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Thread: One Piece 865: "Hey, Mother"

  1. #361
    As eleGant as ever! Lao G's Avatar
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    Default Re: One Piece 865: "Hey, Mother"

    Quote Originally Posted by ARTEMlS View Post
    Well whatever, screw Doflamingo and Dressrosa, but shouldn't at least Yonko crews be better oiled machines? I agree with your view on Kaido, however, I hope we really get proved wrong and the Beast Pirates really turn out as an actual better oiled machine.

    However, these Yonko crews are supposed to have been around loooooong, right? Seriously, how could they have survived that long if they are build upon such a toxic fundation? Yes, I know... The answer is because no one really challenge them that much as the Strawhats do and because they REEEEEEALLY are strong. During the whole course of the series smaller crews with good teamwork always were presented preferably towards bigger crews relying on sheer number. So would it be really too much to get a Yonko antagonist who actually is more than that at this point of the story?
    Well the only Yonko crews that seem to have the "quality over quantity" principle are BB's and Shanks' crews (Shanks is pretty debatable since we don't know much about his crew), even Whitebeard's crew was basically WB, Marco, Jozu and Vista (Ace too but we haven't really seen him do a lot as an actual part of the crew, he spent most of his time away hunting BB after all), the rest were simply there to make up the numbers. As for Kaido, with how much emphasis is given on him having 500 Zoan users in his crew it's very likely that he also prefers quantity over quality, he even implies this when talking about how he wanted a DF only crew. BM seems to be the same, her forces are pretty numerous when you think about it, 85 children and we can assume that at least 50-60 of those are of fighting age, and that's also taking into account older non-combatant children like Chiffon, Praliné, Moscato, and, to some degree, Pudding. She also has her regular crew with people like Tamago and Bobbins. That's a lot of non-fodder (narratively speaking) executives, too many if you ask me. Numbers are good if it was literally a full blown conflict between the SHs and the BM pirates, we've seen how effective the Enraged army is , which, apparently, is just a fraction of her forces, when it comes to an outright battle. However, it just doesn't work that well in a tight and chaotic space like the Wedding Venue. Numbers can backfire in situations like these, because numbers require coordination and orders, and right now the highest authority on the venue is going fucking haywire and has pretty much lost all sense of space and time. Katakuri knows what's up cause he can see the future, but his orders were basically ignored cause Shonen Manga.
    Mind you I agree that the BM pirates could have been portrayed much better and I can definitely understand the complaints about some of them, especially Perospero and Smoothie. But I personally haven't given up on them and imma wait until the arc is over before I bash any of them. So like I said, quantity over quality seems to be theme for BM and Kaido. Can't say i'm surprised tbh.

  2. #362

    Default Re: One Piece 865: "Hey, Mother"

    Quote Originally Posted by ARTEMlS View Post
    Well whatever, screw Doflamingo and Dressrosa, but shouldn't at least Yonko crews be better oiled machines? I agree with your view on Kaido, however, I hope we really get proved wrong and the Beast Pirates really turn out as an actual better oiled machine.

    However, these Yonko crews are supposed to have been around loooooong, right? Seriously, how could they have survived that long if they are build upon such a toxic fundation? Yes, I know... The answer is because no one really challenge them that much as the Strawhats do and because they REEEEEEALLY are strong. During the whole course of the series smaller crews with good teamwork always were presented preferably towards bigger crews relying on sheer number. So would it be really too much to get a Yonko antagonist who actually is more than that at this point of the story?
    We have BB who is bizarre-o Luffy with a shadow version of Luffy's crew.
    And we have Shanks and his way more experienced crew with similar vibe to what you are describing is "missing".
    Then we have a vastly different challenge with Kaido whereas you have a seemingly invincible boss with a huge and powerful army. Then you have the Marines which is another challenge entirely, then the crushing force of the World Government lurking.

    There are many forms of challenges set up in front of the SH's not even including the rivals of the worst generation. Not sure exactly what your complaint is? That Big Mom is a mess? Well that's just how she's set up, personal grudge, force, and chaos... a dysfunctional family of sorts. Head on in battle one on one with her crew versus another crew or a planned attack of her doing is probably much more organized and terrifying but we are seeing a series of dominoes fall into place when her guard is down because Big Mom got too big for her big soggy britches.

  3. #363
    Kick-Ass Finalis desa's Avatar
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    Default Re: One Piece 865: "Hey, Mother"

    Quote Originally Posted by ARTEMlS View Post
    My problem with the displayed competence of the recent enemy teams like Doflamingo and Big Mom Pirates is their dysfunctionality as a team. To quote Zoro from Punk Hazard: This is the goddamn New World!!! This is the final sea where only the best of the best are supposed to have any chance at all. But aside from being stronger I don't feel any difference at all. Sure, Doflamingo and Big Mom are incredibly strong, but that's just is it.

    Is it really too much to expect at least one of the endgame villains to
    #1 have a non-dysfunctional crew that can work together and actually rival the Strawhats' teamwork?
    #2 be an actual competent leader?

