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Thread: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

  1. #2421
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by maxterdexter View Post
    Ok, you don't see the difference between "He took a gun and shoot his father fully aware of what he was doing" to "She was eating so fast that se ate her Mother and siblings, and is unaware of what she did".

    Doflamingo was an entitled little prick who wanted revenge for someone daring to remove his privilege. Linlin was an ignorant little giant monster of a girlwho didn't knew her strenght and had no table manners.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Besides, there's a factor that will forever damn Doflamingo more than anything. Rocinante. Someone who lived the same life as him, and who didn't sold his soul to a snot monster for revenge.

    Any change of perspective would only make Doflamingo angrier and more kill happy, any change of perspective (except revealing that Carmel was a child traficker) would have caused Linlin to not eat her family.
    He was raised in environment of CDs that use guns like toys on Others. He was a kid, not like he was fully aware of guns and consequences. And he was in his weakest moment just like BM is in her tantrums and wrecks everything even as adult.

    Since he was younger, maybe Homing kept Rocinante away from CDs's behaviour. And there he had the bad example next to him, if doflamingo had a bigger bro that did all thosee bad things and saw the results then maybe he would not end up bad.


    With BM oda explored by far the darkest theme in OP, some attack on titan thing, why is that manga not in shonen jump? Yet it's because she is one of the good guys???? It's so dark even for OP that Oda can't even show it, he just dances around it and only implies it without actual confirmation.
    Last edited by uniaka ikuzakas; February 13th, 2018 at 09:34 AM.

  2. #2422
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by uniaka ikuzakas View Post
    He was raised in environment of CDs that use guns like toys on Others. He was a kid, not like he was fully aware of guns and consequences. And he was in his weakest moment just like BM is in her tantrums and wrecks everything even as adult.

    Since he was younger, maybe Homing kept Rocinante away from CDs's behaviour. And there he had the bad example next to him, if doflamingo had a bigger bro that did all thosee bad things and saw the results then maybe he would not end up bad.


    With BM oda explored by far the darkest theme in OP, some attack on titan thing, why is that manga not in shonen jump? Yet it's because she is one of the good guys????
    Except that Oda had Rosinante literally say Doflamingo was "born evil". And given how they are twins who grew up in the same circumstances, it is difficult to deny that.

    One Piece is a simple series that isn't going to delve too much into the intricacies of nature vs nurture.

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  3. #2423

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Even if I were to concede that Doflamingo was too stupid to understand DEATH on that flashback, even after he was nailed to a burning house and shoot with arrows, he still chose to kill his dad. When did Linlin choose to eat her family?

    The two brothers are 2 years appart, 6 and 8 when they leave marijoa. You should take authorial intent into account on why would Oda make Doflamingo and Rocinante experience the same hell, just to say "oh, well, Rocinante was shielded from that by his parents, and they didn't shield Doflamingo from it because reasons".

    The darkest theme is "accidental canibalism" or permisive parenting? We went through willing canibalism, using people as cattle, denying the existence of others, "go with the flow" racism, and distopian shit with memory manipulation on a country wide scale that would have been actually dark if properly explored.
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  4. #2424

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Grabbing this post from a guy I know who got banned on neogaf (Ray Down):

    Now lets compare two villains flashbacks with Dolfa and Big Mom:

    -Dolfa: Grew up in a tarnished environment where everything is given to him where anything below you is lesser and for your amusement, he taken from that environment by his father to teach his kids a better life, but through time does nothing but get his son to go against him to the point where he executed him and cut off his head to try to reach back to his former life, afterwards he creates a crimnal empire basically on his own with his own determination with no lofty/noble goal besides being the pirate king and causing havoc (hell he owned a slave house).

    -Big Mom: Simply born a a freak of nature a natural born destroyer who was given to MC by her parents (Though BM is unaware of this) to help and take care of her, we see she ultimately good nature and sorta just misunderstood/naive kid with the bear and fishman stuff but throughout it MC does nothing but excuse BM actions asking the kids to forgive her and encouraging her actions, then unbeknownst to her they have to leave Elbaf and she lives her normally life again learning MC "Dream", then during her birthday she mysteriously disappears and all the kids.

