What did Luffy say?

[Don_Freecs]

wtf. I've already said I was ironic. Why are you trying to create a shitstorm ? I thought the smiley was clear enough for everyone. and it's not like I was the first one joking on the red-star....

next time I'll be 100% clear and say, ya know "HEY, NO NEED TO WARN ME !!!! JUST JOKING. OKAY ???!!!!!!! "

[SomeRandomGuy]

I'm glad people are finally taking notice of this. Until this topic was brought up others had convinced me it was just the usual pirate king stuff. I remember bringing this up a few times along with Shanks' words but since it wasn't a hot topic with anyone I just went with the flow.

Still there was no way I could accept that the words Roger and Luffy shared was "I'm gonna find a crew thats better than yours and find the greatest treasure ever!" We do know that Luffy and Shanks had a ton of off panel time together, what with stories about Usopp and listening to the Red Hairs sing Bink's Sake so it will be nice to see another extended flash back from Luffy.

I was always under the impression that Shanks wasn't talking about any one specific phrase and was referring to Luffy's way of speaking in general.

[le crystal]

Making a mental note for this thread in the next AP Awards.

[Australopithecus]

What the heck could Luffy have said that would cause that reaction? Especially since they already know what we already know, that he wants to be the King of Pirates. Which naturally Oda wouldn't have hidden anyway.
So Luffy said something else...

Proof please.

The boys are yelling out their ambitions in front of eachother. Ace goes first, then Luffy takes his turn and...
...Oda cuts away ...and cuts back to Ace and Sabo's reaction of confusion and surprise.

What the heck did that boy say.

First thing that we should be on the same page about is this: it wasn’t Ace that started shouting his ambition: it was Sabo. His ambition was to become a pirate, see the world in all its glory, and write a book about it.

Spoiler:

Following Sabo’s declaration of his ambition, Ace then proceeds to state his own: to become a pirate, to beat every last person who stands in his way, and to earn himself the glory that dreams are made off.

Spoiler:

In both instances, their desire was to become a pirate.

Following Ace’s declaration of ambition, Luffy then proceeds to shout his own. ‘Induction’ suggests that what Luffy shouted was his ambition to become a pirate as well, given the fact that such an ambition was exactly what the two before him did declare.

Spoiler:

Also notice how he shouted ‘I’m gonna’. He did it with raised arms. That’s usually the stance that is drawn by the author when Luffy shouts his dream of becoming the Pirate King. And when he does so, he practically always precedes it with his famous opening line ‘I’m gonna’. So these are good reasons to think that what he shouted was his dream of becoming the Pirate King.

Spoiler:

Luffy’s brothers then react in great stupefaction at what was said. One of the things that would surely cause such a reaction is his declaration of his dream to become the Pirate King. It was shown to elicit a similar, if not a stronger, reaction from most people. So, it is reasonable to believe such a conclusion, especially with the given arguments I have just provided.

Spoiler:

After that, Sabo & Ace begin finding the intention of becoming ‘captain’ a problem to them since all three of them share it. This means that what had been just shared by Luffy was the intention of becoming ‘captain’. Given both this and the past repeated declarations of Luffy to become ‘pirate’, it logically follows that what Luffy desired to become was a ‘pirate captain’. That’s partially what was said there.

Spoiler:

At the coliseum of Dressrosa, Barto told Sabo that Luffy is the future ‘Pirate King’, and Sabo said that he has known that since a long time ago. In other words, Luffy told Sabo his dream of becoming the Pirate King sometime in the past, and the time you linked us to provides the perfect setting for such a declaration to be revealed, given both the fact that Luffy hasn’t seen Sabo ever since that time he was supposedly killed & the strong suggestions that what he shouted in that place was his ambition to become a ‘pirate captain’.

Spoiler:

There is nothing odd in the author’s omission of Luffy’s words regarding his declaration of his ambition. That is a literary device called ‘ellipsis’. You omit a certain event(s), and let the reader fill out the gap as he or she reads the story. It could be used either to save time or for stylistic reasons. I believe it was the latter.

If he did indeed say something else, it should then be an addition to that, not a substitution for it.

--

Concerning the argument that what Luffy said here meant becoming Pirate King, that’s not true.

What luffy said there is that he’d be ‘a great pirate’, and he preceded it with ‘I’m gonna be stronger than anybody’.

