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Thread: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

  1. #61
    Stowaway w/ 17k posts Kishido's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaido King of the Beasts View Post
    It's typical katakana - Suterusu Burakku
    Found it myself and deleted the post still thank you very much

  2. #62
    Ou l‘optimisme Candide's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post

    But those are all left overs. He hasn't been a real driving force for a while now. He's shown making some moves, but it just doesn't have the weight it did during times like Alabasta, Skypiea or Enies Lobby. Limiting his fighting time certainly doesn't help. And the women thing, ugh. Not talking about not fighting them.

    Zoro is at least a lot less conflicting character. He achieved some character growth when he begged Mihawk to train him. He stepped over his pride by asking his enemy to train him. In contrast, Sanji's view on fighting women remains the same, even after his actions put both Nami and Robin in danger during EL.

    I'm saying all this as a Sanji fan.
    You have a point there, with Zoro being far less a conflict character. But his training with Mihawk somehow equals Sunkists training with the newkamas... Somewhere Oda said, that he wrote himself into Sunkist to some extent and this maybe the reason why Sunkist isn't all about powerups and brawling, but hast more human conflicts on his mind. It's just like the discussion whether he can use CoA or not, and why it isn't expolerd further... does it really matter? I didn't love Sunkist very much from the very beginning (except his resolution towards food, his loyalty to the crew, his funny skirmishes with Sauron and sometimes even his fondness of beautiful ladies), and for me FI was an all-time low. But after this he really took an aspiring way character-wise. And I see this Suit as exactly the reward for anything hehad to suffer since timeskip.

    All I want to say is, there IS some kind of plan behind Sunkists character. Some may not like the route he went, but you can see, that his character evolves more around his kindness and personal flaws than around prowess for the sake of fighting. He is a great fighter nevertheless and the gap between him and Sauron, Luffy and Jinbe is not that big at all... also I don't think the Suit will somehow close the gap, it's just a kick-off -- next step he will take by himself.

  3. #63

    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    LOL I hope even after Stealth black Sanji will have good showings from now on, he needs those. With Jimbe joining he will need to establish himself power-wise.

  4. #64

    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Huh. Wasn't expecting such a split about the suit.
    Putting the amnesia aside and how it's totally fun for me, here's my two cents about the suit and the discussion about Sanji.
    Not hitting a woman is part of his core values, heck it might as well be his core value besides being a good cook.
    The Straw hats are the straw hats because they never let whatever happens to them shake their morality and their code, this differs for each strawhat but you get my gist.
    Sanji's might be more extreme and controversial, but him hitting a woman even if his crew is in danger is akin to Zoro throwing his swordsman code (cutting someone in the back in a duel) or Luffy giving up on what he wants because it puts his crew in danger, but we know he never does that.
    It's pretty much the same thing, really.

    Now about the suit, it's pretty fun and makes for a good gimmick. I much prefer it to be used here instead of a serious deathmatch moment as a power boast we all see coming.
    Oda has been doing this intellectual spy thing with Sanji for a while now so the added invisibility and super speed can come in handy in tricky situations. It's probably showcased here to prevent it being a cop-out later on.
    Has Sanji been nerfed in terms of intellect and fighting prowess as compared to the first half? Likely.
    Then again, Zoro has been static for a long time already but because of the one shots, it's more acceptable because it's cool and shounenish.
    I feel like Zoro and Sanji is rather similar in the sense that Oda has been saving for them to go all out in Wano and any and everything else, he finds it pretty tricky to nerf their powers without coming off too blatant.
    He was able to do this with Zoro at the expense of Sanji and had to constantly find ways to make him not go all out when possible.
    Even during WCI, there were so many moments that he should have had a fight to his own or when it was a perfect opportunity for him to showcase his 2 years but we never did see that.
    Same thing: he can't unleash everything Sanji has until he does it in the same arc with Zoro.

    The skirmishes in which Sanji appeared weak/underwhelming were due to the same problem. It's the power scale nuisance shounen always has.
    To simplify: the Sanji vs Doffy short bout, a balance of not having Sanji appear too weak but at the same time make sure it is clear that Doffy has the upper hand was necessary. And I felt like with what he had(the panels and the limited time), Oda handled it well.

