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Thread: Funimation DVD Discussion IV (Please Check First Post for FAQ)

  1. #3081

    Default Re: Funimation DVD Discussion IV (Please Check First Post for FAQ)

    I still do stand by that much, as said before, that the death threats on both sides need to stop. If anything, I do think Monica Rial is right to have lawyers involved because of that.

  2. #3082

    Default Re: Funimation DVD Discussion IV (Please Check First Post for FAQ)

    Man, this community has never been particularly civil, but this is new heights. Extremism in politics (on both sides) reaches every community--even anime.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    I should say, too, that everyone wants proof. The question is what to do when proof isn't attainable. Funimation isn't a court of law. If their employees come to them with complaints, they should listen to those complaints and act as they see fit. If the environment has become too toxic for him to work in and many of his coworkers hate him (and some of them accuse him of abuse or harassment), it's probably for the best they don't call him back, regardless of the truth of the allegations.

  3. #3083

    Default Re: Funimation DVD Discussion IV (Please Check First Post for FAQ)

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    General rule. When one woman comes forward, give the benefit of the doubt, it might just be crazy person going after a celebrity. When five or ten or dozens comes forward? And co-workers? Believe the victims.
    Umm... No? A story doesn't get MORE proven when MORE people say something, a story gets MORE proven when the consistency of the stories align. and/or other evidence is presented

    I could just as quickly say he touched me. Great a whole new story BELIEVE ME I'M A VICTIM


    cept I've never touched him before. But now I've added to the numbers of people accusing him - even though I admitted I just lied [Or various stories got scrutinized and debunked] Does that make it more true or not? If more people have "stories" those stories and general M.O should be consistent, shouldn't they? Then how come when we look at these stories in depth they fall apart? They completely collapse under further scrutiny. And as NICE as it would be to say "BELIEVE THE VICTIMS"

    You've made several assumptions.
    1: that they're actually Victims.

    2: That somehow adding a few potential LIARS to a story somehow makes the story more valid.

    Argument over, now everyone drop it.
    The only argument is a demand for actual evidence or proof. So far NONE. Just stories. That's now enough to condemn a person

    especially when we’re talking court of law (which this is not, by the way)
    In the Beginning there was the Word [LOGOS] and it was with God.

    I spoke earlier about the civics and philosophy of the founding principles. There is Platonic and Socratic philosophy behind this nation (The founders read Greek and Latin) The LOGOS that binds this land. The law of the land is more than a government law. It is an appeal to a higher power - God, YWHW, The Land itself, Natural Law [written with Caps], The Matrix, Akashic Records, ALLAH, Truth, The Buddhist Ideal whatever. It is the WORD it is held to similar importance.

    It also applies to the court of public opinion. - This is why our government is beholden to the constitution, and it's so damn hard to ratify or amend it. What these people are accusing Vic of is a CRIMINAL OFFENSE with massive career, and life ending repercussions. So you know what? We will Treat this just like any other case in the court of law. You don't get to scream foul on somebody and then get away with it because technically you're not in a courtroom. That's the same absurd shit that started witch-hunts. It goes against our principles as a nation. A proxy court is still a court. Much like Citizen's arrest is still an arrest The court has a Jury of peers for this very reason. The government is run by your PEERS for a reason - The LOGOS that binds our government also applies to all of us then. We didn't even have a centralized police, fire-department or military for the longest time because of this peer principle. You can end the argument here, I will as well. I have other work to do.

    Innocent until proven guilty.
    “When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say”

  4. #3084
    Discovered Stowaway Riddler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Funimation DVD Discussion IV (Please Check First Post for FAQ)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chopperrules View Post
    Yeah, no, this argument does nothing and is just another person with a biased opinion of him.
    How is it biased when Robby actually knows both the guy and some of his victims? Seems to me like he has a lot more personal evidence to base his opinions on then most people on this forum, including you.