    Struesan comes along to help and cooks for her and helps realise her dream and helps form the BMP for his own ends/exploit Big Mom just like MC did.


    Key differences that paint a different light:

    -No Corazon & Innocence vs Lack: Unlike with the Big Mom flashback there no one like Corazon to contrast Dolfa. Corazon grew up in the same environment and conditions as Dolfa and didn't believe or have the same values as Dolfa. During the flashback Cora is the good brother and the one the audience believes/attaches to his own words about his brother is that he was born evil that nothing changed him to be that way and couldn't understand how his parents brought a monster like him into the world and the flashback does nothing to critique of Corazon thoughts or paint Dolfa in any positive light that even with the teaching of there father it did nothing for him (he killed his father).


    Big Mom on the other hand has no light painting her as evil like Dolfa, at times she a uncontrollable beast like the hulk but she has no control over that and has to much strength and is uncontrolled but a seemingly normal naive sorta dumb kid (even her personality from this time has carried on in ways to her current form), she generally wasn't trying to hurt the other kids hell in her mind she was helping the fishman and the animals and her only guidance the one she believes truly understands her encouraged her, abolished her and asked others to forgive her and told her to do whatever. With proper guidance of a good parent this would not have happened as seen linlin changed under MC, imagine one that was positive.


    -Using: As we all know MC persona she presented to Linlin and others was a sham a faux she a shyster and did all those things in order for her scam to continue and for her to exploit linlin, she shaped Linlin. Hell even strus used her in his own way.


    Dolfa on the other had did everything on his own volition, the closest was Trebol who gave him the Ito Ito fruit, but that power did not corrupt Dolfa and lead him on this path.

    No two villains in OP really have flashbacks, but even then you can see how Oda has portrayed and written both different.
    Last edited by Lord Monkey D.; February 13th, 2018 at 09:58 AM.

  5. #2425

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Wasn't Trebol the one that gave the gun to Doffy telling him that he was going to give him the means?

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    It is perfectly normal that Cora and Mango grew up differently from their experiences as children.

    Also Streussen did exactly what Trebol did to Mango. Both acted as advisors to a ~monster~.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Also the oversimplification of why Doffy killed his father needs to be elaborated. Because of his father Mango lost his status, her mother died, he was hanged and shot at.

    Then comes Trebol and tells his, Incan show you the way and he kills his father. I might be remembering wrong, but Mango had all the reasons to be upset at Homing, yeah we could say that it comes from losing his privilege. But even Homing admitted on the phone he made a mistake, Homing's ego is what caused them to go through that, so Mango was not going to keep following such a ~weak man~.

    And while others would just ran away, others have killed their parents because of what they perceive as abuse.
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  6. #2426
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    Except that Oda had Rosinante literally say Doflamingo was "born evil". And given how they are twins who grew up in the same circumstances, it is difficult to deny that.

    One Piece is a simple series that isn't going to delve too much into the intricacies of nature vs nurture.
    I'm pretty sure Oda was trying a more complex villain with Doffly. Rocinante's word are either an infortunate wording a subtlety in translation.

    Don't mess with the Law if you don't have an Ace up your sleeve.

  7. #2427

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by K. Kira XXIII View Post
    Wasn't Trebol the one that gave the gun to Doffy telling him that he was going to give him the means?

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    It is perfectly normal that Cora and Mango grew up differently from their experiences as children.

    Also Streussen did exactly what Trebol did to Mango. Both acted as advisors to a ~monster~.
    Dolfa was already the man he was when he meet Trebol all he gave him was a means to do it (which Dolfa could have found his own way) but he himself is still below Dolfa nor was he manipulated nor has his world view shaped by Trebol it was already established, different power dynamic compared to Big Mom who was shown to be naive child not taught restraint and such from a good parent and you can trace alot of her current behaviors down to Mother C herself.

    Corazon himself grew up just like Dolfa and suffered all the same just as he did and at a younger age and didn't want/have intent to murder his father and cut off his head.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by desa View Post
    I'm pretty sure Oda was trying a more complex villain with Doffly. Rocinante's word are either an infortunate wording a subtlety in translation.
    Pretty sure its the same in Japanese but Greg can chime in with that.

