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Thread: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)

  1. #81

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)

    Multiple name drops for Shutenmaru. Definitely going to be a BIG key player this arc. I just wonder if He's an actual "HE".
    Super Happy for a new thread. Congrats for the promotion Shift!

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurloz View Post
    Well -maru is pretty exclusively a male name suffix unless the author is trying to make a point of something, that was to be expected.
    I haven't seen the raw though, does Holdem refer to Shuten as "kare" or "ano otoko" or something?
    Care to elaborate on Kare and ano otoko?
    Here’s how Naruto should end: Last panel is Naruto standing proudly over Konohagakure. Slowly zoom out to reveal Luffy staring into a snowglobe with a miniature Konoha inside it. Usopp asks him what he’s doing. Luffy replies “Thinkin’ bout ninjas! Ninjas are cool!” and then chucks it off the ship

  2. #82

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmamentHero View Post
    Care to elaborate on Kare and ano otoko?
    Those are just male pronouns as opposed to the gender neutral ones used a lot in Japanese. Again the -maru means there's a 99.9% chance it's a guy but I was just curious.
    Zoro runs towards the enemy
    Does a pose behind him
    Says name of attack
    Blood spray from enemy
    Says one liner

  3. #83
    21st Century Schizoid Man S.C. Amigo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurloz View Post
    Not related to Shuten, but speaking of crossdressing it still seems like a popular theory on Japanese discussion sites that Kiku is a man. Though I'm not fluent enough to tell through text whether they're serious or meme'ing.
    The pronunciation she uses to address herself is "Sessha", which was used only by Samurai, and since like 99% of Samurai were men, I guess that's where the meme came from.

  4. #84

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)

    Quote Originally Posted by S.C. Amigo View Post
    The pronunciation she uses to address herself is "Sessha", which was used only by Samurai, and since like 99% of Samurai were men, I guess that's where the meme came from.
    I know, I think it's the combination of that and her weird height.
    Zoro runs towards the enemy
    Does a pose behind him
    Says name of attack
    Blood spray from enemy
    Says one liner

  5. #85

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)

    Quote Originally Posted by K. Kira XXIII View Post
    And therefore being part of the fleet will also help upon bringing that dawn. That is also undeniable.
    Huh... and? My argument was never that Carrot could not have another outcome for her character arc, as I'm saying since my first post in this thread. My argument is that becoming a Strawhats fits (just like other options, and better than many), and I told you before because you said that it would be pointless for her to get onboard the Sunny because she wouldn't have enough adventures. However, as you recognized later, becoming a Strawhat is to embark into the biggest adventure there is.

    As much as that is true, the use of gags in a narrative also have an intention. What you describe is how to make the gag work properly, but the intention of it is a different matter.

    And at the end of the day, it is Luffy's perception of a character that matters, not our complex analysis of the spectrum of animal type characters, nor our ideas of why a character should travel with them. Carrot going on adventures can be accomplished independently as well.

    It is not as extreme as that, but you can tell by the context or tone and see what is the author's stand on certain issues. For example, Oda's views on women or his view in friendships.
    What matters is whether Oda created Carrot to become a Strawhat or not, which neither you or I know at the moment...

    Luffy's first impression of the mink-race is not Oda whispering in our ears that no mink will join, because that comment was in-character with Luffy's perception. Obviously Luffy needs to like the character for the person to join (his percepetion of character is important in-universe), but Luffy never said he was not interested in the minks either, and his heart is usually open to any weird people (like the animal zombies in Thriller Bark) and friends (like Vivi and Law). Hell, Luffy would probably be happy to welcome Carrot as his crewmate... but it's Oda who decides if she will join or not based on his criteria that we can never be sure to understand completely (and that's why we talk about narrative, character arc, design and stuff).

    When it comes to what the author speaks through its work, you can't compare one random comment by Luffy about minks with something so well established throughout many arcs as Oda's views on women.
    Last edited by theackwardstation; September 14th, 2018 at 10:23 PM.

  6. #86

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)

    Quote Originally Posted by K. Kira XXIII View Post
    This cover says nothing about either characters joining or not.
    Not to mention there are like 10 different covers where Law is given equal prominence with strawhats, or even more focus than anyone but Luffy, and he isn't joining.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    Luffy's first impression of the mink-race is not Oda whispering in our ears that no mink will join, because that comment was in-character with Luffy's perception.
    Oda is the author. He put the words in Luffy's mouth. Luffy didn't magically make that statement on his own without Oda.