    I agree that it's easy these days to create a mob mentality online, but come on, what kind of evidence are you looking for? It's pretty hard or downright impossible to create physical evidence of having been sexually abused so it's a little ridiculous of RJ Returns to ask where the evidence is. What are the victims of sexual abuse supposed to do if they weren't lucky enough to be filmed or photographed at the right moment? Are they just supposed to shut up and keep quiet since they can't physically prove their allegations? Seems a little fucked up and is pretty much the reason why most of these victims don't dare to speak out or file allegations. Also, you know, witnesses count as evidence, too. There would be no point in interviewing witnesses in court otherwise, right? So why ignore all these people, co-workers etc. speaking out against Vic? Is it so much more reasonable to believe in some big conspiracy where everybody ad their mother is out for this guys blood? Ever heard of Occam's razor? Because that is definitely not the logical conclusion, as much as you might want to frame it so.

    Also, all of this said, as I far as I know, Vic Mignogna is not being tried for any of this right now, correct? So any big speeches about the foundations of our justice system and "innocent until proven guilty" don't really apply at all. Funimation is a company and this guy worked for them. If ten employees speak out against their one co-worker and state he sexually abused them, plus there are a dozen more people claiming he sexually abused them too at a convention where the guy represented the company he works for, it's really more than reasonable for the company to side against the one single employee who is being accused of all this crap. There is nothing cowardly or premature about that decision.

  5. #3085

    Default Re: Funimation DVD Discussion IV (Please Check First Post for FAQ)

    I already said my piece about Robby's comment in my reply to him.

    I'm not discrediting Robby, but I'm also not willing to believe his accounts are argument-ending "evidence" because there is an emotional bias and perception he has toward the man clearly, and I'm also not willing to believe his friends are all 100% truthful. That is a lot to expect for me to just believe everyone because "they said so."

  6. #3086

    Default Re: Funimation DVD Discussion IV (Please Check First Post for FAQ)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chopperrules View Post
    I already said my piece about Robby's comment in my reply to him.

    I'm not discrediting Robby, but I'm also not willing to believe his accounts are argument-ending "evidence" because there is an emotional bias and perception he has toward the man clearly, and I'm also not willing to believe his friends are all 100% truthful. That is a lot to expect for me to just believe everyone because "they said so."
    I get this. What I don't get is how the sheer number of "she said so"s don't add up to make them a little more credible in your mind. When it's one or two allegations, I totally agree about maybe not assuming they're totally valid and true. But when it's dozens and some of those are from coworkers and people close to him... I just don't get how you can discount those so easily.

    --


    Despite the disagreement here, credit to you for being mostly civil and way more credible than this other bozo.

  7. #3087
    Button Pusher Shift's Avatar
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    Default Re: Funimation DVD Discussion IV (Please Check First Post for FAQ)

    RJ, it seems to me that your feelings are getting in the way of your ability to be civil. I'm gonna have you sit out for a few days and see if you can calm yourself.



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  8. #3088

    Default Re: Funimation DVD Discussion IV (Please Check First Post for FAQ)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shift View Post
    RJ, it seems to me that your feelings are getting in the way of your ability to be civil. I'm gonna have you sit out for a few days and see if you can calm yourself.
    Good decision. He was getting out of hand. I wouldn't ban ChopperRules, though.

  9. #3089

    Default Re: Funimation DVD Discussion IV (Please Check First Post for FAQ)

    Guy being let go for repeated cases inappropriate behaviour.

    Seems like a weird choice for a hill to die on

  10. #3090

    Default Re: Funimation DVD Discussion IV (Please Check First Post for FAQ)

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    Guy being let go for repeated cases inappropriate behaviour.

    Seems like a weird choice for a hill to die on
    Right? It seems like a cut and dry case to me. If he was being let go for cheek kissing at conventions, then we'd have a worthy debate about the right course of action.

  11. #3091

    Default Re: Funimation DVD Discussion IV (Please Check First Post for FAQ)

    "Innocent until proven guilty" has reached the same level of dishonest bullshit argument as pulling a Godwin.

