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Thread: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

  1. #501
    Flagon Snaggin' Dragon Kaido King of the Beasts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by FolhaS View Post
    And if Sanji gets to fight with Katakori it will be a fight based on Observation, don't you think?
    Don't just go around throwing powerlevels at everything.
    Observation alone doesn't win battles. If the two were to fight, they would have to get physical at least at some point, and I dunno if Sanji could outmatch Katakuri in that regard. A full observation-based battle would essentially revolve around usage of the technique before someone gets disadvantaged and then one-shotted, and I seriously doubt someone like Katakuri would go down with one blow (and no, Cracker did not go down with one blow).



    Spoiler:

  2. #502
    Aokiji for NN!! SHpirates's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Omni View Post
    The people writing the longest posts get the most things wrong. Quit underestimating Luffy, quit underestimating Sanji, and quit thinking we have time to revisit Big Mom for a more overwhelming defeat. She is going to lose Yonkou status by the time this arc is over.
    we have more than enough time, one saga for each yonkou and one for Raftel and one for PK war. Maybe a few arcs more and some big events then thats about it!

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Monquito View Post
    yonkou commander level?? aah you must be talking about the yonkou commander who got killed by an admiral and the other yonkou commander who got his arm ripped by another admiral, got it.

    you haven't answered my question btw.
    As strong or a bit stronger then marco and he is going to defeat Kizaru in the last battle somehow

  3. #503
    Don't know what to say... Monquito's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by SHpirates View Post

    he is going to defeat Kizaru in the last battle somehow
    aah the old and passionate topic of who's gonna be last villain between Teach and Akainu.(Darth would love this)
    Make Akainu the last villain and throw thru the window all build up Teach's been having the entire series....








  4. #504
    Aokiji for NN!! SHpirates's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by dlo62282 View Post
    Yes, only one tier apart. Sanji is vice admiral level. Dogtooth is yonkou commander level. There is no tier between those. Damn sure closer than brook and big mom. Sabo beat burgess but they were close to the same tier. Sabo is near admiral level and burgess is lower yonkou commander.
    thats one big tier tho, I would say that a Yonkou number 2 like Katakuri could beat 5-10 vice admirals, just look at Oars he beat a few even if they were giants...
    Katakori should be around the same level as Sabo and he beat that vice admiral in like one blow no probs 10 more of those and that is one tier tho?

  5. #505
    Flagon Snaggin' Dragon Kaido King of the Beasts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    There are no tiers in One Piece.



    Spoiler:

  6. #506
    The villain eternal. Kylor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    So... hoo boy. Bit late to the thread (I read chapters based on the official Jump release, not the scans) so I can put down my actual thoughts here, but... okay... I'll just come out and say it...

    The treatment of women in One Piece has finally crossed the line for me now. I might drop the series.

    It's pretty clear at this point that Oda simply does not see women as being equal to men. There's no other way to look at it. If he respected women, he would not have written his characters this way. These views are not uncommon in Japan, I mean heck I know my own country has a long way to go, but considering Oda's status, and how much women in the manga industry are ignored or shut out for entirely arbitrary reasons, that he also shares this view is horrendous.

    Too often now, we're getting the same message, over and over again, in the series. Women are weak. Women can't deal with the same hardships men can. An "evil" woman just needs a man to come along and treat her kindly for her to see that she was wrong. Their role is to be a support, to need saving, to cry. We've seen this with Nami. With Rebecca. With Robin, Shirahoshi, Viola, Tashigi, Hancock, women we were promised would be strong, and each and every time, Oda has lied to his readers. I can't trust him as an author anymore. I just can't.

    Now, do I think he's TRYING to be hateful, or send a message to his female readers? Not necessarily, at least I'm not in a hurry to jump to that conclusion. I think he's just being lazy. It's pretty clear just from the storytelling in this arc, Dressrosa, Fishman Island, etc, that he's no longer putting the care or effort into the story that he did when One Piece was at its peak. He's been doing this a long time, and has gotten comfortable with coasting along themes and ideas he's used to. I'm not intrinsically upset by this, but I am disappointed. And his treatment of his female characters has suffered as well. He COULD have character writing on the same level that he had in East Blue, or the Water 7 saga. He just doesn't, because it's easy for him not to. He's already the best selling manga author ever. He has nothing left he needs to prove. It's clear his views have changed, and so have his standards. Fine, that's fine, that's his choice to make, and certainly there's nothing I can do to change them, nor am I going to judge those who do not see this as a fault.

