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Thread: European Politics Thread

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Now your own land? There's more of that sort of groundwork, but while French-Canadians have that sort of identity, Anglo-Canada sure as shit doesn't on the other end (Anglo-Canada really doesn't know who it is aside from "not America").
    That's certainly true lolol.

    I can't see Anglo-Canadians feeling like a Quebec bomber killing a bunch of Nova Scotians is a personal attack on "their people".
    Hmm maybe not the "their people part", but Quebec separatists do have the general reputation of being people who don't want to remain "Canadian", so they do fit into an "us vs. them" scenario if the situation were to escalate. It would probably be perceived as an attack on "Canadians" as a whole, rather than anglo-Canadians only.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Femme View Post
    Hmm maybe not the "their people part", but Quebec separatists do have the general reputation of being people who don't want to remain "Canadian", so they do fit into an "us vs. them" scenario if the situation were to escalate. It would probably be perceived as an attack on "Canadians" as a whole, rather than anglo-Canadians only.
    Yeah I do feel that spirits get kind of heated in some anglophone medias whenever the Parti Québecois gets elected or talks about independence...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparsebeard View Post
    Yeah I do feel that spirits get kind of heated in some anglophone medias whenever the Parti Québecois gets elected or talks about independence...
    Yeah, it does. Even though I live in anglophone canada and speak french, I guess non-Quebec provinces are just like.. confused about why Quebec would want to go so far as to leave the country. Honestly I'm guilty of not learning about the reasons for wanting independence and why it's necessary, so it just feels super kooky and weird whenever it's brought up, which I think is a shared... anglophone opinion.... *shrugs*.

    I wouldn't want it. Personally, I enjoy our french history and I feel great every time I visit Quebec and get to crank out some rusty french vocab, it's part of my Canadian identity.
    Last edited by Femme; October 12th, 2017 at 08:04 PM. Reason: *Chuckles at having a Canadian discussion in the Euro-Politics thread*
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    Quote Originally Posted by Femme View Post
    Yeah, it does. Even though I live in anglophone canada and speak french, I guess non-Quebec provinces are just like.. confused about why Quebec would want to go so far as to leave the country. Honestly I'm guilty of not learning about the reasons for wanting independence and why it's necessary, so it just feels super kooky and weird whenever it's brought up, which I think is a shared... anglophone opinion.... *shrugs*.

    I wouldn't want it. Personally, I enjoy our french history and I feel great every time I visit Quebec and get to crank out some rusty french vocab, it's part of my Canadian identity.
    Depends on the people...

    For some it's more about politics like not wanting anything to do with the prairies politicians (conservatives) or the liberal party.

    For others it's about "culture", multi-culturalism may be seen as a threat when your culture is treated on the same level as that of new arrivants.

    Resentement over past offences (there where many since French-Canada WAS litteraly conquered) let's not forget that most of present day Canada was once french speaking and now outside of Quebec there are only small communities remaining (which are not always treated with incredible respect).

    But mostly, I think it's about language, while things have majorly improved, lets not forget that for a long time there was an official doctrine of assimilation... Also, it may be hard to imagine for english speakers how "besieged" franco-american may feel, after all, we are only a small province in amongst a huge population of english-speakers in america. Some feel that the only way to protect the language and "culture" is being an independent country.

    All in all, it's not about hate of the rest of canada, but mostly about the fear to lose ourselves...

    That's why the best thing people from other provinces can do is not to be provocative and use their position of strenght to pressure Québec, however infuriating we may seem, lol. Most of us don't mind staying in Canada and I'd argue that a large part of the separatism is reactionnary in nature...

    I mean thing like all the provinces except Quebec meeting in secret to pass the constitution (which Quebec hasn't signed yet 35 years later), the commandites scandal, or the clarity act (where a referendum would need 60% vote to be valid acording to the cnd gouv) don't help the public opinion...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparsebeard View Post
    Depends on the people...

    For some it's more about politics like not wanting anything to do with the prairies politicians (conservatives) or the liberal party.
    I guess I can understand this. Sometimes I don't want anything to do with them either :/

    For others it's about "culture", multi-culturalism may be seen as a threat when your culture is treated on the same level as that of new arrivants.
    But I can't get behind this. Especially when this sentiment fuels groups like La Meute.

