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Thread: Love and Loathe: Story Arc Edition

  1. #121
    Trying Too Hard Below Average's Avatar
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    Default Re: Love and Loathe: Story Arc Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Daz View Post
    Brook is the Ben Gunn of One Piece, so I've always been more accepting of his hilarious insanity. Anyway, I just wanted to say this is a really good take that I never considered before. I've always been fond of just how seriously Brook takes matters of life and death- his fight with Zeo is a standout in the lackluster Fishman Island climax- and its neat to see it was present from the getgo.

    This just goes to show that this thread and its companion are extremely worthwhile, in that they a lot of interesting perspectives out there; and civilly, too!
    Well, thanks! Never thought my musings on the silly cartoon skeleton would be so well received~

    And as a follow up to those introspective thoughts about death and mortality, my thoughts on the Post Marineford stuff:

    It's alright.

    Love:

    Luffy's scene with Jinbei is easily the best moment from this arc. Emotional, impacting, and hitting all the right beats.

    The flashback was nice. Dadan is an amazing mother figure and I love her punching Garp over Ace's death. Really sold the connection all the characters had/have.

    Seeing what all the Strawhats were up to was fun. Well... Except for..

    Loathe:

    Kamabakka Kingdom. Now, Sanji is a suave, chivalrous, traditional man so sending him to an island of trans people led by the wonderfully gender-fluid Ivankov should theoretically be grounds for some solid humor. But the transvestites are all predators. Of course they are.

    The flashback had some weak villains. I didn't even remember Bluejam until I looked at it again.

    Story: 3 out of 5; more of an epilogue to a huge saga but an effective one.
    Setting: 3 out of 5; Goa was cool and most of the places the rest of the crew ended up were fun and inventive.

  2. #122

    Default Re: Love and Loathe: Story Arc Edition

    Sorry for not doing anything...been a bit preoccupied elsewhere. Hopefully tomorrow I'll get something in.


    Spoiler:

  3. #123
    Champion Worrier Zar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Love and Loathe: Story Arc Edition

    Don't worry, take your time! Just holding this again is wonderful!

    And I'll sneak in some short opinions...

    Like: The Epilogue got the hype up for the time-skip. Setting up a flashback for the main character half-way through the series was a risky move, but it worked with Dadan being a wonderful character and Sabo's story being engaging and sad. It added much-needed depth to Luffy. All the moments with Luffy realizing that he still has his crew, and the 3D2Y thing were fantastic.

    Dislike: Zoro getting trained by Mihawk was weird. Ace's character should've been fleshed out prior to the war instead of after.

    And this isn't quite relevant to this arc, but Sabo ending up alive ruined the impact of the flashback.

    Oh, and Haki. I'm guessing it was introduced to balance out DF users (particularly logia) but it just ended up removing a lot of creativity from fights and generally not making sense.

    Story: 4.5
    Setting: 3
    Last edited by Zar; February 28th, 2017 at 12:54 PM.

  4. #124
    The least articulate MrBits's Avatar
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    Default Re: Love and Loathe: Story Arc Edition

    I don't have strong enough feelings about this arc for a full Love and Loath, but I think it's pretty interesting how back when it was still coming out, a lot of people (at least in other forums, don't know about AP) didn't like the ASL flashback. And now it's, for the most part, pretty well liked. It kind of makes me wonder what other moments will be reevaluated a few years later.

  5. #125

    Default Re: Love and Loathe: Story Arc Edition

    So anyone want to set the next one going on
    Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:
    So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?
    Spoiler:



  6. #126

    Default Re: Love and Loathe: Story Arc Edition

    OK...wow. Almost 3 months. Never intended for this to happen, but I guess I just lost...drive? I dunno, I've always been interested in this and haven't stopped caring about it. Such is life I suppose. But with school pretty much over for me, I know I had better get out of my funk and get rolling if I want to see this continue to the end.

    So, the Post-War Arc! How did the look into Luffy's past fare?