    Both Doflamingo and Big Mom are average leaders at best, and their crews are average at best, too. (Again, not talikng about strength here.) I don't want to see the Strawhats dealing with these kinds of enemies any more. We had the East Blue and the Paradise for these villains. Now I want to see the creme de la creme. I want the Strawhats to have to bring their A+ game in order to deal with Big Mom's A game. Instead we get the Strawhats bringing their B game in order to best the enemies' C game.

    Aside from Big Mom and some others like Katakuri being super powerful I don't really feel any threat coming from them.


    Like, what do we have? Everyone fears Big Mom big time preventing the overall team from actually being not completely inefficient as a whole. Incredibly lazy writing.
    Dofla did not have a dysfunctional crew. They actually worked pretty well. As far as leader goes he seems to create great devotion and the top executives were his family. HIs problem was arrogance and hubris.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by ARTEMlS View Post
    Well whatever, screw Doflamingo and Dressrosa, but shouldn't at least Yonko crews be better oiled machines?
    You would think so but say we just facing the female one wait for someone like Kaido before making a judgement.

    Don't mess with the Law if you don't have an Ace up your sleeve.

  4. #364

    Default Re: One Piece 865: "Hey, Mother"

    Someone needs to record a parody of Avicii's "Hey Brother" called "Hey Mother". Seems like it would be appropriate.
    I called it wrong, so long ago. I guess this needs to be changed.

  5. #365

    Default Re: One Piece 865: "Hey, Mother"

    Just called katakuri to know what's happening in the future next chapters, but he already knew I was going to call and shut his mobile off right before
    "I'm simply an accident. Why take it all so seriously?"

  6. #366
    Aokiji for NN!! SHpirates's Avatar
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    Default Re: One Piece 865: "Hey, Mother"

    Quote Originally Posted by Lao G View Post
    Well the only Yonko crews that seem to have the "quality over quantity" principle are BB's and Shanks' crews (Shanks is pretty debatable since we don't know much about his crew), even Whitebeard's crew was basically WB, Marco, Jozu and Vista (Ace too but we haven't really seen him do a lot as an actual part of the crew, he spent most of his time away hunting BB after all), the rest were simply there to make up the numbers. As for Kaido, with how much emphasis is given on him having 500 Zoan users in his crew it's very likely that he also prefers quantity over quality, he even implies this when talking about how he wanted a DF only crew. BM seems to be the same, her forces are pretty numerous when you think about it, 85 children and we can assume that at least 50-60 of those are of fighting age, and that's also taking into account older non-combatant children like Chiffon, Praliné, Moscato, and, to some degree, Pudding. She also has her regular crew with people like Tamago and Bobbins. That's a lot of non-fodder (narratively speaking) executives, too many if you ask me. Numbers are good if it was literally a full blown conflict between the SHs and the BM pirates, we've seen how effective the Enraged army is , which, apparently, is just a fraction of her forces, when it comes to an outright battle. However, it just doesn't work that well in a tight and chaotic space like the Wedding Venue. Numbers can backfire in situations like these, because numbers require coordination and orders, and right now the highest authority on the venue is going fucking haywire and has pretty much lost all sense of space and time. Katakuri knows what's up cause he can see the future, but his orders were basically ignored cause Shonen Manga.
    Mind you I agree that the BM pirates could have been portrayed much better and I can definitely understand the complaints about some of them, especially Perospero and Smoothie. But I personally haven't given up on them and imma wait until the arc is over before I bash any of them. So like I said, quantity over quality seems to be theme for BM and Kaido. Can't say i'm surprised tbh.
    Well as far as we know BB has 10 ships each having a comander or something like that, it is also a lot of people unless they are still the same number just with more ships.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Seafarer33 View Post
    That he might. Nevertheless, I would find it a stretch if it turned out 'Caramel' Bonney has been around for over 60 years, with all the effort Oda made to introduce her as one of the Worst Gen rookies. Her fruit may allow her to hide her actual age, but it doesn't explain why no-one would have heard of her before.
    well she changed apearance and Akainu seemed to know her well ..

  7. #367
    21st Century Schizoid Man S.C. Amigo's Avatar
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    Default Re: One Piece 865: "Hey, Mother"

    A part of me wonders if there's literally only one person on each of Blackbeard's ships, being the captains themselves.

  8. #368
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: One Piece 865: "Hey, Mother"

    Quote Originally Posted by S.C. Amigo View Post
    A part of me wonders if there's literally only one person on each of Blackbeard's ships, being the captains themselves.
    Looking at how Whitebeard's crew divisions are set up, which the Blackbeard Pirates' crew is modeled after, I think they will each have their own share of minions.

    "The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke."

  9. #369
    Don't know what to say... Monquito's Avatar
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    Default Re: One Piece 865: "Hey, Mother"

    yeh, Robin said they had reinforcements during the Grudge War, so they do have more people, we just haven't see them yet.