  8. #2428
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Any way on the topic of Big Mom being good despite evil stuff I would equate it to bus being ok with Hachi enslaving Nami's village for a decade or Mr2 trying to kill Usopp, Vivi and Sanji. And distantly Luffy trying to steal gold from the skypians.

    The first 2 you are simply supposed to gloss over thanks to change of attitude and the last you let it past because the context makes it harmeless.

    Don't mess with the Law if you don't have an Ace up your sleeve.

  9. #2429

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Of course, he had already gone through most consequences his father's decision had. However, it was Trebol that pushed him into what he became as he facilitated his decision.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    There is no issue with Mama turning good afterwards, the problem is how long the transition takes. Which I don't think an immediate transition, in other words, right at the end of this arc, would be the most interesting for the story.
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  10. #2430
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by maxterdexter View Post
    Even if I were to concede that Doflamingo was too stupid to understand DEATH on that flashback, even after he was nailed to a burning house and shoot with arrows, he still chose to kill his dad. When did Linlin choose to eat her family?

    The two brothers are 2 years appart, 6 and 8 when they leave marijoa. You should take authorial intent into account on why would Oda make Doflamingo and Rocinante experience the same hell, just to say "oh, well, Rocinante was shielded from that by his parents, and they didn't shield Doflamingo from it because reasons".

    The darkest theme is "accidental canibalism" or permisive parenting? We went through willing canibalism, using people as cattle, denying the existence of others, "go with the flow" racism, and distopian shit with memory manipulation on a country wide scale that would have been actually dark if properly explored.

    He was still younger and if Homing saw that allowing Doflamingo to stay too much with Cds makes him turn into them they for sure would be less likely to allow the second son to stay with them and copy that behaviour. For doflamingo they made mistake and was too late but they can learn from that with the younger one.


    And while some bros do look up and admire the older bro, rocinante had the luck to see the consequences of doflamingo's actions in time not to end up like him. Also people like sengoku to raise him unlike trebol.


    And if attack on titan got rejected because of that very reason from jump, and oda can only imply as 1 time only thing without anything clear in 1 arc, it shows that yes, it's more dark then Others things they accept in jump, yet oda decided to go with that on one of the good characters?
    Last edited by uniaka ikuzakas; February 13th, 2018 at 10:50 AM.

  11. #2431
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Monkey D. View Post
    Dolfa was already the man he was when he meet Trebol all he gave him was a means to do it (which Dolfa could have found his own way) but he himself is still below Dolfa nor was he manipulated nor has his world view shaped by Trebol it was already established, different power dynamic compared to Big Mom who was shown to be naive child not taught restraint and such from a good parent and you can trace alot of her current behaviors down to Mother C herself.
    That seems more like a discussion for the Dressrosa or Tottland thread but I disagree on that.

    If we were to not see the Doffly's commanders shape him there is no way we would see the commanders being the ones to overeact every opportunity in his childhood like burning the city for making Doffly fall. And they were always reminding him of being royalty all the time.

    You add that to the trauma of crucifiction, seeing Homy admit he was wrong on the phone and seeing his brother starve and mother die and I really really doubt that the point of all that was simply Doffly is evil.

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  12. #2432

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    1. Islands we know nothing about.

    2. Islands that are *provoking* her by either breaking agreements or witholding.

    Yes, you're absolutely right, context ****is**** the key.

    And we *deliberately* aren't given it.

    I'm just telling you how she'll be rationalized down the line, like it or not this *is* Oda's MO.

    Not saying she isn't a vilain or troublesome, but saying nasty things that aren't carried through on ***like an assassination plot*** creates a grim aura, but one that with enough time or context, can be understood and accepted.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---



    You have proved my point.

    You rationalized Luffy's words because we knew the context of the situation.

    Surely I don't believe Luffy is evil.

    But when you understand both sides of the story we can see that Luffy is upset because he believes Zoro killed their benefactors in cold blood.

    So here's what's happening with Mom in the context of that scene.

    Let's say Zoro is an island and Luffy is Mom.

    We do not know that Zoro has supposedly killed the benefactors.
    We just see Zoro minding his own business.
    Luffy appears out of nowhere and ferociously announces that he's going to kill Zoro for breaking a crew rule.

