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Thread: Chapter 935: Queen

  1. #61

    Default Re: Chapter 935: Queen

    I thought virtue signaling refered to when your taking of a stance on an issue is hollow and more based on you wanting to be seen in a certain light than actually caring about what it's all about.

  2. #62
    Discovered Stowaway Riddler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 935: Queen

    Quote Originally Posted by Blissed View Post
    I think I've seen this defense almost word for word before, but for Mineta from MHA lol
    I don't know MHA. I guess the defense wasn't viewed as justified in Mineta's case?

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh
    Just like the gag itself.

    At this point the character is just a weak, obnoxiously sleazy shadow of his former self. Toning it down while cranking the volume on some of more serious aspects of his personality would go a LONG way.
    I agree that Oda way overuses the joke and it has gotten rather stale. And of course it doesn't help that, in contrast to Zoro's "bad sense of direction" running gag, this one paints the character in a rather unlikable light. But being annoyed by a tired old gag and being outraged over a character being a pervert are two different things and I was only talking about the latter case.

    While I do agree that toning this particular joke down while focusing more on Sanji's serious side would help his character a lot, we just had a whole dramatic arc for him where he was pretty much serious all throughout and barely showed his perverted side at all, so I think this statement about his character is a little bit over-blown.

  3. #63
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    Default Re: Chapter 935: Queen

    I think what Daz is saying is that the concept of "virtue signaling" only exists - or at least became a common place - on the mouth of people who use it to criticize progressive stances, putting a negative label to dismiss them.

    The he (?) proceeded to say that labeling other people opinions as "virtue signaling" became a sort of virtue signaling in itself because, in doing so, the person tries to make it sound as if they are actually worried about the cause the other person supposedly is using to gain internet points while they are actually just being dismissive of the whole subject... or something like that.

  4. #64
    Flagon Snaggin' Dragon Kaido King of the Beasts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 935: Queen

    So I was doing a bit of math. Law said on Punk Hazard that Kaido had around 500 SMILE users. We know from Zou Sanji is worth 1000 men and Zoro 2000, and Kin'emon stated that Ashura Doji, Kawamatsu, and Denjiro are each worth 100 men in battle. Since Luffy is Zoro and Sanji's captain, let's project him to be worth 3000 men, and Jinbe will also be worth 1000. Shinobu estimated they'd recruit 500 samurai without Hyogoro, but since he's teamed up with Luffy and will obviously come into play let's assume they quintuple their recruits to 2500, since Hyogoro ruled over 5 village bosses. The Straw Hat Grand Fleet has 5640 members. Let's estimate the military forces of the Mink Tribe to be around 50 members, and since they're obviously gonna fight on a night of a full moon and thus activate Sulong, let's estimate their military strength as 2500 people. Then, of course, there's the amnesiac Big Mom. Let's say a typical giant is worth 500 men in battle. Big Mom killed a giant at the age of 5. She's around 13 times as old as she was then, making her roughly worth 6500 men in battle.

    Aside from the SMILE users, you have the Pleasures, who basically don't count as fighters, Drake and Hawkins crews, Headliners with real fruits like Page One, the three Calamities, and Kaido. Kaido's gonna need a lot to bring him down, but his intro only stated "If it's 1-on-1, Kaido will win", thus not eliminating the possibility that Kaido could lose in a 2 v 1 fight. So let's lowball him as being worth 2 people in battle. On the Wano natives' side, let's say there are only 500 samurai left on Orochi's side, there can't be that many people who live on Wano can there?

    Thus, the final battle on Onigashima will pit the rough equivalent of 25,000 alliance members vs. 1100 Beasts Pirates. Gonna be an absolute snoozefest. NPMS Alliance too OP, Oda, pls nerf.
    Last edited by Kaido King of the Beasts; March 12th, 2019 at 07:26 PM.