    Things people loved about the arc were...
    1. The continued emotion train: One might think it'd be hard to keep it going at full speed after the climax of Marineford, but Oda pulls no punches as he expands in great detail how Luffy and his brothers' lives were shaped, continuing several themes from Marineford and bringing several of them full circle as a chapter of Luffy's life comes to a close.
    2. Dadan: OP has some pretty great mothers, and Dadan is often one of the top due to her powerful yet loving personality, not to mention her unique design.
    3. Return to Reality: It was great to finally see the other Straw Hats in action after so long, putting the series back on its main track. The looks into the Straw Hats' misadventures, the chaos of the World Government, and the other Supernovas entering the New World all helped make us excited for the future.

    Favorite comment goes to le crystal:
    Despite getting emotional easily towards sad scenes of any medium, Ace's death didn't really hit me at all. Whitebeard's death was more epic rather than moving. But seeing Luffy at his darkest moment, always so cheerful and upbeat, bawling his eyes out, feeling like a complete failure and nearly giving up on his dream? That sealed the deal. Jinbe pulling Luffy out of his misery and bringing back Luffy's resolve was the moment that cemented him as a top-tier One Piece character too.

    Things people loathed about the arc were...
    1. Another Brother?: While Sabo isn't seen as a bad character by most, his sudden inclusion into Luffy's life felt sudden to some, as it was a bit weird to introduce another player in a saga pretty much entirely devoted to the relationship between Luffy and Ace. Also, the way Sabo's "death" was handled didn't sit well with some.
    2. Here Comes Haki: Haki is not one of the more beloved powers in the series, so many didn't really like its official reveal and expansion in this arc.
    3. Alas, only a sneak peek: Some of the Straw Hat stories were considered to be rather weaker than the others, most notably Sanji's, Chopper's, and Brook's.

    Favorite comment goes to Cavendish:
    Sabo being introduced after Ace dies makes him seem like the goldfish a parent buys to replace their kid's dead fish before they notice and get sad... If we was introduced earlier it would work better IMO.

    Overall, with 12 votes, this arc got a story score of 3.92 and with 11 votes, a setting score of 3.55.

    Rankings - Story
    1. Sabaody: 4.39
    2. Post-War 3.92
    3. Thriller Bark: 3.9
    4. Baratie: 3.69
    5. Punk Hazard: 2.93

    Rankings - Setting
    1. Thriller Bark: 4.45
    2. Sabaody: 3.96
    3. Post-War: 3.55
    4. Baratie: 3.35
    5. Punk Hazard: 2.58

    The next arc will be revealed in about 2 hours. Hint: You don't come here for recreation


    Spoiler:

  7. #127
    The least articulate MrBits's Avatar
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    Default Re: Love and Loathe: Story Arc Edition

    Glad to see this back. I'm guessing it's Arlong Park.

  8. #128

    Default Re: Love and Loathe: Story Arc Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBits View Post
    Glad to see this back. I'm guessing it's Arlong Park.
    Ding ding ding! As with the other thread, you can pick the next arc we review; just message me one. Obviously, it cannot be Whole Cake Island but otherwise there are no restrictions.

    And now, as we resume the Story Arc Love and Loathes, let's turn our eyes to the namesake of this very forum...the Arlong Park Arc!

    To get the whole picture, please tell us the following:

    What are the things that you love about Arlong Park?
    What are the things that you loathe about Arlong Park?


    At the end please give Arlong Park two ratings:

    One for the story and characters.
    One for the setting.

    These must be between 1 and 5, with 5 being the highest (.5's are acceptable - ex. 1.5 or 4.5). I will tally these.



    This analysis will be open for the next 96 hours. Or at my discretion, really.


    Enjoy, and welcome back!


    Spoiler:

  9. #129
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: Love and Loathe: Story Arc Edition

    I don't see how Arlong Park is a park when it only has a giant pool.

    "The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke."