    It's not as if the suit is an entirely different form. In fact it's better to think of it as a less powerful "Gear" that is only as strong as the user's base powers.
    Sanji still has a lot going for him.
    The question of whether the power was "earned" with his hard work is debatable. In my opinion, despite him being part of the monster trio, there's not much of a reason to not rely on equipment/gadgets like other straw hats does(Nami and Usopp). Of course, one can argue that both of them actually use their tools in accordance with their expertises(weather+jack of all trades) but it's not like the suit has a drastically different power with what we know of Sanji in mind. (High perceptive skills, speed, so fast he's almost invisible). It's a neat complement.
    Last edited by zeltrax225; February 4th, 2019 at 12:07 PM.

  5. #65

    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    This policy of no beating women was never issue to me, because if it was then it would be silly.

  6. #66

    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by zeltrax225 View Post
    Huh. Wasn't expecting such a split about the suit.
    Putting the amnesia aside and how it's totally fun for me, here's my two cents about the suit and the discussion about Sanji.
    Not hitting a woman is part of his core values, heck it might as well be his core value besides being a good cook.
    The Straw hats are the straw hats because they never let whatever happens to them shake their morality and their code, this differs for each strawhat but you get my gist.
    Sanji's might be more extreme and controversial, but him hitting a woman even if his crew is in danger is akin to Zoro throwing his swordsman code (cutting someone in the back in a duel) or Luffy giving up on what he wants because it puts his crew in danger, but we know he never does that.
    It's pretty much the same thing, really.

    Now about the suit, it's pretty fun and makes for a good gimmick. I much prefer it to be used here instead of a serious deathmatch moment as a power boast we all see coming.
    Oda has been doing this intellectual spy thing with Sanji for a while now so the added invisibility and super speed can come in handy in tricky situations. It's probably showcased here to prevent it being a cop-out later on.
    Has Sanji been nerfed in terms of intellect and fighting prowess as compared to the first half? Likely.
    Then again, Zoro has been static for a long time already but because of the one shots, it's more acceptable because it's cool and shounenish.
    I feel like Zoro and Sanji is rather similar in the sense that Oda has been saving for them to go all out in Wano and any and everything else, he finds it pretty tricky to nerf their powers without coming off too blatant.
    He was able to do this with Zoro at the expense of Sanji and had to constantly find ways to make him not go all out when possible.
    Even during WCI, there were so many moments that he should have had a fight to his own or when it was a perfect opportunity for him to showcase his 2 years but we never did see that.
    Same thing: he can't unleash everything Sanji has until he does it in the same arc with Zoro.

    The skirmishes in which Sanji appeared weak/underwhelming were due to the same problem. It's the power scale nuisance shounen always has.
    To simplify: the Sanji vs Doffy short bout, a balance of not having Sanji appear too weak but at the same time make sure it is clear that Doffy has the upper hand was necessary. And I felt like with what he had(the panels and the limited time), Oda handled it well.

    It's not as if the suit is an entirely different form. In fact it's better to think of it as a less powerful "Gear" that is only as strong as the user's base powers.
    Sanji still has a lot going for him.
    The question of whether the power was "earned" with his hard work is debatable. In my opinion, despite him being part of the monster trio, there's not much of a reason to not rely on equipment/gadgets like other straw hats does(Nami and Usopp). Of course, one can argue that both of them actually use their tools in accordance with their expertises(weather+jack of all trades) but it's not like the suit has a drastically different power with what we know of Sanji in mind. (High perceptive skills, speed, so fast he's almost invisible). It's a neat complement.

    Very good, well written and thought through post.

  7. #67

    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    Me personlly i think alot of ya'll have exaggerated expectations of what observational ambition can resonably be expected to do. I think in time, when the limitations have been expanded upon in the story, that you'll find that it isn't an omniscient radar that detects anything at anytime no matter your focus level. That Robin can't detect stealthy ninjas while digging for clues isn't as much a slam on her skills as it is an exploitation of a logical flaw in the skill itself. That and y'know ninjas, sneaking up on people is what they do.
    Robin doesn't know haki yet so her being surprised by Ninja is ok to me. At least more than Luffy being surprised by minks in Zoo

  8. #68

    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by Kdom View Post
    Robin doesn't know haki yet so her being surprised by Ninja is ok to me. At least more than Luffy being surprised by minks in Zoo
    Man if Robin post time skip hasn't picked up some use of ambition that in itself is pretty hilarious. Fricking Helmeppo learned it in like two weeks lol. Let that sink in, Helmeppo is supposedly more capable than Neko Lowbun.

