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Thread: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)

  1. #841

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sugeeking View Post
    Your depiction of Nami is that she is unique because she has orange hair, tattoos and accessories. You don't need to look much further back to find people like Perospero and Tamago, both sidekicks of a main villain, who are unique not just in colour scheme and accessories but also in their entire body and face structure. And this is just an example.
    AGAIN. Characters can look unique. Oda is great at that.

    Where are the LITTLE details that hint at more.

    Prospero for instance, now has a candy arm. If he first appeared in the story with that candy arm, that indicates that at some point he lost that arm to something. Backstory! He now has more detail, thought and backstory than he once did, he is more visuaully interesting.

    The strawhats have gathered scars and equipment along the way to distinguish them even more as time goes on, but they start with thought in them. Chopper has a metal plate on his horn where it was broken. We got context for the hat and blue nose later, which could have just been design elements, but the broken horn was a very clear indicator Oda already knew what his flashback was going to be and had thought about it in advance.

    That he was a talking reindeer at a point in theseries where there was nothing like him, that could transform, was an obvious shoo in for joining, but it was the little details that showcased the extra thought and iteration and insight from Oda.

    Even things like Smoker getting a scar over the timeskip are significant, because even if we never find out HOW he got that scar, we know immediately that "he faced somebody in the new world strong enough to hurt a badass logia like him, so the new world really is harsh and Smoker has been in tough fights since we last saw him."

    As for Arlong compared to the others: Chew, Kuroobi and Hatchan's have their own aesthetic as well. They also have different face and body structures, different hairstyles, different fishman traits (loving so much how you put this emphasis on species-specific fishman traits but hey Carrot having species-specific mink traits is so generic), different clothing, different colour schemes. Even something as little as where their tattoo is placed makes a difference. Obviously not counting powers and personality traits here since that's another discussion. But on visuals alone, you could recognize any of these in a glimpse and none stands out as more unique or hardworked than the others. Arlong being the leader and having the most dangerous and imposing appearance is definitely something that makes him stand out. But that goes along with his personality and role in the series and is, as said, a matter of a different debate.
    Yes. That is exactly my point. I'm not sure where the confusion is.

    Secondary characters can look unique. Main characters stand out *even more*.

    You've said twice now that you agree Arlong stands out more than his lieutenants do. And they stand out more than the background characters.

    You are plainly stating the exact concept I'm talking about, so I'm not sure where the disconnect is.

    loving so much how you put this emphasis on species-specific fishman traits but hey Carrot having species-specific mink traits is so generic
    1- Oda tends to implement the fish traits in much stranger ways and does more of a blend with human traits. Its more of a mix. While the zou residents just have animal heads with human eyes, typical anthropomorphics.

    2- I already dismissed the less creative ones from the concept drawing as lazy designs he didn't spend any time on.
    Quote Originally Posted by me
    said "Those are guys were Oda just drew a humanized version of a kind of fish, got it in one go, and moved out without much change or modification or any further thought. Some of those made it to the story, some didn't, and you can see Chew before he was further refined. (There's also early sketches of Hachi where he was a girl.) "
    The lazy characters that just look exactly like their animal don't get credit, no.
    Last edited by Robby; October 21st, 2018 at 07:48 AM.

  2. #842

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)

    I think my point didn't quite get across. Arlong stands out more because the narrative makes him stand out more. That is why you think he looks more unique and distinctive than the rest, because his presence in the narrative adds to your perception.

    The point of Arlong is that the only visual key that helps to identify him as a main character is how badass evil he looks. This is literally the only thing. You put him at the exact same level as Hatchan, Kuroobi and Chew in a picture and they are equally unique and distinguishable.

    You are trying hard to justify whether a character is supposed to be a main or a sidekick based on number of differentiable traits alone. That is absurd. If Arlong gives vibes of main villain is because the combination of traits make him look particularly imposing and cruel. Hatchan's design is unique as well but he comes across as weird and goofy-looking. Neither of these is more unique-looking than the other.

    By the way, sorry for the inconvenience of not quoting you, but for some reason I can't access the site with my computer and quoting in the phone is a bit of a mess. Something with the navigator maybe.
    Last edited by Sugeeking; October 21st, 2018 at 08:15 AM.

  3. #843

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)

    Quote Originally Posted by desa View Post
    I meant if the Nox find a stone that leads to the megastones they can send the rubbing to Robin. So them not being able to read it is not a problem.

    They are not supposed to find the megastone. They would just be there to give the hint that leads to it.


    You don't believe that no one knows the location since you mention the Roger pirates possibly know it. It's just a matter of what can lead to this person or wathever mean Roger used.


    I mean the Roger pirates aren't dead and they didn't invent the megastone they actually searched for it. They can simply have a rumor about someone or have the right rubbing to lead to the megastone.



    How to find the location of those stone have never been shown to be something we should care for. Getting them is important that's what the strawhats will take care of. The hint doesn't matter and that's what the side character would be taking care of.




    Well I don't consider luck to be wonderful writing. I was not a fan of the way they randomly learned of the stones in zou and found a secret one for example. And if it's not luck it's either a person, a rumor or information that leads them to it.



    I wasn't sure who you were targetting with that message.

    She could do that for sure.

    But the discussion isn't how does she find a megastone but what does she do once the time to separate from the minks come. Some say strawhats, some say Nox pirates, some says who cares she's just not joining, some say who knows...

    But I don't anyone is trying to find the way Carrot is going to find a stone. It's not the Nox pirate need to exist and will find a clue because finding a stone is Carrot's life puporse. It's she's probably joining the Nox pirate and finding clues to the stones will serve as her pretense to let the chracter explore the world.
    Wow, when did it become “Carrot’s life purpose to find the poneglyphs”. Stop that. You’re making things up. All this shit about poneglyphs is stuff people added onto what Pedro said. And now you’re adding on “It’s her entire life purpose” C’mon. I’m willing to argue out some extrapolations but this is you literally rewriting the character now.