    But see, here's what I can't stand. There are girls who read One Piece. Little girls. Girls the same age as my young nieces are seeing this, and Oda is directly telling them, "you are inferior, and this is the behavior that will make you acceptable as a woman." I can't accept that. This is outright wrong, on every level. Again, I can't do anything about this, nor can I help those that Oda is be hurting. But I can choose to not support this series, with my money, my views or my time. I'm done. I can't take this anymore. If not reading it is the only way I can take a stand. I won't read it.

  7. #507

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylor View Post
    So... hoo boy. Bit late to the thread (I read chapters based on the official Jump release, not the scans) so I can put down my actual thoughts here, but... okay... I'll just come out and say it...

    The treatment of women in One Piece has finally crossed the line for me now. I might drop the series.

    It's pretty clear at this point that Oda simply does not see women as being equal to men. There's no other way to look at it. If he respected women, he would not have written his characters this way. These views are not uncommon in Japan, I mean heck I know my own country has a long way to go, but considering Oda's status, and how much women in the manga industry are ignored or shut out for entirely arbitrary reasons, that he also shares this view is horrendous.

    Too often now, we're getting the same message, over and over again, in the series. Women are weak. Women can't deal with the same hardships men can. An "evil" woman just needs a man to come along and treat her kindly for her to see that she was wrong. Their role is to be a support, to need saving, to cry. We've seen this with Nami. With Rebecca. With Robin, Shirahoshi, Viola, Tashigi, Hancock, women we were promised would be strong, and each and every time, Oda has lied to his readers. I can't trust him as an author anymore. I just can't.

    Now, do I think he's TRYING to be hateful, or send a message to his female readers? Not necessarily, at least I'm not in a hurry to jump to that conclusion. I think he's just being lazy. It's pretty clear just from the storytelling in this arc, Dressrosa, Fishman Island, etc, that he's no longer putting the care or effort into the story that he did when One Piece was at its peak. He's been doing this a long time, and has gotten comfortable with coasting along themes and ideas he's used to. I'm not intrinsically upset by this, but I am disappointed. And his treatment of his female characters has suffered as well. He COULD have character writing on the same level that he had in East Blue, or the Water 7 saga. He just doesn't, because it's easy for him not to. He's already the best selling manga author ever. He has nothing left he needs to prove. It's clear his views have changed, and so have his standards. Fine, that's fine, that's his choice to make, and certainly there's nothing I can do to change them, nor am I going to judge those who do not see this as a fault.

    But see, here's what I can't stand. There are girls who read One Piece. Little girls. Girls the same age as my young nieces are seeing this, and Oda is directly telling them, "you are inferior, and this is the behavior that will make you acceptable as a woman." I can't accept that. This is outright wrong, on every level. Again, I can't do anything about this, nor can I help those that Oda is be hurting. But I can choose to not support this series, with my money, my views or my time. I'm done. I can't take this anymore. If not reading it is the only way I can take a stand. I won't read it.
    Ok this is arc alone, bad female characters who doesn't need no man
    Big Mom (Yonkou!)
    Brulée
    Amande
    Galette
    Smoothie (Sweet commander ! )

    There are male characters needing help from the heros too.
    Also while the portrayal of women isn't perfect, what "behavior that will make you acceptable as a woman" are you even talking about?

  8. #508
    Flagon Snaggin' Dragon Kaido King of the Beasts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylor View Post
    So... hoo boy. Bit late to the thread (I read chapters based on the official Jump release, not the scans) so I can put down my actual thoughts here, but... okay... I'll just come out and say it...

    The treatment of women in One Piece has finally crossed the line for me now. I might drop the series.

    It's pretty clear at this point that Oda simply does not see women as being equal to men. There's no other way to look at it. If he respected women, he would not have written his characters this way. These views are not uncommon in Japan, I mean heck I know my own country has a long way to go, but considering Oda's status, and how much women in the manga industry are ignored or shut out for entirely arbitrary reasons, that he also shares this view is horrendous.