If being stronger than anybody meant being the Pirate King, then, by this logic, Whitebeard should have ruled the Grand Line as the next Pirate King after Roger, given that he was considered by everyone (including & especially by the author himself) as the ‘Strongest Man in the World’, but he wasn’t a Pirate King, despite reigning supreme in terms of strength.

Spoiler:

When Doflamingo was being taken into Impel Down by a naval ship, he said that Whitebeard never took Roger’s throne, but instead ruled in front of it.

Spoiler:

This proves that standing supreme in terms of strength does NOT make a person Pirate King. Being the Pirate King means far more than just being stronger than anyone.

[Razh]

On a second thought, gotta go with Don here, lock the thread.

[Femme]

can't say you don't deserve it. you're trying to create drama out of nothing with this inferiority complex of yours. mk's observation is mysterious and strong enough to have it's own thread, the main character had a very important line obscured for reasons we don't know.

did you even try to make a thread about something interesting and someone stopped you because you lack the holy red star?

wtf. I've already said I was ironic. Why are you trying to create a shitstorm ? I thought the smiley was clear enough for everyone. and it's not like I was the first one joking on the red-star....

next time I'll be 100% clear and say, ya know "HEY, NO NEED TO WARN ME !!!! JUST JOKING. OKAY ???!!!!!!! "

Let's calm down now, please, you two.

[Fraco]

could it be, maybe, possibly, that ace's face is somehow related to him being the actual son of the pirate king. just saying..

[SomeRandomGuy]

There is nothing odd in the author’s omission of Luffy’s words regarding his declaration of his ambition. That is a literary device called ‘ellipsis’. You omit a certain event(s), and let the reader fill out the gap as he or she reads the story. It could be used either to save time or for stylistic reasons. I believe it was the latter.

Yep, pretty much this.

Although personally I think it was done to save time. A literary version of "I'M GONNA (etc, ect)." He's said it so much by this point that superfluously repeating it in a flashback only waters down it's meaning, so Oda probably just skipped it since we've heard it all before.

[Razh]

Knowing how Oda sometimes omits important information from dialogues or makes characters hold things to themselves, you simply can't discount the possibility that Luffy's lines contained more than his usual PK mantra.

You know, it would be one or two panels more at most.

[Don_Freecs]

yeah, that's very true, but the only argument for this situation so far is "It's suspicious." which is okay, but not very solid.

I've asked several times "What could he have said ?". And the only thing that seems bigger than that is what Dragon seems to want and there is no way Sabo would laugh at "I want a world where everyone is free", same for Ace, he just wouldn't act like that.


But what seems legit to ask ourselves is "what did he say to Shanks ? ", since it cannot be "I want to be the pirate king". But whatev, don't get why he wouldn't have tell his crewmates. That's okay for Sabo, Ace and Garp since there weren't involved in the current story.

[Bigivel]

Didn't you noticed? That was the first time Lufy said it! The first time of all the many, and the first time he got that motivation. It was the origin, and it was special, different from all the rest, and so its presentation was also different and so much more impactful, and just for the fact it wasn't shown, but omitted.

[evelyne]

this thread: people trying to make Luffy a complex character while he is just a dumb and naive main shonen character.

Didn't you noticed? That was the first time Lufy said it! The first time of all the many, and the first time he got that motivation. It was the origin, and it was special, different from all the rest, and so its presentation was also different and so much more impactful, and just for the fact it wasn't shown, but omitted.

going with this. Although he already said it infront of Shanks and his crew in the first chapter. But it was more of an arrogant speech towards Shanks.

[Kdom]

For me the "same thing" Shanks is talking about is referring to the scene from chapter 1 ie Luffy wants something like the strongest crew and biggest treasure. After all this is the speech which made Shanks give Roger's hat to Luffy.

[Robby]

This is the same author that hid Sabo's entire existence in plain sight with that third sake cup always being there.

There was no reason for him to cut away simply to hide the phrase "I'm going to be king of the pirates!" It takes zero extra time to say it, and Luffy has said it so much and so often there was no reason to be coy or special about it.

It was absolutely something else.

this thread: people trying to make Luffy a complex character while he is just a dumb and naive main shonen character.

Luffy's a dummy but he's got some nuance and depth in him he doesn't show or mention very often except when it comes up. He wears his emotions on his sleeve, but doesn't talk about his past, or take interest in anyone else's.

Like... everything related to his family so far has only been brought up when it actually comes up with Garp or Sabo actually appearing in front of him.