    Spoiler:

  5. #65

    Default Re: Chapter 935: Queen

    That is why BM needs to wake up and ally with kaidou(along with her crew), only way the final battle will be fair.

  6. #66
    Cursed Crazed Commenter MrBits's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 935: Queen

    Don't forget that the Whitebeard Pirates are almost certainly going to show up and join the alliance too. But where they go, Weevil will probably follow, and I have no idea how he'll fit into this.

    I get the feeling the Blackbeard Pirates (+Moria) will show up at some point too. I'm not sure who they'd initially go after, but at the very end I think they'll go after Kaidou. But hopefully they'll mess with the Strawhat alliance before that.

    There's also a non-zero chance of the Marines/CP0 showing up.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBits
    Place your bets. Is [AlphaMale/AlphaBro, an obvious ban evader] going to get banned again today, tomorrow, or in a week?
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    An actual bet and conversation on the Chapter 905 thread, literally an hour before he got banned again.

  7. #67

    Default Re: Chapter 935: Queen

    Quote Originally Posted by Riddler View Post
    I don't know MHA. I guess the defense wasn't viewed as justified in Mineta's case?
    Indeed, it was not.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBits View Post
    Don't forget that the Whitebeard Pirates are almost certainly going to show up and join the alliance too.
    How can anyone confidently say this when Marco literally said he wasn't coming? They didn't look for the other Whitebeard Pirates either, just Marco.

  8. #68
    21st Century Schizoid Man Johnny B. Decent's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 935: Queen

    Can I just chime in on the discussion about Kaido's crew that I hate how their ranks are named after show biz terms?

  9. #69

    Default Re: Chapter 935: Queen

    Quote Originally Posted by Daz View Post
    That may be, but how would you define it then? I have never seen any context where the term didn't have an explicitly negative connotation, or call-out function. To me it always seems to be

    Person A: "I think X issue is problematic"
    Person B: "X is fine! You're just virtue signaling!"

    Like, I heard this exact exchange in a danish podcast just earlier today. But do people go "If I may signal my virtues for a moment..." now, or what?
    The concept of virtue signaling is not so much just about dismissing the opinion of progressive people but rather used as a way to describe how certain people use modern progressive views as some sort of checklist that every fictional work needs to have.

    The best examples of this would be looking at the reception for Ghostbuster's 2016 and Black Panther. Both movies, in certain ways, reflect progressive views and if you were to criticize those movies with actual legit points and arguments, you still would be called like "straight white male" or "sexist" or "racist". Like you gotta be a women-hating-sexist pig if you don't enjoy the fifth-grader humor of Ghostbusters or a black-hating-racist if you don't enjoy Black Panter and found it to be your typical Marvel movie that is trying very hard to be seen as something serious.

    That's where people, myself included, would use the word "virtue signaling" mainly because the movies aren't being praised for their own merits or their direction or anything that makes them unique or simply good movies. These movies are talked about or praised because they reflect modern western views but in the most basic form. It's like "women power = good, men = bad, black = good, white = bad" in terms of how lots of journalist and critics view modern movies. If you were to change the genders of the main lead cast of Ghostbusters or change the cast of Black Panther to have white people and have everything be same then would you say their reception would be the same? I sure don't think so the praise and reception are purely masked by "women" and "black people".

    Or another would be that say, you and I both agree that Oda's views of women aren't in any way the best or the most "healthy". But they very much represent who he is, just like how every other aspect of the series. Now would I like to see Oda change or have a moment where he understands his own views and incorporates that into the story? Like him having a moment of growth? Absolutely. But a virtue signaler would want to change that aspect to reflect the more acceptive view even if doesn't reflect Oda, not because they would want that to be explored or anything. But simply because it is modern and it is accepted. It would go from "Oda is One Piece" to "One Piece is whatever popular consensuses are".

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by .access timeco. View Post
    I think what Daz is saying is that the concept of "virtue signaling" only exists - or at least became a common place - on the mouth of people who use it to criticize progressive stances, putting a negative label to dismiss them.

