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Thread: Chapter 859: The Yonkou Assassination Plan

  1. #361
    of the Hundred Beasts The Laughing Man's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 859: The Yonkou Assassination Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by desa View Post
    Capone is really going on some flimsy evidence for his plan. That occurence happened once(so there's not even proof it was excatly that whixh cause it or even if the timing is always consistant or if it was not just a fluke.

    You need 2 occurrences for a solid theory and 3 for proof.



    That's sad. Her feats seems even more mundane now[/LIST][/FONT][/COLOR]
    Yeah... But, to be honest, Oda told the audience about the portrait for a reason, and the reason is it probably is connected to Big Mom somehow and her power/toughness.

    She probably is going to turn out similar to Dorian Gray and his portrait; I'm about...85% certain of it. (lol)
    Last edited by The Laughing Man; March 20th, 2017 at 04:32 PM.


  2. #362

    Default Re: Chapter 859: The Yonkou Assassination Plan

    Thanks as always BellisarioFaith :)

  3. #363
    Kick-Ass Finalis desa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 859: The Yonkou Assassination Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Laughing Man View Post
    Yeah... But, to be honest, Oda told the audience about the portrait for a reason, and the reason is it probably is connected to Big Mom somehow and her power/toughness.
    storytelling wise it will work but for the character it's not really smart.

    Don't mess with the Law if you don't have an Ace up your sleeve.

  4. #364
    Wano? Wa-TWO YEARS??? Kaido King of the Beasts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 859: The Yonkou Assassination Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by desa View Post
    Capone is really going on some flimsy evidence for his plan. That occurence happened once(so there's not even proof it was excatly that whixh cause it or even if the timing is always consistant or if it was not just a fluke.

    You need 2 occurrences for a solid theory and 3 for proof.
    Bege is not going to have that circumstance happen three times. The guy is perceptive, and I'm sure he'd be able to see any other factors in Big Mom's episode if they were there. This is reckless, but it is his only shot at taking down Big Mom unless he maybe works to become as physically strong as her, if that's even possible for him.

    That's sad. Her feats seems even more mundane now
    How? The scans were just using flowery language like they always do, her feats are exactly the same and have been matched by only a few people.

    Quote Originally Posted by desa View Post
    storytelling wise it will work but for the character it's not really smart.
    I'd think it's better to withhold judgement on the portrait until we actually find out its significance to Big Mom.
    Last edited by Kaido King of the Beasts; March 21st, 2017 at 08:00 AM.

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  5. #365

    Default Re: Chapter 859: The Yonkou Assassination Plan

    All this talk of iron balloons and steel blimps sounds like JJBA localisations trying to dance around a Led Zeppelin reference.

    Frankly I'm saddened there isn't a translation out there that went with "lead zeppelin" for that line anyway.

  6. #366

    Default Re: Chapter 859: The Yonkou Assassination Plan

    I still don't like the iron thing translation. So what if she is tough like iron, they used to cut it, tekkai was like it, now Aramements is like iron yet they don't complain and still manage to beat those guys. And what about jozu then... Didn't sanji use the iron body translation for vergo too?

    At this point should we think she is just tough or has very good B haki, reason for her iron like body?

  7. #367
    of the Hundred Beasts The Laughing Man's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 859: The Yonkou Assassination Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by uniaka ikuzakas View Post
    I still don't like the iron thing translation. So what if she is tough like iron, they used to cut it, tekkai was like it, now Aramements is like iron yet they don't complain and still manage to beat those guys. And what about jozu then... Didn't sanji use the iron body translation for vergo too?

    At this point should we think she is just tough or has very good B haki, reason for her iron like body?
    Probably something else. More than likely something to do with her Devil Fruit ability, and her ability to transfer her soul into things. Probably transferred a majority of her soul into the portrait or Mother Caramel, kinda-sorta similar to the fairy tail about Dorian Gray and his portrait that took on his age, damage, and "sins" instead of Dorian himself. Though...if it was directly bumped, hurt or damaged, Dorian himself would then be hurt or damaged.

    In short: Have to damage her soul in order to damage her physical form, or, basically, damage the thing holding a majority of her soul (since Prometheus and Zeus were scratched during Big Mom's confrontation with Brook, and, seemingly, nothing happened to Big Mom when they were damaged, they hold at least some of her soul).


  8. #368
    Vanquishing Light The True Saviour's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 859: The Yonkou Assassination Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by uniaka ikuzakas View Post
    I still don't like the iron thing translation. So what if she is tough like iron, they used to cut it, tekkai was like it, now Aramements is like iron yet they don't complain and still manage to beat those guys. And what about jozu then... Didn't sanji use the iron body translation for vergo too?

    At this point should we think she is just tough or has very good B haki, reason for her iron like body?
    I loved that description. An iron balloon with incredible speed, unmatched strength and the ability to create massive storms sounds about what you'd expect from a Yonkou. You're taking it as "she has a tough body". That is a failure on your part for being unable to read critically. There is nothing more frightening than an iron balloon, when viewed in context.