  10. #130

    Default Re: Love and Loathe: Story Arc Edition

    It's a lame water park.
    <<
    >>

  11. #131
    The least articulate MrBits's Avatar
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    Default Re: Love and Loathe: Story Arc Edition

    Hmm... Arlong Park is an arc that always comes up when discussing the best parts of One Piece. I guess I'm an odd one out for thinking it's just "pretty good," but I'm not really sure why. Let's see if I can figure that out.

    Love:
    -This is easily a high point for Nami's character. Watching her struggle to protect her friends and family, and her rage when everything falls apart gives use some of One Piece's most iconic moments. And while I'm not as big on her flashback as most people, it's still undeniably a really good one.
    -Fishman were such a strange and awesome concept back then. Mihawk showed us how dangerous the Grand Line could be, but Arlong showed us how bizarre it could be.
    -The fights were all pretty good, but a special mention has to go to Usopp vs. Chuu. Watching Usopp overcome his fears is probably his first great character moment, and it's just a pretty funny fight, what with him playing dead and all.
    -It's not just Usopp though, the entire crew gets a chance to shine.
    -Compared to a lot of future arcs, which sometimes try to bite off more than they can chew, this one is straightforward and focused and simple. Still...

    Loathe:
    -Despite what I just said earlier, I generally prefer One Piece arcs when they're trying to be complex, ambitious, and imaginative. So Arlong Park's (along with most pre-Alabasta arcs) simplicity sometimes feels a bit plain to me.
    -This is mostly in the setting and the supporting cast. Cocoyashi just isn't a very interesting place, just a village being oppressed by a loan shark. I mentioned this back in my Baratie post, but Jonny and Yosaku are both so bland they probably would have worked better as a single character. And I'm probably in a minority here, but I've never really seen the appeal of Genzo, Nojiko, or even Bellemere.
    -Finally, Luffy getting stuck in the concrete is the first outright dumb moment in the series.

    Story/Characters: 3/5
    Setting: 2/5


    Maybe I'm just due for a reread.
    Last edited by MrBits; May 20th, 2017 at 08:17 AM.

  12. #132
    Champion Worrier Zar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Love and Loathe: Story Arc Edition

    Arlong Park

    Love
    One Piece was decent before, but Arlong Park is when the series showed its true colors. It was the right length, had the right balance of comedy and drama, the right amount of characters and they all got a chance to shine. This is when the Strawhats transformed from a group of random people tagging along for their own purposes to a crew. Sanji fit right in despite being the new guy and Usopp got some very needed development before they headed into the Grand Line.

    And of course Nami. I don't think anybody expected her to leave the crew, but since she was the first to betray them I'd be lying if I didn't have my doubts. Her backstory is heartbreaking (second only to Chopper's and maybe Brook's). The other stand-out scenes is when she stabs herself and Luffy gives her the Strawhat, and when Luffy destroys the map room. And how can we forget Luffy stomping Arlong through the building. Still one of the best finishers in One Piece. I generally don't like fights in One Piece but every single fight at Arlong Park was entertaining.

    Arlong was a terrific villain, combining intelligence with strength and even some compassion for his men. This was a pirate, with a bizarre fishman crew. And unlike all other villains he had obtained everything he wanted. Few villains come close to how terrifying Arlong was.

    Loathe
    Like all East Blue arcs I find it hard to criticize Arlong Park. This arc is what formed our expectations of One Piece, it set the bar all other arcs have to beat. There was no prior expectations that it failed. Even the things I "dislike" about the arc were still vast improvements at it's time.

    Like the cast. Arlong and the Strawhats were excellent, but compared with later arcs most of the remaining cast lacked that "One Piece Charm". They were by no means bad, but after reading arcs like Whole Cake Island, Drum and Impel Down and then you go back to Arlong Park... it feels a little dry. And this is something that goes for all the villains, even Arlong. Even if they were entertaining, they never went beyond their status as villains (aside from Hachi). The Manta guy is a manta man who knows how to fight. Arlong is a big bad merman terrorizing innocent people. At the time a vast improvement, but now they lack some nuance.

