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Thread: Love and Loathe 2: Return of the Analysis

  1. #201
    Champion Worrier Zar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Love and Loathe 2: Return of the Analysis

    Love and Loathe #9
    Jabra






    Here's what you loved about Jabra
    1. Memorable Design. Both his human and wolf forms were praised, the first for being balanced and the second for it's cartoony charm, standing out from the hundreds of werewolves out there.
    2. What would CP9 be without him? Jabra and his fellow not-undercover CP9 agents brought some comedy and emotion to the coldblooded group.
    3. Well-Rounded. Jabra manages to be both funny and threatening, intelligent and strong, competitive and loyal, and so forth. In some ways, his unusually balanced traits is what makes him so memorable.
    Favorite Comment goes to .access_timeco.
    "Jabra is one of my favorite OP characters (and I really mean it. For the longest he was only surpassed by Buggy and Kaku in my list. Sometimes just Buggy). The first thing I liked about him was how his group (him+Kumadori&Fukurou) suddenly made the CP9 a much more interesting group just by being introduced. Up to that point, all the members were just way too serious for a group of OP characters, add to that the fact they all had the same fighting style and dressed the same and the CP9 was shaping up to be the most boring group in the series. Everything changed when the three appeared (after that, Kaku and Califa ate their fruit and went full retard and the group became gold to me). His design is perfect, it is so normal and yet so badass, like KKB said. His hybrid form is almost as good, thanks to it being ridiculously cartoonish. That's also reflected in his personality: he is not over-the-top eccentric, he is a generally sane person with some fun traits. I also like the fact he is such a violent asshole while managing to stay cheerful in some instances (his interactions with Kaku coming to mind). He is also a remnant of the times the character quirks harmonized with their personality as a whole instead of being shoehorned there just for the sake of eccentricity, and the whole (cartoon) wolf theme seem well developed."

    Here's what you loathed about Jabra
    1. Introduced too late. Jabra was such a delight that you wish he'd appeared sooner. He feels a bit like an afterthought on Oda's part.
    2. The Wolf and the Huntsman. While opinions about his fight with Sanji were generally good, the fight felt a bit forced and there should've been a bigger struggle for Sanji.
    3. Give Usopp a chance! He might be weak, but there's two liars about to square off. He should've at least gotten a few shots in on the Big Bad Wolf.
    Favorite Comment goes to Tanuki
    "There wasn't MORE of his group(Jabra, Kumadori, Fukuro) prior to the raid on Enies Lobby. Not sure it'd have worked with their wacky personalities undercover, but all three of them were a hell of a lot more entertaining than Lucci, Kaku, Khalifa and Blueno. Whilst I didn't mind Sanji being Jabra's ultimate rival, it'd have been nice if Usopp had managed to stand his ground a little more against the wolfman using tricks and traps before becoming overwhelmed. Seeing Usopp fight as viciously as he did against Luffy, against Jabra would have made Jabra's overall threat level and battle all the more impressive. Sanji had already been roughed up by Khalifa prior to tangling with Jabra and it's clear very quickly that Sanji is overwhelmingly more powerful than the wolfman very quickly."

    Character/Actions: 3.78

    Design: 4.07

    ~~ RANKINGS: Character ~~
    1. Galdino (4.42)
    2. Rosinante (4.13)
    3. Zoro (4.11)
    4. Jabra (3.78)
    5. Carue (3.75)
    6. Smoker (3.71)
    7. Caesar (3.10)
    8. Conis (2.56)
    9. Alvida (1.94)
    ~~ RANKINGS: Design ~~
    1. Rosinante (4.44)
    2. Caesar (4.28)
    3. Jabra (4.07)
    4. Carue (3.90)
    5. Galdino (3.88)
    6. Smoker (3.73)
    7. Zoro (3.40)
    8. Alvida (2.89)
    9. Conis (2.63)


    And with that, let's present the 10th Character!
    He returned with a boing!



    Bellamy


    To get the whole picture, please tell us the following:

    What are the things that you love about Bellamy?
    What are the things that you loathe about Bellamy?


    At the end please give Bellamy two ratings:

    One for his character & actions in the story.
    One for his look & design.

    These must be between 1 and 5, with 5 being the highest (.5's are acceptable - ex. 1.5 or 4.5).

    This analysis will be open for the next 72 hours.


    Enjoy!

  2. #202

    Default Re: Love and Loathe 2: Return of the Analysis

    Love: I don't.

    Loathe: I do.



    ... ok, I will try a bit harder.

    Love: I believe the one thing I like about Bellamy was the moment people disliked about him: when he stood by Doflamingo's side even when he openly tried to kill Bellamy. Usually this would make the character look pathetic, but the thing with Doflamingo is that everyone always knew he saw his "non family" followers as disposable. Bellamy always knew exactly the terms of their relationship, he always knew exactly where he stood, so he suddenly feeling betrayed when Doflamingo treated him like an object would just make him look hypocritical. That was the sole moment I admired Bellamy.
    I also think he flawlessly did his job being absolutely hateful in Jaya, and I say that as a good thing.