    How does Luffy look there? Does he look anything other than evil?

    That's exactly how we see Mom now.
    Getting fruit for a cake -> murdering an entire island
    Not getting sweets -> destroying an island

    Pretty good context there if you ask me.

    Like i said, these things have to explained. I am not saying either she will not get a redemption, i say the redemption better be handled well.

    If you have a character enjoy taking lives, body parts, whatever, and she has done these things to characters that can be considered good, heck let them even be evil, the explanation has to be better than "misunderstood child that never learned right or wrong".

    Otherwise where do you draw the line in a manga that ultimately has a very established morality to it.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Regarding DD, its pretty obvious that Oda went for the parallel between DD and Law and how a loving figure in the latter prevented him from becoming the former.
    DD might have already had questionable morals from our point of view but in his world that was pretty normal, meaning Mariejoa.
    He was no crazy avenger that wanted the world to pay for what he had experienced.
    And Law before Dressrosa was in the middle of the spectrum between DD and Rocinante (can be seen by his statement of "weak can not choose how they die" which we later learn is actually DDs statement + still trying to fulfill Rocis wish of saving Dressrosa, so two forces opposite to each other basically) and ultiamtely, its Luffy and the Strawhats who pull him completely away from being a second DD.

  13. #2433
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by MiyamotoMusashi View Post
    Getting fruit for a cake -> murdering an entire island
    Not getting sweets -> destroying an island

    Pretty good context there if you ask me.

    Like i said, these things have to explained. I am not saying either she will not get a redemption, i say the redemption better be handled well.

    If you have a character enjoy taking lives, body parts, whatever, and she has done these things to characters that can be considered good, heck let them even be evil, the explanation has to be better than "misunderstood child that never learned right or wrong".

    Otherwise where do you draw the line in a manga that ultimately has a very established morality to it.
    We gloss over Hachi past actions quite easily soI could see something similar where we just don't mention that stuff that's to bad and explain away as Big Mom just being misguided.

    Don't mess with the Law if you don't have an Ace up your sleeve.

  14. #2434

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    That why I say if so, Big Mom would have no agency at all. She was misguided! She knows no better! She is a 68 year old woman....that has never understood the implications of her actions. Now she turns good not through her own development but the influence of others.
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  15. #2435
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by desa View Post
    I'm pretty sure Oda was trying a more complex villain with Doffly. Rocinante's word are either an infortunate wording a subtlety in translation.
    Maybe. But even so, he didn't want to commit to the end.

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  16. #2436

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by desa View Post
    That seems more like a discussion for the Dressrosa or Tottland thread but I disagree on that.

    If we were to not see the Doffly's commanders shape him there is no way we would see the commanders being the ones to overeact every opportunity in his childhood like burning the city for making Doffly fall. And they were always reminding him of being royalty all the time.

    You add that to the trauma of crucifiction, seeing Homy admit he was wrong on the phone and seeing his brother starve and mother die and I really really doubt that the point of all that was simply Doffly is evil.
    Its hard to say weither he was or not cause no matter what (will have to wait for Greg to give confirmation if its the same in Japanese raws), but its brought up here because besides being more general discussions someone else brought this up.

    Its hard not to take Corazon words at face value and not agree with him, no matter how people try to separate it Cora grew up in the same environment as Dolfa, suffered the same kind of trauma like being hanged and watching his mother die, he didn't hear the call but thats more so on the WN cause even Homing he admitted he was wrong and wished/tried to get the Nobles to save Homings family, he heard Dolfa words blaming Homing for their problems and Homing himself apologizing to both for being a bad father.

    No one in the world would know Dolfa better then his own Brother and by his own words he was born evil which says alot considering what he did for Law. Oda really didn't paint Cora as being wrong in that assessment and Oda paints Cora in a positive and right light (at least as a person). So even then if this is true you can say Oda straddled the line and played both options leaving for debate on weither he was truly evil or not.

    But the main point wasn't even if Dolfa was born evil or not cause either way there is a clear difference between how between Mother Caramel (somewhat Strus) and the Executives here.

    Their was no nefarious exploitation/intent to use Dolfa for their own good like Mother Caramel with the executives to throw him away nor did they in my mind change his world view.