    Johnny and Josack were useless. They're bounty hunters, yet it's Genzo and Nojiko who do something.

    Story: 5/5 - It did everything it should've. Not too long, not to short.
    Setting: 2/5 - this is a bit of a difficult one. For being an East Blue arc the setting was highly memorable, and honestly I don't want it to be bizarre. It's East Blue, not the Grand Line. But compared to the snowy Drum Kingdom, the overgrown island in the sky, an underwater kingdom far beneath the ocean surface... it's nothing special.

  13. #133

    Default Re: Love and Loathe: Story Arc Edition

    I probably belong t the minority who still weren't hooked after Arlong Park, but here it goes:

    Like:
    - First instance of the racism theme - it's not really for this arc since Arlong at the time was just an asshole who needed to get his ass kicked like everyone before, but it gave us foundation for beautiful FI flashback and everything that followed
    - Zoro vs Hatchi - the fight might have been nothing special, but it was the only somewhat entertaining moment during the battle for me. Seeing him going forward even after fainting halfway through it was nice.
    - Genzo last farewell (with sake) for Bellemere - actually cute moment

    Loathe
    - Arlong and his crew were buildup as an actual threat and in the end they seem weaker than Kreg's crew. The only ones who had troubles with their fights were more-than-half-dead Zoro and Sanji fighting underwater. Krieg's bounty makes no sense at all when you think about it after looking at Arlong who bribed Nezumi to keep his as low as possible.

    Everything else was just sorta bland for me.

    Story: 2/5
    Setting: 2/5
    All hail Machvise-sama, Arlong Park Character Tournament 2016 Champion!

  14. #134

    Default Re: Love and Loathe: Story Arc Edition

    How long til the Dressrossa arc so that I throw up all my loathe ?
    Last edited by Nilitch; May 20th, 2017 at 01:37 PM.

  15. #135

    Default Re: Love and Loathe: Story Arc Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBits View Post
    Hmm... Arlong Park is an arc that always comes up when discussing the best parts of One Piece. I guess I'm an odd one out for thinking it's just "pretty good," but I'm not really sure why. Let's see if I can figure that out.

    Love:
    -This is easily a high point for Nami's character. Watching her struggle to protect her friends and family, and her rage when everything falls apart gives use some of One Piece's most iconic moments. And while I'm not as big on her flashback as most people, it's still undeniably a really good one.
    -Fishman were such a strange and awesome concept back then. Mihawk showed us how dangerous the Grand Line could be, but Arlong showed us how bizarre it could be.
    -The fights were all pretty good, but a special mention has to go to Usopp vs. Chuu. Watching Usopp overcome his fears is probably his first great character moment, and it's just a pretty funny fight, what with him playing dead and all.
    -It's not just Usopp though, the entire crew gets a chance to shine.
    -Compared to a lot of future arcs, which sometimes try to bite off more than they can chew, this one is straightforward and focused and simple. Still...

    Loathe:
    -Despite what I just said earlier, I generally prefer One Piece arcs when they're trying to be complex, ambitious, and imaginative. So Arlong Park's (along with most pre-Alabasta arcs) simplicity sometimes feels a bit plain to me.
    -This is mostly in the setting and the supporting cast. Cocoyashi just isn't a very interesting place, just a village being oppressed by a loan shark. I mentioned this back in my Baratie post, but Jonny and Yosaku are both so bland they probably would have worked better as a single character. And I'm probably in a minority here, but I've never really seen the appeal of Genzo, Nojiko, or even Bellemere.
    -Finally, Luffy getting stuck in the concrete is the first outright dumb moment in the series.

    Story/Characters: 3/5
    Setting: 2/5


    Maybe I'm just due for a reread.
    Omg I just realized now he's a loan Shark...damn oda playing 3D chess with puns
    Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:
    So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?
    Spoiler:



  16. #136

    Default Re: Love and Loathe: Story Arc Edition

    -Love:
    -Arlong's crew had succfussly been portrayed as a big threat. Him putting a rifle in Bellemare's mouth was graphic and very violent, we didn't get things like that after. Oda softened his manga.