    And the way toughness works in OP is really interesting. Endurance and body toughness have a direct correlation with willpower and overall spirit. Once someone spirits' is broken their body becomes vulnerable. Big Moms toughness, just like any other character, is a direct result from their will.

  9. #369

    Default Re: Chapter 859: The Yonkou Assassination Plan

    lmao all y'all acting like if you were an invincible iron balloon yonkou who's been controlling 1/4 of the new world for 20+ years y'all wouldn't get super complacent as all hell with a photograph of someone who maybe allowed you to become a yonkou in the first place?

    smh. Learn to read context. I know it's hard to apply yourself and think critically when it comes to plot points like this, but try. It'll only help you appreciate shit like this in the long run.

  10. #370
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    Default Re: Chapter 859: The Yonkou Assassination Plan

    I noticed in this chapter that there is another person with black wings, making it the third in total IIRC.
    Spoiler:


    Can anyone else recall seeing more people like this?

    First was Magellan.
    Spoiler:


    And the second was unnamed Big Mom Pirate/Son/Affiliate
    Spoiler:

  11. #371

    Default Re: Chapter 859: The Yonkou Assassination Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by TommyDunns View Post
    I noticed in this chapter that there is another person with black wings, making it the third in total IIRC.

    Can anyone else recall seeing more people like this?

    First was Magellan.

    And the second was unnamed Big Mom Pirate/Son/Affiliate
    Shilliew also had wings when he was the Head Jailer...
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  12. #372

    Default Re: Chapter 859: The Yonkou Assassination Plan

    Always thought it was part of the warden uniform

  13. #373
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 859: The Yonkou Assassination Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainYama View Post
    lmao all y'all acting like if you were an invincible iron balloon yonkou who's been controlling 1/4 of the new world for 20+ years y'all wouldn't get super complacent as all hell with a photograph of someone who maybe allowed you to become a yonkou in the first place?

    smh. Learn to read context. I know it's hard to apply yourself and think critically when it comes to plot points like this, but try. It'll only help you appreciate shit like this in the long run.
    Doesn't make it any less dumb, convenient, and out of nowhere if she really does place it in public simply because of complacency. Especially when a freaking waiter nudged it to fall by accident. That's lackluster writing. Like having Zeff be a misogynist after two decades of build-up towards Sanji's origins.
    Last edited by Count Mario; March 21st, 2017 at 09:35 AM.

    "The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke."

  14. #374

    Default Re: Chapter 859: The Yonkou Assassination Plan

    Didn't most of the Impel down head guards have similar wings?

  15. #375

    Default Re: Chapter 859: The Yonkou Assassination Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Cutty Fram View Post
    Always thought it was part of the warden uniform
    Maybe because it was and Magellan have no wings after all.
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  16. #376

    Default Re: Chapter 859: The Yonkou Assassination Plan

    Was implying that

  17. #377

    Default Re: Chapter 859: The Yonkou Assassination Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    Doesn't make it any less dumb, convenient, and out of nowhere if she really does place it in public simply because of complacency. Especially when a freaking waiter nudged it to fall by accident.
    I wouldn't say so.

    Big Mom seems to be all about family when she's in her right mind.

    Having her put that picture out there in full view of her closest allies in the heart of her domain doesn't really seem like wild or sloppy writing to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    Like having Zeff be a misogynist after two decades of build-up towards Sanji's origins.
    I think you might be exaggerating just a little bit here.
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  18. #378
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 859: The Yonkou Assassination Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by RobZilla View Post
    I wouldn't say so.

    Big Mom seems to be all about family when she's in her right mind.

    Having her put that picture out there in full view of her closest allies in the heart of her domain doesn't really seem like wild or sloppy writing to me.
    You misunderstand me. I am not stating that this plot point is automatically bad regardless of how it can be executed. Like you stated, family purposes could be a totally justifiable reason. Like, let's say we get a flashback where Mother Carmel was treated very dearly and often attended meal sessions with the Charlotte Family. Thus, Big Mom has a picture of her present for every Tea Party/wedding in order to commemorate Mother Carmel's influence on their lives. That works fine. It has an actual plot purpose and fits into characterization.

    But let's say that Oda never explains why the picture is there. Theoretically, it was only introduced with little to no foreshadowing (outside of the Caramel Cafe's name) because Oda realized at the last minute that Big Mom is too powerful and needs an arbitrary plot-convenient weakness. That would be a bit of sloppy and negligent writing that didn't properly plan ahead. Or, let's say that Big Mom literally says in the next chapter that she keeps her weakness out in the open not because of any family or sentimental reasons, but purely out of hubris because she's a Yonko. That can sort of fit into her character in terms of being a Yonko who has been in power for years. But it would be pretty disappointing to see considering how sophisticated had crew structure, kingdom, information network, alliances, checking Brook's body for the Poneglyph scripts,etc, are made as have had a pretty good impression of Big Mom being a competent tactical thinker. And it redundantly repeats a common cliche of arc villains underestimating the Straw Hats for the sake of underestimating the Straw Hats, which we would prefer for a villain as notable as Big Mom to rise above. At least when it comes to Big Mom's children not telling her about stuff, it's established well that Big Mom's punishments and fits of rage/hunger pangs inspire fear in her family. And we haven't even seen any instances of Big Mom's invincibility. We only learned it even existed this chapter.