    Trebol didn't use Dolfa to get all the riches in the world, Vergo didn't use Dolfa to raise the ranks in the Marines, Pika didn't use Dolfa to get all the best stones in the world, they never used him to accomplish what they wanted too.

    They believed in Dolfa that he was chosen by the heavens to be something great, they gave him power for vengeance (even though I believe this power did nothing to change Dolfa and even without them he would have found his own way to power), they did everything they could do to support and help him even not caring if they died for him and caused would punish to those/things that disrespected him in there eyes he was family and a King. Dolfa already viewed himself as being a higher being with his time as a child with the WN.


    That wasn't the case for Big Mom and Mother Caramel, she had ill intent and exploited Big Mom and the other children for her own gain with selling them; Big Mom in her current state didn't have her current attitudes until she meet up with Mother Caramel. Cause before she a naive misguided kid with sorta of a good heart (like she didn't mean to hurt the fishman or kill the bear)

    She did everything to keep Big Mom happy and enable her instead of being a good parent for her own gain to exploit her and thats has had such an effect on Big Mom it shaped her as a person, her dream and how she handles things, so much so that a simple picture of her being broken has brought her to tears like no other time before.

    Mother Caramel is at the center of Big Mom.

    At first Strus was the same not wanting her to go to waste, maybe in the future he began to care for Linlin and her wishes.


    Even if Dolfa wasn't born evil, the difference in how the monster was created between Dolfa and Big Mom makes all the difference.

    The two aren’t painted the same in my mind even if Dolfa wasn’t born evil.
    Last edited by Lord Monkey D.; February 13th, 2018 at 12:15 PM.

  17. #2437

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    I always interpreted Rocinante's comment as his flawed conclusion to what made Doffy.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Monkey D. View Post
    Its hard not to take Corazon words at face value and not agree with him, no matter how people try to separate it Cora grew up in the same environment as Dolfa, suffered the same kind of trauma like being hanged and watching his mother die, he didn't hear the call but thats more so on the WN cause even Homing he admitted he was wrong and wished/tried to get the Nobles to save Homings family, he heard Dolfa words blaming Homing for their problems and Homing himself apologizing to both for being a bad father.
    As mentioned above, two people growing in the same environment and having complete opposite effects on them isn't a ridiculous idea, the same way people develop traumas while others do not.

    No one in the world would know Dolfa better then his own Brother and by his own words he was born evil which says alot considering what he did for Law. Oda really didn't paint Cora as being wrong in that assessment and Oda paints Cora in a positive and right light (at least as a person). So even then if this is true you can say Oda straddled the line and played both options leaving for debate on weither he was truly evil or not.
    To me it seems that Rocinante knew Mango the least. He escaped the family when he was young, he pretended to be a mute. It is clear that Rocinante had already decided what his views on Mango were and made everything possible to not associate with them. As he told the executives when they were fighting.

    Their was no nefarious exploitation/intent to use Dolfa for their own good like Mother Caramel with the executives to throw him away nor did they in my mind change his world view.
    The executives definitely used Mango to assert power for themselves. They knew he had conqueror's haki and banked that he would be someone important. Trebol facilitated his finals steps to ~the evil side~ and then his executives nurtured that negative view by destroying towns and doing Mango's bidding.

    That wasn't the case for Big Mom and Mother Caramel, she had ill intent and exploited Big Mom and the other children for her own gain with selling them; Big Mom in her current state didn't have her current attitudes until she meet up with Mother Caramel. Cause before she a naive misguided kid with sorta of a good heart (like she didn't mean to hurt the fishman or kill the bear)
    We can keep focusing on the past, but as Big Mom grew the methods she has employed to achieve her dream were not based on Mother Carmel's fake dream. Having a library full of sentient beings for her amusement, forcing islands to manufacture for her lest they be destroyed. The abuse she gave Chiffon, how she prevented her children's fathers to be part of their lives. How she sent Cracker to kill Pound for no reason.
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  18. #2438

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by desa View Post
    We gloss over Hachi past actions quite easily soI could see something similar where we just don't mention that stuff that's to bad and explain away as Big Mom just being misguided.
    Robby hinted at before regarding Hachi. He was neither the initiator, nor did he enjoy openly what he was doing. He was someone who grew up Arlong and out of loyalty he followed him and protected his nakama. He never actively took part in anything that can be called outright evil, compared to enjoy taking a life and an eye of someone for example.