  10. #370
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Default Re: One Piece 865: "Hey, Mother"

    Quote Originally Posted by S.C. Amigo View Post
    A part of me wonders if there's literally only one person on each of Blackbeard's ships, being the captains themselves.
    Ignore that part of yourself then.

    BB wouldn't be able to hold any kind of "territory" with a 10 people, no matter how strong they were. Plus he promoted each of his original crew to captains. Doesn't make sense for them to be captains to themselves only.
    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
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  11. #371

    Default Re: One Piece 865: "Hey, Mother"

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    BB wouldn't be able to hold any kind of "territory" with a 10 people, no matter how strong they were. Plus he promoted each of his original crew to captains. Doesn't make sense for them to be captains to themselves only.
    But it is not implyed that Yonko are only that when they own some territory. You're in the group when you beat other one forces, apparently.

    Nothing exists; even if something exists, nothing can be known about it
    Even if something can be known about it, knowledge about it can't be communicated to others
    Even if it can be communicated, it cannot be understood.





  12. #372

    Default Re: One Piece 865: "Hey, Mother"

    Quote Originally Posted by Shobu Yoruichi View Post
    But it is not implyed that Yonko are only that when they own some territory. You're in the group when you beat other one forces, apparently.
    It was stated that Blackbeard conquered all of Whitebeard's territory, except Fishman Island. You can't hold control over that territory with just 10 people.


    Spoiler:

  13. #373

    Default Re: One Piece 865: "Hey, Mother"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaido King of the Beasts View Post
    It was stated that Blackbeard conquered all of Whitebeard's territory, except Fishman Island. You can't hold control over that territory with just 10 people.
    Again, it is not implyed that you're Yonko by having territory... but with the world accepting you as deserving that title.

    Nothing exists; even if something exists, nothing can be known about it
    Even if something can be known about it, knowledge about it can't be communicated to others
    Even if it can be communicated, it cannot be understood.





  14. #374

    Default Re: One Piece 865: "Hey, Mother"

    Quote Originally Posted by Shobu Yoruichi View Post
    Again, it is not implyed that you're Yonko by having territory... but with the world accepting you as deserving that title.
    I never said that - regardless of the fact that BB's a Yonko, it's confirmed he does have territory in the New World. Territory too expansive for 10 people to lord over.


    Spoiler:

  15. #375

    Default Re: One Piece 865: "Hey, Mother"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaido King of the Beasts View Post
    I never said that - regardless of the fact that BB's a Yonko, it's confirmed he does have territory in the New World. Territory too expansive for 10 people to lord over.
    Funny, i didn't meddle about an impossibility for Yonko to have territories

    Nothing exists; even if something exists, nothing can be known about it
    Even if something can be known about it, knowledge about it can't be communicated to others
    Even if it can be communicated, it cannot be understood.





  16. #376

    Default Re: One Piece 865: "Hey, Mother"

    Theoretically I could imagine holding that territory with only 10 people, you 'just' have to be that strong and fearsome that really no one wants to even slightly piss you off.

    However, practically not so much. Especially considering that one key aspect of OP's battle system consists of conquering stuff - including people!
    Forum user Bartholemew Bear passed away in a very moving and touching way. I, ARTEMlS, therefore carry on the Will of DArth for good unto its final fulfilment.

  17. #377
    Don't know what to say... Monquito's Avatar
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    Default Re: One Piece 865: "Hey, Mother"

    Quote Originally Posted by ARTEMlS View Post
    Theoretically I could imagine holding that territory with only 10 people, you 'just' have to be that strong and fearsome that really no one wants to even slightly piss you off.

    However, practically not so much. Especially considering that one key aspect of OP's battle system consists of conquering stuff - including people!
    there are literally 9 amazingly strong captains constantly challenging the Yonko atm, so much to a point where they sink several of their ships(Kidd), beat up various commanders(Luffy, Uouge) and pretend to join them to bring them down(Capone and likely Drake), so yeah NO, you need lots of people, as Sai? said, no matter how strong you are, you always going to lose to numbers.








  18. #378

    Default Re: One Piece 865: "Hey, Mother"

    I don't think it's only a matter of strenght. But also of the impossibility of being physically present at the same time in 2 locations lol. Regardless of how strong they are, 10 people can't just reign over a sea territory that probably extends over thousands of square miles.
    This new era those guys talk about is total bullshit. An era when pirate dreams are ending?!!! Huh? Well?! ZEHAHAHAHAHA.....
    PEOPLE'S DREAMS..... NEVER END!!!!
    Ain't that right?!!!

  19. #379
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Default Re: One Piece 865: "Hey, Mother"

    They are called emperors because they rule over something. Which means they have manpower, territory and various resources at their disposal.

    Let's say Blackbeard, after putting on a show, just kept adventuring with his crew, low profile. Nobody would call him an emperor. Maybe someone else would use the opportunity or the remaining 3 would expand their own territory.

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    It makes no sense and you'll be dead before you're finished.

  20. #380
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: One Piece 865: "Hey, Mother"

    If Luffy is going to have his own fleet of minions/allies then anti-Luffy is sure to have one.

    "The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke."

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