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Thread: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

  1. #541

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by FolhaS View Post
    You're assuming it must be solved with one shot because of Observation but if you recall Skypea not every mantra user was one-shotted. They can also have physical resistence.

    I don't wanna get into the argument everyone else is having about power-levels but the latest developments seem point to Sanji and Katakuri facing off and it being centered in Observation.
    Wether you think Sanji can face and/or beat him on his own is up to you.

    I'm personally hoping that something akin to Greg's prediction happens: while everybody is fighting on that wedding royal rumble Sanji will also have to cook some massive/epic dish
    My point was that people seemed to be waving off Katakuri's physical threat as a sweet commander by saying that the fight would be centered in observation. You yourself kinda supported my counterpoint lol; Regardless of how much Observation is used, Sanji will still need to outmatch Katakuri physically to beat him, and I'm not sure he can do that.

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  2. #542
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by ARTEMlS View Post
    On first thought, I didn't like the Pudding development, but on second thought I actually like it. I like the theory that her third eye doesn't have that special ability and therefore she did some memory manipulations. Maybe Pudding isn't even from a special race and instead it's just some random weird mutation and that's why everyone bullied her and freaked out. Considering this, Greg's overall theory still has a quite good chance to be really spot on (just with some minor modifications).
    Doesn't that theory make pudding the real villain? Like after the sanji scene, pudding is more likely to get redeemed then stay as villain that will get punished by BM. Sanji will for sure want to protect her now that he knows she is not that bad and didn't shoot him, they have similar past.

  3. #543
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by uniaka ikuzakas View Post
    Doesn't that theory make pudding the real villain? Like after the sanji scene, pudding is more likely to get redeemed then stay as villain that will get punished by BM. Sanji will for sure want to protect her now that he knows she is not that bad and didn't shoot him, they have similar past.
    Arcs can go on without defeating a main villain and still success at main's character targets(Impel Down)
    And just like Impel Down, WCI is just a detour from the real battle against a Yonkou. Pudding for now, seems to be a clear key character, her, her memory ability and third-eye powers could change things to terms of peace between the SH's and the BM pirates easily, if not, then I have no idea why is Oda giving her so much focus and development.








  4. #544

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaido King of the Beasts View Post
    My point was that people seemed to be waving off Katakuri's physical threat as a sweet commander by saying that the fight would be centered in observation. You yourself kinda supported my counterpoint lol; Regardless of how much Observation is used, Sanji will still need to outmatch Katakuri physically to beat him, and I'm not sure he can do that.
    I'd argue that we haven't got much info on how Katakuri fights.

    I obviously believe him to be a power house, he's a high ranking member of Mama's crew, but his biggest strengh may very well be Observation and Sanji's Observation was good enough to surprise him.
    And Sanji is still part of the Monster Trio. People have been using Sanji's unfortunate encounters with Vergo and DoFlamingo to base their "Sanji's not strong enough" opinions but if you see those fights from a story prespective it's obvious Sanji would never get much of an upper hand against them. Both of them were only defeated by captains, Luffy and Law, and Sanji got the short stick by being used in both cases as a hype building stone.

    I remember people saying DoFlamingo wouldn't be defeated in Dressrosa because of how much hype he had gotten by that point yet Luffy pulled a few tricks and won.
    I myself was surprised that when everyone was telling Luffy to run from Fujitora both him and Zoro said: Nah, no more running. This is why we trained.
    Sanji is ripe for a scene like that, going up against an opponent that seems above his paygrade. Especially after Zoro cut a mountain into pieces, using his mastery of haki.


    All that being said, it's still possible Sanji will not fight him solo.
    He has tag-teamed with Jimbe before, he could fight along side his sibilings or father for a classic acknowledgement scene.
    We'll see.

  5. #545

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    A battle with Observation Haki sounds a lot like that Toriko Vs Staa fight during the Cooking Fest.

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  6. #546

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Kishido View Post
    I still say pre TS is far better as post TS arcs so far... Besides Zou I don't have the same level of feelings towards the introduced characters and the back stories.

    And Dressrosa was one damn drag of an arc.

    But I have high hopes for Wano... but so I had for Fishmen Island
    Nothing Post TS has touched Alabasta, Skypiea Ennies Lobby or Sabaody for me but I can easily see WCI being in my top 10 and there's a decent chance it get's to #4 or #5, I really feel like this arc has a lot of heart in it, Im just really invested in the characters here the most Ive been since TB/Sabaody
    Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:
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  7. #547
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by FolhaS View Post
    I'd argue that we haven't got much info on how Katakuri fights.

