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Thread: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

  1. #141
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    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Saturday View Post
    I love when people say Big Mom is the weakest Yonko when we've seen Kaido do next to nothing and Shanks do absolutely nothing.
    And if you use the phrases "Big Mom meme" or "Big Meme" or whatever you owe me $59.99 and a kick to your grundle.
    When you consider her weakness that Capone pointed out which he tried to use as a moment to assassinate her, it does seem like that's a pretty big handicap that it's unlikely any of the other Yonkou share, so in that sense, she's the only one with a Kryptonite-esque weakness out of all of them. Kaido's a lush but even when sloshed he's still able to withstand a barrage of what seemed to be Luffy's strongest attacks, so it doesn't look like that is his weak point, and if not that, then what else could be his fatal flaw? Maybe I'm overthinking it.

    Also Shanks is a former Roger crewmate, used to spar with Mihawk, crossed blades with Whitebeard right before the Marinford battle to try to talk him out of it (or something), managed to divert Kaido from going there too, and blocked a magma fist from Akainu. We've seen him do plenty. And Kaido fell off a Sky Island and stood right back up as well as what I mentioned when Luffy attacked him. Big Mom's biggest accomplishments (that didn't happen off-screen) are not even breaking through Capone's giant stone castle form before they escaped, failing to steal Jimbei's life force and getting owned when she attacked the Sunny by only one of the crew's strongest and the rest of them being of the lower tier. If he wanted to make her look more intimidating, he could have done a better job. Is she formidable? Hell yes. As a Yonkou? Very unlikely to be even in the top two.

  2. #142
    Flagon Snaggin' Dragon Kaido King of the Beasts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Big Mom didn't get owned when she attacked the Sunny. She got pushed off the ship and electrocuted, sure, but she then proceeded to nearly burn everything up. Not much more of a setback than Kaido getting clonked on the head by Luffy, or him throwing a fireball at Oden Castle that didn't do anything.

    And her weak point - the Carmel picture - isn't really something that can be exploited in a fight unless Big Mom actually is insane and places that thing everywhere she goes.


    Spoiler:

  3. #143
    Charismatic Awesome Joy Boy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaido King of the Beasts View Post
    Big Mom didn't get owned when she attacked the Sunny. She got pushed off the ship and electrocuted, sure, but she then proceeded to nearly burn everything up. Not much more of a setback than Kaido getting clonked on the head by Luffy, or him throwing a fireball at Oden Castle that didn't do anything.

    And her weak point - the Carmel picture - isn't really something that can be exploited in a fight unless Big Mom actually is insane and places that thing everywhere she goes.
    Kaido just stood there taking the attacks. He didn’t even try. Are you going to ignore that Big Mom failed to hurt Jinbe ?

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by KageKageKing View Post
    Have you seen what she can do to a giant at age six?
    Giants haven’t been impressive at all in OP. They get destroyed all the time


  4. #144
    Kick-Ass Finalis desa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by BattleFranky69 View Post
    When you consider her weakness that Capone pointed out which he tried to use as a moment to assassinate her, it does seem like that's a pretty big handicap that it's unlikely any of the other Yonkou share, so in that sense, she's the only one with a Kryptonite-esque weakness out of all of them. Kaido's a lush but even when sloshed he's still able to withstand a barrage of what seemed to be Luffy's strongest attacks, so it doesn't look like that is his weak point, and if not that, then what else could be his fatal flaw? Maybe I'm overthinking it.
    The assassination method(deadly poison) would work on any yonko(except maybe kaido). And even in that moment she took care of the attack and paralyzed everyone.

