Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)

[FelRes]

...You do realize I can now kick you out of this thread if I think you're just being random and spammy, right?

You like Pudding, fine. But keep things on-point from now on, and don't just post percentages and pics without reasoning behind it.

lol I've posted my thoughts on her plenty of times. These threads are nothing but constant repetition of the same stupid theories and people refusing to back down from whichever character like you with Carrot. The discussion in here goes on for hundreds of pages but never actually goes anywhere. Don't take it so seriously.

[Shift]

lol I've posted my thoughts on her plenty of times. These threads are nothing but constant repetition of the same stupid theories and people refusing to back down from whichever character like you with Carrot. The discussion in here goes on for hundreds of pages but never actually goes anywhere. Don't take it so seriously.

The problem is, you don't acknowledge when people have legitimate criticism with your theories. You can vouch for who you like, and you can argue against whomever you think won't fit. But you can't just stick your fingers in your ears and ignore rebuttals from those who disagree you, while still keeping on with the same "official" rankings as if no one said anything. And to complain about folks "refusing to back down" when that's really what you are doing, refusing to acknowledge anyone's arguments for characters you consider to be "not even in the running".

I point out how Oda chose to portray two characters, you respond with what amounts to mudslinging. I want to hear legitimate thoughts on why you think what I presented doesn't hurt Pudding's chances. I don't want pictures of pudding cups and carrot dishes without rhyme or reason to become the norm here. That's not conducive to real discussion, which is something I do take seriously, thank you very much.

And if you're tired of this kind of talk, why in the world are you still talking in here?

[Kurloz]

Plus there's the fact he might be based off the Yokai king Shuten-dōji
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuten-d%C5%8Dji

which would certainly make him/her unique enough to join the crew

This is really getting into conspiracy theory territory, but as long as we're on the topic, in the raws Oda spells Shuten as 酒天, which seems to be a less used variant spelling of the legendary Shuten. This name has the kanji for sake and ten/the heavens (天), and the sake jug we see Kaidou drinking from also has the kanji 天 on it. Maybe Shutenmaru has the most important role of all, Kaidou's booze provider.

Also IIRC Shuten-doji is Orochi's offspring in some legends.

[BobLoblaw]

The problem is, you don't acknowledge when people have legitimate criticism with your theories. You can vouch for who you like, and you can argue against whomever you think won't fit. But you can't just stick your fingers in your ears and ignore rebuttals from those who disagree you, while still keeping on with the same "official" rankings as if no one said anything. And to complain about folks "refusing to back down" when that's really what you are doing, refusing to acknowledge anyone's arguments for characters you consider to be "not even in the running".

I point out how Oda chose to portray two characters, you respond with what amounts to mudslinging. I want to hear legitimate thoughts on why you think what I presented doesn't hurt Pudding's chances. I don't want pictures of pudding cups and carrot dishes without rhyme or reason to become the norm here. That's not conducive to real discussion, which is something I do take seriously, thank you very much.

And if you're tired of this kind of talk, why in the world are you still talking in here?

There may be hope for this new thread after all! Keep this up and I'm gonna start a fan club. We'll be called the Shifties.

[.access timeco.]

Pudding professional skills -> Cook
Pudding (potential) unique abilities -> Reading poneglyphs
Pudding DF -> not 29

I mean, if people think Carrot is redundant...

I agree with ackwardstation that Carrot is being build up for some relevant role. Be the next SH is our take on it, but I can see other things on her way rather than that (if she is revealed a traitor - I can't see how that could possibly work, but whatever - I would probably like it even more than she joining).
As for Pudding it is similar, I see her definitely being more than simply a one-arc ally, she will still play a role in the story (I still have my hopes for Teach kidnapping her to have her as his Robin)... but being a SH is one I definitely rule out.

[X-Ray]

This is really getting into conspiracy theory territory, but as long as we're on the topic, in the raws Oda spells Shuten as 酒天, which seems to be a less used variant spelling of the legendary Shuten. This name has the kanji for sake and ten/the heavens (天), and the sake jug we see Kaidou drinking from also has the kanji 天 on it. Maybe Shutenmaru has the most important role of all, Kaidou's booze provider.

Also IIRC Shuten-doji is Orochi's offspring in some legends.

Interesting note, I did not pay attention to the booze part. I was researching a bit that legend and the others commonly associated with it. And there are couple of things that do catch my attention and kind of plays into the series. Ex. A sword name Onikiri Demon Slasher, and I remember there being talks about how some members wanted a High Grade Ko-Naginata and if I'm not mistaken that was one of the weapons used in the legend. The lineage is also another thing that caught my attention as you mentioned with Orochi.

