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Thread: One Piece Chapter 881: Room of Waves

  1. #241

    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 881: Room of Waves

    Quote Originally Posted by fuzi11 View Post
    In general. Shouldn't Cracker be awake by now? It's been one day since he has been defeated
    They did mention that he had extremely low pain tolerance, and that a single hit would do him in. Luffy sent him through multiple trees against a wall. And that's after half a day of fighting. So I'd say he's gonna be out probably for the rest of the arc.
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  2. #242

    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 881: Room of Waves

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    I don't expect Sanji's supposed talents on Observation Haki to ever pay off. It's going to be about 300 chapters now and all he has done is sense Surume and/or Caribou's presence (alongside Luffy and Zoro) and dodge a jellybean from foresight man (whose foresight has never worked after sniping Jigra the organ dealer). Usopp has a better Observation feat than he will probably ever gave.

    Zoro's specialty is Armament Haki, but I have my doubts that his Armament Haki is stronger than Luffy's.
    He seems to dodge attacks and bullets more often then the others, and since someone that trained his coo very hard can see a bit into the future, maybe sanji will be the next katakuri.

    But yes, usoop had the most impressive coo thing so far, even above luffy.

  3. #243
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 881: Room of Waves

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    Unless Katakuri is also fast and reactive. I don't think Gear Second is exactly that overwhelming for pirates this late in the game.
    He sure is, but he might have also been using a feint.

    This is why I dislike the Observation as a concept. As it is now, allowing actual foresight instead of just feeling how your enemy will move. It's like time travel paradox.
    Katakuri sees Luffy dodging > but it was his kick that made him dodge > he kicks him with the other leg because Luffy dodged the original kick that might have been a feint.

    Does that mean Katakuri has no control over what he's doing? If he's predicting what his enemy is doing and acting accordingly, it's like he has no real control over what he's doing. In a way, you might argue that, instead of controlling the flow of battle, he's just reacting to what he sees. Just going in circles.

    How does his mind even work? Because the future he sees might change at any moment because his opponent might change his mind at any moment.

    Seeing how he's forced to react based on his premonitions, that could also be exploitable. If this was HxH I'd definitely expect something like that happening, but since it's OP, I'm not really sure Oda would go that way. First of all, his battles are less cerebral and second, Luffy is maybe too straightforward to consider something like that.
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  4. #244

    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 881: Room of Waves

    I don't think Katakuri's ability should be seen as actually seeing the future.

    I mean, in a sense CoO has always been about "seeing the future" in the sense that it works in a fight by reading the enemy's energy (or whatever you call it) and predicting how they will move next, thus avoiding their attack. Technically everyone who uses it in a fight to dodge an attack is "seeing into the future" in the same way as Katakuri is.

    What makes Katakuri special (at least that's my take on it) is that he has such an acute ability to read the others that by reading the flow of their energy he can predict not just how hey move immediately after that, but many seconds ahead, each of their actions, how they will react to the action of others, etc. It is a combination of a very powerful CoO and a very sharp mind with the ability to properly judge a person's behavior and their course of action. His impersonation of Joseph in the last chapter is good as an example of this, because that's exactly of Joseph does (Joseph doesn't see the future, he can predict what someone will say because he is just that smart and that amazing at reading others).
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  5. #245
    Karaage-san, Aishiteru! AfroSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 881: Room of Waves

    My way of seeing it is to assume that Katakuri's CoO is as finetuned at the future vision aspect as Enel's CoO was with the extension of his Mantra across massively large areas.

    In other words, Katakuri is amazing at one specific aspect of CoO, but is relatively normal when comparing the other aspects of CoO to Enel's abilities.
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  6. #246

    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 881: Room of Waves

    Personally, I'd still hold off on what Zoro's capabilities are post timeskip. Saying he'd struggle against biscuit soldiers when we haven't really seen what he has in his locker...? Not trying overestimate him but he did train with the strongest swordsman, has to count for something. Zoro vs Cracker who would win? (If this were a death match)



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  7. #247
    Discovered Stowaway BroBro's Avatar
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    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 881: Room of Waves

    Quote Originally Posted by fuzi11 View Post
    In general. Shouldn't Cracker be awake by now? It's been one day since he has been defeated
    He was sensitive to pain and he was heavily injured. he's still probably incapacitated.
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  8. #248

    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 881: Room of Waves

    Quote Originally Posted by BroBro View Post
    He was sensitive to pain and he was heavily injured. he's still probably incapacitated.
    I hate that because of just the way oda writes, we don't expect someone to really be incapacitated when they are defeated. thats so stupid, really the one thing i hate about one piece.
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  9. #249

    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 881: Room of Waves

    WHen you folks talk about him seeing the future as just being haki, keep in mind that he heard the words Luffy was going to say. So it’s possible he has powers like Sharly on Fishman Island.