    I obviously believe him to be a power house, he's a high ranking member of Mama's crew, but his biggest strengh may very well be Observation and Sanji's Observation was good enough to surprise him.
    And Sanji is still part of the Monster Trio. People have been using Sanji's unfortunate encounters with Vergo and DoFlamingo to base their "Sanji's not strong enough" opinions but if you see those fights from a story prespective it's obvious Sanji would never get much of an upper hand against them. Both of them were only defeated by captains, Luffy and Law, and Sanji got the short stick by being used in both cases as a hype building stone.

    I remember people saying DoFlamingo wouldn't be defeated in Dressrosa because of how much hype he had gotten by that point yet Luffy pulled a few tricks and won.
    I myself was surprised that when everyone was telling Luffy to run from Fujitora both him and Zoro said: Nah, no more running. This is why we trained.
    Sanji is ripe for a scene like that, going up against an opponent that seems above his paygrade. Especially after Zoro cut a mountain into pieces, using his mastery of haki.


    All that being said, it's still possible Sanji will not fight him solo.
    He has tag-teamed with Jimbe before, he could fight along side his sibilings or father for a classic acknowledgement scene.
    We'll see.
    I don't know man, DogTooth seems to be a bigger threat than Cracker, he's been saved to be revealed lastly, with the highest bounty ever seen in the series, badass design(pretty rare lately). aand I don't remember an arc on which a Luffy's subordinate defeated a bigger threat than Luffys opponent, saying Sanji can or will defeat DogTooth can only mean the main character is defeating a bigger threat, and that's Big Mom, which is also a nope.

    Quote Originally Posted by Long John Silvers Rayleigh View Post
    Nothing Post TS has touched Alabasta, Skypiea Ennies Lobby or Sabaody for me but I can easily see WCI being in my top 10 and there's a decent chance it get's to #4 or #5, I really feel like this arc has a lot of heart in it, Im just really invested in the characters here the most Ive been since TB/Sabaody
    I agree with this, WCI is a very adventurous place, to which the outcome is the most unpredictable thing we ever had before, just look at all us discussing a lot of stuff we're unsure of. The most interesting thing is how instead of each chapter being directed to lead the arc to a certain direction, it just keeps being more and more confusing, the Tamatebako not being opened, Judge's role, Capone's target, Jinbe risking Gyojin Island, it all seems too fishy.
    Last edited by Monquito; April 18th, 2017 at 12:01 PM.








  8. #548

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Long John Silvers Rayleigh View Post
    Nothing Post TS has touched Alabasta, Skypiea Ennies Lobby or Sabaody for me but I can easily see WCI being in my top 10 and there's a decent chance it get's to #4 or #5, I really feel like this arc has a lot of heart in it, Im just really invested in the characters here the most Ive been since TB/Sabaody
    Arlong Park is still in my top 3... Loved that... The first time ever I got such a feeling for the series.

    I already said it in the past even if I know some people do not like my view at it... But I think Oda is overcomplicating the things in arcs... At least in Dressrosa.

    He should go back to the more straight forward story telling while starting to solve old misteries and not bring new ones in.

    While in the aftermatch I get the fleet alliance being built... Has it really be needed not only bring back Sabo, make the alliance of countless of new introduced characters but also to tell us different flashbacks?
    That's my biggest con... We had Rebecca, Thunder Soldier, King Rikku, Vioa, Dwarves and Law... While I get they were connected I never had the feeling that they had to stretch it out... At the end I hasn't cared for any of the sob stories by maybe Corazon.

    Arabasta, like other pre ts arcs, was great cuz it was simple... Vivi searched for people to free her country... Small sob story... Luffy went in punched the fuck out of Croc and we moved on.

    Dresrosa was all over the place... Again i get world building and all... But it was too much for me

    Zou was gret cuz you could feel the characters... Jack did shit to them and that's it... No Carrot, Pedro or Wando side sob stories but them as whole. Still they are far mroe rememberable as the likes as Rebecca.

    WCI does it better as well even if I think some chapters have been dragged... And the theme of the characters and world is a tad to cheesy in my eyes... Even if similar to the theme ot Thriller Bark.

    Just my opinion... Even if I now hardcore Oda-fan like *won't name them* will try to justify everything Oda does.