Another interesting note now that you mentioned the booze. Shuten Dojo was incapacitated by Holy Sake, Orochi as well, albeit a different sake. And they are both associated with the location. Hmm. I cannot wait until this character finally is revealed. Doubt he'll be a part of the crew, BUT definitely will be a central part of the arc.

[theackwardstation]

Other maps exist, she can buy maps. What is important is that she is the one that navigates around the world, and she is going to trace the path around that. All Blue seems to be something that will occur within the series, unlike the potential of Nami completing the rest of maps if she indeed wanted to travel the entire globe, and visit each island personally. But most, if not all of the Straw Hats dreams will be concluded within the scope of the final war.

Most Strawhats' dreams will be concluded within the scope of the final war, yes, but just because that's how things will play out, not necessarily because that's the only logical outcome. Chopper will somehow become a doctor capable of curing any disease, the All Blue will be on the way, Nami will be able to draw a map of the New World because of some other maps (apparently) and... Carrot will have the greatest adventure while making the necessary efforts to bring the Dawn of the world. It works.

I repeat that Carrot may have another destination for her character arc... but it's also undeniable that becoming a Strawhat works for her current purpose (adventures) and possible future purpose (to help Luffy bring the Dawn of the world).

No, it is not as comparable because those scenarios are all for gags. Literally each and everyone of those has someone overreacting.

Something closer to it would be if Luffy said: Chopper you can also change color?! and Chopper overreacting telling Luffy that the Minks are not him.

The scene was not in that tone. It was not played for gags, no one was losing their minds. It was a simple remark.

I tend to think that author's share their values and their ideas through their work.

I know what a gag is... and it is something played for laughs, but also part of the character's mindset. Gags are not random, but coherent with the character. All the examples I mentioned happen to be part of Luffy's gag repertoire because they are a natural extension of Luffy's personality and how he simplifies or misunderstands many things.

That's Luffy's process of thinking. Therefore, Luffy is in-character when he makes his remark, even if it's not a gag.

An author speaks through its work, but this phenomenon is much more complex than considering every word of dialogue as something that the author believes in.

That is but one of Chopper's forms, his arm point falls in the category of boy with reindeer traits.

I do not disagree with you, I am sure Oda does have a more complex idea in the matter. And I think he clearly shows that with Chopper, having several different forms. Chopper encompasses quite a bit of the spectrum.

Arm Point doesn't exist anymore though, just as Jump Point was also erased after the time skip (and that's the form that would coincide the most with Carrot's skills).

Anyway, that doesn't matter. My argument is that "furry" is a really broad concept for design that can overlap with everything. Even Inuyasha is a furry. And that's the point, it's so meaningless to be a furry dsign-wise that there's no reason to be overly restrictive it.

For instance, Carrot is just another variation of design for a human girl... really, that's it! You're not supposed to look at her and think that the Strawhats bought another pet ("oh no, there's another animal in the crew!!"). Design-wise, Carrot is just an anime-like female character with an excuse to have rabbit ears and a tail to stand out from other women.

And Carrot is actually the most human-like named mink, which makes her more relatable to human readers. It's not like Wanda that has a snout, something that dehumanizes her face and could actually become detrimental for her chances of becoming a protagonist in a comic book.

[kevo_koma]

This might be far fetched BUT after the latest chapter I get the feeling that Tama will be the next person to inherit the StrawHat in the future.


One except for Nami, I think she's the only who's ever worn it.

Also the scene of Luffy getting pissed at Tama's injury reminds me of Shanks getting pissed that Luffy was beaten by the bandits.

[K. Kira XXIII]

Most Strawhats' dreams will be concluded within the scope of the final war, yes, but just because that's how things will play out, not necessarily because that's the only logical outcome. Chopper will somehow become a doctor capable of curing any disease, the All Blue will be on the way, Nami will be able to draw a map of the New World because of some other maps (apparently) and... Carrot will have the greatest adventure while making the necessary efforts to bring the Dawn of the world. It works.

I repeat that Carrot may have another destination for her character arc... but it's also undeniable that becoming a Strawhat works for her current purpose (adventures) and possible future purpose (to help Luffy bring the Dawn of the world).

And therefore being part of the fleet will also help upon bringing that dawn. That is also undeniable.