    Resentement over past offences (there where many since French-Canada WAS litteraly conquered) let's not forget that most of present day Canada was once french speaking and now outside of Quebec there are only small communities remaining (which are not always treated with incredible respect).

    But mostly, I think it's about language, while things have majorly improved, lets not forget that for a long time there was an official doctrine of assimilation... Also, it may be hard to imagine for english speakers how "besieged" franco-american may feel, after all, we are only a small province in amongst a huge population of english-speakers in america. Some feel that the only way to protect the language and "culture" is being an independent country.

    All in all, it's not about hate of the rest of canada, but mostly about the fear to lose ourselves...

    That's why the best thing people from other provinces can do is not to be provocative and use their position of strenght to pressure Québec, however infuriating we may seem, lol. Most of us don't mind staying in Canada and I'd argue that a large part of the separatism is reactionnary in nature...

    I mean thing like all the provinces except Quebec meeting in secret to pass the constitution (which Quebec hasn't signed yet 35 years later), the commandites scandal, or the clarity act (where a referendum would need 60% vote to be valid acording to the cnd gouv) don't help the public opinion...
    French isn't going anywhere, honestly. Having been born and raised in Ontario, i'll tell you that those who learned french/attended french immersion throughout school are highly regarded. Anglophone Canadian society looks at French speakers incredibly well where I'm from, and it's looked at as having earned a superior education and may have better job prospects after school.

    I speak from the perspective of working in a school and having interacted with many parents who want their kids to learn French. Heck just today I was talking to a co-worker who told me she regrets not choosing to switch over to French immersion when she was in elementary school.

    Politics aside, Canada (at least in Ontario) has a great system in place to encourage people to develop that dual-french Canadian identity. Quebecois culture being lost? Well, culture is an ever-evolving thing. Most of the time it has positive effects on society (like all those excellent Algerian and Moroccan restaurants in Montreal. Yum).

    Edit:
    Now that I think about it, I am the perfect example to demonstrate why French culture isn't going anywhere in Canada and why multiculturalism isn't a threat to it lol.

    I'm a canadian-born daughter of Trinidadian (see: brown) immigrants (not to mention muslim) who decided to put me in French Immersion in kindergarten, and has grown up to love the French language and become an advocate for the benefits of learning French here bahaha. A lot of my friends have their kids in private school or in home schools, but I had such a great experience in French Immersion that when I have kids I want them to experience it, too.
    Last edited by Femme; October 12th, 2017 at 10:05 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Femme View Post
    But I can't get behind this. Especially when this sentiment fuels groups like La Meute.
    It also disgusts me, but the existence of "La Meute" shows that such opinions do exist amongst independentists... I do think it's a minority though, after all the history of the independentist movement is mostly about self-affirmation and progressism.

    At most, I can understand the most fervent of nationalist being afraid that immigrants don't buy into the independence movement. It's pretty normal after all not to want to stir secessionism when you are new to a country after all... I don't think it's right to oppose immigration for such a reason but I do understand that to hardcore independentist, they may not be happy to see their dream of an independent country seem to slip away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Femme View Post
    French isn't going anywhere, honestly. Having been born and raised in Ontario, i'll tell you that those who learned french/attended french immersion throughout school are highly regarded. Anglophone Canadian society looks at French speakers incredibly well where I'm from, and it's looked at as having earned a superior education and may have better job prospects after school.

    I speak from the perspective of working in a school and having interacted with many parents who want their kids to learn French. Heck just today I was talking to a co-worker who told me she regrets not choosing to switch over to French immersion when she was in elementary school.

    Politics aside, Canada (at least in Ontario) has a great system in place to encourage people to develop that dual-french Canadian identity. Quebecois culture being lost? Well, culture is an ever-evolving thing. Most of the time it has positive effects on society (like all those excellent Algerian and Moroccan restaurants in Montreal. Yum).

    Now that I think about it, I am the perfect example to demonstrate why French culture isn't going anywhere in Canada and why multiculturalism isn't a threat to it lol.

