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Thread: Chapter 891: Believing in me

  1. #161

    Default Re: Chapter 891: Believing in me

    I guess the last yonko commanders we've seen in this latest arcs show how differently you can be powerful in the new world.

    Jack being so mean and powerful
    Cracker with a smart use of his DF
    Katakuri with crazy CoO
    Smoothie having long legs

    Beside being hyped so much Kata has yet to show an overwhelming power to finish Luffy, he maybe relied to much on being one step ahead to develop more strength to crush enemies, also having BM on top of him

    Btw being a Yonko means to be way over this level and I think we've seen this in this Arc (and also in Marineford), where a single person made more damage than all of the other characters.

    The point on katakuri is about progression. Luffy couldn't be already at yonkou level otherwise the story would suck and be shallow. It has to be shown that, even with G4, he has a long way to go before taking Kaido head on. Once he master CoO he'll going to awake his fruit, and then he needs to release his Conqueror's Haki.

    Awakening at this point is a case and I believe that this part will be settled before fighting Kaido. What Oda said in recent interviews made me think that before Wano (or Kaido anyway) we are going to see another major fight of Luffy and to me that would be against Weevil, later on the story would not make sense, and that Awakening will be found in that fight. I'm really curious to see what Oda want to do with Luffy awakening since he's been crazy creative with his fighting style through all series.

    In any case, Kata is going down, maybe Luffy will spare him if he let him pass after being subdued just to be kind with flambe' but there is no way he's not going with his back on the floor.
    "I'm simply an accident. Why take it all so seriously?"

  2. #162

    Default Re: Chapter 891: Believing in me

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    It's also awesome for Base Luffy to finally be shown in a competent light again instead of needing to rely on Gear Fourth as a crutch like how the Saiyans need to constantly transform in Dragon Ball Z.
    Yes that was great to see. This is the one thing I don´t like about his gears. That without the boost he was shown to be unable to compete with the monsters of the world, which makes it seem like he is average without his fruit.
    At least in Dragon Ball, you had baseline Goku as the strongest fighter on Earth before the next level oponents were introduced - cyborgs, artificial beings, demons, aliens, gods.

    In OP world, there are humans and humanoid animals, some cyborgs with superpowers from fruits. There should be some sort of baseline physical strength cap.
    Luffy is the grandson of Garp and has trained all his life. The only people who should be physically stronger than his current base form are complete freaks of nature like Big Mom (who was owning giants as a kid) or somebody who has similar crazy genes, has also trained all his life and is older and more experienced than Luffy, like Katakuri or an Admiral.
    Then we see physical feats of Zoro and Sanji, which make it seem like they´re on par with or stronger than base Luffy, which should not be the case (yes they also train hard).

    Anyway, the action panels from the Luffy vs Kata duel were amazing this chapter.

    I also agree on the Observation leveling-up part, seems like a one-time thing, specific to the enemy he faces. Would be weird if Luffy started outpredicting all of his enemies from now on. That´s why I wish he´d win through something like a focused Conqueror manifestation (pressure) to disrupt Kata´s Observation flow (concentration) or deplete his Haki at a higher rate.
    Last edited by Nubtro; January 13th, 2018 at 09:00 AM.

  3. #163

    Default Re: Chapter 891: Believing in me

    Quote Originally Posted by BingBang View Post
    This is not about winning but about LEARNING. Thanks to this fight he is learning how to see into the future. Luffy was defeated multiple times and the point here is to give time to the other so they can escape. I know he is going to defeat Katakuri but i feel more interesting a draw because if not Oda is offering the same thing over and over again. The main "heroe" defeats every bad guy he fights. So that's what i think about a draw.
    It can never be a draw. Don't you get it? People still can't accept he would have beaten Mingo or Cracker on his own and you think that fight where Katakuri is toying with him will be accepted as draw? The fan club said Katakuri is not having trouble only Luffy is been resilient. The story will be Katakuri would have beaten him anyways but he let him go, hence, his life was spared.
    THAT *PIRATE ALLIANCE*!! THE HEAVENLY YAKSHA HAS DEFEATED DOFLAMINGO ~~~~!!