I know what a gag is... and it is something played for laughs, but also part of the character's mindset. Gags are not random, but coherent with the character. All the examples I mentioned happen to be part of Luffy's gag repertoire because they are a natural extension of Luffy's personality and how he simplifies or misunderstands many things.

That's Luffy's process of thinking. Therefore, Luffy is in-character when he makes his remark, even if it's not a gag.

As much as that is true, the use of gags in a narrative also have an intention. What you describe is how to make the gag work properly, but the intention of it is a different matter.

And at the end of the day, it is Luffy's perception of a character that matters, not our complex analysis of the spectrum of animal type characters, nor our ideas of why a character should travel with them. Carrot going on adventures can be accomplished independently as well.

An author speaks through its work, but this phenomenon is much more complex than considering every word of dialogue as something that the author believes in.

It is not as extreme as that, but you can tell by the context or tone and see what is the author's stand on certain issues. For example, Oda's views on women or his view in friendships.

Arm Point doesn't exist anymore though, just as Jump Point was also erased after the time skip (and that's the form that would coincide the most with Carrot's skills).

Anyway, that doesn't matter. My argument is that "furry" is a really broad concept for design that can overlap with everything. Even Inuyasha is a furry. And that's the point, it's so meaningless to be a furry dsign-wise that there's no reason to be overly restrictive it.

For instance, Carrot is just another variation of design for a human girl... really, that's it! You're not supposed to look at her and think that the Strawhats bought another pet ("oh no, there's another animal in the crew!!"). Design-wise, Carrot is just an anime-like female character with an excuse to have rabbit ears and a tail to stand out from other women.

And Carrot is actually the most human-like named mink, which makes her more relatable to human readers. It's not like Wanda that has a snout, something that dehumanizes her face and could actually become detrimental for her chances of becoming a protagonist in a comic book.

Alright. Horn point, reindeer boy, even more so than arm point.

[Blissed]

One except for Nami, I think she's the only who's ever worn it.

Actually Usopp, Robin, and Sweet Pea (A Kuja pirate) have all worn the hat.

[Monquito]

we keep in on with Shutenmaru name drops.
could be some kind of Ganfall, Wiper, Koza, Kyros, tho, theres already several characters playing the local rebel.
its really getting interesting enough, however i dont want to get Raizou'ed again.

--- Update From New Post Merge ---

Pudding professional skills -> Cook

shes a baker tho.

Pudding (potential) unique abilities -> Reading poneglyphs
Pudding DF -> not 29

we dont know at all how her ability works.

I mean, if people think Carrot is redundant...

cause there isn't a third eyed member, neither a brown-haired and leave alone a yonko-blood related member.

she's unique enough, I do give that she's really not in there to join the main crew, but her third eye ability will come into play, thats for sure.

[BattleFranky69]

This might be far fetched BUT after the latest chapter I get the feeling that Tama will be the next person to inherit the StrawHat in the future.


One except for Nami, I think she's the only who's ever worn it.

Also the scene of Luffy getting pissed at Tama's injury reminds me of Shanks getting pissed that Luffy was beaten by the bandits.

Or when they learned that the Franky Family beat up Usopp and stole their money. They weren't pissed about the money, they wanted to avenge their comrade. But I like that idea about Tama getting the hat, probably the first female to inherit it. But her not being a 'D' necessarily...will that matter, I wonder?

we keep in on with Shutenmaru name drops.
could be some kind of Ganfall, Wiper, Koza, Kyros, tho, theres already several characters playing the local rebel.
its really getting interesting enough, however i dont want to get Raizou'ed again.

--- Update From New Post Merge ---


shes a baker tho.

we dont know at all how her ability works.


cause there isn't a third eyed member, neither a brown-haired and leave alone a yonko-blood related member.

she's unique enough, I do give that she's really not in there to join the main crew, but her third eye ability will come into play, thats for sure.

Probably somewhat like Madame Shyarly, perhaps.

Shutenmaru does sound like a good candidate. Someone who is indeed good at sneaking, carrying large quantities and traversing great distances within a relatively short span, and performs these acts regularly in defiance of how dangerous it is, does sound like a much better candidate for a spy/scout/lookout than, say, Carrot. Throw in that they're probably a ninja badass with skills comparable to but not a result of a Devil Fruit (in my ideal outlook), and we're probably looking at someone with the skills to pay the bills in the long run. If they are also a sometimes brawler but have ninjutsu tools and techniques to boot, they'll make a perfect in-between fighter like Franky and Chopper who sometimes rely on brute strength but are also more versatile combatants. Now if we could confirm Shutenmaru was female...nah, dreams never come completely true like that.