    Whitebeard is hooked up to machine keeping him alive. Shanks has a missing arm and nothing to point at great durability. Blackbeard has that stupid weakness of amplifying damage. . And Big Mom weakness is super specific as opposed to the other 2. I think Kaido is the first presented without a big weakness


    Also Shanks is a former Roger crewmate, used to spar with Mihawk, crossed blades with Whitebeard right before the Marinford battle to try to talk him out of it (or something), managed to divert Kaido from going there too, and blocked a magma fist from Akainu. We've seen him do plenty. And Kaido fell off a Sky Island and stood right back up as well as what I mentioned when Luffy attacked him. Big Mom's biggest accomplishments (that didn't happen off-screen) are not even breaking through Capone's giant stone castle form before they escaped, failing to steal Jimbei's life force and getting owned when she attacked the Sunny by only one of the crew's strongest and the rest of them being of the lower tier. If he wanted to make her look more intimidating, he could have done a better job. Is she formidable? Hell yes. As a Yonkou? Very unlikely to be even in the top two.
    Shanks lost in arm in the weakest Blue, was not the strongest man in the world and has yet to do anything really. Big Mom has been for a good 50 years in the new world and is the only yonko to actually achieve her title without scars.

    Yet I will agree Oda failed at making her impressive. I just disagree that Shanks did anything and that his hype is being the hero's mentor.



  5. #145
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    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    lemme just say, as someone who has been dissapointed by Sanji in all of part 2, and actually LOVES every strawhat to death on thier own merits (except jinbei. But srsly, other than him, each one would be my favorite character if it wasnt for other members) I actually LOVE his raid suit!
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  6. #146

    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Sure it's all somewhat subjective. But personally i've always found Shanksu to be one of the most hyped up characters of all. Just the way he pushes his will through on most everybody, elder stars, other emperors, the marines brass, Mihawk. Dude stopped the war with a simple threat, turned away Kaido at the door, walked in on the reverie and everybody just lets him do it. Like sure it can be said that we've seen very little of what he could do, but the way other important people treat him says alot y'know. And pile on the glut of informed attributes and associations and he just comes across as a more noteworthy and intimidating character than BM.

  7. #147

    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy Boy View Post


    Giants haven’t been impressive at all in OP. They get destroyed all the time
    Same giants that said have the strongest army in the world.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy Boy View Post
    Kaido just stood there taking the attacks. He didn’t even try. Are you going to ignore that Big Mom failed to hurt Jinbe ?
    You saying it this didn't hurt despite the presence of blood?
    https://jaiminisbox.com/reader/read/...n/0/890/page/7

    Hidden:

  8. #148

    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaido King of the Beasts View Post
    Big Mom didn't get owned when she attacked the Sunny. She got pushed off the ship and electrocuted, sure, but she then proceeded to nearly burn everything up. Not much more of a setback than Kaido getting clonked on the head by Luffy, or him throwing a fireball at Oden Castle that didn't do anything.
    The point is she hilariously failed. She chased the Strawhats for 30 something chapters and couldn't capture them and even when she caught up with them they managed to throw her off the ship, the whole thing was really weak.

    Compared to Kaido who casually showed up drunk and destroyed Luffy in 1 hit, he looks more menacing.

    Not to mention the shitshow with Brook lol

  9. #149

    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by KageKageKing View Post
    Same giants that said have the strongest army in the world.
    You do sort of wonder how Oda will manage to retcon that into existance.

    I guess ambition will do some wonders for them.

  10. #150
    Flagon Snaggin' Dragon Kaido King of the Beasts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by mrsword View Post
    The point is she hilariously failed. She chased the Strawhats for 30 something chapters and couldn't capture them and even when she caught up with them they managed to throw her off the ship, the whole thing was really weak.

    Compared to Kaido who casually showed up drunk and destroyed Luffy in 1 hit, he looks more menacing.

    Not to mention the shitshow with Brook lol
    And, again, it ended with her almost burning them to death. Kinda helps not to look at things on a chapter by chapter basis. And I'm sure Brook would own Kaido's ass too ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


    Spoiler:

  11. #151

    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    In a rank of importance i, on completely subjective terms, give to each emperor it'd be something like this.

    1.Blacky Blackbeard Blackington

    Cause he is the final villain. And has been built up for decades to be so.