    Oda could have had Luffy say anything about the minks at all, and have it still be in character. He could have said "It's a whole island of weird people!" Or "This is what lives on an elephant?" or "Wow, I want to eat all of them!" or "These guys look strong!" But no, his very first impression, given by the author, was "these are like Chopper." That's a statement Oda came up with, and that Oda put into Luffy's mouth, very nearly first thing. Not played as a gag, or a back and forth with Chopper, but just as a simple declarative statement. That is how Oda sees them, and that's how Luffy sees them.

    Luffy had a stronger reaction to potential ninja, and a stronger reaction to Samurai Girl being cool just a couple chapters ago.

  7. #87

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Oda is the author. He put the words in Luffy's mouth. Luffy didn't magically make that statement on his own without Oda.

    Oda could have had Luffy say anything about the minks at all, and have it still be in character. He could have said "It's a whole island of weird people!" Or "This is what lives on an elephant?" or "Wow, I want to eat all of them!" or "These guys look strong!" But no, his very first impression, given by the author, was "these are like Chopper." That's a statement Oda came up with, and that Oda put into Luffy's mouth, very nearly first thing. Not played as a gag, or a back and forth with Chopper, but just as a simple declarative statement. That is how Oda sees them, and that's how Luffy sees them.

    Luffy had a stronger reaction to potential ninja, and a stronger reaction to Samurai Girl being cool just a couple chapters ago.
    Oda is the author and he puts the words in Luffy's mouth for many different purposes, including to write a coherent character that acts consistently... and I explained some pages ago why it is in-character for Luffy to make such a comment.

    Don't pretend that things are as simple as "luffy says, Oda thinks the same", please.

  8. #88
    Don't know what to say... Monquito's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)

    well, it wasn't the first time either, I vaguely remember back at Shabaody Luffy saw Bepo and thought to himself or said something like, 'oh yeah, we have one of those in our crew as well'.








  9. #89

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)

    Quote Originally Posted by Monquito View Post
    well, it wasn't the first time either, I vaguely remember back at Shabaody Luffy saw Bepo and thought to himself or said something like, 'oh yeah, we have one of those in our crew as well'.
    Hey, it's not nice to make up stuff. Luffy never said that. He was just intrigued by Bepo ("huh? the bear too?" after Robin told him that Law was a pirate).

  10. #90

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post


    Oda is the author. He put the words in Luffy's mouth. Luffy didn't magically make that statement on his own without Oda.

    Oda could have had Luffy say anything about the minks at all, and have it still be in character. He could have said "It's a whole island of weird people!" Or "This is what lives on an elephant?" or "Wow, I want to eat all of them!" or "These guys look strong!" But no, his very first impression, given by the author, was "these are like Chopper." That's a statement Oda came up with, and that Oda put into Luffy's mouth, very nearly first thing. Not played as a gag, or a back and forth with Chopper, but just as a simple declarative statement. That is how Oda sees them, and that's how Luffy sees them.

    Luffy had a stronger reaction to potential ninja, and a stronger reaction to Samurai Girl being cool just a couple chapters ago.
    I have to disagree with you here. If you've ever written a story, you know that characters tend to take on a life of their own. Luffy was in tune with his character when he said that and I don't think it was Oda being subtle about it.

    The only other frame of reference Luffy has for sentient talking animals is chopper. Every other animal he's come across have either been humans who have eaten DF or people's shadows/parts stuck in animal bodies.

    So yeah, it would make sense to equate the minks with chopper.
    HOW COME LUFFY NEVER KILLS AN ENEMY?
    ODA:ITS BECAUSE IN THAT ERA EVERYONE USES THEIR LIVES TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS. FOR AN ENEMY WHEN THEIR DREAM HAS BEEN SHATTERED,IT IS AS PAINFUL AS DEATH,I BELIEVE FOR A PIRATE NOT TO KILL AN ENEMY , IT'S GIVING THEM A SECOND CHANCE TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS.