    PS
    Fishmen Island was one big disappointment but this is maybe my own fault of having so much hope for it... The characters were boring and just used as hype for the NW... But well that's it
    Punk Hazard was just well... Forgetable

    EDIT
    Or maybe I become too old to enjoy stuff like this and will end like Ivotas and some others...

  9. #549

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylor View Post
    I won't read it.
    ....Ummm ok.... i guess.

    Remember the time when people on the internet weren't full of self-entitled babies that started crying every time a writer didn't pander to popular social views? And instead went with their own story, and what they wanted to tell?

    I mean i got problems with Oda's female characters, and they have gone down over the years, but please don't bring some self-righteous social bullshit in here just because you refuse to accept any perspective that doesn't wank your personal beliefs.
    Last edited by HeartOfDarkness; April 18th, 2017 at 12:22 PM.

  10. #550
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Saying Sanji is not ready to fight a commander because he could no put up a fight against Doflamingo makes no sense,
    Because during the war Doflamingo just went around using commanders as puppets.

    Luffy having to fight for 11 hours against cracker does not mean much either cause his ability was inconvinient, if anything it shows luffys growth because Cracker Armament Haki did not pierce him. And after he waited for his haki to return after g4 he could still move and fought agaist the army that captures him.

  11. #551

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by uniaka ikuzakas View Post
    Doesn't that theory make pudding the real villain? Like after the sanji scene, pudding is more likely to get redeemed then stay as villain that will get punished by BM. Sanji will for sure want to protect her now that he knows she is not that bad and didn't shoot him, they have similar past.
    That's actually a point which has to be modified. Pudding isn't necessarily evil anymore, whereas she and her memory powers still are the source of what has happened. I liked the idea someone has made (with some comparison to Alice in Wonderland) where Pudding is both culprit and her own victim - as she herself has in the end become completely insane and therefore both good and evil persona end up as an act after all.
    Forum user Bartholemew Bear passed away in a very moving and touching way. I, ARTEMlS, therefore carry on the Will of DArth for good unto its final fulfilment.

  12. #552

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    I don't know how much of a minority I'm in, but I really like the change in approach post-timeskip. The arcs so far have all been increasing a scale for a huge climax, which is appropriate if we want to have a big and emotional ending arc that really ties everything up in the story. Marineford worked because it plunged Luffy into everything the world had in store for him, and taught him that if he wanted to become the freest man in the world, he would have to be able to deal with everything the world had to offer.

    Also, when it comes to arcs being reviewed, the only ones pre-timeskip that have been pretty much beyond reproach here are Arlong Park, Alabasta, and Jaya. People have even outright hated stuff like Enies Lobby and Marineford. As a complete package, yeah it was pretty much all great, but the nitpicks do come in great succession with most individual arcs, and I'm thinking it'll be the same case with the post-timeskip, once everything is wrapped up. Plus, Arlong Park and Alabasta both share something in common, which none of the post timeskip arcs so far share, and I'd like to delve into that.

    I do find it a little unfair to compare Dressrosa, WCI, etc. to arcs like Alabasta and Enies Lobby. Both of the latter two are the climaxes of two huge sagas, while right now in the New World we're still in the middle of a singe story that's unfolding. So Wano Country is really going to be more in the same vein as Alabasta and Enies Lobby. Now, I'm not trying to put Dressrosa, WCI, etc. in the completely same vein as arcs like Little Garden or Davy Back Fight, since it is pretty evident that despite not really being climaxes they have some pretty big stakes. But they are not the magnum opuses (opi?) of overarching stories, so I do not really expect them to pull out all the stops like arcs like Alabasta and Enies Lobby would, and I think comparing them to arcs of that nature has caused them to suffer in some ways. Are they perfect? No, and arcs like Jaya proved that they could stand with the "big boys". But I think a huge reason why people complained about Dressrosa's length was because Dressrosa was a simple stepping stone to much, much bigger stuff. If Dressrosa had been the big resolution to a saga, not as many people would be railing to get a move on because we wouldn't really know what we'd be moving on to. And honestly, it really could have filled that role, with not even that many story tweaks to boot. So yes, I guess I've found something in the post-timeskip to criticize - Oda hasn't completely mastered balancing increased worldbuilding and epic action in arcs that aren't big finales yet. But I do trust he is on the right track, and so far WCI has given me a lot of reason to believe that, given how obvious it is that Oda knows what he needed to fix in Dressrosa and is applying it here.
    Last edited by Kaido King of the Beasts; April 18th, 2017 at 12:55 PM.