    The he (?) proceeded to say that labeling other people opinions as "virtue signaling" became a sort of virtue signaling in itself because, in doing so, the person tries to make it sound as if they are actually worried about the cause the other person supposedly is using to gain internet points while they are actually just being dismissive of the whole subject... or something like that.
    I am one of those who very commonly use the word "SJW" or "virtue signaling" but I'm also progressive. I have seen a crap ton of people who are also like me and hate the concept of virtue signaling. As it represents more of pandering to the modern audience and being afraid of actually presenting what you want. An author nowadays doesn't matter as much as simply throwing checklist stuff to hit the quotas.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    I thought virtue signaling referred to when your taking of a stance on an issue is hollow and more based on you wanting to be seen in a certain light than actually caring about what it's all about.
    Yep.

    Basically pretending to be enraged about something that you don't really care about but you want other people to think you do.

    Like how certain "feminists" online want talk about the portrayal of women but then would flip their shit if they saw a woman being her own self and disregard them. I remember seeing a video where some women were rallying for "women rights" to be their own person, be equal and have a choice. Then they saw another women talk about the fact that she would love to be a housewife and others flipped their shit. And from what I understand, lots of feminist hate the idea of housewife and anyone who does that regardless of whether they actually wanted that or not.

  10. #70
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    Default Re: Chapter 935: Queen

    Quote Originally Posted by S.C. Amigo View Post
    Can I just chime in on the discussion about Kaido's crew that I hate how their ranks are named after show biz terms?
    Sure, but why do you feel that way?

    I don't really have any feeling towards it one way or another, the theme of animal circus is kind of interesting in my opinion. I prefer Stephen's choice of Lead Performer over All-star because All-star reminds me of sports, whereas Lead Perfomer fits the theme better imo.
    The only gripe I have with it is the Headliners are for the most part jobbers outside of the Tobi Roppo, (which just sounds like a cool word because it wasn't translated lol) which kind of diminishes the fact of headline as a term = big deal, but I guess it is warranted given the strength of Luffy and the crew.

    Big Mom's ministers were more interesting because what they were the ministers of was a clue to their character, but it was also a plus because we were in their territory, the novelty of Tottoland enhanced everything.

    I guess the Animal Kingdom Pirates have to put on a real circus show for us for the names to have good meaning.

  11. #71

    Default Re: Chapter 935: Queen

    Quote Originally Posted by TommyDunns View Post
    The only gripe I have with it is the Headliners are for the most part jobbers outside of the Tobi Roppo, (which just sounds like a cool word because it wasn't translated lol) which kind of diminishes the fact of headline as a term = big deal, but I guess it is warranted given the strength of Luffy and the crew.
    Headliner is just a rank that encompasses all sorts of people within the Beast Pirates, just like it was for Ministers in WCI. Just like how you can go from Chiffon and Flampe to characters like Perospero and Katakuri within the Minister rank, Headliners serve the same purpose in covering characters like Holdem and Hawkins.

    Only conclusion I feel one can really make this early into the arc is to continue to have low expectations for the SMILE users. Anyone that isn't a SMILE user would be worth paying attention relatively speaking, so hopefully we get some actual Zoan users outside of the Tobi Roppo.

  12. #72
    21st Century Schizoid Man Johnny B. Decent's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 935: Queen

    Quote Originally Posted by TommyDunns View Post
    Sure, but why do you feel that way?

    I don't really have any feeling towards it one way or another, the theme of animal circus is kind of interesting in my opinion. I prefer Stephen's choice of Lead Performer over All-star because All-star reminds me of sports, whereas Lead Perfomer fits the theme better imo.
    The only gripe I have with it is the Headliners are for the most part jobbers outside of the Tobi Roppo, (which just sounds like a cool word because it wasn't translated lol) which kind of diminishes the fact of headline as a term = big deal, but I guess it is warranted given the strength of Luffy and the crew.