    If she knows that a waiter can get away with knocking over her picture and if Roger could get away with her Road Poneglyph script, I would like to think that her character is not naive enough to think that nobody else, even accidentally, can mess with the picture because she just happens to be that overconfident. Its placement there should mean something significant. Otherwise, it's a hollow plot device made so that Bege can have a plan formed off-panel.

    I think you might be exaggerating just a little bit here.
    Not really. How would you feel if instead of Luffy using Gear Fourth against Doflamingo, he happened to have a convenient weakness in the vicinity. Like magical scissors that can cut strings or something? Or if when Luffy fought Enel, instead of being invulnerable to Enel's attacks because of being made a rubber, there happened to be some sort of magnet on Enel's ship that Luffy can use to disrupt his powers because of polarity disturbances or whatever? I'm just Saiyan that weaknesses introduced this late into the game without build-up can be easily come across as looking fairly cheap if they can't be backed up with meaningful explanations.

    And to clarify, I don't have an issue with the picture at all. I completely trust Oda to deliver on this wedding. I just didn't care for how smug Captain Yama's comment was about how it's okay to lower our narrative standards for arbitrary arc villain hubris.

    "The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke."

  19. #379
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    Default Re: Chapter 859: The Yonkou Assassination Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by KageKageKing View Post
    Shilliew also had wings when he was the Head Jailer...
    Nice catch. However he seems to be missing them in his latest appearance.
    Spoiler:


    Quote Originally Posted by TheStoner View Post
    Didn't most of the Impel down head guards have similar wings?
    Quote Originally Posted by Cutty Fram View Post
    Always thought it was part of the warden uniform
    I just checked again and it seems that Hannyabal and Saldeath both have these wings, so it's quite possible it's an Impel down design.
    With these new characters I'm confused tbh.

    Spoiler:

  20. #380

    Default Re: Chapter 859: The Yonkou Assassination Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Megalo View Post
    I haven't posted here in a long time but did anyone else notice all the suspicious faces Carrot's been making recently? It makes me think that she knows something we don't and that either she's:

    A. Working with Big Mom
    B: Working with Kaido (hence the vivre card)
    C. Notices something off with Capone's plan (maybe he's working with Pudding)

    Or it could be something else. Either way, something is going to go down otherwise why would Oda put in those panels specifically made to draw attention to Carrot? Or am I overthinking this?
    I think she is going to have a big part in saving the day in this arc, her or Vegapunk are going to save the day. Luffy is definitely getting shot with one of those poison RPG's. His poison immunity is going to pay off AGAIN it seems.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Big Mom doesn't have to die, she just needs to become powerless which is what will likely happen. I'd be fine with her dying though.I don't get why people would think Luffy would save her...he isn't a murderer but he isn't gonna go out of his way to prevent someone evil from being assassinated every time either. I could see him taking a poison blast for her and saying he wants to fight her one on one instead of following the plan at all but it just doesn't fit the situation considering there will be hundreds of other enemies around, not to mention she's AT LEAST a bit more powerful than him. I get the feeling Luffy or Carrot are getting their memories erased at least temporarily. Also the whole Pudding thing is not over for me, she still has a ton of secrets wrapped around her... what if she altered her own memories to become evil on purpose temporarily for the greater good? That would be some shit. Mother Carmel... what the hell is going on with that? Maybe she is Nami's mom, or Puddings real mom, or Big Mom's mom or no ones mom... maybe she is the largest portion of Big Mom' soul and therefor a Horcrux of sorts like many have theorized which would help explain Big Mom's near invincibility. Maybe it's less Harry Potter and more Dragon Ball Z. Piccolo/ Kami split style.

    If Pudding altered her memory to come back minutes before the wedding and shoots the picture of Mother Carmel instead of Sanji, and Luffy comes bursting out of the cake to see Sanji and Pudding engaged in a kiss it would be wild... as Big Mom goes BERSERK BANANAS. Please don't be evil Pudding because you are soooo good at being bad the only thing that could make you cooler at this point is to be even better at being good.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    I still say Jimbei is losing his memories. No more knowledge of the New World, no more fishman karate, the flashbacks potential of seeing his parents, Ace, of his life (a chance to see the FI Dojo?!) .... I'd cry man I'd weep. He could even get them back at the end of the arc and finally join the SH and it would give us readers so much feels for him.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Maybe Carmel with sea salt will take away BM's devil fruit powers.
    Last edited by allbluebro; March 21st, 2017 at 06:05 PM.

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