    I'm a canadian-born daughter of Trinidadian (see: brown) immigrants (not to mention muslim) who decided to put me in French Immersion in kindergarten, and has grown up to love the French language and become an advocate for the benefits of learning French here bahaha. A lot of my friends have their kids in private school or in home schools, but I had such a great experience in French Immersion that when I have kids I want them to experience it, too.
    People from Quebec (and pretty much all the rest of the world) also learn english, but I'm sure you can appreciate that the reason that outside Quebec, french is not really essential. Sure it may open doors, but you won't be in trouble if you don't know it. Also, billinguism is a relatively new thing that probably wouldn't have had much traction without the fear of separatism. Even in Quebec, the french language had to be fought for to be protected (law 101, obligation of attending french schools, law on the use of french in the work place,etc.). When the two referendums happened, such a thing couldn't be taken for granted.

    I believe that most of support for separatism is either for political reasons (percieved or real political differences), or a remenant of such a time when the status of french was far from certain (after all political attitudes take time to change).

    I do believe the rest of Canada is paranoid about independentism, most of us agree that things aren't that bad anymore (support for independence haven't gone over 40% for a loooong time and the youth ain't much interrested in it anymore). If Quebec ever votes for independence it'll be because Canada pushed us too far if anything.

    Personaly, I am ready to give a chance to live together (voted NDP and liberal to the last federal elections, Bloc Quebecois before that). I'll admit that things like the tar sands and conservatism are the things that may make me consider voting yes to a referendum though. And a free quebec would probably be good thing for the rest of Canada to be honest (getting rid of the Bloc Quebecois for exemple) and it's not like Canada NEEDS Quebec to succeed... Still, I do agree a a united Canada is probably for the best (as nationalism is truly an ugly thing) but sometimes I do wonder if Quebec couldn't have a better impact on the world by going our own way...

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparsebeard View Post
    It also disgusts me, but the existence of "La Meute" shows that such opinions do exist amongst independentists... I do think it's a minority though, after all the history of the independentist movement is mostly about self-affirmation and progressism.

    At most, I can understand the most fervent of nationalist being afraid that immigrants don't buy into the independence movement. It's pretty normal after all not to want to stir secessionism when you are new to a country after all... I don't think it's right to oppose immigration for such a reason but I do understand that to hardcore independentist, they may not be happy to see their dream of an independent country seem to slip away.
    The hardcore independents need to be kept in check, though. As we've seen with the shooting, far-righters are definitely a threat and the anti-immigration stance (sadly, inflated and emboldened by Trump) really has no place in Canada. Honestly though, I'm pretty scared that our next PM will be Trudeau's polar opposite due to rising resistance to immigration, from not only far-righters but regular conservatives, too. In the end, I may not agree with a lot of Trudeau's decisions, but holy fuck, at least he's admired and respected on a global scale. (apologies to 'muricans D: )

    People from Quebec (and pretty much all the rest of the world) also learn english, but I'm sure you can appreciate that the reason that outside Quebec, french is not really essential. Sure it may open doors, but you won't be in trouble if you don't know it. Also, billinguism is a relatively new thing that probably wouldn't have had much traction without the fear of separatism. Even in Quebec, the french language had to be fought for to be protected (law 101, obligation of attending french schools, law on the use of french in the work place,etc.). When the two referendums happened, such a thing couldn't be taken for granted.
    That's true. Unfortunately English has become the be-all-and-end-all language across the globe, and it'll be close to impossible to just start forcing the use of french on the rest of Canada where anglophones vastly outnumber francophones. I see Canada as similar to other countries that have more than one official language, but one of them is more commonly used than the other.

    I suppose that Canada supporting more years of French in schools instead of the meager few years that's required now might help, but in the end the dominant language tends to be the most commonly used one in the end. A lot of other countries suffer this struggle as well, like China where a lot of the dialects are slowly becoming lost in favour of the official Mandarin or Cantonese. The official use of french in the government sphere will always keep it alive, though. This past election's speeches being half french/half english all the time was pretty interesting lol.

    I believe that most of support for separatism is either for political reasons (percieved or real political differences), or a remenant of such a time when the status of french was far from certain (after all political attitudes take time to change).