    Too often now, we're getting the same message, over and over again, in the series. Women are weak. Women can't deal with the same hardships men can. An "evil" woman just needs a man to come along and treat her kindly for her to see that she was wrong. Their role is to be a support, to need saving, to cry. We've seen this with Nami. With Rebecca. With Robin, Shirahoshi, Viola, Tashigi, Hancock, women we were promised would be strong, and each and every time, Oda has lied to his readers. I can't trust him as an author anymore. I just can't.

    Now, do I think he's TRYING to be hateful, or send a message to his female readers? Not necessarily, at least I'm not in a hurry to jump to that conclusion. I think he's just being lazy. It's pretty clear just from the storytelling in this arc, Dressrosa, Fishman Island, etc, that he's no longer putting the care or effort into the story that he did when One Piece was at its peak. He's been doing this a long time, and has gotten comfortable with coasting along themes and ideas he's used to. I'm not intrinsically upset by this, but I am disappointed. And his treatment of his female characters has suffered as well. He COULD have character writing on the same level that he had in East Blue, or the Water 7 saga. He just doesn't, because it's easy for him not to. He's already the best selling manga author ever. He has nothing left he needs to prove. It's clear his views have changed, and so have his standards. Fine, that's fine, that's his choice to make, and certainly there's nothing I can do to change them, nor am I going to judge those who do not see this as a fault.

    But see, here's what I can't stand. There are girls who read One Piece. Little girls. Girls the same age as my young nieces are seeing this, and Oda is directly telling them, "you are inferior, and this is the behavior that will make you acceptable as a woman." I can't accept that. This is outright wrong, on every level. Again, I can't do anything about this, nor can I help those that Oda is be hurting. But I can choose to not support this series, with my money, my views or my time. I'm done. I can't take this anymore. If not reading it is the only way I can take a stand. I won't read it.
    I have always been under the impression that Oda's views on women are shared with more of the Eastern World than the Western one, and that makes sense. I currently read the series because I am fine with that; it has never reached the degree where he has treated his female characters outright despicably. He is simply writing for a target demographic where female action heroes and main antagonists are not the norm. I think expecting him to change these views is a losing battle, given the climate he lives in. If you feel that's still too much for you, then it may be best for you to drop the series, though of course as you can see I'm trying to talk you out of it.

    I would like to point out that I disagree with the notion that Oda's portrayal of female characters was better in the olden days. I can count the number of major female characters from East Blue on one hand (Nami, Kaya, Nojiko, and Bellemere, maybe Kuina and Alvida if you're so inclined). Out of those, only Bellemere really fits this image of badassery that we seem to want all the female characters to fill nowadays. Baroque Works wasn't much better either. Yes, there was Vivi, who did have a crowning moment of awesome, but also spent a major portion of the saga getting beaten and tossed around by enemies who outclassed her from the very beginning. She was never going to be an action hero either. And you have to admit that, no matter how little you like their arcs, Oda makes his females actual characters. Shirahoshi, Tashigi, and Rebecca, among others, had very fleshed out backstories and good reasons for their actions/outlook on life. Pudding will hopefully get there eventually. Did they have action roles? Not really, but not all characters do. Is it true that Oda makes most of his action heroes disproportionately men? Yes, he's writing for people who want that. Now, I'm not going to go ahead and say that creating more female action heroes would be guaranteed to decrease his popularity, but you know what they say, If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    Regarding your feelings about Pudding situation, I'd also like to point out that this is hardly related to her gender, and you know why? It's because it's a very obvious parallel to Sanji's backstory. The two of them both grew up in abusive families, where they were harassed for their physical differences until they finally found redemption from people who legitimately cared about them. Lots of unmanly tears were shed in both cases. That's not to even mention that the two figures that helped Sanji see the light were both women!

    No, most women aren't going to be in huge action fights where they demonstrate badassery (though as Kfunk pointed out, this arc has done a pretty good job in changing the mold with people like Carrot, Brulee, and Big Mom herself). But plenty of them have demonstrated courage and daring in the roles they are in, and I'd call them pretty great people for girls to look up to (well, not the villains of course, lol). Nigh every character has their weak moments, and I guess the females get more flak for them since their contrasting triumphant moments aren't usually as epic as the males', but when it comes to Pudding's case, you can hardly say that she's in this situation now solely because of her gender. Sanji has been the exact same case, and ironically (or maybe fittingly?) he's gotten a ton of flak in this forum for his less-than-badass moments...so I do wonder sometimes about what people really expect from One Piece and how rose-tinted their views of the earlier parts of the series are.
    Last edited by Kaido King of the Beasts; April 18th, 2017 at 05:28 AM.