[Monquito]

I'm not a japanese expert but Holdem refers to Shutenmaru as him.

Okiku's expression to hearing that name is also interesting.

[Kurloz]

I'm not a japanese expert but Holdem refers to Shutenmaru as him.

Okiku's expression to hearing that name is also interesting.

Well -maru is pretty exclusively a male name suffix unless the author is trying to make a point of something, that was to be expected.
I haven't seen the raw though, does Holdem refer to Shuten as "kare" or "ano otoko" or something?

[BattleFranky69]

Well -maru is pretty exclusively a male name suffix unless the author is trying to make a point of something, that was to be expected.
I haven't seen the raw though, does Holdem refer to Shuten as "kare" or "ano otoko" or something?

But if they're undercover and people just assume it's a dude (wishful thinking on my part, admittedly, just really not looking forward to even more of a sausage fest) then we might be surprised. What better cover, after all, than to have dual identities of that nature? Being able to go about one's business in the guise of an unassuming female when not 'on duty' and have no one the wiser since they're looking for a male...would make for a good twist even if we predict it this far ahead. But we've already seen the impressive feats by Wano's women so why not the one who surpasses them all be our Shutenmaru?

[Kurloz]

But if they're undercover and people just assume it's a dude (wishful thinking on my part, admittedly, just really not looking forward to even more of a sausage fest) then we might be surprised. What better cover, after all, than to have dual identities of that nature? Being able to go about one's business in the guise of an unassuming female when not 'on duty' and have no one the wiser since they're looking for a male...would make for a good twist even if we predict it this far ahead. But we've already seen the impressive feats by Wano's women so why not the one who surpasses them all be our Shutenmaru?

Not related to Shuten, but speaking of crossdressing it still seems like a popular theory on Japanese discussion sites that Kiku is a man. Though I'm not fluent enough to tell through text whether they're serious or meme'ing.

[choperman]

Who's viable and who isn't is subjective, but Wano's set to be a major turning point in the story, so I thought it better to have a fresh thread to reflect that.

Cool cool

Am I the only one who thinks Luffy won't like Shutenmaru even though they are on the same side because they are bandits and he hates all bandits (with the exception of Dadan and her crew)

--- Update From New Post Merge ---

This is really getting into conspiracy theory territory, but as long as we're on the topic, in the raws Oda spells Shuten as 酒天, which seems to be a less used variant spelling of the legendary Shuten. This name has the kanji for sake and ten/the heavens (天), and the sake jug we see Kaidou drinking from also has the kanji 天 on it. Maybe Shutenmaru has the most important role of all, Kaidou's booze provider.

Also IIRC Shuten-doji is Orochi's offspring in some legends.

I'm sooooo confused

So let me get this straight... he's a key figure in the rebellion against the shogun.... but he's actually the Shogun's son.... and he makes sake for Kaidou?

[kevo_koma]

Actually Usopp, Robin, and Sweet Pea (A Kuja pirate) have all worn the hat.

I remember Sweet Pea but I don't remember Robin or Ussop wearing the hat at any moment. Especially Ussop.

[Blissed]

I remember Sweet Pea but I don't remember Robin or Ussop wearing the hat at any moment. Especially Ussop.

Robin when she first met Luffy and the crew. Used her powers to playfully swipe it from Luffy.

As for Usopp, he wore it during the Foxy arc, when Afro Luffy fought Foxy.

[K. Kira XXIII]

http://i.imgur.com/mSSXCkZ.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/EjMpfUd.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rmMmXWU.jpg

This cover says nothing about either characters joining or not. It is merely portraying the circumstances. Pudding being in the background is appropriate as the cake plot, although important was mostly secondary to the chase. We barely saw the cooking process, etc. On the other hand, Carrot's transformstion was a big event, and it being a transformation, it is correct to showcase her twice. The chase being a more prominent plot, makes the difference between which one is more highlighted.

The cover argument has been mostly compared to the cover where Jimbe is with the crew. The major difference is that no one else beside Jimbe and the entire Straw Hat crew were there. Which makes it stand out more, even if you want to call that a product of circumstance. Not to mention that the FI arc finished on a note where Jimbe was invited to the crew. That was later followed up with Jimbe's sake cup scene, his words to his crew members and Luffy declaring that he is Jimbe's captain now.

WCI ended and Carrot was not asked to join. So is the covwr an indication ofbher joining or just saying that Carrot was going to do something. I go for the latter.