    I do believe the rest of Canada is paranoid about independentism, most of us agree that things aren't that bad anymore (support for independence haven't gone over 40% for a loooong time and the youth ain't much interrested in it anymore). If Quebec ever votes for independence it'll be because Canada pushed us too far if anything.

    Personaly, I am ready to give a chance to live together (voted NDP and liberal to the last federal elections, Bloc Quebecois before that). I'll admit that things like the tar sands and conservatism are the things that may make me consider voting yes to a referendum though. And a free quebec would probably be good thing for the rest of Canada to be honest (getting rid of the Bloc Quebecois for exemple) and it's not like Canada NEEDS Quebec to succeed... Still, I do agree a a united Canada is probably for the best (as nationalism is truly an ugly thing) but sometimes I do wonder if Quebec couldn't have a better impact on the world by going our own way...
    Better impact on the world? Can you elaborate?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Femme View Post
    The hardcore independents need to be kept in check, though. As we've seen with the shooting, far-righters are definitely a threat and the anti-immigration stance (sadly, inflated and emboldened by Trump) really has no place in Canada. Honestly though, I'm pretty scared that our next PM will be Trudeau's polar opposite due to rising resistance to immigration, from not only far-righters but regular conservatives, too. In the end, I may not agree with a lot of Trudeau's decisions, but holy fuck, at least he's admired and respected on a global scale. (apologies to 'muricans D: )
    At the very least they are not welcome in the Parti Québecois, which is pretty left wing all things considered. I mean even the "charter of value" was more about laicism then anything... although it somewhat devolved. And the PQ lost their elections on it, I though it was good in theory (as religion truly doesn't have a place in the public sphere), but the some of the arguments for it where truly distasteful... (specially the whole "let's keep our christian flag" and "don't remove the crucifix from the parliement"). But let's not forget that this was a brief incident that isn't likely to repeat itself.

    [EDIT] To be clear, I though the charter of value made sense at first, but on further reflexion I don't agree on the aspect of telling people how to dress, or at the very least, I think it's petty and that there are better was to fight the influence of religion on society.[EDIT]

    Also, I'm a 100% certain that the terrorist that attacked the mosque in Quebec didn't vote PQ, hell, he probably depised it. The trash radios that groom such comportements are truly at odds with the independentist movement.

    All in all, I'm more concerned about a federalist party like the Action Democratique du Québec (ADQ) or the conservatives of Québec appealing to xenophobes and racists.

    As for the federal level, I'm somewhat confident, after all, something like half of canadians are immigrants or of recent immigrant descent (2nd or 3rd gen). I mean, even Harper wasn't anti immigrant...

    Quote Originally Posted by Femme View Post
    That's true. Unfortunately English has become the be-all-and-end-all language across the globe, and it'll be close to impossible to just start forcing the use of french on the rest of Canada where anglophones vastly outnumber francophones. I see Canada as similar to other countries that have more than one official language, but one of them is more commonly used than the other.

    I suppose that Canada supporting more years of French in schools instead of the meager few years that's required now might help, but in the end the dominant language tends to be the most commonly used one in the end. A lot of other countries suffer this struggle as well, like China where a lot of the dialects are slowly becoming lost in favour of the official Mandarin or Cantonese. The official use of french in the government sphere will always keep it alive, though. This past election's speeches being half french/half english all the time was pretty interesting lol.
    Thing is, is forces us to keep the borderline discriminatory poicies (law 101, etc.) against english. Something that wouldn't be necessary in a free Quebec. It also means a lot of hassle for the rest of Canada...

    I do think that the rights of englo-quebequers would be better preserved in an independent Quebec, paradoxally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Femme View Post
    Better impact on the world? Can you elaborate?
    For exemple, on the environnemental front, a lot of Quebec's efforts on the greenhouse gas are drowned in the huge emissions from the tar sands (almost all of our power comes from hydro of wind power). And pretty big efforts to reduce remaining greenhouse gas have been made in recent decades. I do believe we would be a leader in that domain (kind of already are to a lesser degree, as we are not a nation).