    Loathe: Definitely his design. His original design was bland, but whatever... his post-timeskip one, though... I just hate it with a passion.
    Personality wise I think he also suffered from his reformation. Character development is always a good thing, I guess, but in his case I think he went from a very memorable honest-to-god asshole (who I believe I would end up liking) to... a forgettable half-assed cool guy!? I mean, his original personality was very clear and had clear defining traits, something I think his new one lacks entirely.

    Character: 2 (3 for Jaya. 1 for Dressrosa)
    Design: 1

    FC 0147-0584-2654

  3. #203
    Division Commander Daz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Love and Loathe 2: Return of the Analysis

    Oh man, my schedule for the next 72 hours is jam packed, but I WILL make time for a Bellamy dissection goddammit!!!!

  4. #204

    Default Re: Love and Loathe 2: Return of the Analysis

    Love: Let's not kick a dog that is already dead okay? Let's see....Spring DF looks fun, I guess.

    Loathe: No. He is not the next strawhat.

    Design: 2.5

    Character: 1.5
    Spoiler:
    Original Stories:
    Hybrid
    Four Swords

  5. #205

    Default Re: Love and Loathe 2: Return of the Analysis

    Love: His desire to get stronger, and succeeding. When he was defeated by Luffy, he did not let that stop him. He desired to get stronger and overcome this man that defeated him. He got strong enough to face Luffy again and, when defeated a second time, he accepted defeat. His pride intact by not joining Luffy's fleet, he accepted the vivre card, cementing his place as one of Luffy's rival. His strength and willpower are truly admirable qualities.

    Loathe: His quick defeat. He was built up to be a proper arc villain in every way, and right as he was showing his prowess *pop!* he's knocked out swiftly. A sadly quick end to an at-the-time one dimensional but quirky character.

    Design: 2
    Character: 4

  6. #206

    Default Re: Love and Loathe 2: Return of the Analysis

    *reads previous analysis* Oop...looks like I'm considerably more positive than the average AP forum goer about Bellamy.

    Bellamy

    Love
    Usually I despise the 'dark version' of the main protagonists power, but Bellamy's spring devil fruit was always one I felt was unfortunately underutilized during Jaya. If you think about it, the ability to coil up your attacks amplifying your power? Really simple but incredibly useful power. Very cool ability IMO.

    Bellamy is actually...really skilled post timeskip. No; really. Doflamingo for some god forsaken reason doesn't accept Bellamy into his crew despite the fact this dude managed to SOMEHOW break through Bartolomeo's barrier to grab the Strawhats number one fanboy in the collesium round, and had Elizabello not blown everyone out the ring, there's a good chance Bellamy could have come out on top. That's something Gladius and Dellinger could only have dreamt of doing.
    He also is one tough son of a bitch, taking repeated beatings from the collesium battle, Delinger, Doflamingo AND Luffy but still managing to get up. Bellamy managed to obtain armanent haki too, which a lot of the Donquioxte pirates didn't seem to have access to...why the fuck did Doflamingo turn down a guy who was overall more skilled than at least the majority of his officers? Idiot.

    I'm always down for some character growth, but I also ended up liking that Bellamy didn't QUITE go the redemption route we all expected and stuck with his conviction. He knew he'd made a horrible blunder, but he made his bed and now he had to lay in it.

    His Spring Hopper callback in Dressrosa was nice to see, and I liked that Luffy mimicked it to get his first major hit on Doflamingo post Bellamy fight.

    Loathe
    There was NO resolution to Bellamy's story in Dressrosa. Rebecca's story got wrapped up in a nice bow, Kyros was now reunited with his daughter, Violet was now the queen of Dressrosa, Law got to avenge Corazon, Bart/Cavendish/Sai/Leo/etc all got to become part of the Strawhat alliance and Bellamy's grand resolution? Totally skipped over. He says goodbye in a single flashback panel. We don't get Bellamy's thoughts on Luffy managing to defeat the man he'd foolishly looked upto, he doesn't follow Luffy as part of the alliance, he doesn't join Bart's crew despite their odd friendship, he doesn't say what he's going to do next, he just sort of leaves in a single panel taking a piece of Vivre card with him. We don't even get to see Bellamy looking down on Doflamingo after the latter is crushed so he can have his closure. Pretty unsatisfying overall.

    Whilst I think Galdino's eventual redemption was perfectly paced and even now he's not COMPLETELY heroic, Bellamy went from total asshole to gruff nice guy a bit too fast. I feel like a flashback to his adventures on Skypeia and parting ways with Sarsquiss and the rest of his crew would have helped flesh out his new found admiration for 'Pirate Dreams'. I actually like that he has come such a far way, and as a result Bellamy's story was one of the few things in Dressrosa I wanted to read more about. For such a packed arc, you'd of expected it to be touched on more.

    Why does he worship Doflamingo specifically again? It's never really explained. We see him and Sarsquiss approach Doflamingo in a flashback and ask to use his flag but it's never explained WHY Doflamingo is the pirate he admires most.

    Like Alvida, he also suffers from underutilization both in terms of character and fruit ability, although fortunately not to the same extent. Would have been nice to see him catch an opponent between spring coils preventing them from escaping too.