  11. #91

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    Oda is the author and he puts the words in Luffy's mouth for many different purposes, including to write a coherent character that acts consistently... and I explained some pages ago why it is in-character for Luffy to make such a comment.

    Don't pretend that things are as simple as "luffy says, Oda thinks the same", please.
    So why did Oda choose THAT specific line, THAT comparison? I already gave half a dozen examples of things Luffy could have said that were *also* in character without immediately blanketing the entire island as also-rans.

    It'd be one thing if Luffy said they were all like Chopper a ways in, or if he made the comparison and then Chopper explained the differences, but he didn't. He lumped them all together, and let it sit with no further elaboration. As far as Luffy, and Oda who thought that line was an appropriate first impression, are concerned, they are all "like Chopper." Even their unique transformaton isn't unique, because Chopper can already do that 7 different ways. (ANd notably, Luffy wasn't around to see said transformation, and didn't really comment when Pekoms was doing it.)

    If we met an island of cyborgs or an island of skeletons, it'd be the same reaction and rightly so, and none of those similar characters would be under any serious consideration for crew, even if some of them were girls.

    And we HAVE been on an island of Fishmen, and Luffy never said anything like "it's an island of Hachis" or "It's an island of Arlongs" or "It's an island of Jimbe's". Neither Luffy, or Oda, ever felt the need to break all fishmen down into a blanket simple comparison.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by kevo_koma View Post
    I have to disagree with you here. If you've ever written a story, you know that characters tend to take on a life of their own. Luffy was in tune with his character when he said that and I don't think it was Oda being subtle about it.
    I've written many stories and have been published many times. Yeah, characters write their own dialogue sometimes. It still comes from within the author.

    And while the author will let the character run rampant sometimes and do what they want, they also have to control the worldbuilding and how the audience experiences things for the first time.

    The only other frame of reference Luffy has for sentient talking animals is chopper. Every other animal he's come across have either been humans who have eaten DF or people's shadows/parts stuck in animal bodies.
    Luffy had met Bepo by that point, an actual Mink, as wall as Masira, and Shoujo who were animal like, and Gaimon's island of half animals, and long animals. Plus a whole bunch of zoans like CP9, plus characters like Pappug and an entire island of Fishmen (who he didn't feel the need to compare all of to Arlong.) and all the surgery monsters of Thriller Bark like Absalom and Punk Hazard like Monet and Brownbeard.

    Chopper was NOT his only experience with weird animals, or animal people at that point.
    Last edited by Robby; September 15th, 2018 at 10:09 AM.

  12. #92

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post



    I've written many stories and have been published many times. Yeah, characters write their own dialogue sometimes. It still comes from within the author.



    Luffy had met Bepo by that point, an actual Mink, as wall as Masira, and Shoujo who were animal like. Plus characters like Pappug and an entire island of Fishmen (who he didn't feel the need to compare all of to Arlong.) and all the surgery monsters of Thriller Bark like Absalom and Punk Hazard like Monet and Brownbeard. He'd seen lots of animal people other than Chopper, including an actual Mink.

    Chopper was NOT his only experience.
    First of all, How do I not know you've written any stories man. Do you mind sending me some links so I can check them out. I would love to read them.

    I completely forgot about Bepo(But does Luffy know he's a mink). Pappug and the Fishmen don't really count because they were a well-established race from the beginning(plus they're acquatic). The rest of the examples were artificial and not natural.

    Chopper, before the minks, was the only legit sentient animal that Luffy (and by extension the audience) had met because he was once an animal and then he could act like a human. The other ones(except the fishmen) were all humans who could become animals.

    So in a way it was Oda's way of saying that the Minks were animals that could act like humans. LIKE Chopper. And not humans becoming animals.
    HOW COME LUFFY NEVER KILLS AN ENEMY?
    ODA:ITS BECAUSE IN THAT ERA EVERYONE USES THEIR LIVES TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS. FOR AN ENEMY WHEN THEIR DREAM HAS BEEN SHATTERED,IT IS AS PAINFUL AS DEATH,I BELIEVE FOR A PIRATE NOT TO KILL AN ENEMY , IT'S GIVING THEM A SECOND CHANCE TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS.