    And also it wasn’t “just luck” that the Strawhats found the Zou poneglyph. That entire situation was created by everything that happened since Punk Hazard. All the things the Strawhats did were important for that specific revelation and the moment you remove even one thing the entire scenario vanishes... That’s not “just luck”... That’s what they call a story being told. This is the end game of One Piece and a story has to be told to reach there... Even the location of the other two poneglyphs wouldn’t be known to the Strawhats if they did anything differently all the way from Punk Hazard. All that was pure build up to this moment when they have two road poneglyphs and they are engaged in a battle for the third one.... ALL this story is required just for the Strawhats to find out that Kaidou has a road poneglyph... Not even to actually find it’s physical location, since Kaidou could have it on any country in his territory... All we know is that he has it... All that story was for just that Information...

    And YOU are suggesting that vital information for the VERY last poneglyph that will be ending the series, will be found Off screen? Are you comparing these situations properly? The fight with Ceaser, the fight with Doflamingo, the fight with Jack, the fight with Big Mom, the fight with Kaidou, all this is to find the locations of the poneglyphs... And the last poneglyph will be found by a side character OFF SCREEN???

    I even went as far as to cater for your extrapolation that Somehow Pedro’s words translate to find a poneglyph and I give you the most obvious solution of Carrot finding the poneglyph IN THE MAIN STORY in this current arc where she clearly exists, and for some reason this is a WORSE idea than finding the LAST PONEGLYPH OFF SCREEN???

    Okay, I’m getting riled up again... Sorry man, but you have FAILED to convince me that you have a point here. You started by rewriting the character, then comparing years of story to “off screen dumb luck” and then I even tried to accommodate your reaching with a clearly BETTER idea and you still insist on your “point”... If this is the extent of your argument, then I’m thoroughly UNCONVINCED so I guess we’ll just leave it there.

  4. #844

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)

    I thought all this "character design" stuff was settled?

    Spoiler:

    Me:

    Comparing Carrot to male members of the crew is still dumb. Compare her to the females and you'll see her design is just a plain as the other two. A unique nose, orange hair, and a tattoo are collectively the only things that make them unique.

    Robby:

    Robin has unique eyes and nose, and upon her introduction a unique haircut that wasn't really seen again until just now post timeskip, on top of a visually unique devil fruit, a mysterious introduction and an immediate bonding with the crew. Post timeskip Oda has made an effort to consistently give her shades to add another feature to her mix.

    Nami has a unique hair color that no one else in the series possesses, was the first major female in the series which was significant at the time, a tatoo, a permanent bracelet on her wrist and another bracelet with an orb on it, carries a magic weather making staff and now has a cloud she can fly around on.

    You can't use "the other strawhats aren't that distinct, so its okay that Carrot isn't distinct" as an argument.
    Me:

    How are Robin's eyes unique when Robin face is a thing? You've never looked at Hancock or Viola and thought about Robin? Also, are you talking about her non-cannon blue eyes? Also, we're strictly talking about appearances, so DF talk is irrelevant. Just on it's face (pun intended), only Robin's nose is unique. Everything else has been swapped in and out on other characters.

    I'm talking about physical appearance. Not anything that someone carries or wears. Just from a physical standpoint, she has orange hair and a tattoo. That's it. Plus, Nami-face is about as common as a new nakama candidate being mentioned in this thread. Again, from a purely physical design, the women in the crew are plain in comparison to any of the males. With that being the case, Carrot would be uniquely distinct from a physical standpoint among both of them.

    And you shouldn't compare the males in the crew to the females, nor should you include wearable items or DFs. You do that, and you have to start saying that Carrot's fighting style, eye color, gauntlets, and a whole bunch of other stuff make her unique, again, amongst the women.

    Robby:

    Those characters came AFTER Robin. At the time she was introduced she was unique and an anomaly.

    Oda's also gotten lazier about making her distinct over the years, and her timeskip haircut doesn't help matters, but at the time her eyes, nose and haircut were one of a kind. Plus the entire way she was introduced, style of dress, power and general enigma.

    Nami has NEVER taken off her bracelet since Nojiko gave it to her, not even in baths, and only switched out her compass when it got an upgrade in the new world. It is a permanent part of her design. And the other elements are things Oda has added over the years to make them stand out a little bit more that he consistently includes on them no matter what their outfit or hairstyle is now, like Luffy's hat, Zoro's earings, or Usopp's goggles..

    The thing is, they were FIRST. That goes a long way. They were also introduced 21 and 18 years ago, when the series was younger and Oda hadn't refined his style or designs so much. Of course there's repeat after 20 years, hundreds of characters and thousands of drawings later, but they were FIRST. And they have the extra details now.
    Me:

    Yes, they came after her, but look at the other SHs and ask yourself how many other characters (save joke characters like Duval or the fake SHs) have had other characters take on some of their physical features. The point I was making was that the females in the crew are not that unique from an anatomical standpoint and they all definitely lack the flair present in the male characters from a design standpoint. That being said, Carrot lacking flair shouldn't be that surprising and she definitely shouldn't be compared to any males for the same reason Nami and Robin shouldn't.

    Point taken, but even factoring in orange hair, tattoo, and bracelet, compare that to any of the males and count how many more unique physical traits they have than her. Now do the same with Robin. That's why I say the simple female designs Oda has should only be compared against each other.

    First sure, but we haven't seen any other bunny women up til this point and it's doubtful we see any going forward. That would still make her rather plainish Robin/Nami design unique.

    Please STOP comparing Carrot to male characters in the crew and start comparing her to the females. Anything else is just a waste of time.

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