    Or he could’ve just seen a few moments ahead through haki and read Luffy’s Lips? But even then, that knocks out the theory that haki is more of a sense and feeling, but is rather seeing in detail what happens.

  10. #250
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 881: Room of Waves

    Not really sure how him hearing words has benefited the plot, really. It wasn't something that allowed the story in progress in certain way. He didn't hear any future treacherous words from anyone. That guy he shot at the entrance of the party was no more than a hype tool, and could have served as a hype even without the ability of hearing future words existing.

    Maybe it will still play a part, though.
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  11. #251

    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 881: Room of Waves

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    Not really sure how him hearing words has benefited the plot, really. It wasn't something that allowed the story in progress in certain way. He didn't hear any future treacherous words from anyone. That guy he shot at the entrance of the party was no more than a hype tool, and could have served as a hype even without the ability of hearing future words existing.

    Maybe it will still play a part, though.
    Telling what your opponent thinks/wants to say is just a standard battle shounen "badass" cliché, I wouldn't look too much into it.
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  12. #252
    Wano? Wa-yes! Kaido King of the Beasts's Avatar
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    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 881: Room of Waves

    Quote Originally Posted by fuzi11 View Post
    In general. Shouldn't Cracker be awake by now? It's been one day since he has been defeated
    Considering that Snack set an MIA precedent...things may not be looking too good for Biscuit Boy.

    Spoiler:

  13. #253
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 881: Room of Waves

    Quote Originally Posted by Koliber View Post
    Telling what your opponent thinks/wants to say is just a standard battle shounen "badass" cliché, I wouldn't look too much into it.
    Not really expecting anything, just wondering why Oda needed a complication like that in the first place.
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    Trying to understand Bleach is like trying to drink a bottle of bleach.

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  14. #254

    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 881: Room of Waves

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    Not really expecting anything, just wondering why Oda needed a complication like that in the first place.
    One Piece was never really known for internal consistency of powers, Oda is more than ready to sacrifice it to make something look funny/badass. Though Katauri's CoO seems to be different from anyone else's, considering they were usually able to see someone's intent (which is why Luffy could hit/evade Enel via sheer randomness of his actions), but neither Pudding nor Sanji expected to get as flustered as they did during the wedding which effects Kaktakuri clearly saw. But then again, I'm not expecting any logic or consistency from Oda regarding this matter.
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  15. #255

    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 881: Room of Waves

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaido King of the Beasts View Post
    Considering that Snack set an MIA precedent...things may not be looking too good for Biscuit Boy.
    Not to mention he was likely being tended to in the castle infirmary. The collapse and being buried - at least for a while - under tons of whipped cream probably didn't do much to improve his health.

    One way or the other, I'm not expecting much action from him until the end of the arc.

  16. #256

    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 881: Room of Waves

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    He sure is, but he might have also been using a feint.

    This is why I dislike the Observation as a concept. As it is now, allowing actual foresight instead of just feeling how your enemy will move. It's like time travel paradox.
    Katakuri sees Luffy dodging > but it was his kick that made him dodge > he kicks him with the other leg because Luffy dodged the original kick that might have been a feint.

    Does that mean Katakuri has no control over what he's doing? If he's predicting what his enemy is doing and acting accordingly, it's like he has no real control over what he's doing. In a way, you might argue that, instead of controlling the flow of battle, he's just reacting to what he sees. Just going in circles.

    How does his mind even work? Because the future he sees might change at any moment because his opponent might change his mind at any moment.

