story post-KH3. It would be a great breath of fresh air and some of the funniest dialogue in KH3 comes from how they interact since Sora doesn't have to constantly worry about Riku and Kairi anymore as his sole bland selfless character trait.

    But KH3 itself had no chance in hell of ever being anything like that as a series climax. And regardless, a big appeal in this series is Disney fanservice. And only having random Disney NPCs just talking to you during gameplay and not seeing any direct kooky interactions between the characters will never not feel underwhelming.

    But focusing on KH3 specifically, I feel as though the reason people criticize the frequency of the cutscenes is partly because of how convoluted the cutscenes, partly because of how the Disney world plots are mostly movie rehashes that skip all over crucial plot beats, and partly because Nomura or whoever is writing these cutscenes has no idea how make scenes concise without repetitive non-essential fat.
    God of War may be a bad example, but I'm more focused on the principals; that a lot of the dialogue, especially focused on Disney World stuff, could be streamlined through exploration. Stopping the game for shitty cutscenes with only trivial things revealed is a gaming crime that can be remedied. By the same principal, Every single cutscene that does have to deal with action should allow for some user input. A lot of PS2 games got flak for quick-timed events, but when used well, they allow the player to feel like they're a part of the action on the more heavily scripted parts. I'm a fan of this when done correctly and even KH2 did this better than KH3.

    I remember when the cutscenes in FF7 felt like rewards. Those were good days.

  7. #1147

    Default Re: General Kingdom Hearts Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by akagami7 View Post
    BTW, am I the only one who feels that, in general, the english dub for the KH games is fairly awful?
    Only Birth By Sleep was bad and thatís probably because of voice direction because Terra and Aqua sound great in later games. I blame Kairiís annoying moe kawaii voice in this game on voice direction too because the VA sounds great as Batgirl in Young Justice.

  8. #1148
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Kingdom Hearts Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by andre View Post
    God of War may be a bad example, but I'm more focused on the principals; that a lot of the dialogue, especially focused on Disney World stuff, could be streamlined through exploration. Stopping the game for shitty cutscenes with only trivial things revealed is a gaming crime that can be remedied. By the same principal, Every single cutscene that does have to deal with action should allow for some user input. A lot of PS2 games got flak for quick-timed events, but when used well, they allow the player to feel like they're a part of the action on the more heavily scripted parts. I'm a fan of this when done correctly and even KH2 did this better than KH3.

    I remember when the cutscenes in FF7 felt like rewards. Those were good days.
    In that sense, I mainly agree with you. Although cutscenes can still help out in having memorable character introductions, interactions, and humor that exploration streamlining can't ever fully do.

    I'm not the biggest fan of quick-time events. They were mostly tolerable in Kingdom Hearts II, but then there are moments where they got uber cheap (any Reaction Command against Demyx or Xemnas) and had to be repeated a bunch of times in one sitting and thus lose impact. I actually prefer how KH3 cut those out and restricted Triangle to just attacks. Although KH3 goes WAY too overboard with having to many different options for Triangle and should have allowed more player choice in what to select. And the Attraction commands never needed to exist at all, their flashiness loses their luster after the first couple worlds.

    I actually don't mind having lots of cutscenes in video games (so long as they aren't ridiculously dragged on, tangential, and pretentious like in Metal Gear Solid) as long as the characters and writing are engaging. And for Kingdom Hearts, that balance is... very hit or miss, to say the least.

    Spoiler:
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  9. #1149

    Default Re: General Kingdom Hearts Thread

    I think it's a good time to let you folks know that Clemps is doing a series of analysis videos of the Kingdom Hearts games. (Currently at the first half of Birth by Sleep.)


    Hidden:

  10. #1150
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Kingdom Hearts Thread

    I'm wondering how exactly you would even split Birth by Sleep into two halves unless you account for all three campaigns on a simultaneous scale.

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  11. #1151
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    Default Re: General Kingdom Hearts Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    In that sense, I mainly agree with you. Although cutscenes can still help out in having memorable character introductions, interactions, and humor that exploration streamlining can't ever fully do.

    I'm not the biggest fan of quick-time events. They were mostly tolerable in Kingdom Hearts II, but then there are moments where they got uber cheap (any Reaction Command against Demyx or Xemnas) and had to be repeated a bunch of times in one sitting and thus lose impact. I actually prefer how KH3 cut those out and restricted Triangle to just attacks. Although KH3 goes WAY too overboard with having to many different options for Triangle and should have allowed more player choice in what to select. And the Attraction commands never needed to exist at all, their flashiness loses their luster after the first couple worlds.