  4. #164

    Default Re: Chapter 891: Believing in me

    I wonder where did CP0 plot will lead, stussy here and all. Just so wg can know what luffy did to BM? But then again morgans should be enough ,they don't need their own man here. There is also the thing that former villain lucci is new leader of CP0. And didn't carmel try to make dea lwith cp0 or just some other wg guy?

  5. #165

    Default Re: Chapter 891: Believing in me

    Quote Originally Posted by uniaka ikuzakas View Post
    I wonder where did CP0 plot will lead, stussy here and all. Just so wg can know what luffy did to BM? But then again morgans should be enough ,they don't need their own man here.
    Well, Stussy there could warn the Marines/CP about BMP being in a weakened state and that their surveillance system is down.
    FC.0147-0584-2654

  6. #166

    Default Re: Chapter 891: Believing in me

    The most interesting part I see in this Chapter is the scene when Luffy uses an "Elephant Gun" to fight against a f*cking giant "Power Mochi" Punch - which is Katakuri's strongest attack so far.
    We can all remember the last the Luffy used his "Elephant Gun" against Katakuri normal giant punch, and got owned so easy...
    This must be a sign to tell us that Luffy Haki is getting stronger and stronger each time he took hit from Katakuri's Haki attacks.

  7. #167

    Default Re: Chapter 891: Believing in me

    Quote Originally Posted by Riddler View Post
    Am I the only one who liked Flambe?I thought she was fun and I like the design, but most people seem rather annoyed that panel time was wasted on her.
    If I have to be honest, it's not that I didn't like her. The idea of introducing a fangirly littlesister is hilarious - I'd love to see her interact with Katakuri - her design is funny, and having reinforcements interfere (or fail to) in the fight makes perfect sense. Alas, she comes out of nowhere so late in the game when so much has already happened with Katakuri the mirror world that I find it difficult to give her much attention. She could have been hinted a lot earlier, if only very subtly, so that her presence this chapter would feel more natural.

    Speaking of the mirror world, whatever happened to Brulee ? I don't think we've seen her anywhere this chapter, in fact maybe we didn't see her at all since Luffy's "break". How does he even plan to exit the mirror world if she was left behind ?
    Unless there are permanent access points that don't require Brulee's touch - and leading to one of them could be a possible use of Flambée. She has to have entered somehow, unless she was there all along in which case see above comment.

    Also still on Flambée, which of the elder brothers do you think refused to name her as his favorite ? My money is on Katakuri who probably finds all the attention annoying.

  8. #168

    Default Re: Chapter 891: Believing in me

    Quote Originally Posted by Seafarer33 View Post
    If I have to be honest, it's not that I didn't like her. The idea of introducing a fangirly littlesister is hilarious - I'd love to see her interact with Katakuri - her design is funny, and having reinforcements interfere (or fail to) in the fight makes perfect sense. Alas, she comes out of nowhere so late in the game when so much has already happened with Katakuri the mirror world that I find it difficult to give her much attention. She could have been hinted a lot earlier, if only very subtly, so that her presence this chapter would feel more natural.

    Speaking of the mirror world, whatever happened to Brulee ? I don't think we've seen her anywhere this chapter, in fact maybe we didn't see her at all since Luffy's "break". How does he even plan to exit the mirror world if she was left behind ?
    Unless there are permanent access points that don't require Brulee's touch - and leading to one of them could be a possible use of Flambée. She has to have entered somehow, unless she was there all along in which case see above comment.

    Also still on Flambée, which of the elder brothers do you think refused to name her as his favorite ? My money is on Katakuri who probably finds all the attention annoying.
    Seems obvious to me it's Katakuri.