    Seeing how he's forced to react based on his premonitions, that could also be exploitable. If this was HxH I'd definitely expect something like that happening, but since it's OP, I'm not really sure Oda would go that way. First of all, his battles are less cerebral and second, Luffy is maybe too straightforward to consider something like that.
    Hasn't all observation haki always worked like this? From when Eneru & the Gorgon sisters appeared they've all been able to read an opponents moves like they're looking into the future. To me it just seemed that they could read the *most likely outcome* of the next few seconds based on what the have Observed their opponent doing. Even Ussop used it to extrapolate where the target he wanted to shoot would likely be, not where it currently was. Katakuri just happens to have this trait ramped up to eleven, which could also be a weakness if he's seeing too far ahead, Luffy already has certain defences to at least stymie it.

  17. #257

    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 881: Room of Waves

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    Unless Katakuri is also fast and reactive. I don't think Gear Second is exactly that overwhelming for pirates this late in the game.
    What about how he imits Luffy’s attack in advance ?

  18. #258
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 881: Room of Waves

    Quote Originally Posted by Kdom View Post
    What about how he imits Luffy’s attack in advance ?
    Imitates Luffy's attack in advance? He does it after Luffy does.

    Spoiler:






    Maybe he foresaw Luffy going for Elephant Gun with the "next is power, huh?" quote. But he still activates his move right after Luffy. Whether he has foresight or not, would the battle have ended up even slightly differently? I doubt it.

    Whether Katakuri is using foresight in his attacks or not, there's no notable way it's being shown to me other than going Joseph Joestar at the end of the last chapter. So like I keep saying, I think it's a pointless and unnecessary ability. Unless it is somehow the key to how Luffy overwhelms Katakuri, but then it feels like a random tacked on weakness instead. It should have never existed. I don't think we would bat an eye at Katakuri, a Sweet Commander, being able to move faster than Luffy without foresight.

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  19. #259

    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 881: Room of Waves

    I wonder if the 10 hours needed to get from present sunny location to cacao island is because luffy's battle with katakuri will last 10 hours. Since his last battle with a sweet commander(cracker) lasted 11 hours. And if it was said katakuri is strongest among SCs, it would have looked wierd if luffy would beat him in 1 hour or something.

    Still ,if katakuri is food and luffy likes to eat, I Wonder if eating will be involved in this battle too.

  20. #260
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 881: Room of Waves

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangaroa View Post
    Hasn't all observation haki always worked like this? From when Eneru & the Gorgon sisters appeared they've all been able to read an opponents moves like they're looking into the future. To me it just seemed that they could read the *most likely outcome* of the next few seconds based on what the have Observed their opponent doing. Even Ussop used it to extrapolate where the target he wanted to shoot would likely be, not where it currently was. Katakuri just happens to have this trait ramped up to eleven, which could also be a weakness if he's seeing too far ahead, Luffy already has certain defences to at least stymie it.
    This is what happens when an ability isn't properly explained. We have a concept that allows users to sense presences and to predict an incoming attack. Because an enemy might unintentionally give away his attack with his body language and hostile intent.

    So you have a concept that's easy to accept and it doesn't complicate things too much. But then you add a dude who has trained the ability so hard that he can now accurately see not just an attack that's going to come in a second or two but like more than double that time and not just movements but actual words someone is going to speak. Or what someone intends to do or will do next, like when Luffy caught him before dragging him into mirror world.

    My problem is that the ability is literally explained as seeing into future, instead of mind reading which would have been a lot more believable to me. Considering how Observation is supposed to work. He doesn't just feel the presence of others with his mind's eye, but can read into their intent, thus not actually predicting what they will do but being told by his enemies themselves.

    But that would cause some different problems, like for example Bege's betrayal and the whole plot with SH not being believable (since he planned it for a while), Pudding's machinations (if they are revealed) not being believable, SH's escape cover up by Opera not being believable etc.

    So I'm hoping Katakuri's future sight wasn't created just to make the plot believable but also to be one of the causes of his loss against Luffy. I wonder if Conqueror's Haki will play a big role here, rather than Luffy thinking of such mind tricks. Like, lesser people can't possibly predict what a Conqueror intends to do or some other cliche stuff like that. Or even more simple, Conqueror burst creates a negation field for Katakuri.
    Last edited by Razh; October 14th, 2017 at 11:54 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Trying to understand Bleach is like trying to drink a bottle of bleach.

    It makes no sense and you'll be dead before you're finished.

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