    Character: 3.5/5 There's character development here for sure, it's just half the story seems to be missing, but the glimpses do make me want to find out more about the Hyena.

    Design: 3/5 It's a simple design similar to Zoro, but his mocking face, and hulking appearance makes this similar powered to Luffy individual look different enough he doesn't feel like a lame ass 'dark' Luffy. Other manga would go down that route, and I kind of appreciate that Bellamy was given more than that for his design.
    Last edited by Tanuki; March 20th, 2017 at 06:01 PM.


  7. #207

    Cool Re: Love and Loathe 2: Return of the Analysis

    Love: When he was first introduced, Bellamy was the guy you loved to hate, done right. I absolutely despised the guy and felt amazing once he finally got his comeuppance at Luffy's hands, which speaks to how well he was developed.

    Had his story ended at Doflamingo's hands, he might have been a nice little side character, but with nothing much to remember. But boy, when he came back in Dressrosa, I actually found myself stoked, and that was because he came back a different person. He may not have given up all of his old ways, but it was evident that he learned from his experiences. So while we still got some big personality out of him, we also got to see the results of his two-year timeskip. He may not have won Block B, but he did win my heart back.

    Even though I do share some of the opinions that his role in the later part of the arc was weaker (which I will address later), I could still get behind his reaction to Doflamingo throwing him away and the pride that prevented him from turning on Doffy despite this. It was a nice break from the trope of a guy turning on his master after the master throws him away, which can sometimes get rather overdone.

    Loathe: While I don't think the situation with him post-B Block was entirely bad, the events surrounding it and the fact that it was one of the many parts in the overstuffed story of Dressrosa made it considerably weaker than it should have been. Him attacking Luffy might have worked a lot better had it not been surrounded by a million other events and taken 10 chapters to conclude, which made it look more like a plot tumor than an actual part of the plot. I think it would have been better had Bellamy confronted Luffy and Law before they met Doflamingo, rather than being yet another device to keep Luffy out of a fight while it takes place. There was a lot of potential, but no room for said potential.

    Not only that, but I do have a problem with how he got here in the first place. So he gets the opportunity to take down Luffy as his last shot to becoming an executive...but gets attacked by Dellinger before he gets to do it? Why?

    Finally, Bellamy's brief farewell after being forgotten for over 20 chapters really solidified how Oda never really managed to make him fit in to Dressrosa. I'm really looking forward to seeing what Bellamy will do in the New World, him returning to his old pirate days and letting his cocky personality reign once again would be a lot of fun to see.

    Character: 3/5
    Design: 3.5/5
    Extremely simple, but the guy pulls off the Hyena theme almost as well as Jabra pulls off the wolf theme. I really liked how his post-timeskip design showed how much he had grown while still keeping his basic expressions and demeanor.


    Spoiler:

  8. #208
    Kick-Ass Finalis desa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Love and Loathe 2: Return of the Analysis

    Love: He was a great asshole pirate on Jaya and truly hightlighted the bs on Luffy not being a good guy.

    Loathe: His obsession with Doffly. He truly wants to be part of the family despite Doffly telling him in every way possible that he won't accept him. Sometimes you just have to accept people's choice and move on. He is hypocritical on sticking to Doffly as proven by letting Luffy out of the coliseum. He also became kind of a tsundere wimp and we don't even know what the hell he is going to do now. It is as if Oda started to write something for him on Dressrosa but got bored midway.

    Character:2

    Design:2

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by .access timeco. View Post
    Usually this would make the character look pathetic, but the thing with Doflamingo is that everyone always knew he saw his "non family" followers as disposable. Bellamy always knew exactly the terms of their relationship, he always knew exactly where he stood, so he suddenly feeling betrayed when Doflamingo treated him like an object would just make him look hypocritical.
    I'm fairly sure he was shocked when Dellinger attacked him,asked Dofla if he really wanted to kill him and was trying pretty damn hard to become an officer by winning the tournament or killing Luffy. So he was indeed delusional and did not know where he stood. As far as hypocritical go, you can't do much worse than letting Luffy out of coliseum when he is on Dofla's top wanted list.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanuki View Post
    Bellamy is actually...really skilled post timeskip. No; really. Doflamingo for some god forsaken reason doesn't accept Bellamy into his crew despite the fact this dude managed to SOMEHOW break through Bartolomeo's barrier to grab the Strawhats number one fanboy in the collesium round, and had Elizabello not blown everyone out the ring, there's a good chance Bellamy could have come out on top. That's something Gladius and Dellinger could only have dreamt of doing.
    He also is one tough son of a bitch, taking repeated beatings from the collesium battle, Delinger, Doflamingo AND Luffy but still managing to get up. Bellamy managed to obtain armanent haki too, which a lot of the Donquioxte pirates didn't seem to have access to...why the fuck did Doflamingo turn down a guy who was overall more skilled than at least the majority of his officers? Idiot.
    Doffly loved his priviledges and spent his life ressenting his father for stripping him away from them. Bellamy also was privileges but rather than appreciate them as Doffly would have to he decided to let them all behind to become a pirate for fun which is a position Doffly end up in due to his awful fate.