  12. #3092

    Default Re: Funimation DVD Discussion IV (Please Check First Post for FAQ)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephray View Post
    I get this. What I don't get is how the sheer number of "she said so"s don't add up to make them a little more credible in your mind. When it's one or two allegations, I totally agree about maybe not assuming they're totally valid and true. But when it's dozens and some of those are from coworkers and people close to him... I just don't get how you can discount those so easily.

    --


    Despite the disagreement here, credit to you for being mostly civil and way more credible than this other bozo.
    It's not so much as me wanting to discount the cases, but me just having a hard time understanding how people are so quick to believe everything they hear. I just...lack trust, I guess. Maybe that says a lot about the kind of life I've led and people can make counterarguments there as well against me I suppose. Maybe part of the problem is just hearing stuff over the internet, which takes away a lot of the emotional aspect to it. If I met these woman, including Monica Rial, in real life maybe it would be easier to believe them.

    Even so, I understand nothing I say is going to change what has happened or the court of public opinion here. I get it. I really wanted to let it drop today but it seems I keep getting back into it on impulse.

    I would not really mind a few days ban to be honest. At least I would have some distance to cool off hopefully. I leave that to the mod's discretion though.

  13. #3093
    The Mad Moiselle BellisarioFaith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Funimation DVD Discussion IV (Please Check First Post for FAQ)

    I don't feel like writing another long essay, and if I tried to argue back against all the heaps and heaps of defenses against Vic in here, it would probably take multiple thousands of words when this has already spiraled so much. So I'll just say this:

    To reiterate: if we went by "innocent until proven guilty" to fire someone, then very, very few of these sexual predators and harassers would ever actually be fired, because again, there usually is not that kind of proof. Because these guys are too smart to let there be actual DNA evidence (and apparently photographic evidence would not be enough because the victims would just be accused of "photoshopping it" or some junk like that). If we waited until proven guilty, these guys would continue to get away with it and hurt countless more victims until maybe, finally, someone manages to get something that could actually stick. But then, again, defenders would just claim "It could be faked! They could be lying! That's not enough proof!"

    FUNI absolutely made the right decision to let him go. If they had immediately done so at the absolute first accusation, without conducting an investigation of any kind? Yes, that would be jumping the gun and would be bullshit. Again, they did this after conducting an investigation, and after numerous accounts have come out. If you continue to employ someone like that, after this many people have come forward to say something about it, don't you see how this could be incredibly damaging? How many voice actors and actresses would probably not want to work with a company that clearly doesn't take their claims seriously and doesn't care enough about their safety to fire someone who has made numerous employees of theirs feel unsafe and uncomfortable? They would pretty much be sacrificing a bunch of their other VAs, not to mention their reputation as a company, by defending one man who is fairly obviously shady.

    And, for the record, I am saying all of this as someone who met Vic at a con, has a picture with him that is on this very forum and could be found by anyone, who was not harassed by him in any way at this con (he was actually quite polite to me, in fact) despite my slight wariness since I had vaguely heard that female fans should be careful around him, and who has no personal reason at all to be biased against him. If anything, I would be biased in his favor (since he voices the main character of my favorite animanga series), and when this whole thing first started, I read his apology/defense and was open to the idea that maybe it wasn't true, and didn't want it to be true because it would make me sad (and fairly disgusted that I paid money for a picture with someone like him). But again, after seeing this many different accounts from this many different people (not just the posts linked here, but also the comments in a lot of said posts), if I sincerely still believed that Vic may be innocent, and tried to defend him...there is just absolutely no way in hell I could do that without being in deep denial.