    Spoiler:

  9. #509

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylor View Post
    So... hoo boy. Bit late to the thread (I read chapters based on the official Jump release, not the scans) so I can put down my actual thoughts here, but... okay... I'll just come out and say it...

    The treatment of women in One Piece has finally crossed the line for me now. I might drop the series.

    It's pretty clear at this point that Oda simply does not see women as being equal to men. There's no other way to look at it. If he respected women, he would not have written his characters this way. These views are not uncommon in Japan, I mean heck I know my own country has a long way to go, but considering Oda's status, and how much women in the manga industry are ignored or shut out for entirely arbitrary reasons, that he also shares this view is horrendous.

    Too often now, we're getting the same message, over and over again, in the series. Women are weak. Women can't deal with the same hardships men can. An "evil" woman just needs a man to come along and treat her kindly for her to see that she was wrong. Their role is to be a support, to need saving, to cry. We've seen this with Nami. With Rebecca. With Robin, Shirahoshi, Viola, Tashigi, Hancock, women we were promised would be strong, and each and every time, Oda has lied to his readers. I can't trust him as an author anymore. I just can't.

    Now, do I think he's TRYING to be hateful, or send a message to his female readers? Not necessarily, at least I'm not in a hurry to jump to that conclusion. I think he's just being lazy. It's pretty clear just from the storytelling in this arc, Dressrosa, Fishman Island, etc, that he's no longer putting the care or effort into the story that he did when One Piece was at its peak. He's been doing this a long time, and has gotten comfortable with coasting along themes and ideas he's used to. I'm not intrinsically upset by this, but I am disappointed. And his treatment of his female characters has suffered as well. He COULD have character writing on the same level that he had in East Blue, or the Water 7 saga. He just doesn't, because it's easy for him not to. He's already the best selling manga author ever. He has nothing left he needs to prove. It's clear his views have changed, and so have his standards. Fine, that's fine, that's his choice to make, and certainly there's nothing I can do to change them, nor am I going to judge those who do not see this as a fault.

    But see, here's what I can't stand. There are girls who read One Piece. Little girls. Girls the same age as my young nieces are seeing this, and Oda is directly telling them, "you are inferior, and this is the behavior that will make you acceptable as a woman." I can't accept that. This is outright wrong, on every level. Again, I can't do anything about this, nor can I help those that Oda is be hurting. But I can choose to not support this series, with my money, my views or my time. I'm done. I can't take this anymore. If not reading it is the only way I can take a stand. I won't read it.

    Hidden:

  10. #510

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaido King of the Beasts View Post
    So you think Big Mom is a stepping stone to Kaido, even though she holds just as much power and influence as he does?
    Multiple choice Test: Fill in with perfect circles please...

    1. "When X appeared for the first time, I said that Luffy can't defeat such a strong character yet. And I'm yet to know how Luffy would defeat X.

    Probably my audience will not be satisfied if the reason for defeating X is just because Luffy's punch is so strong. Luffy and I have to find a solution somehow."

    Which character was Oda Eiichiro, author of One Piece referring to....

    A. Big Mom
    B. Coby
    C.Bobbins
    D.Duval
    E. Kaido

    2. Why did Pudding not shoot Sanji in the grey matter so she could give him three eyes too and then everyone could laugh at him at the party?

    A. She is a terrible character anyway, you wished the jelly bean hit her instead?
    B. You don't know! Cause not even Katakuri could do anything. "There is no way to stop this?"
    C. Just Bad writing as usual by Oda?
    D. Or did Oda foreshadow Pudding really caring for Sanji.
    That she is really kind? Due to her crying and smiling after telling Luffy and Nami the plan to snipe Sanji.
    Showing she actually cares and is a good person?

    3. How hard did you laugh when Mom's gunmen questioned if they should stick to the plan [Executing the Vinsmokes] since Sanji isn't shot?

    A. You laughed so loud the librarian told you to "shut up!"?
    B. You chuckled cause Mom's minions have portrayed foolishness all arc?
    C. You just gave up on having any faith in mom and her minions and just want to go to Wano where Kaido is.
    This didn't make you laugh but it gave you a smile?
    D. You laughed because you are a one piece fanboy and know there is a reasonable excuse for this incompetence.
    That you can and will create one to justify them?