    He is the anti-Doflamingo and that's why Dofla hate him. At least that's how I see it.

    Don't mess with the Law if you don't have an Ace up your sleeve.

  9. #209

    Default Re: Love and Loathe 2: Return of the Analysis

    Phew. I'm on time. I'll write a quick one before I return to bury my head in the books.

    Love: Bellamy is initially written to be an unlikable, unredeemable douche. And boy did Oda pull it off. Everything about him is just so effectively hateable, like One Piece's own Joffrey/Ramsay Bolton style character. It frustrated me to no end Luffy decided that he and Zoro wouldn't fight him and then it was handwaved because Nami said " don't start fights" but Luffy didn't listen to her when she said " fight back" during the battle . Like if anything it was a great portrayal of Luffy's stubbornness and determination.

    Watching him get trounced like a little schoolboy with a single blow was so incredibly cathartic. He was a great fold to Luffy: his ideals of piracy "no, you shouldn't have amibitions, you should be a loser hanging out in a shitty town" was an EXCELLENT fold to Luffy's determination. And the whole philosophy of One Piece's theme in general. Great stuff. I think the whole "lol dreams are stoopid" thing is like almost a little too straight forward. Like it's something that's almost unbelievable, sort of like a person saying " I hate having fun".

    More on that in the loathe section. But Doflamingo stepping into Jaya just telling him "whether Sky Island exist doesn't matter. Twist the ideas of anyone who oppose you to your advantage", really gave a great context to this. And also, it was amazing to see Bellamy just take a massive L again.

    When Bellamy returned in Dressrosa, it actually seemed like he had managed to sort of clear the air around his unlikability quite a bit. Everything seemed Jolly and well and it actually seemed like he was going to go through a real character arc. Find himself become strong! Maybe even land on a strong 3 in terms of characterization. And then...

    Loathe:
    So once Bellamy arrive in Dressrosa and we get the sense that he's actually going to grow, instead we get the exact opposite and his absolute worst character traits are brought to the forefront and comes to define him. He's just a weak, insecure prick. Instead of actually taking matters into his own hands and cut the ties with Doflamingo and allow himself to grow, he becomes even more of a pussywhiped dog. Not making him a "love to hate" character, but more into " this character is unintentionally annoying"-type of character.

    His decision to go against Luffy just made him sink like a stone. Having to watch him bounce around crying about " I CAN'T DENY WHO I AAAAAAM!!!" was just not enjoyable in the slightest. Luffy beating his ass again became more like a " GOD FINALLY" moment, that hindered you from thinking about the parallell between the fight in Jaya and Dressrosa.

    Had he actually died here, I wouldn't care. Like I would think that would be the best way to handle this whole. But alas, he had to survive and basically become an underling to Luffy. Not attoning for any of the backstabbing douchebaggery he engaged in before. Worse still, he has that smug, satisfied smile on his face when he takes the vivre card. God, I just never want to see this dick ever again. But we might have to.

    Two minor things: the whole thing about him going to Sky Island and when Luffy asked whether he harmed the Skypieans, he just says " who knows" and then it's never elaborated on. Sure, Viper or Gan Fohl would definetly crush him if he had tried something funny. But it just became an ominous hint that he actually did hurt them. I kinda hope he did and when he reunites with Luffy again, Luffy just kicks his ass.

    And the whole "dreams are st00pid" thing just seems like a really weird philosophy to have. Like, I can understand if it was him just lamenting what he deem superstitious, but no, it's actually dreams and ambitions in and off themselves that he's against. That like doesn't work at all.

    Character: 4 as a villain in Jaya. 1 (!) as a character in Dressrosa. Use the 1 as my rating.
    Design: 2.5
    Last edited by Strooger; March 22nd, 2017 at 10:19 AM.

  10. #210
    Champion Worrier Zar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Love and Loathe 2: Return of the Analysis

    I decided early on to refrain from giving my opinions (feels like it'll interfere with being as neutral as possible), but I'll make an exception for Bellamy too because he's, well, Bellamy. (Just tell me if you prefer me staying out of the these completely).

    Love:
    I love his powers. I have a weakness for "Luffy Class Fruits", powers that sounds like silly uselessness, but with some creativity can be turned into something badass. Examples would be the Wax and Calm fruits. These powers are immensely satisfying to watch, and with the Spring Fruit being the power most similar to the Gum Fruit there's a sense of familiarity with it. If there's any other fruit I could imagine Luffy having, this is it. Overall it's incredibly fun seeing Bellamy in a fight.

    Then there's his pre-timeskip character. Bellamy is a character you love to loathe. He's a complete pathetic asshole who does a damn fine job of setting the tone for many following actions and events. Blackbeard's speech about how people's dreams will never end, the true terror of Doflamingo who "executes" Bellamy, the bar parallel to Shanks showing Luffy's growth, the impact of Bellamy's crew trashing Cricket's place, and of course how can we forget Luffy OHKOing Bellamy. Even if you hate him there's no denying that thanks to Bellamy and his followers many of these moments, all extremely memorable, might've lost part of their importance.