  9. #169
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    Default Re: Chapter 891: Believing in me

    Aw the Tontattas playing pirates. I wonder if they will actually set sail, I hope someone else travels with them because they will get taken advantage of.

    I think the first page is the most interesting of them all. It gives the perspective that even regular citizens are aware of the fight between Luffy and Katakuri. I would prefer Katakuri to be knocked out, but I understand if they do a symbolic defeat with his back touching the ground. I see Oda is enjoying personifying fandom first with Barto and now with Flambe.

    I think that if Morgans is serious about getting the biggest scoop, he will start following the Straw Hats around, after the events from Whole Cake Island, not only will he have one of the most exciting stories to tell, but he might have noticed the pattern with Monkey D. Luffy. I have joked around about his future roles, but I can see him becoming relevant as the events at the end of the story are unfolding.

    I think that Stussy has noticed that the more the Big Mom Pirates chase the Straw Hats, they grow weaker and lose focus elsewhere. If she notified the navy once the castle fell. Her telling that the Tamatebako box was what caused the explosion will have the Big Mom Pirates focus on Luffy more, becoming vulnerable for an attack. With Stussy showing up with Niwatori and D'Or, we can assume she overheard about the territorial sea slugs not working.

    The cake is complete. I hope that besides the Big Mom pirates being worried about it being poisoned, and maybe Germa actually trying to poison it, I hope this cake doesn't get destroyed. If Big Mom gets knocked out, then her crew might believe she has been assassinated. And if she is unconscious, for how long?

    Big Mom is looking fierce, I wonder if Sanji will sky walk with the cake to his ship.

    Random thoughts:
    I think it could be interesting if Luffy also ate the cake and gets knocked out. And then as they travel to Wano, Chopper and Sanji are feeding him the 99 recipes and healing him for the upcoming fight.
    If Mother Carmel's picture made Big Mom vulnerable from distress, could bliss make her vulnerable as well?

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    With all that being said, I really hope that they do not end up in friendly, neutral terms with the Big Mom pirates. The story can build interestingly by having them still as enemies.
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  10. #170
    Discovered Stowaway Riddler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 891: Believing in me

    Quote Originally Posted by Seafarer33 View Post

    Also still on Flambée, which of the elder brothers do you think refused to name her as his favorite ? My money is on Katakuri who probably finds all the attention annoying.
    Probably Katakuri, yeah. That makes the most sense and also explains why she wants to suck up to him - she needs his vote to achieve her goal of becoming the Little Sister King

  11. #171
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    Default Re: Chapter 891: Believing in me

    I thought the Shadow Clones in Naruto were a brilliant tool for the author to portray what happens when an attack connects / incident happens, without letting it actually happen for story reasons. Of course Kishimoto overused it for the sake of cheap suspense, but Katakuri level oberservation could be used in a similar fashion.

    Which would be okay with me if:

    1. It's used sparingly, at most once or twice in a big fight

    2. It's more or less clear that we witness a precognition (Mihawk / Luffy arm chop style)

  12. #172

    Default Re: Chapter 891: Believing in me

    Quote Originally Posted by Ping View Post
    The most interesting part I see in this Chapter is the scene when Luffy uses an "Elephant Gun" to fight against a f*cking giant "Power Mochi" Punch - which is Katakuri's strongest attack so far.
    We can all remember the last the Luffy used his "Elephant Gun" against Katakuri normal giant punch, and got owned so easy...
    This must be a sign to tell us that Luffy Haki is getting stronger and stronger each time he took hit from Katakuri's Haki attacks.
    Well we know
    Katakuri's elephant gun > luffy's
    And now luffy's = power mochi

    But the power mochi was never given an indication it was stronger than the other, and it's arguably a quicker but weaker attack as he can bring these things out pretty fast. Gear 3 isnt chump change though by any comparison, doffy would have felt an attack in G3 in it spun his jaw