    Bring to front of desk when completed.
    Last edited by Screwtape; April 17th, 2017 at 07:20 PM.

  11. #511
    21st Century Schizoid Man S.C. Amigo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylor View Post
    So... hoo boy. Bit late to the thread (I read chapters based on the official Jump release, not the scans) so I can put down my actual thoughts here, but... okay... I'll just come out and say it...

    The treatment of women in One Piece has finally crossed the line for me now. I might drop the series.

    It's pretty clear at this point that Oda simply does not see women as being equal to men. There's no other way to look at it. If he respected women, he would not have written his characters this way. These views are not uncommon in Japan, I mean heck I know my own country has a long way to go, but considering Oda's status, and how much women in the manga industry are ignored or shut out for entirely arbitrary reasons, that he also shares this view is horrendous.

    Too often now, we're getting the same message, over and over again, in the series. Women are weak. Women can't deal with the same hardships men can. An "evil" woman just needs a man to come along and treat her kindly for her to see that she was wrong. Their role is to be a support, to need saving, to cry. We've seen this with Nami. With Rebecca. With Robin, Shirahoshi, Viola, Tashigi, Hancock, women we were promised would be strong, and each and every time, Oda has lied to his readers. I can't trust him as an author anymore. I just can't.

    Now, do I think he's TRYING to be hateful, or send a message to his female readers? Not necessarily, at least I'm not in a hurry to jump to that conclusion. I think he's just being lazy. It's pretty clear just from the storytelling in this arc, Dressrosa, Fishman Island, etc, that he's no longer putting the care or effort into the story that he did when One Piece was at its peak. He's been doing this a long time, and has gotten comfortable with coasting along themes and ideas he's used to. I'm not intrinsically upset by this, but I am disappointed. And his treatment of his female characters has suffered as well. He COULD have character writing on the same level that he had in East Blue, or the Water 7 saga. He just doesn't, because it's easy for him not to. He's already the best selling manga author ever. He has nothing left he needs to prove. It's clear his views have changed, and so have his standards. Fine, that's fine, that's his choice to make, and certainly there's nothing I can do to change them, nor am I going to judge those who do not see this as a fault.

    But see, here's what I can't stand. There are girls who read One Piece. Little girls. Girls the same age as my young nieces are seeing this, and Oda is directly telling them, "you are inferior, and this is the behavior that will make you acceptable as a woman." I can't accept that. This is outright wrong, on every level. Again, I can't do anything about this, nor can I help those that Oda is be hurting. But I can choose to not support this series, with my money, my views or my time. I'm done. I can't take this anymore. If not reading it is the only way I can take a stand. I won't read it.
    The teenage girls of Japan appreciate your noble sacrifice.

  12. #512
    Flagon Snaggin' Dragon Kaido King of the Beasts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwtape View Post
    Multiple choice Test: Fill in with perfect circles please...

    1. "When X appeared for the first time, I said that Luffy can't defeat such a strong character yet. And I'm yet to know how Luffy would defeat X.

    Probably my audience will not be satisfied if the reason for defeating X is just because Luffy's punch is so strong. Luffy and I have to find a solution somehow."

    Which character was Oda Eiichiro, author of One Piece referring to....

    A. Big Mom
    B. Coby
    C.Bobbins
    D.Duval
    E. Kaido
    E

    2. Why did Pudding not shoot Sanji in the grey matter so she could give him three eyes too and then everyone could laugh at him at the party?

    A. She is a terrible character anyway, you wished the jelly bean hit her instead?
    B. You don't know! Cause not even Katakuri could do anything. "There is no way to stop this?"
    C. Just Bad writing as usual by Oda?
    D. Or did Oda foreshadow Pudding really caring for Sanji.
    That she is really kind? Due to her crying and smiling after telling Luffy and Nami the plan to snipe Sanji
    Showing she actually cares and is a good person?
    E, none of the above. She intended to use a trait of hers to induce a psychological effect that everyone else fell into, which she hated but knew was useful. She was caught off-guard when that effect not only failed on Sanji, but he actually complimented it.

    3. How hard did you laugh when Mom's gunmen questioned if they should stick to the plan [Executing the Vinsmokes] since Sanji isn't shot?