    Then comes the timeskip. When I saw Bellamy again and saw how he had grown, I was pumped for what would happen. Luffy and Bellamy work extremely well together, be it as enemies or allies, and I was exited to see more of them. And to be honest, the scene before Luffy punches him where he says " I don't wanna be pathetic enough to lash out at the man I chose to follow just because his answer wasn't what I wanted to hear. If I'm gonna to be an idiot, i gotta to see that choice through till the end!"

    That was really good.


    Loathe:
    Where was I? Ah, excited to see him again! Can't wait to see all of Bellamy's growth and his character arc and he's completely run over the ridiculous amount of characters in Dressrosa. It's beating the dead horse at this point but Dressrosa's main problem was being bloated with excess stuff and it cost all characters. And the by far worst causality was Bellamy.

    Now, Bellamy decides to remain loyal to his boss till the very end. It would be difficult, but with some skill it could become a great story of betrayal and loyalty showcasing the best of Doflamingo's manipulation and Bellamy's determination. However at no point in the entire arc was this story believable. For one Doffy's manipulator trait seemed to go out the window and he made it painfully clear that Bellamy will never stand on his level. I can sort-of understand Bellamy when Doffy said he could join the family if he killed Luffy, but after he sent Dellinger to assassinate him and Bellamy still doesn't get the hint... just no, there's a difference between loyalty and being a blockhead. And that's the second time he's almost been killed.

    Going back to the first point, Bellamy's other big downfall was the lack of screen time. Instead of seeing a natural progression of his character he just pops up every so often to remind us he's there, something happens that is never elaborated upon, and then he leaves with no conclusion to his character arc whatsoever. What was even the point? He contributed nothing to Dressrosa. He could've had lots of interesting interactions with Luffy and Law, contrasting their choices in life. NOTHING! He could've elaborated on his adventures on Sky Island and leaving his crew behind. NOTHING! He could've formed a friendship with Bartolomeo who saved his ass. NOTHING!. He could've been in exciting fights, utilizing his unique fruit and Luffy-like abilities! NOTHING! Even in his final fight with Luffy we just get a rehearse of what we've already seen. And once again, unlike the hundreds of other characters in the arc who got their own conclusion, all he got was a flashback panel. One. Measly. Panel.
    It's such a massive disappointment, especially for someone who was hyped to see him return.

    I'm still excited to see him in the future, but considered how he was treated in Dressrosa my hopes aren't too high.
    Character/Story: 2. The only reason he isn't at a fat 1 is because his Jaya appearance was great.

    Design: 2. It was average to begin with, but then it got worse. That head does not work with those muscles.

  11. #211
    Division Commander Daz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Love and Loathe 2: Return of the Analysis

    V1: Jaya
    Love:
    Compared to whats come before, Bellamy is a wholly different beast in terms of arc antagonists: He’s the big schoolyard bully, who doesn’t realize he’s picking on a Black Belt. Jaya is all about how Luffys stepping into the Big Leagues without realizing it, or caring about anything but following his dreams, and everything about Bellamys character and role in Jaya is built around that.

    Bellamy is established completely despicable from the word go with one of the most insane villain introductions in the entire series, wherein he stabs a dude, shoots him, breaks a bottle on his face, lights him on fire and kicks him out of a tower. His disdain for dreams and scene with the Monkey Alliance continues to paint him as a total tool, but we also never see him as a legitimate threat to Luffy. He’s pointedly introduced offing someone with a 40 million bounty, and has a 50 million one himself, and throughout the arc we know Luffy totally dwarfs him. I know bounties aren’t exact power levels, but a clear hierarchy is being painted here. Bellamy is literally not worth Luffys time, which is shown in one of the best scenes of the entire manga: the bar scene. Neither Bellamys fists nor words can hurt Luffy, so like Shanks in chapter 1, he lets it slide. And thus, when he mocks and abuses Luffy for his dreams of Skypea we at once see Bellamy as pathetic and narrowminded, yet we also want to see his face caved in. Shut up Bellamy, Skypea sounds awesome! Of course, since not believing in Skypea doesn’t mean Bellamy can’t steal golden trinkets from it, we get to have our cake of Luffy being the bigger man and letting Bellamy go, and eating it too by later taking him out for the sake of his friends.
    Usually I’m all for extended, elaborately choreographed fights, but Luffy vs Bellamy is pitch perfect in its simplicity. That one punch packs in more fist-pumping catharsis than some mangas can accumulate in their entire runs. Even without all the bells and whistles (“So that’s what Whitebeard looks like!”), the conflict of dreamers vs assholes makes Jaya a classic, and simple douchebag Bellamy is instrumental for that.

    Loathe:

    Bellamys bland-ish design, ability and personality all reinforce his role in the story. But still, they leave him with a bland-ish design, ability and personality. The Bane Bane fruit in particular was probably the first case of DF-redundancy.
    Character: 4/5; as a person he’s not that interesting, but he serves his purpose absolutely flawlessly.
    Design: 2.5/5, very run-of-the mill, but again, that’s the point.