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  13. #553

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    The only way I think I could drop the manga if Oda turns out to be a monster like Koichi Sugiyama who some crazy political denier.
    Last edited by Jaime; April 18th, 2017 at 01:45 PM.

  14. #554

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaido King of the Beasts View Post
    I don't know how much of a minority I'm in, but I really like the change in approach post-timeskip. The arcs so far have all been increasing a scale for a huge climax, which is appropriate if we want to have a big and emotional ending arc that really ties everything up in the story. Marineford worked because it plunged Luffy into everything the world had in store for him, and taught him that if he wanted to become the freest man in the world, he would have to be able to deal with everything the world had to offer.

    Also, when it comes to arcs being reviewed, the only ones pre-timeskip that have been pretty much beyond reproach here are Arlong Park, Alabasta, and Jaya. People have even outright hated stuff like Enies Lobby and Marineford. As a complete package, yeah it was pretty much all great, but the nitpicks do come in great succession with most individual arcs, and I'm thinking it'll be the same case with the post-timeskip, once everything is wrapped up. Plus, Arlong Park and Alabasta both share something in common, which none of the post timeskip arcs so far share, and I'd like to delve into that.

    I do find it a little unfair to compare Dressrosa, WCI, etc. to arcs like Alabasta and Enies Lobby. Both of the latter two are the climaxes of two huge sagas, while right now in the New World we're still in the middle of a singe story that's unfolding. So Wano Country is really going to be more in the same vein as Alabasta and Enies Lobby. Now, I'm not trying to put Dressrosa, WCI, etc. in the completely same vein as arcs like Little Garden or Davy Back Fight, since it is pretty evident that despite not really being climaxes they have some pretty big stakes. But they are not the magnum opuses (opi?) of overarching stories, so I do not really expect them to pull out all the stops like arcs like Alabasta and Enies Lobby would, and I think comparing them to arcs of that nature has caused them to suffer in some ways. Are they perfect? No, and arcs like Jaya proved that they could stand with the "big boys". But I think a huge reason why people complained about Dressrosa's length was because Dressrosa was a simple stepping stone to much, much bigger stuff. If Dressrosa had been the big resolution to a saga, not as many people would be railing to get a move on because we wouldn't really know what we'd be moving on to. And honestly, it really could have filled that role, with not even that many story tweaks to boot. So yes, I guess I've found something in the post-timeskip to criticize - Oda hasn't completely mastered balancing increased worldbuilding and epic action in arcs that aren't big finales yet. But I do trust he is on the right track, and so far WCI has given me a lot of reason to believe that, given how obvious it is that Oda knows what he needed to fix in Dressrosa and is applying it here.
    You can also add me to your minority. While I enjoyed the simpler stories for the arcs for pre-timeskip, I'm loving the bigger scale and standards that are being set in the New World. The big, emotional ending to Fishman Island is one of the many reasons I love that arc to death and I'm not ashamed to say it.
    The face of a Straw Hat.

  15. #555

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaido King of the Beasts View Post
    E


    E, none of the above. She intended to use a trait of hers to induce a psychological effect that everyone else fell into, which she hated but knew was useful. She was caught off-guard when that effect not only failed on Sanji, but he actually complimented it.


    E, I didn't laugh because that's...a legitimate reaction for them to have? And wasn't played for comedy? They're people, not machines. A development like this is obviously going to worry them, doesn't mean they're incompetent.


    Thanks, Professor. Though I'm not sure you ever really taught me why Big Mom is a lesser threat than Kaido, I spent thousands of dollars for this??? Guess a philosophy major wasn't the way to go.
    Oda stating he wrote Kaido's intro so strong even he doesn't know how Luffy is going to beat him legitimately. He didn't say nor give hype like this for Mom in story and out of story. I knew you would give fan boyish answers for Puddings out of nowhere breakdown. Heck, it was shallow words by Sanji and she just falters like she heard the Sermon on the Mount. Baptism of bad writing, instant conversion folks. The gunmen; Mom continued with the plan to execute Sanji, her gunmen should have continued with wasting the Smokes. At the end of the day, Mom wants all of em dead. They know this. For Emperor pirates they look like rookies...Capone the "rook" has more grit...Oda has been making the Mom pirates stupidity a convenience all arc.