  13. #93

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)

    Quote Originally Posted by kevo_koma View Post
    First of all, How do I not know you've written any stories man. Do you mind sending me some links so I can check them out. I would love to read them.
    I wrote Ninja High School for about 10 years and a bunch of stuff for Antarctic Press, like Pirates versus Ninjas and the Zombie Recognition Guide, and some how to draw related books, and did editorial on more things than I can even remember.

    I completely forgot about Bepo(But does Luffy know he's a mink).
    Even if he doesn't know he's a mink specifically, hes met and talked to him, presumably at some length after the war.

    Pappug and the Fishmen don't really count because they were a well-established race from the beginning(plus they're acquatic).
    Pappug is unique. He is the ONLY talking starfish that we know of in the world, with no real explanation for how that happened beyond i didn't know I wasn't supposed to talk". He is actually more unique than any of the devil fruit characters.

    And again, Fishmen were established early, but Luffy never felt the need to compare them all to the first fishman he ever met.

    And again, The rest of the examples were artificial and not natural.
    Masira and SHoujo were born as gorilla people. And the rest, it doesn't matter that they were artificial or zoans, they were still Luffy being exposed to animal people other than chopper. He could have looked at the island of carnivore animal people including a leopard guy and gone "It's a whole island of Lucchis!" but he didn't.

    So in a way it was Oda's way of saying that the Minks were animals that could act like humans. LIKE Chopper. And not humans becoming animals.
    Exactly. And that's a very reductive shorthand. Its the author, AND main character, going "you've seen this before, I don't have to explain this now ordinary thing you've already seen that I made special 18 years ago."

    Once he's set the precedent that everyone there is like someone already in the crew, he would have to really push someone out to make them different.

    Same for an island of cyborgs or skeletons or chefs or shapshooters or navigators, or an island of swordsmen as we are on now. We've seen an island of archeologists and Oda handily pushed Robin front there when she was 8.
    Last edited by Robby; September 15th, 2018 at 10:29 AM.

  14. #94

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)

    I will wait for Shutenmaru or my beloved Kunoichi

  15. #95

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    So why did Oda choose THAT specific line, THAT comparison? I already gave half a dozen examples of things Luffy could have said that were *also* in character without immediately blanketing the entire island as also-rans.

    It'd be one thing if Luffy said they were all like Chopper a ways in, or if he made the comparison and then Chopper explained the differences, but he didn't. He lumped them all together, and let it sit with no further elaboration. As far as Luffy, and Oda who thought that line was an appropriate first impression, are concerned, they are all "like Chopper." Even their unique transformaton isn't unique, because Chopper can already do that 7 different ways. (ANd notably, Luffy wasn't around to see said transformation, and didn't really comment when Pekoms was doing it.)

    If we met an island of cyborgs or an island of skeletons, it'd be the same reaction and rightly so, and none of those similar characters would be under any serious consideration for crew, even if some of them were girls.

    And we HAVE been on an island of Fishmen, and Luffy never said anything like "it's an island of Hachis" or "It's an island of Arlongs" or "It's an island of Jimbe's". Neither Luffy, or Oda, ever felt the need to break all fishmen down into a blanket simple comparison.
    The funny thing is that Luffy's actual statement is showing his intrigue, not his lack of interest: "this island is filled with MISTERY PEOPLE, it's like there's a bunch of Choppers". And throughout that chapter (and Zou, actually) Oda was actually hyping up the minks, like when Zoro was confused about electro, when Franky was impressed with Carrot's jump power and when Law's crew was amazed by the mink's strenght.

    The fact that all you can take out of that chapter is Luffy's comparison with Chopper as if Oda (or Luffy) was unimpressed with their concept just shows your bias, actually.

    Just to show how dumb it is to put words in the author's mouth because a character made a comment (as if he's whispering what you want to believe in), there is an equally forced argument pro-Carrot. In chapter 858, Carrot was shown admiring the thought of giants actually existing... OMG, Oda is the author and he put those thoughts on Carrot! Why is that? The readers know that giants exist for the longest time, so there's no need for a character to be daydreaming about it unless there is a deeper meaning to it, riiiight? Is it because Carrot is going to Elbaf too?

    Or maybe she's just acting in character. There's nothing really to take out of it.