    Also, it would be refreshing to be gone with the debate about Quebec's independence and focus on other things (both in Quebec and Canada I believe). I also think that Quebec would be one more positive influence at the united nations...
    Last edited by Sparsebeard; October 13th, 2017 at 12:46 AM.

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparsebeard View Post
    Macron seems by far the most resonnable and centrist president that France could get. I mean, it does seem that France's public function is a bit bloated and too much taxes kill taxes.

    Plus, he seems to be a resonnable progressist who truly wants to make Europe work, pro-integration, not xenophobic and some good will towards nations in difficulty like Greece. Truly, I feel that politicians like that are the hope of Europe if he has his way, I feel he could truly make it work.

    He's got none of the bad traits of the left (hate towards the wealth creators, illogical taxation ambitions, exageration on the role of the state, etc.) and the right (racisism, patriotism, anti-environnementalism, corruption to help lobbyists, etc.).
    Taxing yachts, supercars and jewelry is the only "lefty" thing Macron said he'll do. I don't get how Macron is a centrist. And I don't get why centrism is reason and philosophy. Is it because everything that is in the middle is wisdom ?


    As for the environmental policies, I guess they just don't count as a lefty thing anymore.



    Also you're making it sound like he was the only pro-EU candidate in the last elections.

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    I think that since lots of voters are getting tired of messiah-like left politicians and last-century-thinking right politicians, that the moderate and professional look of centrist simply becomes the way to go for many.








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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparsebeard View Post
    For others it's about "culture", multi-culturalism may be seen as a threat when your culture is treated on the same level as that of new arrivants.
    This doesn't make any sense. My understanding was that Quebec was immigrant leery because immigrants ignore French and go right to English in terms of becoming Canadian, outside of that though multi-culturalism would be if anything exactly what French-Canadians should be all about. Versus the Anglo cultural overshadowing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monquito View Post
    I think that since lots of voters are getting tired of messiah-like left politicians
    The only place on earth that has had a rash of left wing populists is South America. Otherwise no one has any idea what you're talking about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    It all comes down to Sweden in the end.


    That's one thing you can never take away from us.

    You can take our lives but never our social awkwardness

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nilitch View Post
    Taxing yachts, supercars and jewelry is the only "lefty" thing Macron said he'll do. I don't get how Macron is a centrist. And I don't get why centrism is reason and philosophy. Is it because everything that is in the middle is wisdom ?


    As for the environmental policies, I guess they just don't count as a lefty thing anymore.



    Also you're making it sound like he was the only pro-EU candidate in the last elections.
    It seemed that last electionn where either euroscepticals, extreme left or extreme right. I'm curious who would you have rather had won?

    Being pro-europe and pro-environnement, are pretty left wing things, conbined to the fact that he's not a xenophobe, a gun nut or a religious nutjob... Yeah, I'd say he's to the left where it's important.

    All, the while, he's pragmatic enough to realise that unemployment is more of a problem than keeping perks of those who have a job (but nothing too extreme that can't be reversed in the future), common, at best he's bringing workers laws to a level where they can compete with other countries.

    As for public function layouts, the % of people working in the public sector seems way too high to be sustainable in my opinion. Plus, it'll make space for future employement in the private sector.

    As for being too business friendly... How the hell is that a problem. I mean you have to agree that propositions like 75% tax rates on rich people where ridiculous and downright improductive... unless you want all business people to leave the country and only huge corporations who can afford to navigate to bureaucracy to remain (which pretty much means a stagnant economy...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    This doesn't make any sense. My understanding was that Quebec was immigrant leery because immigrants ignore French and go right to English in terms of becoming Canadian, outside of that though multi-culturalism would be if anything exactly what French-Canadians should be all about. Versus the Anglo cultural overshadowing.
    It is for most, however some see it as an attempt by the anglo majority to weaken the french "demands". putting englo culture first as a matter of the reality on the ground and then, other cultures (of which french is only one one them), especially outside Quebec where billingualism tends to annoy the anglo majority... For exemple, in a province like British-Columbia or or Alberta, it's easy to make a case that the franco culture doesn't deserve more attention (like obligation to provide public services in french) than, ememple, chinese (which are more numerous)...