    Mr2s first introduction was as a friend to Luffy, Usopp and Chopper. Then he did something questionable as a mercenary of a kind, then did something good again.
    Robin is the same way, from the get-go she was introduced as an ambiguous character.

    The degree and context is completely different.

  19. #2439
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Monkey D. View Post
    Its hard not to take Corazon words at face value and not agree with him, no matter how people try to separate it Cora grew up in the same environment as Dolfa, suffered the same kind of trauma like being hanged and watching his mother die, he didn't hear the call but thats more so on the WN cause even Homing he admitted he was wrong and wished/tried to get the Nobles to save Homings family, he heard Dolfa words blaming Homing for their problems and Homing himself apologizing to both for being a bad father.

    No one in the world would know Dolfa better then his own Brother and by his own words he was born evil which says alot considering what he did for Law. Oda really didn't paint Cora as being wrong in that assessment and Oda paints Cora in a positive and right light (at least as a person). So even then if this is true you can say Oda straddled the line and played both options leaving for debate on weither he was truly evil or not.
    Rocinante left Doffly after h killed his father and was raised by a marine. Doffly continue and be pushed by the same people that help him kill his dad and wanted him to rule the world. I get why Rocinante would have that opinion of the guy that last time he saw him killed his father and has been hanging with the same crew from back then. It doesn't erase all the writing that came after Rocinante declaration. It's not like it was the last thing we learned. Oda did give us more after and I doubt having the flashback that insist on the traumas of Doffla were just for fun.


    Their was no nefarious exploitation/intent to use Dolfa for their own good like Mother Caramel with the executives to throw him away nor did they in my mind change his world view.
    Would you say Carmel changed Big Mom world view?


    That wasn't the case for Big Mom and Mother Caramel, she had ill intent and exploited Big Mom and the other children for her own gain with selling them; Big Mom in her current state didn't have her current attitudes until she meet up with Mother Caramel. Cause before she a naive misguided kid with sorta of a good heart (like she didn't mean to hurt the fishman or kill the bear)
    She spent 1 year with Carmel where all she did was enable her(which the commanders did for Doffly). Heck she even corrected her on assuming wathever other race were wrong when she tried to correct them. ANd she both died and got expelled due to Big Mom following her instincts rather than her instructions.


    She did everything to keep Big Mom happy and enable her instead of being a good parent for her own gain to exploit her and thats has had such an effect on Big Mom it shaped her as a person, her dream and how she handles things, so much so that a simple picture of her being broken has brought her to tears like no other time before.
    But that was Big Mom interpretation to what she told her.

    Even if Dolfa wasn't born evil, the difference in how the monster was created between Dolfa and Big Mom makes all the difference.
    I would say Doffly was bad and got encouraged to keep this worldview while Big Mom was a kid that never learned boundaries(thanks to her strength) and grew up to feel entitled to everything.

    The two arent painted the same in my mind even if Dolfa wasnt born evil.
    I would say Dofla is evil and Big Mom is entitled.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by MiyamotoMusashi View Post
    Robby hinted at before regarding Hachi. He was neither the initiator, nor did he enjoy openly what he was doing. He was someone who grew up Arlong and out of loyalty he followed him and protected his nakama. He never actively took part in anything that can be called outright evil, compared to enjoy taking a life and an eye of someone for example.
    He was one the leaders of a 10 year enslavement of an island I would not call that trivial and Oda's way of washing it away was some mini stories and Nami deciding was meh he wasn't so bad. As long as you a scene where Luffy acknoledge Big Mom as no being to bad it will just be ok. Maybe something about not hating Lola anymore but the islands won't get any focus.

    Don't mess with the Law if you don't have an Ace up your sleeve.

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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    One thing I would like to say about how events are portrayed positively/negatively is that all the gold the SHs "stole" from Skypeia came from the stomach of Nola (the giant snake), so I doubt anyone missed it very much.

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