  16. #556

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwtape View Post
    Oda stating he wrote Kaido's intro so strong even he doesn't know how Luffy is going to beat him legitimately. He didn't say nor give hype like this for Mom in story and out of story.
    And yet Big Mom has been at a stalemate with him for years. Hell, we know that Kaido's been defeated by other Yonko, and given that Big Mom's been a force in the New World since at least the time of Roger, it's very possible that she could have handed him some of those defeats. Oda is addressing this about Kaido not simply to hype him up, but because Kaido's upcoming defeat is going to be a major plot point. It's what the entire New World saga, with the exception of Fishman Island and this arc, has been building up to. If anything, this only indicates that Big Mom isn't gonna get defeated at the end of this arc. For Oda to establish Big Mom as an equal to Kaido but then go ahead and make Kaido a whole other level entirely is wildly inconsistent and nonsensical, and Oda doesn't deal in that trade.

    I knew you would give fan boyish answers for Puddings out of nowhere breakdown. Heck, it was shallow words by Sanji and she just falters like she heard the Sermon on the Mount. Baptism of bad writing, instant conversion folks.
    OK now this is just ignorant. My answers for Pudding's behavior were not based on my "fanboy" tendencies, they were based on the chapter I read, and I hope you are doing the same, but oftentimes it seems like you read the chapter until you find something you don't like, then press your Caps Lock key before going to apforums. One would only call it "out of nowhere" if they missed the very prominent flashback accompanying it, and Big Mom's objectification of Pudding for her abilities since the beginning, and the fact that Pudding very clearly reacted in shock and confusion when Sanji was not affected by her third eye.

    Now, I'm gonna throw you a bone here: I don't think this was very good writing, at least in its current state. I haven't felt inclined to decry it because this isn't the end of the arc and Pudding's character arc has the legitimate possibility of closing in a satisfying fashion. Basing my entire opinions on an incomplete development from a single chapter is extremely flawed. The only reason I'm defending it this much is because you seem to be completely ignorant of Pudding's reasons for acting like this. As soon as you saw it and didn't really like it, you immediately put a blanket of bad writing on it and didn't look at it at all? Something can make sense in the story and yet still not be written well, and this is one example. The two are not mutually exclusive.

    Sanji doesn't need a speech to appeal to her. Robin didn't need to explain the thought process that made her want to fight for her freedom instead of giving in, and it's the same deal here. More is not always better, and sometimes simple gestures are all that is needed to get a thought-provoking reaction. Naruto's given tons of speeches to villains to reason them back to the light, but most if not all of them were trash. Luffy didn't say a word as he put his Straw Hat on Nami's head and went into Arlong Park to punch shit up.

    Also, I do need to point out that Pudding is not redeemed. She's acting out of turn, and on impulse. She has yet to make any sort of long-term decision, and so your derision of this "instant conversion" is baseless.

    The gunmen; Mom continued with the plan to execute Sanji, her gunmen should have continued with wasting the Smokes. At the end of the day, Mom wants all of em dead. They know this. For Emperor pirates they look like rookies...Capone the "rook" has more grit...Oda has been making the Mom pirates stupidity a convenience all arc.
    First off, Big Mom is not doing anything, she's standing there shocked and confused just like everyone else. Yes, Big Mom wants the Vinsmokes killed. No, "wasting" them out of the blue is not the intention. It's a carefully laid out and meticulous plan - Sanji is going to be shot first, and then BM's crew will gun down the Vinsmokes. Not only would taking out the family while Sanji is alive create an wild card in Sanji, but it would also cause chaos within the ceremony since everyone will be aware of what's going on yet the job is not finished. By systematically taking out Sanji first, then his family, the BM Pirates will be able to execute this operation efficiently, giving them the chance to explain their actions to the guests while they're still confused and before panic kicks in. Plus, you saw what happened when Katakuri took rash action against Sanji. What you're suggesting simply wouldn't work - it would be like if Luffy and Bege decided to get things done and over with and just had Luffy pop out whenever. There's a time window they need to give themselves an advantage. "Grit" is an admirable trait, but without brains no plan of this nature is going to succeed.
    Last edited by Kaido King of the Beasts; April 18th, 2017 at 03:32 PM.