    I actually don't mind having lots of cutscenes in video games (so long as they aren't ridiculously dragged on, tangential, and pretentious like in Metal Gear Solid) as long as the characters and writing are engaging. And for Kingdom Hearts, that balance is... very hit or miss, to say the least.
    See, I can't think of a single video game with cutscenes taking up as much percentage as in KH3, that were satisfying. I think they can be a nice change of pace and, like you said, are sometimes necessary, but I firmly believe that the majority of a game's time should be spent playing because games are best experienced, played.

    As for quicktime, the ones you mentioned were horrible, Demyx being maybe the worst I can remember in gaming, but when they work well, they really do, for instance bashing Zeus's face in at the end of God of War 3, the knife fight in Resident Evil 4, or the entirety of Heavy Rain. Of course, this is just my opinion and tons of games, especially from around 2005-2013, were truly horrible at implementing them. Though I must bring up the ending of Kh2 with you fighting off Xemnas' lasers, and from Kh3 (Spoilers below)

    Spoiler:
    one of my favorite scenes, when Sora, with the power of the hundreds from KHUX, fought back countless heartless. I would have preferred more instances like this
    Last edited by andre; February 10th, 2019 at 02:45 PM.

  12. #1152

    Default Re: General Kingdom Hearts Thread

    I'm not going to defend this games story in any way, but for some reason I enjoy the insanity of it and just some of the lines that are spouted out with a straight face. Despite not remembering half the stuff that is mentioned or talked about, I can't get enough of the cutscenes. It truly is a guilty pleasure.

    As for my progress, I decided to go to the Frozen world being 6 levels under the worlds battle level. Up till this world, my only deaths had been two times on the gummy ship and nothing in actual fights in the various worlds. Whenever I get an option to choose between worlds I go for the higher level one in hopes I will actually get a challenge (playing on proud). Well Frozen gave me a challenge for once, where I died a number of times in certain fights and had to actually be careful and not just spam X the whole time. I beat the boss my first try but there were a number of close call moments so by the end I felt accomplished for winning unlike that other fights before. That said, the other world will probably be a breeze since I am higher level than the battle level of the world.

  13. #1153

    Default Re: General Kingdom Hearts Thread

    I do think a final mix version or related DLC or whatever will happen, since there's precedent. Remember, vanilla KH2 had only proud mode and the Sephiroth secret boss.

    Side note - I REALLY still want to play any version of KH2FM already.

  14. #1154

    Default Re: General Kingdom Hearts Thread

    I'm this close to buying the 2.5 on ps3 and trying to import D3 from USA (even if that second one seems expensive, and bad).

    I liked BBS a lot, and I wanted to face the full organization back then.

    That review of clemps made me realize that I'm ok with not playing CoM or the first game. And I'm sure I can try and infiltrate some friend's house to play the extremelly long name prologs if needed.
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  15. #1155

    Default Re: General Kingdom Hearts Thread

    I had COM for GBA. The remake is nice but the 3D plane (as i've heard) makes it easy to trivalize the game.

  16. #1156

    Default Re: General Kingdom Hearts Thread

    I finished it like 4 times back in the day, the GBA version. It was my first kingdom hearts game actually. Hollow bastion with Belle, beast and maleficent was so confusing. Everything else made sense in stand-alone.
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  17. #1157

    Default Re: General Kingdom Hearts Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by andre View Post
    See, I can't think of a single video game with cutscenes taking up as much percentage as in KH3, that were satisfying. I think they can be a nice change of pace and, like you said, are sometimes necessary, but I firmly believe that the majority of a game's time should be spent playing because games are best experienced, played.
    Does the Story Mode of Guilty Gear and Blazblue counts?

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  18. #1158
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    Quote Originally Posted by KageKageKing View Post
    Does the Story Mode of Guilty Gear and Blazblue counts?
    I have not played either series.

  19. #1159

    Default Re: General Kingdom Hearts Thread

    How to make the game actually challenging :
    -you can use magics, objects and keyblades' transformation
    -do not use cooperation, attractions, summons, keyblades' finish moves, shotlocks
    -keep quests for after you beat the game, if you try to collect everything your level will be too high and you will destroy every boss

    If you do this fights will actually look like enemies have a chance of touching you or even kill you in some rare occasion. If you don't even critical mode will look like the most boring (but colorful) walk in the park ever.

    Things you can do to make the end of the story easier to understand :
    nothing!

  20. #1160
    Terminally Apathetic y2kyle89's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Kingdom Hearts Thread


    ^it's the entire game in a nutshell, so spoilers
    Last edited by y2kyle89; February 12th, 2019 at 06:14 PM. Reason: I just realized that might not be obvious by the title...
    Quote Originally Posted by John Adams
    I have always been dissatisfied, I know that. But lately I find I reek of discontentment; it fills my throat and floods my brain. Sometimes I fear there's no longer a dream but only the discontentment.

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