    Also, it doesn't help that the 1982 constitution which enshrines multiculturalism was passed in secret whitout Quebec' most revered leader (Rene Levesque) consent in what is known in french as "la nuit des longs couteaux" (night of the long knifes). Said constitution hasn't been signed to this day, even federalists parties are kind of pissed about it...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitchen_Meeting

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparsebeard View Post
    For exemple, in a province like British-Columbia or or Alberta, it's easy to make a case that the franco culture doesn't deserve more attention (like obligation to provide public services in french) than, ememple, chinese (which are more numerous)...
    Why would French-Canadians care about "preservation" or equalization of French with English in eastern Canada?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Why would French-Canadians care about "preservation" or equalization of French with English in eastern (you probally meant western?) Canada?
    The "ressentement" of being turned from the majority into the minority over the centuries (thourgh deliberates policies) and plenty of percieved historical injustices maybe?

    Also, anglos HAVE been kind of jerks in the past... Did you know, for exemple, that chapters of the KKK in the prairies targeted French-Canadians.

    Finally, what's even the point of staying in Canada if the rights of our brethens in the rest of Canada aren't respected... kind of an emotionnal argument more then anything else though...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparsebeard View Post
    The "ressentement" of being turned from the majority into the minority over the centuries (thourgh deliberates policies) and plenty of percieved historical injustices maybe?
    When was the last time the French-Canadians were the majority? And in the eastern provinces were they ever a majority?

    Also, anglos HAVE been kind of jerks in the past... Did you know, for exemple, that chapters of the KKK in the prairies targeted French-Canadians.
    The KKK (in form two) was quite fond of targeting Catholic ethnicities in the US as well, it has a Protestant supremacism baked in it that is mostly forgotten about these days. So this doesn't surprise me in the least.

    Finally, what's even the point of staying in Canada if the rights of our brethens in the rest of Canada aren't respected... kind of an emotionnal argument more then anything else though...
    What right isn't being respected in say British Columbia exactly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    When was the last time the French-Canadians were the majority? And in the eastern provinces were they ever a majority?

    What right isn't being respected in say British Columbia exactly?
    The one of main reason for french people in new orleans is the deportation of acadians from eastern provinces: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acadians#Deportation

    About British Columbia, I don't even know if there is seisable french community there...

    But Manitoba' demographics for exemple were forcibly altered: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Manitoban#History

    Still, an anglophone can be understood and served in english pretty much anywhere in Canada (even in Quebec). The opposite ain't true despite the fact that Canada is officially billangual (not that it would neccessarly be economicaly partical to do so).

    Not really on subject, but here is some poetry from the quiet revolution if you are interested:



    Translation:

    Spoiler:
    Speak White

    Speak white
    It sounds so good when you
    Speak of Paradise Lost
    And of the gracious and anonymous profile that trembles
    In Shakespeare's sonnets

    We're an uncultured stammering race
    But we are not deaf to the genius of a language
    Speak with the accent of Milton and Byron and Shelley and Keats
    Speak white
    And forgive us our only answer
    Being the raucous songs of our ancestors
    And the sorrows of Nelligan

    Speak white

    Talk about this and that
    Tell us about Magna Carta
    Or the Lincoln Memorial
    The grey charm of the Thames
    The pink waters of the Potomac
    Tell us about your traditions
    As a people we don't really shine
    But we're quite capable of appreciating
    All the significance of crumpets
    Or the Boston Tea Party

    But when you really speak white
    When you get down to brass tacks

    To talk about gracious living
    And speak of standing in life
    And the Great Society
    A bit stronger then, speak white
    Raise your foremen's voices
    We're a bit hard of hearing
    We live too close to the machines
    And we only hear the sound of our breathing over the tools.