    2. Shanksu Soon to be deadsu

    Just has some amazing leverage in world affairs.
    And all those informed attributes waiting to be explored.

    3. Drunk.D.Dragon

    Just seems like the biggest physical threat we shall ever see.
    A little shallow in the rest, but takes the slight edge over the fourth.

    4.Great Mother

    She's like the Kimura of their group. Solid all-round.
    But where is the oomph? Lacks a hook, or an angle to rope me in.

    But this is all like which one is greater Ali or Tyson. You ain't saying one is bad.
    Just that you think one has a greater impact.

  12. #152
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    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by desa View Post
    The assassination method(deadly poison) would work on any yonko(except maybe kaido).
    Citation needed. If it was that simple they'd have just poisoned her food or killed her in her sleep LONG before the Straw Hats showed up. They needed her vulnerable for that to work which strongly suggests she needed both her exterior skin to be pierced and her innards to be incapable of resisting poison.

    And even in that moment she took care of the attack and paralyzed everyone.
    Inadvertently and again, it wasn't that she was able to ward off the attack with her durability, she just had that Black Canary scream to keep projectiles from reaching her. They'd have gotten to her if not for the sonic shockwaves. Clearly her offensive capability is still lethal but defensively, she just got lucky.

    Whitebeard is hooked up to machine keeping him alive. Shanks has a missing arm and nothing to point at great durability. Blackbeard has that stupid weakness of amplifying damage. . And Big Mom weakness is super specific as opposed to the other 2. I think Kaido is the first presented without a big weakness
    Whitebeard's age notwithstanding, no one could dispute that the amount of damage he took before croaking was worthy of a Yonkou. Shanks doesn't exactly treat being missing an arm as any kind of weakness and frankly neither does anyone else in the series except Mihawk, although that might be for other reasons he's obfuscating; but Shanks' Haki is clearly top-notch to fend off a magma fist like it was just any old punch when it took half of Whitebeard's face off. Big Mom's is the only weakness that is akin to having a Kryptonite vulnerability that we've seen which is pretty radically different from the others in terms of severity. Although with the picture now destroyed, that weakness may have been eliminated so who knows? Though I am still curious to see what would happen if the truth about Mother Caramel ever did become known to Linlin...

    Shanks lost in arm in the weakest Blue, was not the strongest man in the world and has yet to do anything really. Big Mom has been for a good 50 years in the new world and is the only yonko to actually achieve her title without scars.
    Look how much Luffy evolved in the two years and some change that he's been sailing. Shanks had four or five times as long between East Blue and New World. Do the math, I guess? Plus Shanks had the benefit of already having been to Raftel and sailing with an experienced crew. Luffy's luck got him through things but Shanks had the knowledge and an already assembled crew. Not hard to believe he could rise to that. Hell, look at Luffy's honorary title as the Fifth Yonkou at this point.

    Yet I will agree Oda failed at making her impressive. I just disagree that Shanks did anything and that his hype is being the hero's mentor.
    What makes me interested in Shanks' status is that unlike the others, he's actually been to Raftel and yet hasn't returned there despite presumably having the ability to; he just doesn't seem to care enough to, not unlike Whitebeard who had other interests that didn't involve being top dog, it was just incidental. He doesn't seem to have a fleet like any of the other Yonkou, just like Roger who was Pirate King in spite of this. He's sneaking in to see the Five Elder Stars who aren't even going to attempt to have him killed despite being a threat on the level of Whitebeard who they already had a war with. He's got a seemingly more peaceful and cordial relationship with the other Yonkou compared to, say, the type of relationship that Kaido and Big Mom have with each other. There's no way for all of that to be nothing but bluster on Shanks' part.

  13. #153
    Don't know what to say... Monquito's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Seems to be just a normal mistake from Oda, but it appears that in the panel where BM is sitting, her Heart Tattoo that is usually located on her left arm, is in the right-one instead.
    the other panels where said tattoo is visible, shows it on her left arm.