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Ping View Post
    The most interesting part I see in this Chapter is the scene when Luffy uses an "Elephant Gun" to fight against a f*cking giant "Power Mochi" Punch - which is Katakuri's strongest attack so far.
    We can all remember the last the Luffy used his "Elephant Gun" against Katakuri normal giant punch, and got owned so easy...
    This must be a sign to tell us that Luffy Haki is getting stronger and stronger each time he took hit from Katakuri's Haki attacks.
    Also double quoting here but I think its less of a zenkai boost, every haki foght boosts your haki by 10% vs intense training will bring out your best results later on
    Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:
    So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?
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  13. #173

    Default Re: Chapter 891: Believing in me

    My only gripe with this chapter is how poor, VISUALLY the reveal that luffy is gaining future sight was. It felt like a regular use of obvservation haki, i could be wrong. To me what makes katakuri's future sight so OP is that he can predict your moves before you even make them while normal obv haki makes you dodge right before the attack hits. I never got that information from the visuals. Had Katakuri never mentioned that luffy is gaining future sight like he is i never would realized that he did.
    Last edited by ArabianPrynce; January 14th, 2018 at 01:12 AM. Reason: spelling

  14. #174

    Default Re: Chapter 891: Believing in me

    Quote Originally Posted by ArabianPrynce View Post
    My only gripe with this chapter is how poor, VISUALLY the reveal that luffy is gaining future sight was. It felt like a regular use of obvservation haki, i could be wrong. To me what makes katakuri's future sight so OP is that he can predict your moves before you even make them while normal obv haki makes you dodge right before the attack hits. I never got that information from the visuals. Had Katakuri never mentioned that luffy is gaining future sight like he is i never would realized that he did.
    Because that is what it is, Luffy is just reading attacks at this point, he's not predicting future yet.
    THAT *PIRATE ALLIANCE*!! THE HEAVENLY YAKSHA HAS DEFEATED DOFLAMINGO ~~~~!!

  15. #175

    Default Re: Chapter 891: Believing in me

    Quote Originally Posted by Sereques View Post
    Because that is what it is, Luffy is just reading attacks at this point, he's not predicting future yet.
    Luffy used a gear 3 attack to block that giant mochi punch. Gear 3 attacks take time to prepare. He needs to pump air into his fist. That has to take him at least a couple of seconds. He must've seen into the future that giant punch is coming. If he had regular observation in that moment he would probably only have enough time to dodge the attack.

  16. #176

    Default Re: Chapter 891: Believing in me

    Quote Originally Posted by Spinx View Post
    Luffy used a gear 3 attack to block that giant mochi punch. Gear 3 attacks take time to prepare. He needs to pump air into his fist. That has to take him at least a couple of seconds. He must've seen into the future that giant punch is coming. If he had regular observation in that moment he would probably only have enough time to dodge the attack.
    Power Mochi has a prep time too.
    THAT *PIRATE ALLIANCE*!! THE HEAVENLY YAKSHA HAS DEFEATED DOFLAMINGO ~~~~!!

  17. #177

    Default Re: Chapter 891: Believing in me

    Quote Originally Posted by Sereques View Post
    Power Mochi has a prep time too.
    But Luffy's eyes were closed. He didn't see the prep. He saw the future attack. Katakuri said it himself.

  18. #178
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    Default Re: Chapter 891: Believing in me