For me the "same thing" Shanks is talking about is referring to the scene from chapter 1 ie Luffy wants something like the strongest crew and biggest treasure. After all this is the speech which made Shanks give Roger's hat to Luffy.

Tons of pirates say they want the strongest crew and biggest treasure. Hell, even Don Krieg said as much.

There is NOTHING special about that worth betting the future (and your arm) on that would make Shanks take special notice or be excited about. Especially coming from a naive 8 year old.

[Razh]

Maybe he has some deeper goal, maybe not. I always felt there was still a certain mistery to Luffy's character. It might be lifted when we get to see more of his childhood. Like before he ate the fruit. Mom, anyone?

[Robby]

Maybe he has some deeper goal, maybe not. I always felt there was still a certain mistery to Luffy's character. It might be lifted when we get to see more of his childhood. Like before he ate the fruit. Mom, anyone?

I don't think Luffy has a huge attachment to his mother, for all intents and purposes, Dadan filled that role in his life and she fits the descriptions Oda gave of his mother.

Obviously someday we're going to get Dragon's flashback and we'll meet her then, but for how much she actually affects Luffy? That's hard to tell.

Just look at all the new depth and background we've almost out of of nowhere started getting about Sanji. He's been an orphan as far as we've known the entire series, and now instead he has a prestigious family and lots of brothers and sisters. He's never brought it up before now, because it wasn't important. But hey, hidden depth!

[evelyne]

There was no reason for him to cut away simply to hide the phrase "I'm going to be king of the pirates!" It takes zero extra time to say it, and Luffy has said it so much and so often there was no reason to be coy or special about it.

It was absolutely something else.

This is Goa's King all over again. You guys are making something out of proportion based on nothing.

[ARTEMlS]

I agree with those who think that there's more behind these words than simply being PK or something like that. Looking at storytelling structure, every well written
story has to have a big mind-numbing context shifting moment that retrospectively changes absolutely everything (which in OP is heavily foreshadowed to most likely happen at Raftel). I guess whatever Luffy said there will be seen in a completely other light as soon as we finally get that context shift.

Besides, how about we make a sticky topic for these things? Starting with MK's post somewhere in the final villain thread about where he explains his take on the finale. As it's probably one of the best thought-out final theories for OP.

[Don_Freecs]

Didn't you noticed? That was the first time Lufy said it! The first time of all the many, and the first time he got that motivation. It was the origin, and it was special, different from all the rest, and so its presentation was also different and so much more impactful, and just for the fact it wasn't shown, but omitted.

chapter 1 http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/1/48

not the first time then.

Maybe he has some deeper goal, maybe not. I always felt there was still a certain mistery to Luffy's character. It might be lifted when we get to see more of his childhood. Like before he ate the fruit. Mom, anyone?

That was actually what I was talking about when I had pointed out this page
http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/1/23
you know, "where is coming from ? he doesn't live in town ? where is he living ? with who ? alone ? .... "

This is the same author that hid Sabo's entire existence in plain sight with that third sake cup always being there.

There was no reason for him to cut away simply to hide the phrase "I'm going to be king of the pirates!" It takes zero extra time to say it, and Luffy has said it so much and so often there was no reason to be coy or special about it.

It was absolutely something else.

I'm just gonna quote myself "That's okay for Sabo, Ace and Garp since there weren't involved in the current story."
There is a huge difference between hiding a character and interrupting Luffy's catchphrase for stylistic reasons.


And as I said before, there is absolutely nothing more shocking than Luffy saying he's gonna be pirate king. Maybe Dragon's goal is bigger but there is no way he said he wanted to make a world a better place in which everyone could live freely.

[Razh]

I don't think Luffy has a huge attachment to his mother, for all intents and purposes, Dadan filled that role in his life and she fits the descriptions Oda gave of his mother.

Obviously someday we're going to get Dragon's flashback and we'll meet her then, but for how much she actually affects Luffy? That's hard to tell.

Just look at all the new depth and background we've almost out of of nowhere started getting about Sanji. He's been an orphan as far as we've known the entire series, and now instead he has a prestigious family and lots of brothers and sisters. He's never brought it up before now, because it wasn't important. But hey, hidden depth!

I didn't necessarily mean attachment to her. But if she had any kind of role in his life after giving birth to him, she might have imprinted something on him. An idea or some kind of longing that managed to get stuck in his mind for all these years. Something in that sense.