    Most likely a mistake but if not.... Brulee








  14. #154
    Witch of Miracles otakufan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by BattleFranky69 View Post
    Citation needed. If it was that simple they'd have just poisoned her food or killed her in her sleep LONG before the Straw Hats showed up. They needed her vulnerable for that to work which strongly suggests she needed both her exterior skin to be pierced and her innards to be incapable of resisting poison.
    It's entirely possible the particular type of poison Capone was planning to use isn't dangerous when ingested. There are some extremely-lethal real world poisons that will pass through your digestive tract entirely without effect, but kill you on the spot if they get directly into your bloodstream (not at home, or I'd break out my mystery novel collection for an example).

    And given BM's apparent ability to eat anything she comes across while in a rage, I'd say her innards are pretty formidable in their own right.

    Also, part of the point of the initial assassination attempt was the public spectacle of it - that went out the window once it failed and they were running for their lives from a raging monster of a Yonkou, but it was not intended to be a subtle, discreet murder.
    Last edited by otakufan; February 8th, 2019 at 07:30 AM.

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  15. #155
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    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by BattleFranky69 View Post
    Citation needed. If it was that simple they'd have just poisoned her food or killed her in her sleep LONG before the Straw Hats showed up. They needed her vulnerable for that to work which strongly suggests she needed both her exterior skin to be pierced and her innards to be incapable of resisting poison
    https://www.readmng.com/one-piece1/859/5

    They mention that the problem is her tough skin. We saw less capable pierce Whitebeard and I don't think we have anything to suggest those durable skin for either Shanks or Blackbeard.

    Roger died from disease, Whitebeard was hooked to machines. The great aren't immune to poison. The same way they aren't immune to drowning but we have not seen that.

    Also Ceasar got their recently for the poison and Capone like putting a show and he probably doesn't have access to Big Mom quarters(and would be squashed if she woke up or wasn't fullly asleep).

    Inadvertently and again, it wasn't that she was able to ward off the attack with her durability, she just had that Black Canary scream to keep projectiles from reaching her. They'd have gotten to her if not for the sonic shockwaves. Clearly her offensive capability is still lethal but defensively, she just got lucky.
    She wasn't protected by someone else or the weapons didn't malfunction. That's the defense mechanism that comes with the weakness so I don't see how that's luck. Or it's luck that they could move at all to attack her since normally you just get paralyzed.

    And again aside from Kaido there's no reason to assume they would assume the rockets would bounce the rockets. They don't kill you by inflicting crazy physical damage. It just poison your system. We saw Whitebeard get pierced by weaklings so rocket could definitely break his skin. The rocket doesn't kill you the poison does.

    Whitebeard's age notwithstanding, no one could dispute that the amount of damage he took before croaking was worthy of a Yonkou.
    Well yeah. He was the strongest man. And even he could bleed and would therefore have died from poisoning. Same way Luffy is a badass but could die from a poisonous fish. I don't think Big Mom ever failed defensively. She shrugged every attack(even from her weapons) except one that she destroyed. If anything I would say offensively is where she didn't get to shine.
    Shanks doesn't exactly treat being missing an arm as any kind of weakness and frankly neither does anyone else in the series except Mihawk, although that might be for other reasons he's obfuscating; but Shanks' Haki is clearly top-notch to fend off a magma fist like it was just any old punch when it took half of Whitebeard's face off.
    Jimbei did similarly just before. Also was trying to kill weakling Coby not attack a strong opponent.

    Big Mom's is the only weakness that is akin to having a Kryptonite vulnerability that we've seen which is pretty radically different from the others in terms of severity. Although with the picture now destroyed, that weakness may have been eliminated so who knows? Though I am still curious to see what would happen if the truth about Mother Caramel ever did become known to Linlin...
    She gets weaker but paralyze her enemy. Whitebeard gets heart attack that leaves him completely open.I would say Whitebeard is probably much more dangerous than the once in a year event that has an automatic defensive system. And Whitebeard was hooked to machines.