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    We already heard about it from Brûlée, but... it was only from Brûlée. Back then, it only felt like typical smug minion audience trash talk to me. Not really anywhere else. So I appreciate this chapter showing not just the sister, but a whole bunch of people eagerly anticipating the results of Luffy's fight with Katakuri. Now I really see how important Katakuri's existence is to his family.
    Actually, your reaction to this chapter was what I had already gathered from Brulée and other people, like Pudding telling Sanji that Katakuri has never been defeated, for example. I just felt that the message had been properly conveyed and introducing a random character, our of the blue, at the last possible minute, just for this purpose, was kind of unnecessary. I did not dislike it, I even like her design, I just thought it was useless and a little too late. And it contributed to making this chapter feel too short for my liking. I did like to see random minions try to snipe Luffy but never making any contact, I felt it was another step in Luffy developing his observation haki, along with the ensuing choreography against Katakuri. I have to say, this is probably Luffy's finest, most fun, and well drawn fight since Lucci. I liked the final bout versus Oars, but it was more of a Straw Hat combined fight. I liked the Doffy fight (unlike many folks here), in its various stages. But this one takes the cake. And seeing Luffy use Gear 4th for a bit and then return and develop his base form too is just what I wanted.

    Quote Originally Posted by .access timeco. View Post
    The only named character to witness the defeat of the undefeated pride of the Charlotte family not appearing again?
    Also, remember that Katakuri's will to keep his little secret still didn't played a part in this fight and it will only have any weigh if there are eyes to which it can be exposed. We can't tell for sure which part Flambé is going to play in this fight, but it seems obvious her introduction will serve a purpose beyond this very chapter.
    Why did it have to be this new character? Couldn't it be Brulée, who we were more familiar with and has said almost the exact same things as Flambé? Couldn't Luffy punch Katakuri through a bunch of mirrors, thus making his defeat a sort of televised event that all of Totto Land can see, including the dudes chilling at the destroyed castle (I'm looking at you, Count Niwatori and Montd'or!)? It just felt like another random character that Oda felt like introducing without much weight behind her, like Bavarois previously. You're free to take up the bet alongside Kaido though

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaido King of the Beasts View Post
    I'll accept that bet. If I lose, eh, you can pick the avatar
    Hm, wow. I should have made myself a bit more clear when I said she would not appear any further. I did not mean she would not appear at all in the following chapters, but whatever, I'm not gonna chicken out now and I need a new avatar, anyway. But I ask that you accept one exception: I think she will make a cameo of a couple of panels when Katakuri is finally defeated. If she appears in more than 2 panels then, I lose, how does that sound? Losers have to put a funny avatar of Smoothie, since if I lose this bet, Flambé will have become a more recurring character than Smoothie
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn. (Socrates (Σωκράτης) method to enlighten people, ca. 500 BC)

  19. #179

    Default Re: Chapter 891: Believing in me

    Quote Originally Posted by Ping View Post
    The most interesting part I see in this Chapter is the scene when Luffy uses an "Elephant Gun" to fight against a f*cking giant "Power Mochi" Punch - which is Katakuri's strongest attack so far.
    We can all remember the last the Luffy used his "Elephant Gun" against Katakuri normal giant punch, and got owned so easy...
    This must be a sign to tell us that Luffy Haki is getting stronger and stronger each time he took hit from Katakuri's Haki attacks.
    Strong Mochi seems to be empty inside(it is comming out of circles of Mochi) and covered in haki. Same as Luffys G3.


    It does not have weight that Katakuris gigantic mochi pistol had. Sure it is absurdly hard because of CoA and fast because of Light weight but it does not seem to have that Crushing force behind it.

  20. #180

    Default Re: Chapter 891: Believing in me

    now that i have re-read the chapter there's something i've noticed but it might just me reading too much into it.

    before the only attack of luffy that could ounter the "hard mochi" punch was gear fourth...but in this chapter we see luffy stopping one with just a gear third rifle.

    at first i just thought that t was just oda not caring that much about consistency..but then i noticed katakuri's glare and the fact that luffy punches the attack just as it appeared.

    basically what i think happened is that luffy read the attack and basically countered it before he could accelerate and gain enough force, and that is just after katakuri explained that he is doing the same thing with luffy, weakening his attacks by depriving him the chance to transfer strenght in his attacks.

    one part of my brain really hopes that is like iimagine (oda has not been in his best shape in terms of consistency lately), but the other just dismisses the thing as "oda dosn't really care"

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