    But, at any rate, interested to see whom they cast as Sabo this time. I've also been meaning to watch the dub of JJBA: DiU, but haven't done so yet and thus haven't heard him as Rohan, but that's another one where I'm interested in seeing what happens with it.
    Hidden:

  14. #3094

    Default Re: Funimation DVD Discussion IV (Please Check First Post for FAQ)

    Quote Originally Posted by BellisarioFaith View Post
    (and apparently photographic evidence would not be enough because the victims would just be accused of "photoshopping it" or some junk like that).
    There is actual evidence posted earlier of people who went out of there way to attempt to photoshop pictures. This is something that is unfortunate but very realistic. But your point on this one doesn't stand. There are numerous ways for officials to tell if a picture is legitimate or not.

  15. #3095
    Discovered Stowaway Riddler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Funimation DVD Discussion IV (Please Check First Post for FAQ)

    Quote Originally Posted by RJ Returns View Post
    Umm... No? A story doesn't get MORE proven when MORE people say something, a story gets MORE proven when the consistency of the stories align. and/or other evidence is presented

    I could just as quickly say he touched me. Great a whole new story BELIEVE ME I'M A VICTIM


    cept I've never touched him before. But now I've added to the numbers of people accusing him - even though I admitted I just lied [Or various stories got scrutinized and debunked] Does that make it more true or not? If more people have "stories" those stories and general M.O should be consistent, shouldn't they? Then how come when we look at these stories in depth they fall apart? They completely collapse under further scrutiny. And as NICE as it would be to say "BELIEVE THE VICTIMS"

    You've made several assumptions.
    1: that they're actually Victims.

    2: That somehow adding a few potential LIARS to a story somehow makes the story more valid.



    The only argument is a demand for actual evidence or proof. So far NONE. Just stories. That's now enough to condemn a person



    In the Beginning there was the Word [LOGOS] and it was with God.

    I spoke earlier about the civics and philosophy of the founding principles. There is Platonic and Socratic philosophy behind this nation (The founders read Greek and Latin) The LOGOS that binds this land. The law of the land is more than a government law. It is an appeal to a higher power - God, YWHW, The Land itself, Natural Law [written with Caps], The Matrix, Akashic Records, ALLAH, Truth, The Buddhist Ideal whatever. It is the WORD it is held to similar importance.

    It also applies to the court of public opinion. - This is why our government is beholden to the constitution, and it's so damn hard to ratify or amend it. What these people are accusing Vic of is a CRIMINAL OFFENSE with massive career, and life ending repercussions. So you know what? We will Treat this just like any other case in the court of law. You don't get to scream foul on somebody and then get away with it because technically you're not in a courtroom. That's the same absurd shit that started witch-hunts. It goes against our principles as a nation. A proxy court is still a court. Much like Citizen's arrest is still an arrest The court has a Jury of peers for this very reason. The government is run by your PEERS for a reason - The LOGOS that binds our government also applies to all of us then. We didn't even have a centralized police, fire-department or military for the longest time because of this peer principle. You can end the argument here, I will as well. I have other work to do.

    Innocent until proven guilty.
    Dude, no offense, I'm not trying to be mean-spirited or call you names or anything, but you come across like a rambling maniac. Might tone it down a bit, you know?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chopperrules
    I'm not discrediting Robby, but I'm also not willing to believe his accounts are argument-ending "evidence" because there is an emotional bias and perception he has toward the man clearly, and I'm also not willing to believe his friends are all 100% truthful. That is a lot to expect for me to just believe everyone because "they said so."
    First of all, I want to second Zephray said, it's nice to have people stay civil in such an argument. I hope you don't feel like you are being pummeled on because you have the minority opinion.

    However.

    Could you please elaborate on what kind of evidence you are demanding here? You must be aware that sexual abuse is very, very hard to prove physically. So what are the victims supposed to do if they don't have a photo that proves their accusations are true or something similar? Are they supposed to keep quiet? Or are they supposed to speak up but not expect any repercussions for their abuser, because they lack physical proof? There seem to be tons of eye witnesses that all support the accusations labeled against Vic Mignogna, and as I said earlier, witnesses count as evidence, too. The simple thing is this: if you simply accuse each and every single person accusing or speaking out against this guy as being biased, you are not only not going to find the actual truth, you are actively trying to ignore and deny it. I just wonder what it would take for you to change your opinion here. You must at least admit that all signs really, really strongly point to him being guilty.
    Last edited by Riddler; February 12th, 2019 at 01:19 PM.