    Look how much Luffy evolved in the two years and some change that he's been sailing. Shanks had four or five times as long between East Blue and New World. Do the math, I guess? Plus Shanks had the benefit of already having been to Raftel and sailing with an experienced crew. Luffy's luck got him through things but Shanks had the knowledge and an already assembled crew. Not hard to believe he could rise to that. Hell, look at Luffy's honorary title as the Fifth Yonkou at this point.
    I'm sure he is much stronger or else he wouldn't be a yonkou but we have zero in terms of what he can do.

    Whitebeard had the crazily destructive fruit, was the only one to match the unbeatable legend was the strongest man.
    Big Mom has the best defense is the only yonko without a scar and has a crazily versatile fruit strongest woman.
    Kaido is the man you expect to win in any 1 vs 1, decent zoan, has strangely durable skin and is the strongest creature.


    Shanks isn't the best at sword which seems to be his weapon, he isn't the strongest human or man since Whitebeard had that, he has no fruit with crazy, he's missing an arm. How good he is compared to the others is 100% in the air. He could be last, third, or second. He did no actual action for us to put some great level on him. He lost an arm than block the attack aimed at a weakling. That's it.




    What makes me interested in Shanks' status is that unlike the others, he's actually been to Raftel and yet hasn't returned there despite presumably having the ability to; he just doesn't seem to care enough to, not unlike Whitebeard who had other interests that didn't involve being top dog, it was just incidental. He doesn't seem to have a fleet like any of the other Yonkou, just like Roger who was Pirate King in spite of this. He's sneaking in to see the Five Elder Stars who aren't even going to attempt to have him killed despite being a threat on the level of Whitebeard who they already had a war with. He's got a seemingly more peaceful and cordial relationship with the other Yonkou compared to, say, the type of relationship that Kaido and Big Mom have with each other. There's no way for all of that to be nothing but bluster on Shanks' part.
    He does have a lot of hype.



  16. #156
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    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by desa View Post
    https://www.readmng.com/one-piece1/859/5

    They mention that the problem is her tough skin. We saw less capable pierce Whitebeard and I don't think we have anything to suggest those durable skin for either Shanks or Blackbeard.
    Whitebeard never seemed to whip out any Haki, though. Even Big Mom used Haki to block Luffy's last strike against her despite that tough skin stuff. I'll take WB's age into account there but really, for a Yonkou he ought to have been using Haki a ton especially if he didn't think he was getting out of there alive and had no reason to hold back. Unless his infirmity prevented it, which...okay, I'll buy that excuse.

    Roger died from disease, Whitebeard was hooked to machines. The great aren't immune to poison. The same way they aren't immune to drowning but we have not seen that.
    I know, that's kind of my point. Even if ingestion wasn't an option, there's so many other ways to get it into someone without having to break the skin. Take a leaf out of Hamlet and pour it in her ears.

    Also Ceasar got their recently for the poison and Capone like putting a show and he probably doesn't have access to Big Mom quarters(and would be squashed if she woke up or wasn't fullly asleep).
    Well character stupidity isn't something we're unaccustomed to in One Piece, but that's irrelevant to whether it COULD have been done sneakily. Getting Brook out from her arms and replacing him with a dummy worked so it's not like she's got very good security or self-awareness.

    She wasn't protected by someone else or the weapons didn't malfunction. That's the defense mechanism that comes with the weakness so I don't see how that's luck. Or it's luck that they could move at all to attack her since normally you just get paralyzed.
    See, that bugs the hell out of me, that Capone supposedly went to such great lengths to plan all this crap, but didn't know that the side effect of making her scream was a shockwave that would repel any incoming projectiles. Pretty big fault on his part when the plan relied on rocket-propelled syringes.

    And again aside from Kaido there's no reason to assume they would assume the rockets would bounce the rockets. They don't kill you by inflicting crazy physical damage. It just poison your system. We saw Whitebeard get pierced by weaklings so rocket could definitely break his skin. The rocket doesn't kill you the poison does.
    No, I agree, the rockets weren't meant to be what inflicted the fatal blow, they're merely the delivery system. If Capone had been truly capable as a strategist he'd have stationed numerous agents around her in close quarters so that relying on things flying through the air would never have been a factor. Even just as a backup plan, but no.