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  17. #557
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaido King of the Beasts View Post
    And yet Big Mom has been at a stalemate with him for years. Hell, we know that Kaido's been defeated by other Yonko, and given that Big Mom's been a force in the New World since at least the time of Roger, it's very possible that she could have handed him some of those defeats. Oda is addressing this about Kaido not simply to hype him up, but because Kaido's upcoming defeat is going to be a major plot point. It's what the entire New World saga, with the exception of Fishman Island and this arc, has been building up to. If anything, this only indicates that Big Mom isn't gonna get defeated at the end of this arc. For Oda to establish Big Mom as an equal to Kaido but then go ahead and make Kaido a whole other level entirely is wildly inconsistent and nonsensical, and Oda doesn't deal in that trade.


    OK now this is just ignorant. My answers for Pudding's behavior were not based on my "fanboy" tendencies, they were based on the chapter I read, and I hope you are doing the same, but oftentimes it seems like you read the chapter until you find something you don't like, then press your Caps Lock key before going to apforums. One would only call it "out of nowhere" if they missed the very prominent flashback accompanying it, and Big Mom's objectification of Pudding for her abilities since the beginning, and the fact that Pudding very clearly reacted in shock and confusion when Sanji was not affected by her third eye.

    Now, I'm gonna throw you a bone here: I don't think this was very good writing, at least in its current state. I haven't felt inclined to decry it because this isn't the end of the arc and Pudding's character arc has the legitimate possibility of closing in a satisfying fashion. Basing my entire opinions on an incomplete development from a single chapter is extremely flawed. The only reason I'm defending it this much is because you seem to be completely ignorant of Pudding's reasons for acting like this. As soon as you saw it and didn't really like it, you immediately put a blanket of bad writing on it and didn't look at it at all? Something can make sense in the story and yet still not be written well, and this is one example. The two are not mutually exclusive.

    Sanji doesn't need a speech to appeal to her. Robin didn't need to explain the thought process that made her want to fight for her freedom instead of giving in, and it's the same deal here. More is not always better, and sometimes simple gestures are all that is needed to get a thought-provoking reaction. Naruto's given tons of speeches to villains to reason them back to the light, but most if not all of them were trash. Luffy didn't say a word as he put his Straw Hat on Nami's head and went into Arlong Park to punch shit up.

    Also, I do need to point out that Pudding is not redeemed. She's acting out of turn, and on impulse. She has yet to make any sort of long-term decision, and so your derision of this "instant conversion" is baseless.


    First off, Big Mom is not doing anything, she's standing there shocked and confused just like everyone else. Yes, Big Mom wants the Vinsmokes killed. No, "wasting" them out of the blue is not the intention. It's a carefully laid out and meticulous plan - Sanji is going to be shot first, and then BM's crew will gun down the Vinsmokes. Not only would taking out the family while Sanji is alive create an wild card in Sanji, but it would also cause chaos within the ceremony since everyone will be aware of what's going on yet the job is not finished. By systematically taking out Sanji first, then his family, the BM Pirates will be able to execute this operation efficiently, giving them the chance to explain their actions to the guests while they're still confused and before panic kicks in. Plus, you saw what happened when Katakuri took rash action against Sanji. What you're suggesting simply wouldn't work - it would be like if Luffy and Bege decided to get things done and over with and just had Luffy pop out whenever. There's a time window they need to give themselves an advantage. "Grit" is an admirable trait, but without brains no plan of this nature is going to succeed.
    Big Mon does somethig, she signals the priest to shoot.No comment on the rest of the post
    Because I did not read it.

  18. #558
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    spoilers tomorrow right??








  19. #559
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfDarkness View Post
    ....Ummm ok.... i guess.

    Remember the time when people on the internet weren't full of self-entitled babies that started crying every time a writer didn't pander to popular social views? And instead went with their own story, and what they wanted to tell?

    I mean i got problems with Oda's female characters, and they have gone down over the years, but please don't bring some self-righteous social bullshit in here just because you refuse to accept any perspective that doesn't wank your personal beliefs.
    You are crossing the line with this post. It is possible to disagree without being aggressive and hostile, HeartofDarkness.

    On topic, though, I think everyone agrees that Oda characterizes women pretty shittily, that's just plain fact, now. If a person chooses to drop the series in protest, that's up to them.

    If others can stomach the awfulness and carry on, that's also up to them.

    I'm currently trudging through notoriously bad characterizations of women in Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series, but the occasional exasperated sigh and eye roll is enough for me to keep going.
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  20. #560

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Monquito View Post
    spoilers tomorrow right??
    That depends how long is tomorrow right now.

    Spoiler:

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