    Speak white and loud
    So that we can hear you
    From St-Henri to St-Domingue
    What an admirable tongue
    For hiring
    Giving orders
    Setting the time for working yourself to death
    And for the pause that refreshes
    And invigorates the dollar

    Speak white
    Tell us that God is a great big shot
    And that we're paid to trust him
    Speak white
    Talk to us about production profits and percentages
    Speak white
    It's a rich langauge
    For buying
    But for selling
    But for selling your soul
    But for selling out

    Ah!
    Speak white
    Big deal
    But to tell you about
    The eternity of a day on strike
    To tell the story of
    How a race of servants live
    But for us to come home at night
    At the time that the sun snuffs itself out over the backstreets
    But to tell you yes that the sun is setting yes
    Every day of our lives to the east of your empires
    There's nothing to match a language of swearwords
    Our none-too-clean parlure
    Greasy and oil-stained.

    Speak white
    Be easy in your words
    We're a race that holds grudges
    But let's not criticize anyone
    For having a monopoly
    On correcting language

    In Shakespeare's soft tongue
    With the accent of Longfellow
    Speak a pure and atrociously white French
    Like in Vietnam, like in the Congo
    Speak impeccable German
    A yellow star between your teeth
    Speak Russian speak call to order speak repression
    Speak white
    It is a universal language
    We were born to understand it
    With its teargas words
    With its nightstick words

    Speak white
    Tell us again about Freedom and Democracy
    We know that liberty is a black word
    Just as poverty is black
    And just as blood mixes with dust in the steets of Algiers
    And Little Rock

    Speak white
    From Westminster to Washington take it in turn
    Speak white like they do on Wall Street
    White like they do in Watts
    Be civilized
    And understand us when we speak of circumstances
    When you ask us politely
    How do you do
    And we hear you say
    We're doing all right
    We're doing fine
    We
    Are not alone

    We know
    That we are not alone

    Michèle Lalonde, 1970, translated Albert Herring, 2001–2012
    Last edited by Sparsebeard; October 13th, 2017 at 11:52 PM.

  18. #58
    Discovered Stowaway fedcom's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    This doesn't make any sense. My understanding was that Quebec was immigrant leery because immigrants ignore French and go right to English in terms of becoming Canadian, outside of that though multi-culturalism would be if anything exactly what French-Canadians should be all about. Versus the Anglo cultural overshadowing.
    It's not just about language. Like La Meute wouldn't be happy with a Senegalese hijabi being allowed to immigrate to Canada, just because she speaks French. I think it's similar to places like Newfoundland or the Maritimes- Quebec just has a stronger ethnic identity than most of the country and xenophobia stems from not wanting that identity to change.
    NNID: julsjacket

  19. #59

    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparsebeard View Post
    It seemed that last election where either euroscepticals, extreme left or extreme right. I'm curious who would you have rather had won?
    Benoit Hamon (social-dem), Francois Fillon (radical right), Jean-Luc Mélenchon (radical left). They are not extremists and the only euro-skeptical one among them is Mélenchon.


    Being pro-europe and pro-environnement, are pretty left wing things
    No it's really not. Stop thinking the Brexit is a far-righty thing and that the EU is the new SovietUnion.
    And pro-environment just means having a brain tbh.


    conbined to the fact that he's not a xenophobe, a gun nut or a religious nutjob... Yeah, I'd say he's to the left where it's important.
    Those things do not apply to France. gun nut, really ?? And every right-wingers in France aren't xenophobes and neither are they all religious nutjobs.
    But you know liberalism is a right-wing thing here right ?


    All, the while, he's pragmatic enough to realize that unemployment is more of a problem than keeping perks of those who have a job (but nothing too extreme that can't be reversed in the future), common, at best he's bringing workers laws to a level where they can compete with other countries.
    oh you're a liberal then
    The labor laws aren't gonna get reversed just like that. Sarkozy, Hollande and now Macron have been/are slashing labor laws slowly and step by step.

    And yeah I know Macron likes to make himself sound like the rough but wise guy. You know he is a---- realist. He didn't even have a program to get elected because it's too much 2012, he is a post-modernist (lol).
    The labor laws aren't gonna be reversed at all. What liberals want in France is to pass the reforms Germany did 2decades ago. There isn't gonna be much unemployment but heyyy, everyone's gonna be poor.
    Last edited by Nilitch; October 14th, 2017 at 04:28 AM.

  20. #60
    Don't know what to say... Monquito's Avatar
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    XereX

    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    I though Germany was rich.








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