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Thread: European Politics Thread

  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monquito View Post
    I though Germany was rich.
    The nation yes, but they have alot of working poor.

  2. #62
    King of Little Sisters ~ Chrior's Avatar
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    Which is perfectly demonstrated by the voting patterns of former East Germany, where the far right had huuuuuuge results, just like the american south went for Trump, or north England voted for Brexit and UKIP before Labour turned back to the left. It is easy to undestand and it's been a repeating pattern for a while now. Former working class constituencies have been progressively abandoned by the left with the argument that globalisation means that we must deregulate labour and yada yada yada. So after decades of degradation of their living standards and a lack of political alternatives, these far right parties have started to look appealing. Well, gues what. Maybe if left-wing parties actually implemented left-wing policies again like raising minimum wages, increasing subsidies for unemployment, families, etc., these people currently going to the far right would be kept in the mainstream. Most formerly centre-left social-democratic parties today are reduced to neoliberals with only superficial differences compared to formerly centre-right christian democrats. I don't know what's going on in the nordic countries though, they were always presented to me as this near but far social-democratic paradise where everyone has a well paid job, a nice house, and retires at 60.

    But honestly, current labour laws, wages, and taxing systems are the best they have been for big time companies and investors since before the great depression. And still we see no significantly positive effects on western economies. Most of the positive effects of neoliberal policies exhausted themselves in the 1990s, when Third Way "social-democrats" started to buy into these types of policies but with the added component of increased state spending at the cost of public debt in order to mask the consequences of the new economic order. Surprise surprise, it all went bust when this system built on top of massive debts came crashing down in 2009-2011. But for some reason, the people in charge of our societies did not learn much from this gigantic crisis, and instead of inverting the direction like, oh I don't know, friggin' Roosevelt with the New Deal, we're seeing an insistence from ruling parties in the kind of policies that led to this disaster in the first place.
    Last edited by Chrior; October 14th, 2017 at 09:04 AM.
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn. (Socrates (Σωκράτης) method to enlighten people, ca. 500 BC)

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparsebeard View Post
    The one of main reason for french people in new orleans is the deportation of acadians from eastern provinces: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acadians#Deportation
    Ah shit, I meant to say western provinces. Thus the British Columbia mention.
    Yeah I know about Acadia.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Monquito View Post
    I though Germany was rich.
    East Germany, the part that was a separate communist country until 89' or so, is to this day notably poorer and less developed than the rest of Germany.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrior View Post
    Which is perfectly demonstrated by the voting patterns of former East Germany, where the far right had huuuuuuge results, just like the american south went for Trump, or north England voted for Brexit and UKIP before Labour turned back to the left. It is easy to undestand and it's been a repeating pattern for a while now. Former working class constituencies have been progressively abandoned by the left with the argument that globalisation means that we must deregulate labour and yada yada yada. So after decades of degradation of their living standards and a lack of political alternatives, these far right parties have started to look appealing. Well, gues what. Maybe if left-wing parties actually implemented left-wing policies again like raising minimum wages, increasing subsidies for unemployment, families, etc., these people currently going to the far right would be kept in the mainstream. Most formerly centre-left social-democratic parties today are reduced to neoliberals with only superficial differences compared to formerly centre-right christian democrats. I don't know what's going on in the nordic countries though, they were always presented to me as this near but far social-democratic paradise where everyone has a well paid job, a nice house, and retires at 60.
    This is deeply underestimating the particular identity politics spell that the Republicans have over working class whites in the US. And how much Trump embodies a full fledged explosion of that rather than something new.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    This is deeply underestimating the particular identity politics spell that the Republicans have over working class whites in the US. And how much Trump embodies a full fledged explosion of that rather than something new.
    Well, but even still, I think Trump's campaign message also worked on these types of feelings that have been affecting similar communities in western european countries as well. Which is why he won the race against more typical conservative republican candidates in the first place. It's part of a wider movement common to our societies, I think. But I know I don't have nearly enough expertise on internal USA stuff to argue against you.
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn. (Socrates (Σωκράτης) method to enlighten people, ca. 500 BC)

  5. #65
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    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ojections-show

    Far right strikes back, this time in Austria. Although results weren't as good as projections initially showed, the next government is thought to be a coalition between the centre-right conservatives and the far right, with focus on stopping immigration and fighting Islam. Isn't this just great.
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn. (Socrates (Σωκράτης) method to enlighten people, ca. 500 BC)

  6. #66

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    Lots of art school rejection anxiety in Austria.

  7. #67

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    Haven't refugees stopped coming from the east ? Erdogan is supposed to be holding them.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrior View Post
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ojections-show

    Far right strikes back, this time in Austria. Although results weren't as good as projections initially showed, the next government is thought to be a coalition between the centre-right conservatives and the far right, with focus on stopping immigration and fighting Islam. Isn't this just great.
    Oh crap :/ I'm gonna be there for a day in November touring around the city.. hope I don't get harassed.
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  9. #69

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    Alot of these groups work on the assumption that the point of non-muslim return has already been passed and the only way to slow the progress down is to employ deportations. So i'd imagine that even if not a single more refugee turned up in Austria this year they'd still want to "stop immigration"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Femme View Post
    Oh crap :/ I'm gonna be there for a day in November touring around the city.. hope I don't get harassed.
    Punch them if they try any of that shit.