    V2: Dressrosa

    Love:
    On a conceptual level I don’t mind the idea of Bellamy growing into a better person, though he still retains some of his brutality, as seen in Block B. I think that he could’ve served as an interesting parallel to Bartolomeo, in terms of being fanboys for undeserving/deserving people. And the idea of having Luffy OHKO Bellamy again but having it be sad instead of awesome is interesting.
    Oh, and that one time Doflamingo tricked Luffy into kicking Bellamy in the face was hilarious.
    Uh. I guess that’s it.

    Loathe:
    If Mr 2 and Mr 3 are examples of re-introducing a character with success, Bellamy is the exact opposite. To put it bluntly, Bellamy in Dressrosa plain doesn’t work, and it feels like he was reeled in simply because he had a connection with Doflamingo in a previous arc. His role could’ve worked if about 5 of the other Dressrosa plotlines had been axed, but as is, Bellamys subplot is possibly the most clear example of the arcs haphazard nature, like with the “kill Luffy!” plotpoint that goes nowhere, because Dellinger stops Bellamy just before he’s about to go kill Luffy. It reached a point where “pulling a Bellamy” is now a thing people fear- that is, a character vanishing for a huge chunk of the story, yet us being expected to care when they reappear at the last minute. For instance, the current arc has mostly dodged this by keeping the spotlight on Capone/Caesar/Jinbe once they popped back up, but I’d say Pound is currently pulling a Bellamy.
    Anyway, Bellamys role in Dressrosa is built on his relationship with two people, Luffy and Doflamingo, and neither fully works.

    With Luffy, even though its been two years (and even longer IRL), his instant-friendship with Bellamy feels jarring. With Mr 3 we got to see his character growth firsthand, but with Bellamy we’re just to accept that he’s now a better man, and now Luffys friend (despite the bizarre comment about Skypeans when they first met). Luffy may be the type to forgive and make friends easily, but, like with Fukaboshi, just saying that the characters are friends doesn’t mean the readers are invested. If Luffy and Bellamy had gradually come around to respecting each other instead of instantly, it’d have been more compelling.

    Then, Doflamingo. Now theres no problem with depicting abusive relationships in fiction, and that’s absolutely what this is. But when every single interaction between Doffy and Bellamy involves the latter getting fucked over and left for dead, you need a good reason for Bellamys continued admiration. And the micro-flashback of “Wowie its Doflamingo! I’m a big fan, can I join you?” “Whatever” is not enough. In the context of Jaya you don’t need anything except “Bellamy is a Doffy fan, Doffy doesn’t give a shit oh snap”, but when you make it an emotional centerpiece of an arc, you need more. Why does Bellamy think Doffy in particular is so great? We don’t know. Again, something good could’ve come of this by contrasting him to Bartolomeo or Law, or playing up that he doesn’t understand Doffys true World Destroying desires, but this never happens.

    So in the end, when Luffy fights Bellamy, we don’t really buy the supposed friendship, and we don’t buy Bellamys unquestioning devotion, and Bellamy comes across as the worlds biggest, dumbest cockhead. At this point he knows Doflamingo is terrible and does not, and will not, ever care about Bellamy – and yet he still obstructs the efforts to stop the genocidal maniac! Because “”pride””. That’s not a fucking valid reason! Theres nothing admirable about Pride in and of itself! Its having Pride in your Pride! Like, If you found out the leaders you admired were literal sadistic Nazis, and you kept fighting for them anyway for no other reason than “it would not be honorable to leave just because they turned out to be monsters”, then guess what, you’re a complete moron. I guess you can make the case that Bellamy is supposed to come across as pathetic, but then you also have that line from Luffy about "being a man", so ehh.

    The message Bellamy conveyed in Jaya was "chase your dreams, and those who doubt you aren't worth your time."
    In Dressrosa, I guess we're supposed to find his "dream" of pig-headed loyalty to his abuser somehow admirable and/or sympathetic? Screw that.

    Mostly because in the end, as was said, theres no closure for Bellamy. Then again, even Laws reaction to Doflamingos defeat was muted, but it still makes everything feel rather pointless.

    Dressrosa character: 1.5/5
    Average: 2.75, rounded up to 3 because of Jaya
    Last edited by Daz; March 24th, 2017 at 12:18 AM.

  12. #212
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: Love and Loathe 2: Return of the Analysis

    I'm sorry to bring this up, but can I ask for an extension of a few hours for this? I REALLY want to comment about my thoughts on Bellamy, but I'm going to be busy because of school for the next eight hours before I get home.

    "The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke."

  13. #213
    Champion Worrier Zar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Love and Loathe 2: Return of the Analysis

    There's a few hours left till the deadline. I'm feeling a little sick so the evaluation may be up later than usual.

    Maybe I should visit our next character, but I'm afraid they're out at sea right now.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    I'm sorry to bring this up, but can I ask for an extension of a few hours for this? I REALLY want to comment about my thoughts on Bellamy, but I'm going to be busy because of school for the next eight hours before I get home.
    Coincidentally I'm a bit sick, so why not. I'll rest for today and the evaluation will be up sometime tomorrow.