    A. You laughed so loud the librarian told you to "shut up!"?
    B. You chuckled cause Mom's minions have portrayed foolishness all arc?
    C. You just gave up on having any faith in mom and her minions and just want to go to Wano where Kaido is.
    This didn't make you laugh but it gave you a smile?
    D. You laughed because you are a one piece fanboy and know there is a reasonable excuse for this incompetence.
    That you can and will create one to justify them?
    E, I didn't laugh because that's...a legitimate reaction for them to have? And wasn't played for comedy? They're people, not machines. A development like this is obviously going to worry them, doesn't mean they're incompetent.

    Bring to front of desk when completed.
    Thanks, Professor. Though I'm not sure you ever really taught me why Big Mom is a lesser threat than Kaido, I spent thousands of dollars for this??? Guess a philosophy major wasn't the way to go.



    Spoiler:

  13. #513
    Discovered Stowaway andre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylor View Post
    So... hoo boy. Bit late to the thread (I read chapters based on the official Jump release, not the scans) so I can put down my actual thoughts here, but... okay... I'll just come out and say it...

    The treatment of women in One Piece has finally crossed the line for me now. I might drop the series.

    It's pretty clear at this point that Oda simply does not see women as being equal to men. There's no other way to look at it. If he respected women, he would not have written his characters this way. These views are not uncommon in Japan, I mean heck I know my own country has a long way to go, but considering Oda's status, and how much women in the manga industry are ignored or shut out for entirely arbitrary reasons, that he also shares this view is horrendous.

    Too often now, we're getting the same message, over and over again, in the series. Women are weak. Women can't deal with the same hardships men can. An "evil" woman just needs a man to come along and treat her kindly for her to see that she was wrong. Their role is to be a support, to need saving, to cry. We've seen this with Nami. With Rebecca. With Robin, Shirahoshi, Viola, Tashigi, Hancock, women we were promised would be strong, and each and every time, Oda has lied to his readers. I can't trust him as an author anymore. I just can't.

    Now, do I think he's TRYING to be hateful, or send a message to his female readers? Not necessarily, at least I'm not in a hurry to jump to that conclusion. I think he's just being lazy. It's pretty clear just from the storytelling in this arc, Dressrosa, Fishman Island, etc, that he's no longer putting the care or effort into the story that he did when One Piece was at its peak. He's been doing this a long time, and has gotten comfortable with coasting along themes and ideas he's used to. I'm not intrinsically upset by this, but I am disappointed. And his treatment of his female characters has suffered as well. He COULD have character writing on the same level that he had in East Blue, or the Water 7 saga. He just doesn't, because it's easy for him not to. He's already the best selling manga author ever. He has nothing left he needs to prove. It's clear his views have changed, and so have his standards. Fine, that's fine, that's his choice to make, and certainly there's nothing I can do to change them, nor am I going to judge those who do not see this as a fault.

    But see, here's what I can't stand. There are girls who read One Piece. Little girls. Girls the same age as my young nieces are seeing this, and Oda is directly telling them, "you are inferior, and this is the behavior that will make you acceptable as a woman." I can't accept that. This is outright wrong, on every level. Again, I can't do anything about this, nor can I help those that Oda is be hurting. But I can choose to not support this series, with my money, my views or my time. I'm done. I can't take this anymore. If not reading it is the only way I can take a stand. I won't read it.
    I just want to reply to this for some reason. Great chapter btw

  14. #514

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    TBH, most shonen like One Piece isn't well known for it's female characters. It's a *shonen* for a good reason, it comes with the territory and cultural views. With that said, I'll say that not every female in One Piece has to be a rough, tough, fighting machine like some people want them to be. Some exceptions come to my mind like Bellemere and Big Mom, but they have their own reasons for why they get violent when the situation calls for it. Rebecca never wanted to fight, she just wanted a happy life with her mom and dad, Scarlet and Kyros, until Mingo came along. Cry-hoshi had her reasons for not outright hating Hody's guts and wanting revenge against him for the death of her mother unlike Neptune, who was ready to gut him like a fish. The only valid complaint I can agree with is Tashigi.
    The face of a Straw Hat.

  15. #515

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylor View Post
    So... hoo boy. Bit late to the thread (I read chapters based on the official Jump release, not the scans) so I can put down my actual thoughts here, but... okay... I'll just come out and say it...