    But i assume you'll be travelling through some major city which probably is more chill

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    Punch them if they try any of that shit.

    But i assume you'll be travelling through some major city which probably is more chill
    Yep, Vienna. I did hear that people are generally not.. outwardly friendly to strangers, so I guess I shouldn't confuse that with the results of this election.
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  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by Femme View Post
    Yep, Vienna. I did hear that people are generally not.. outwardly friendly to strangers, so I guess I shouldn't confuse that with the results of this election.
    So what did you hear about the austrians then? Are they ice robot people like us or what?

  12. #72

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    I think Vienna still voted leftwing.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    So what did you hear about the austrians then? Are they ice robot people like us or what?
    I heard that people generally on the streets in Vienna wasn't the smiling friendlyish sort of interactions we're used to in north america lol. All i'm saying is if I see people giving me looks in Vienna I'd rather think first that "oh this is just how people behave here" rather than "oh they're looking at me like that cuz they've got a super right wing leader" :P
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  14. #74

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    Don't you worry, Femme. Vienna may not have the friendliest people but we're a swell city overall. ;-)

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzeru View Post
    Don't you worry, Femme. Vienna may not have the friendliest people but we're a swell city overall. ;-)
    Oh crap you're from Vienna? :D awesome!

    Sorry if I offended you o.o I just tend to prepare myself mentally for these sorts of things since I tend to deal with racism and such when I travel.
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  16. #76
    King of Little Sisters ~ Chrior's Avatar
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    I know this is not about politics, but I have to share this since it is not reaching international newspapers.

    http://algarvedailynews.com/news/12762-portugal-ablaze

    A gigantic wave of wildfires in Portugal is causing utter chaos throughout the North and Centre of the country, cutting off numerous roads, highways, and train lines. People have to seek shelter in service stations along the roads because they get trapped, villages have been evacuated in various points, houses and factories have been burned, 3 people have died, it is utter madness here, scary as hell. Temperatures have reached 35 degrees Celsius today in places where even during Summer time it is unusual to be so hot, wind is very very strong. I keep hearing firemen trucks, ambulances, and police cars dashing all over the place, my house smells like smoke and everyone is panicking. My gf was on the road and nearly caught by the fires, she had to turn back home asap. Communication lines are completely full and police/guard members are sometimes clueless as to what is going on in each place. Utter madness. Protection services are stretched to breaking point and it is simply impossible to deal with so many large fires in so many different points. The priorities right now are to evacuate people in danger and stop fires from reaching inhabited areas, while waiting for the rain to come in the morning.
    Number of fires has reached 443. Galicia in northwest Spain is going through a similar problem, Vigo is basically surrounded by fires.
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn. (Socrates (Σωκράτης) method to enlighten people, ca. 500 BC)

  17. #77
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    Stay safe Chrior, and anyone else that is on the forum that lives in those areas!

  18. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by Femme View Post
    I heard that people generally on the streets in Vienna wasn't the smiling friendlyish sort of interactions we're used to in north america lol. All i'm saying is if I see people giving me looks in Vienna I'd rather think first that "oh this is just how people behave here" rather than "oh they're looking at me like that cuz they've got a super right wing leader" :P
    Just think of it like that they are offering you the courtesy of not wasting your time with insincere pleasentries and put on smiles. Man talk about great people who won't waterdown the concept of the smile by using it as a mask. Man those ice robot people sure are taking extra steps to think about how their actions could affect an innocent stranger like yourself. Imagine if they went around all hey how are you hows the wife when they don't really give a damn. What a crazy and shallow world to imagine. Or y'know maybe it just wasn't in their programming. Or maybe they are just jerks, could be that too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Femme View Post
    Oh crap you're from Vienna? :D awesome!

    Sorry if I offended you o.o I just tend to prepare myself mentally for these sorts of things since I tend to deal with racism and such when I travel.
    Just throw a schnitzel on him and he'll be fine.

    We all know the garden variety Austrian can't resist breaded veal.

    And once he's calm and nice again he can show you the sights. Win-win

  19. #79

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    North American cities are smiley and friendly in the streets (??)

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    Just think of it like that they are offering you the courtesy of not wasting your time with insincere pleasentries and put on smiles. Man talk about great people who won't waterdown the concept of the smile by using it as a mask. Man those ice robot people sure are taking extra steps to think about how their actions could affect an innocent stranger like yourself. Imagine if they went around all hey how are you hows the wife when they don't really give a damn. What a crazy and shallow world to imagine. Or y'know maybe it just wasn't in their programming. Or maybe they are just jerks, could be that too.



    Just throw a schnitzel on him and he'll be fine.

    We all know the garden variety Austrian can't resist breaded veal.

    And once he's calm and nice again he can show you the sights. Win-win
    Eek I feel like a jerk who stereotyped Austria real bad D: I'm sure ill have a lovely time there including interactions with people! It was my choice to include it in the trip anyhow! I'm just terribly pessimistic sometimes and I should've thought twice about my phrasing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    North American cities are smiley and friendly in the streets (??)
    Well not like all the time, but interacting with strangers is generally easy here... not so in your city?
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