  9. #69

    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Big Mom being amnesiac could lead to both entertaining or very underwhelming scenarios. I hope she won't be an ally against Kaido, it would completely undermine the significance of the alliance's victory if a powerful pirate from the same generation of Kaido, like Big Mom, would interfere in a way to be crucial for the outcome. This victory should be achieved by the alliance that was formed at Zou, even if Luffy won't fight Kaido 1 on 1 that will still be a victory by the alliance the he formed, and thus a victory as a pirate against the pirate Kaido.

    Rather, speculating about what Oda has in store for Big Mom now, we know that the marines intercepted her talk with Kaido and we also know that they aren't too happy about two emperors meeting, especially emperors as hot blooded as them. Akainu was uncertain about sending marine forces at Wano since they don't know the extent of Wano's forces, but if they go there with an admiral (Kizaru, since the other two are at Marijoa) and other strong vice-admirals, and if once there they decide to target the Straw Hats specifically, then Big Mom's role in all of this could be just to stop the marines.

    Big Mom was always essentially a child, now that she lost her memories her new personality could vary depending on the people that she meets, and with someone as good natured as Chopper i don't think it's far fetched that she could become good natured as well. Even if the rest of her crew once reunited with her would be furious about supporting the Straw Hats they would never disobey her or abandon her in a fight against an army of powerful marines, thus we would have Big Mom pirates vs Marines in one side and the Pirate alliance vs Kaido and Wano's forces in the other, happening at the same time.

    If that will happen i would still think that a memory loss is a lackluster move by Oda, but surely much better that Big Mom helping against Kaido, and i would be really hyped if a double war of such scale should happen.

  10. #70
    Kick-Ass Finalis desa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by zeltrax225 View Post
    Huh. Wasn't expecting such a split about the suit.
    Putting the amnesia aside and how it's totally fun for me, here's my two cents about the suit and the discussion about Sanji.
    Not hitting a woman is part of his core values, heck it might as well be his core value besides being a good cook.
    The Straw hats are the straw hats because they never let whatever happens to them shake their morality and their code, this differs for each strawhat but you get my gist.
    Sanji's might be more extreme and controversial, but him hitting a woman even if his crew is in danger is akin to Zoro throwing his swordsman code (cutting someone in the back in a duel) or Luffy giving up on what he wants because it puts his crew in danger, but we know he never does that.
    It's pretty much the same thing, really.
    We saw Zoro give his chance to be the best swordsman in exchange for Luffy's life.
    We saw Luffy go after Bellamy for stealing treasure because he beat on his friend.
    Nami gladly gave up when it concerned Caimie.
    Chopper accepted being a monster to help Luffy.

    Usually the strawhats will give everything to save their friend if it saves their friend. I think Sanji is the only one that actually has something he would rather not do then save his friend.

    The question of whether the power was "earned" with his hard work is debatable. In my opinion, despite him being part of the monster trio, there's not much of a reason to not rely on equipment/gadgets like other straw hats does(Nami and Usopp). Of course, one can argue that both of them actually use their tools in accordance with their expertises(weather+jack of all trades) but it's not like the suit has a drastically different power with what we know of Sanji in mind. (High perceptive skills, speed, so fast he's almost invisible). It's a neat complement.



    I think in this particuar case it's more about where the suit comes from than what it does for him.



  11. #71

    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    I see Ussop upgrading the raid suit and putting an impact dial layer on his legs and Franky some kind of laser on his feet.

  12. #72
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by KageKageKing View Post
    This policy of no beating women was never issue to me, because if it was then it would be silly.
    The policy itself isn't as much of an issue to me as the origin of said policy. Zeff once said it. That's it.

    I'll allow the possibility of his mother somehow tying into that, since we're obviously missing parts of his backstory, but as it is now, it's plain dumb, ill conceived and unconvincing.

    That's another thing Oda might have made him overcome. Seeing how he sent him on an island where there are men identifying themselves as women and a dude who changes people's sex on a whim. It's almost like Oda entertained the idea of putting that misplaced chivalry to rest through some developments on the island, only to drop it somewhere along the way.

    What if we got a split personality Sanji, with a woman persona who jumps in when he has to face a fenemy, though.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    Man if Robin post time skip hasn't picked up some use of ambition that in itself is pretty hilarious. Fricking Helmeppo learned it in like two weeks lol. Let that sink in, Helmeppo is supposedly more capable than Neko Lowbun.
    She was a capable fighter to begin with. Would be silly if she hasn't picked up anything during her stay with Revolutionaries. All those people with fishman karate and haki hardening...

    Why can't she attack with multiple dragon claws, or one gigantic one!?
    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Trying to understand Bleach is like trying to drink a bottle of bleach.