  14. #214
    Champion Worrier Zar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Love and Loathe 2: Return of the Analysis

    Love and Loathe #10
    Bellamy






    Here's what you loved about Bellamy
    1. The Perfect Douche - As a villain Bellamy pulled it off perfectly. You loved to hate him, and the punch remains a fan-favorite moment for a reason.
    2. The Perfect Punch - Though most people would like to see more of Bellamy's powers, few would like his first fight with Luffy to go down any other way. It's an incredibly satisfying moment.
    3. He's back! - Nobody expected Bellamy of all people to show up again. Having gone through his own time-skip and become quite strong he became one of the more interesting characters of the arc. And though it ended up a disaster, some of you still look forward to his next appearance.
    4. Loyal till the End - Though there were some disagreements, and the road there was less liked, most people gave Bellamy some respect for realizing he made a terrible choice following Doffy but then accepting it and sticking with it till the bitter end.
    Favorite Comment goes to Kaido King of the beasts

    "When he was first introduced, Bellamy was the guy you loved to hate, done right. I absolutely despised the guy and felt amazing once he finally got his comeuppance at Luffy's hands, which speaks to how well he was developed.

    Had his story ended at Doflamingo's hands, he might have been a nice little side character, but with nothing much to remember. But boy, when he came back in Dressrosa, I actually found myself stoked, and that was because he came back a different person. He may not have given up all of his old ways, but it was evident that he learned from his experiences. So while we still got some big personality out of him, we also got to see the results of his two-year timeskip. He may not have won Block B, but he did win my heart back.

    Even though I do share some of the opinions that his role in the later part of the arc was weaker (which I will address later), I could still get behind his reaction to Doflamingo throwing him away and the pride that prevented him from turning on Doffy despite this. It was a nice break from the trope of a guy turning on his master after the master throws him away, which can sometimes get rather overdone."


    Here's what you loathed about Bellamy
    1. We're all friends now! - For being a massive asshole in the past and doing something to the Skypieans which was never elaborated on, Luffy befriended him way too fast.
    2. Ridiculous Loyalty - Apparently being a fan of someone is enough to keep fighting for them even after they sent an assassin after you. There was never a good reason for Bellamy to be so loyal to Doffy. And then when he realized Doflamingo's true nature he still sticks with his choice because of 'pride'. That moment might've charmed some, but for others it was the highlight of Bellamy's stupidity.
    3. The Forgotten Character - Dressrosa was packed with characters and Bellamy took the brunt of the chaos that followed. He never got a chance to actually do something worthwhile. Oh, he can kill Luffy to become a member of Doffy's family? Let's send Dellinger to assassinate him before he even gets the chance! What was even the point?
    4. No Conclusion - Doffy's defeated and Bellamy leaves in one flashback panel. We didn't even learn what he thought of Doffy's defeat. It's like Oda got bored with him.
    Favorite Comment goes to Daz
    "If Mr 2 and Mr 3 are examples of re-introducing a character with success, Bellamy is the exact opposite. To put it bluntly, Bellamy in Dressrosa plain doesn’t work, and it feels like he was reeled in simply because he had a connection with Doflamingo in a previous arc. His role could’ve worked if about 5 of the other Dressrosa plotlines had been axed, but as is, Bellamys subplot is possibly the most clear example of the arcs haphazard nature, like with the “kill Luffy!” plotpoint that goes nowhere, because Dellinger stops Bellamy just before he’s about to go kill Luffy.

    [...]

    Then, Doflamingo. Now theres no problem with depicting abusive relationships in fiction, and that’s absolutely what this is. But when every single interaction between Doffy and Bellamy involves the latter getting fucked over and left for dead, you need a good reason for Bellamys continued admiration. And the micro-flashback of “Wowie its Doflamingo! I’m a big fan, can I join you?” “Whatever” is not enough. In the context of Jaya you don’t need anything except “Bellamy is a Doffy fan, Doffy doesn’t give a shit oh snap”, but when you make it an emotional centerpiece of an arc, you need more. Why does Bellamy think Doffy in particular is so great? We don’t know. Again, something good could’ve come of this by contrasting him to Bartolomeo or Law, or playing up that he doesn’t understand Doffys true World Destroying desires, but this never happens.

    So in the end, when Luffy fights Bellamy, we don’t really buy the supposed friendship, and we don’t buy Bellamys unquestioning devotion, and Bellamy comes across as the worlds biggest, dumbest cockhead. At this point he knows Doflamingo is terrible and does not, and will not, ever care about Bellamy – and yet he still obstructs the efforts to stop the genocidal maniac! Because “”pride””. That’s not a fucking valid reason! Theres nothing admirable about Pride in and of itself! Its having Pride in your Pride! Like, If you found out the leaders you admired were literal sadistic Nazis, and you kept fighting for them anyway for no other reason than “it would not be honorable to leave just because they turned out to be monsters”, then guess what, you’re a complete moron. I guess you can make the case that Bellamy is supposed to come across as pathetic, but then you also have that line from Luffy about "being a man", so ehh.

    [...]"