    Well yeah. He was the strongest man. And even he could bleed and would therefore have died from poisoning. Same way Luffy is a badass but could die from a poisonous fish. I don't think Big Mom ever failed defensively. She shrugged every attack(even from her weapons) except one that she destroyed. If anything I would say offensively is where she didn't get to shine.
    The problem would have been getting the poison into him, and him getting distracted in a similar way to Big Mom wasn't likely to work; if he saw it coming he'd have just Gura-Gura shake the things away. Only letting someone he trusted get close enough to him to strike when it was least expected would have worked and to be fair, that's basically what let Capone get into his position to mount the attack on Big Mom too. WB's skin wasn't as thick as it may have been at his prime but his inner durability was still impressive. But he wasn't using Haki and that was probably the main reason he didn't last longer. Whether we saw the darkening of her skin or not, Big Mom was likely using Haki a great deal of the time to ward off attacks. If getting her into screaming mode meant all of her muscles were at their most relaxed, that might be why she was vulnerable in those moments, but otherwise I'm not sure what causes such a massive de-powering. We just don't see that kind of thing in any of the other Yonkou which makes it bizarrely unique to her.


    She gets weaker but paralyze her enemy. Whitebeard gets heart attack that leaves him completely open.I would say Whitebeard is probably much more dangerous than the once in a year event that has an automatic defensive system. And Whitebeard was hooked to machines.
    That makes it even more curious, why it lowers her defensive power but not her offensive power. Pretty wack kind of trade-off. Especially when it compromises her own allies' ability to help her if they're not prepared for it.

    I'm sure he is much stronger or else he wouldn't be a yonkou but we have zero in terms of what he can do.
    Come on, be fair, it's not zero. It's not much but there are some feats to go with the speculation. Only one suicidal (former) Shichibukai went up against Akainu, nobody else of that level or lower was dumb enough to try to stand up to an Admiral and think they could walk away from it except dumb-ass Luffy. Plus Shanks showing up and declaring the war over effectively was what made it stop, so them not wanting to mess with him and try to get rid of two Yonkou in one battle speaks for itself.

    Whitebeard had the crazily destructive fruit, was the only one to match the unbeatable legend was the strongest man.
    Big Mom has the best defense is the only yonko without a scar and has a crazily versatile fruit strongest woman.
    Kaido is the man you expect to win in any 1 vs 1, decent zoan, has strangely durable skin and is the strongest creature.
    Kaido's current level of strength does seem to make it hard to believe anyone else could be stronger or was stronger in the past. I don't doubt Big Mom would make him sing for his supper if they were to have an all-out brawl but in the end I think he'd be the one left standing with little doubt.


    Shanks isn't the best at sword which seems to be his weapon, he isn't the strongest human or man since Whitebeard had that, he has no fruit with crazy, he's missing an arm. How good he is compared to the others is 100% in the air. He could be last, third, or second. He did no actual action for us to put some great level on him. He lost an arm than block the attack aimed at a weakling. That's it.
    Best in skill, perhaps not, but strongest? Quite possibly. After all, losing a limb tends to make the other stronger so if you extrapolate that to match the ratio of how inhumanly strong they are, that's pretty big. Let's not disregard the decade and some change that he's had to strengthen himself from his humble beginning. But now you mention it, that does seem odd that Oda depicts Luffy as stronger when leaving the village than Shanks was at the time of his own departure.


    He does have a lot of hype.
    None of it undeserved or unwarranted. It might not be all about strength, look at Blackbeard and his strategy of collecting powerful DF abilities that are strong on their own despite the level of power of the user.

  17. #157
    Ou l‘optimisme Candide's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Don’t forget, that Oda never meant for Shanks to lose his arm. It was a last minute change on behalf of his editor.

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