  16. #3096

    Default Re: Funimation DVD Discussion IV (Please Check First Post for FAQ)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chopperrules View Post
    There is actual evidence posted earlier of people who went out of there way to attempt to photoshop pictures. This is something that is unfortunate but very realistic. But your point on this one doesn't stand. There are numerous ways for officials to tell if a picture is legitimate or not.
    And the photoshopper has been exposed as being a pro-Mignogna inflitrant. Nice self-own.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    *dozens of testimonies and pictures from different women over the span of two decades*

    "It's a he said/she said situation. We have to be fair. Innocent until proven guilty!"

    *one obviously bullshit attempt at faking evidence*

    "This is convincing. Vic is exonerated."

  17. #3097

    Default Re: Funimation DVD Discussion IV (Please Check First Post for FAQ)

    I did touch on it a bit before but it was probably lost in everything. If there's one thing the guy who was banned said that I agree with, consistency is one thing.

    Okay, so just to clarify again, I'm not a believer that Vic is 100% innocent. I am positive that some misconduct occurred. I'm also willing to believe that the guy acted like an asshole at cons, because let's face it, some people get on power trips. The thing is, while it is too much to expect photo evidence in this case (and as Zephray did say, mabe FUNi should consider more cameras in things like elevators, I dunno, where these types of things are more likely to occur.), the problem I'm having is that during the supposed last several decades that have been going on, apparently FUNi has never once had any issues or done anything about it until all of a sudden now. It makes the entire situation very shady. So yes, that's the biggest issue I have. The timing of everything, and how fast this supposed "investigation" went down. Everything happened too fast for me to be comfortable with it.

    At the very least, I would like to see that were were civil charges or something pressed in the past. A sign other than just word of mouth that this has in fact been an ongoing issue. Not, "So-and-so had this happen 10 years ago." If it were just one or two cases, I can see the argument hold weight about the victims not coming forward, but when it's this many cases, it's hard for me to believe that out of all those people no one attempted to file any charges in the past. And why was FUNi apparently okay with these allegations until just last week? There's just so much not adding up that casts doubt on the whole situation for me. So yes, if the situation had progressed a bit more gradually then it probably would be easier for me to believe all of these reports, but the timing of it is what casts doubt in my mind.

    And, well, I do appreciate the (mostly) civil responses. I ask myself why I usually find myself in the minority opinion. It seems like I find myself in the minority more often than I intend to be, lol.

    @Kaiolino - Your sarcastic remark, however, disappoints me.

  18. #3098
    Discovered Stowaway Riddler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Funimation DVD Discussion IV (Please Check First Post for FAQ)

    He has a point though. Dozens of people's testimonies don't prove anything and we shouldn't make a leap of judgment, but one faked photo is enough to proclaim that probably a lot of them are fake? That just seems like backwards logic and you believing what you want to believe and denying everything else.

  19. #3099

    Default Re: Funimation DVD Discussion IV (Please Check First Post for FAQ)

    Except you guys are grossly jumping to the conclusion I said that one example meant he was completely innocent. Are you guys just selectively reading my posts now? Probably, from the looks of it. Also, there are more than one cases of the photoshopping. Outside of that one case, as already posted, there is an example of a toxic group where at least some individuals (luckily the mode was civil about it) intended to photoshop pictures to make Vic look bad. It's more than one case, and it's just another example of showing how toxic people are being about the whole thing.

    There are many red flags in the case that have been eluded to. They've already been brought up.

  20. #3100

    Default Re: Funimation DVD Discussion IV (Please Check First Post for FAQ)

    It's that age old question. How many accusations must a man walk down before you can call him a perv. The answer, according to Harvey Weinstein, atleast eighty.

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