    Character/Actions: 2.44

    Design: 2.33

    ~~ RANKINGS: Character ~~
    1. Galdino (4.42)
    2. Rosinante (4.13)
    3. Zoro (4.11)
    4. Jabra (3.78)
    5. Carue (3.75)
    6. Smoker (3.71)
    7. Caesar (3.10)
    8. Conis (2.56)
    9. Bellamy (2.44)
    10. Alvida (1.94)
    ~~ RANKINGS: Design ~~
    1. Rosinante (4.44)
    2. Caesar (4.28)
    3. Jabra (4.07)
    4. Carue (3.90)
    5. Galdino (3.88)
    6. Smoker (3.73)
    7. Zoro (3.40)
    8. Alvida (2.89)
    9. Conis (2.63)
    10. Bellamy (2.33)


    And with that, let's present the 11th Character!
    I want to know your the secret of your youth!



    Dr. Kureha


    To get the whole picture, please tell us the following:

    What are the things that you love about Kureha?
    What are the things that you loathe about Kureha?


    At the end please give Kureha two ratings:

    One for her character & actions in the story.
    One for her look & design.

    These must be between 1 and 5, with 5 being the highest (.5's are acceptable - ex. 1.5 or 4.5).

    This analysis will be open for the next 72 hours.

    New Rule!!Missed the previous character? You can still comment on them and the points will be counted. But only the previous character.

    Enjoy!
    Last edited by Zar; March 28th, 2017 at 10:15 AM.

  15. #215

    Default Re: Love and Loathe 2: Return of the Analysis

    Love: It's so damn rare to have a tough-as-nails old woman in a shonen manga, but Kureha makes it all work. From the drinking, to the absurdly-yet-awesome high age (140??), all while walking around in the snow with her midriff exposed.

    Took Chopper in at the request of the dying Hiruluk, so she acts a second mentor figure for him. Despite her "witch"-like nature, she knows her medical know-how and helped Nami recover during the Drum arc. Props. Plus despite Oda's handicap drawing women, imo even today she stands out in her design.

    In the anime, she's voiced by goddamn Masako Nozawa.

    Loathe: it's not a loathe per se but she is kinda overshadowed by Hiruluk. Maybe there could've been more to her?

    Character: 4/5
    Looks: 4/5

  16. #216
    Discovered Stowaway Atuin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Love and Loathe 2: Return of the Analysis

    I forgot! :( I might have saved Bellamy some points. Oh well he's at the mercy of Doflamingo now.

    Dr Kureha

    Love: Oh my gosh do I adore Kureha. She's not your typical female character in that she is neither the pretty girl nor the kind old woman. She is badass in a tight top and speaks in a way you have to, and want to respect. She's tough, she's cool, she's secretly sensitive, she looks awesome and she does it with ease. I also like how with her character she is over the top and full of **** and vinegar yet Oda has managed to subtly show she has far more depth then her sheer awesomeness. There is no one like her. Chopper got lucky to have two great mentors and still remain so innocent. Kureha pushes and pushes hard but she never abused him in a way that destroyed his personality. For that Kureha is also incredibly smart. Looks wise I really like her design. Weazened but leggy , slim and athletic. It's unique and yet quite normal at the same time.

    Loathe: She can be a little too tough but then again she wouldn't be Kureha if she was softer. I also loathe that there is not enough of her in the Manga so far. Other then that there isn't much I loathe about her.

    Character: 4.5/5
    Looks: 4/5

  17. #217

    Default Re: Love and Loathe 2: Return of the Analysis

    Kureha was cool enough to be asked by Luffy if she wanted to be a Pirate, 'nuff said. Granted I know he's done this for Gaimon and a fucking tree as well but Kureha's fucking dope regardless so it's w/e. Might write up a proper love/loathe later but one thing we should all keep in mind is that Kureha is the first one to tell us about the Will of D and Roger's true name!! That's huge!!

  18. #218
    Division Commander Daz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Love and Loathe 2: Return of the Analysis

    Kureha! Another one I need to find time for, dagnabbit. If I don't find that time, short version is that she's great.


    Also, side note, I vote that Count Mario (and Atuin too for that matter) can still post his thoughts on Bellamy. Can't just make a promise like that and bail!

    Side side note: If you've got other things to do, like school, then please do that instead

    Side side side note: I'll shut up now, go about your business, thread

  19. #219
    Champion Worrier Zar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Love and Loathe 2: Return of the Analysis

    A promise is a promise :) Atuin, Count Mario, and anyone else who still want to comment on Bellamy, feel free to do so whenever. I'll count your points! Doesn't matter if it's now or ten characters later.

    Also, let's add a new rule. You can always comment on the previous character and I'll count the points.

    I was thinking of extending this to all characters we've done but I'm worried the thread might lose it's focus. On a side note we will redo characters who had major developments (like Cae... I mean Gastino).
    Last edited by Zar; March 24th, 2017 at 02:52 PM.

  20. #220
    Discovered Stowaway Atuin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Love and Loathe 2: Return of the Analysis

    Well I'm off to bed now and doing a ten hour shift tomorrow but as I've been given the rope to hang myself for Bellamy I'll do him on Sunday. Err not like that!

    Thanks Daz. Thanks Zar.

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