  16. #96
    Button Pusher Shift's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)

    Quote Originally Posted by K. Kira XXIII View Post
    This cover says nothing about either characters joining or not. It is merely portraying the circumstances. Pudding being in the background is appropriate as the cake plot, although important was mostly secondary to the chase. We barely saw the cooking process, etc. On the other hand, Carrot's transformstion was a big event, and it being a transformation, it is correct to showcase her twice. The chase being a more prominent plot, makes the difference between which one is more highlighted.

    The cover argument has been mostly compared to the cover where Jimbe is with the crew. The major difference is that no one else beside Jimbe and the entire Straw Hat crew were there. Which makes it stand out more, even if you want to call that a product of circumstance. Not to mention that the FI arc finished on a note where Jimbe was invited to the crew. That was later followed up with Jimbe's sake cup scene, his words to his crew members and Luffy declaring that he is Jimbe's captain now.

    WCI ended and Carrot was not asked to join. So is the covwr an indication ofbher joining or just saying that Carrot was going to do something. I go for the latter.
    I decided to do a bit of research on the subject. And now, here is every volume cover that features Luffy together with at least one other crewmate and only one other character on the same plain of existence, IE not just in the foreground or background.
    *Vol. 78 is the exception, as I’ll explain below.

    1: L/Z with Nami
    3: L/Z
    6: L/Z/N/U
    9: L/Z/N/U/S
    11: L/Z/N/U/S
    12: L/Z/N/U/S
    17: L/Z/Ch with Wapol and his men in the BG, the same volume Chopper joined
    23: L/Z/N/U/S/Ch in the BG with Vivi, the same volume she stayed behind
    26: L/Z/N/U/S/Ch/R
    28: L/Z/Ch/R in the BG, with Wyper and his warriors on a separate plain in the foreground
    32 L/Z/N/U/S/Ch/R
    39: L/Z with Franky and with Robin and other characters in the BG
    43: L/Z/N/U/S/Ch with Franky
    46: L/N/Ch with Brook and with the zombie horde in the BG
    50: L/Z/N with Brook, the same volume he joined
    52: L/Z/N/U/S/Ch/R/F/B with Rayleigh, the same volume everyone was separated
    61: L/Z/N/U/S/Ch/R/F/B
    64: L/Z/N/U/S/Ch/R/F/B with Jinbe
    71: L/Z/S/F with Kin’emon and with multiple characters in the BG
    78: L/Z/U/R/F with seemingly only Law, yet also with the Tontattas in the same plain
    81: L/N/S/Ch/B with Momo and with multiple Minks in the BG
    88: L/N/S/Ch/B/J with Carrot in the same plain and with Sulong Carrot, Pudding, Bege and Chiffon in the BG

    Out of that list, the only singular not-yet-SHs who have been portrayed together with Luffy and other crewmates are Nami, Vivi, Franky, Brook, Jinbe, Rayleigh, Kin’emon, Momo and Carrot.

    Of those, Nami, Franky and Brook have joined, Jinbe has pledged to, and Vivi is a crewmate in spirit. Meanwhile, Rayleigh is now one of the closest people to Luffy as his mentor, and Momo and Kin’emon remain vital to the current arc. Whether Carrot is joining or not, she has clearly been placed among the upper echelons of such important characters by Oda himself. Pudding simply can’t compare.



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  17. #97
    Don't know what to say... Monquito's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)

    didnt even noticed Pekoms did Sulong back then, jesus how boring WCI had to be.
    thats just further proof that the Sulong will be relevant for Wano as the Minks are getting build up to be natural fighters.

    I mean even if fake, the Smiles should? be able to do any kind of transformation, like normal zoans can, just in bizarre ways, so at a certain moment in the war the minks will be like, oh look, thr moon, we can transform too.








  18. #98

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)

    Pekoms didn't get to transform into Sulong because the BMP stopped him in the middle of the transformation.

  19. #99
    21st Century Schizoid Man S.C. Amigo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)

    If Shutenmaru is our next big candidate, I hope he has a unique style and isn't just another bog-standard swordsman. Like he has a Kusarigama, or something.

  20. #100

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)

    Quote Originally Posted by S.C. Amigo View Post
    If Shutenmaru is our next big candidate, I hope he has a unique style and isn't just another bog-standard swordsman. Like he has a Kusarigama, or something.
    He might/should have an oni club.


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