    It makes no sense and you'll be dead before you're finished.

  13. #73

    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    She was a capable fighter to begin with. Would be silly if she hasn't picked up anything during her stay with Revolutionaries. All those people with fishman karate and haki hardening...

    Why can't she attack with multiple dragon claws, or one gigantic one!?
    Are you two salty that Sanji settles on Robin level with Page 1 as his personal Hakuba situation?
    "Often I think about my many comrades fallen by my side. I heard their curses against the war and its authors, the revolt against their murder. And I, as a survivor, believe that I am inspired by their will to struggle, for the idea of peace and human fraternity."
    Corp. Barthas, France, Feb. 1919

  14. #74

    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Sanji may not strike women but he doesn't just sit there and allow them to do what they want. I mean if some woman was trying to stab Nami Sanji would block and deflect very much the same way he did to Kalifa and Big Mom.

    And you can't bring up Zoro's self sacrifice to Kuma and conveniently leave out the fact that Sanji was totally willing to do the same.
    Folks who read One Piece... Just better people. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  15. #75
    Flagon Snaggin' Dragon Kaido King of the Beasts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    The way in which Sanji learned his chivalry was by no means minor. Zeff teaching him that hitting a woman is bad isn't a particularly special sort of motivation on its own, but it came right on the heels of Sanji's biological dad disowning him and not wanting to be associated with him ever again. Zeff gave Sanji those instructions out of love for him as a son, so is it any surprise that Sanji would want to do anything for someone who finally considers him family? It's similar to Ace at Marineford. Him attacking Akainu for degrading Whitebeard was really dumb, but it was perfectly in line with his established character of a broken boy who hated his biological father and so became greatly attached to those who became his real family. Oda clearly considers family loyalty to be a big deal and so it's tough for me to see situations where that is put to the test - there are the occasional moments of childish rebellion, like Sanji smoking cigarettes and Ace going to hunt Blackbeard, but any core principles that get instilled aren't gonna be broken.
    Last edited by Kaido King of the Beasts; February 4th, 2019 at 05:13 PM.



    Spoiler:

  16. #76

    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Oh sure, NOW Sanji is willing to stop caring about his principles in order to save random strangers, but back when it was Robin's life on the line he just couldn't fight to save his life.

    Speaking of Robin, wonder where here plotthread is going. All those ninja designs are fun. I especially like the completely covered up guy.

    And Big Mom? I have NO idea where Oda is going with this... though it does better pave the way for pudding and old witnesses to fill her in on how shes ACTUALLY been. So... we'll see. My guess is this'll be used as a way to have her fight Kaidou directly and whittle him down some. Had assumed that was going to wait until Elbaf but I guess not!
    I actually find this to be character development. Sanji's mental barrier that prevented him from defeating Kalifa left the crew with a dangerous opponent to deal with, with a weaker member of the Straw Hats left to deal with her. Sticking to his principles there was conveyed as a weakness, a flaw. He didn't _____________, and if he did, he would've defeated Kalifa.

    To find him doing what he should've done against Kalifa here is great.

    I'd also like to add I was one of the biggest dissenters against Sanji's raid suit here, but Oda did win me over with some smart self-aware dialogue. Not that that needs to happen for everyone, though it's been happening for a sizeable portion of the fanbase.

  17. #77
    Discovered Stowaway killerbee1000's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Didn't expect BM to get amnesia. It'll be interesting to see Oda's take on this trope.

  18. #78

    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    I know we didn't see Pudding on the ship, but if she was, couldn't she have altered/erased BM's memory in the midst of rescuing her?

  19. #79

    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by 1000sunny View Post
    I know we didn't see Pudding on the ship, but if she was, couldn't she have altered/erased BM's memory in the midst of rescuing her?
    Even if she's on the ship, Pudding is nowhere near her. And using that quick scuffle as the decisive moment that Pudding finally decides to mess with BM's memories doesn't make any sense. Lastly, given how her ability to edit memories work, she would not have nearly enough time to cut them all out regardless.

  20. #80

    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Giving BM amnesia is odd but seems like it's a necessity? for this arc? I mean opposing 2 Yonko + the majority of their commanders would probably equal a resounding defeat for the SH group. At least this way you can have BM in the arc and maybe they'll somehow manipulate her into fighting against Kaido instead or something. Otherwise this turns into the Marieford arc only you're replacing the Whitebeard Pirates losses with the Straw Hat Pirates

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