    Story: 4/5
    Setting: 3/5

    Quote Originally Posted by Koliber View Post
    Loathe
    - Arlong and his crew were buildup as an actual threat and in the end they seem weaker than Kreg's crew. The only ones who had troubles with their fights were more-than-half-dead Zoro and Sanji fighting underwater. Krieg's bounty makes no sense at all when you think about it after looking at Arlong who bribed Nezumi to keep his as low as possible.
    Most bounties make no sense and are just there because that's what the plot requires. So many examples it needs its own thread.

  17. #137

    Default Re: Love and Loathe: Story Arc Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilitch View Post
    How long til the Dressrossa arc so that I throw up all my loathe ?
    Arcs are picked semi-randomly.

    Arlong Park:

    Love: This was the first One Piece arc that gave me the feels. Before this, I enjoyed the series for its lighthearted adventure and zany characters, but this arc first demonstrated how deep and powerful the narrative can get. The scene with Luffy putting his Straw Hat on Nami and the crew marching into Arlong Park is the best scene in the entire East Blue Saga, and remains one of the best in the series as a whole. Nami's flashback is incredible and possibly the most brutal with the exception of Robin's and Brook's, with both her and multiple side characters suffering a great deal and laboring on a very hard road as they're forced to slave around. Their experiences also help shape Arlong, the main villain, and turn him into the most despicable villain we've seen yet, while at the same time making sure he's an interesting character to boot.

    This arc also first introduced the 1v1 fights that have become somewhat standard in climax arcs, and most of them are pretty unique and interesting. There's Zoro with his injuries from the previous arc, Usopp finally getting some character development, and Sanji getting the chance to shine. While Luffy getting trapped in concrete was definitely a bit silly, I did enjoy how his weakness to water actually became a major plot point. That, his hilarious shark jaw weapons, and him destroying the cartography room all make his fight against Arlong extremely memorable.

    Loathe: I agree that all of Arlong's henchmen were pretty boring, and I didn't really like Hachi until the Sabaody Arc. Pretty standard for the times, sure, but this arc DID come after the Baratie Arc, which had a pretty memorable antagonists roster, and Jango back in Syrup Village wasn't too shabby either. Also, while Johnny and Yusuke are ironic favorites of mine for their continued lack of presence in the plot, I do agree that it would have been nice to see them doing more.

    Also, I don't really know if I like Nezumi's inclusion in the plot. Yeah, it was nice to acknowledge how Arlong can rule over an entire village, but I found Nezumi's presence forgettable. I was only mildly amused when Luffy hit him.

    Story: 4.5
    Setting: 2.5
    - the pool and the tower were nice, but not particularly memorable, the rest of the island is pretty bland.


    Spoiler:

  18. #138
    The least articulate MrBits's Avatar
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    Default Re: Love and Loathe: Story Arc Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilitch View Post
    -Love:
    -Arlong's crew had succfussly been portrayed as a big threat. Him putting a rifle in Bellemare's mouth was graphic and very violent, we didn't get things like that after. Oda softened his manga.
    Pedro ripping out his eye is soft?

  19. #139

    Default Re: Love and Loathe: Story Arc Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBits View Post
    Pedro ripping out his eye is soft?
    This was a flashback. Anyway, yeah, Bellemare and rifle in it was one too. I don't know when exactly Oda's granny asked him not to kill people. it probably was just after Romance Dawn.

  20. #140

    Default Re: Love and Loathe: Story Arc Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilitch View Post
    This was a flashback. Anyway, yeah, Bellemare and rifle in it was one too. I don't know when exactly Oda's granny asked him not to kill people. it probably was just after Romance Dawn.


    ^ Not in a flashback, to boot.


    Spoiler:

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