    The treatment of women in One Piece has finally crossed the line for me now. I might drop the series.

    It's pretty clear at this point that Oda simply does not see women as being equal to men. There's no other way to look at it. If he respected women, he would not have written his characters this way. These views are not uncommon in Japan, I mean heck I know my own country has a long way to go, but considering Oda's status, and how much women in the manga industry are ignored or shut out for entirely arbitrary reasons, that he also shares this view is horrendous.

    Too often now, we're getting the same message, over and over again, in the series. Women are weak. Women can't deal with the same hardships men can. An "evil" woman just needs a man to come along and treat her kindly for her to see that she was wrong. Their role is to be a support, to need saving, to cry. We've seen this with Nami. With Rebecca. With Robin, Shirahoshi, Viola, Tashigi, Hancock, women we were promised would be strong, and each and every time, Oda has lied to his readers. I can't trust him as an author anymore. I just can't.

    Now, do I think he's TRYING to be hateful, or send a message to his female readers? Not necessarily, at least I'm not in a hurry to jump to that conclusion. I think he's just being lazy. It's pretty clear just from the storytelling in this arc, Dressrosa, Fishman Island, etc, that he's no longer putting the care or effort into the story that he did when One Piece was at its peak. He's been doing this a long time, and has gotten comfortable with coasting along themes and ideas he's used to. I'm not intrinsically upset by this, but I am disappointed. And his treatment of his female characters has suffered as well. He COULD have character writing on the same level that he had in East Blue, or the Water 7 saga. He just doesn't, because it's easy for him not to. He's already the best selling manga author ever. He has nothing left he needs to prove. It's clear his views have changed, and so have his standards. Fine, that's fine, that's his choice to make, and certainly there's nothing I can do to change them, nor am I going to judge those who do not see this as a fault.

    But see, here's what I can't stand. There are girls who read One Piece. Little girls. Girls the same age as my young nieces are seeing this, and Oda is directly telling them, "you are inferior, and this is the behavior that will make you acceptable as a woman." I can't accept that. This is outright wrong, on every level. Again, I can't do anything about this, nor can I help those that Oda is be hurting. But I can choose to not support this series, with my money, my views or my time. I'm done. I can't take this anymore. If not reading it is the only way I can take a stand. I won't read it.
    You just know if Luffy did indeed beat Big Mom. A character in Wano will say something like just because you beat Big Mom don't get cocky she was only a woman after all.

  16. #516
    Don't know what to say... Monquito's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Underworld1991 View Post
    You just know if Luffy did indeed beat Big Mom. A character in Wano will say something like just because you beat Big Mom don't get cocky she was only a woman after all.
    aayy lmao. Nope.








  17. #517
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Monquito View Post
    aayy lmao. Nope.
    Well to be fair, Wano Country IS supposed to be sexist...

    Spoiler:
    "Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."

  18. #518
    Don't know what to say... Monquito's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    Well to be fair, Wano Country IS supposed to be sexist...
    wow, 'cause is japan-based??








  19. #519
    Researcher X-Ray's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Monquito View Post
    wow, 'cause is japan-based??
    well its just whats been shown to us. When Kinemon first met Sanji (Nami's body ) he acted disrespectful and well you know the rest againsf women. He even says that women are not allowed to do certain things ( I cant quite remember what exactly he referred to )
    What reason would there be to interfere with a man's departure?
    Monkey D. Dragon

    Nintendo ID: 0.o.MUGIWARA.o.0

  20. #520

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaido King of the Beasts View Post
    Observation alone doesn't win battles. If the two were to fight, they would have to get physical at least at some point, and I dunno if Sanji could outmatch Katakuri in that regard. A full observation-based battle would essentially revolve around usage of the technique before someone gets disadvantaged and then one-shotted, and I seriously doubt someone like Katakuri would go down with one blow (and no, Cracker did not go down with one blow).
    But sanji also has the advantage because he is cook, so he is perfect to fight the food based dfs this arc. If he doesn't get proper battle now, then when? This arc is one giant food arc. It fits better then it will ever fit for cook sanji.
    The return of knifemanship sanji. This time with proper enemy instead of Wanze small gag character.

    And it's the time sanji could show his rankyaku. Maybe he won't even use actual knifes, just show his rankyaku.

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