    Big Mom's ministers were more interesting because what they were the ministers of was a clue to their character, but it was also a plus because we were in their territory, the novelty of Tottoland enhanced everything.

    I guess the Animal Kingdom Pirates have to put on a real circus show for us for the names to have good meaning.
    It goes from Pleasures and Gifters to Headliners and All-Stars...to Governor-General. It seems all over the place.

  13. #73
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    Default Re: Chapter 935: Queen

    Quote Originally Posted by Blissed View Post
    Headliner is just a rank that encompasses all sorts of people within the Beast Pirates, just like it was for Ministers in WCI. Just like how you can go from Chiffon and Flampe to characters like Perospero and Katakuri within the Minister rank, Headliners serve the same purpose in covering characters like Holdem and Hawkins.

    The only conclusion I feel one can really make this early into the arc is to continue to have low expectations for the SMILE users. Anyone that isn't a SMILE user would be worth paying attention relatively speaking, so hopefully, we get some actual Zoan users outside of the Tobi Roppo.
    There are still the Gifters and Pleasures, but they are so low down on the totem pole that they aren't worth mentioning. The thing is some of these Headliners get Oda Boxes which is like hey look at me, I'm relevant but in reality, you're expendable. I guess I've been conditioned by Oda boxes to believe, he wants us to know about them, their powers, their name etc. But because they are so numerous it falls flat, I don't even remember the hippo zoan guy's name for example.

    I agree with you about Smile users.

    Another thought that comes to mind is what fearsome animals are left to be represented? Oda tried to pull a fast one on us thinking that the Lion Zoan would be revealed with Holdem (which tbh was a good gag lol.) The ancient theme is strong amongst the Lead Performers so as much as people say Scorpion (which is still cool) I think it will be an ancient version to match Jack and King.

    A Lion is such a cool animal that I don't know if Oda would just shoo it in with the Tobi Roppo. Tiger, Bear, Cheetah, Rhinoceros, Gorilla you name it. Alot of Zoans were already displayed in the manga but he must be saving some of these. This isn't the Zoan devil fruits last hurrah necessarily, but there are so many that I don't know how he can make them all count.

    The thing is I doubt he would give a stereotypically cool animal zoan to someone outside of Lead Performers or Tobi Roppo, people would perceive it as a waste. He needs to give them a mid tier animal Zoan like a Moose or something lol.


    Quote Originally Posted by S.C. Amigo View Post
    It goes from Pleasures and Gifters to Headliners and All-Stars...to Governor-General. It seems all over the place.

    I already spoke about the choice of Lead Performers over All-Stars in my previous post.

    As far as Governor-General is concerned, in Viz he's called the Supreme Commander instead. Here's Stephen talking about why he chose to translate the term "Sotoku" like that instead of what it was literally used for in its historical context.
    https://soundcloud.com/onepiecepodca...married#t=7:45 from 7:45 to 11:55.
    Governor-General sounds dumb for a name of a Pirate Captain honestly. In Canada, the Governor General represents the Queen lol, so it definitely does not work for someone of Kaido's status.

    TLDL; "Sotuku" was used historically as Governor General and/or Viceroy, basically the representative of Japan over a colony. Also Oda used this same term for Judge, but he used Generalissimo for that translation ( He explains it much better than me, just listen).


    The progression from Pleasures and Gifters (clowns of the circus, he's got this one down) to Headliners, to Lead Performers, to Supreme Commander is a bit better.
    Scans also translate his crew to Beast Pirates, which is kind of bland i
    mo, and Animal Kingdom Pirates has a more encompassing feel to it.
    Last edited by TommyDunns; March 12th, 2019 at 11:43 PM.

  14. #74

    Default Re: Chapter 935: Queen

    Quote Originally Posted by TommyDunns View Post
    There are still the Gifters and Pleasures, but they are so low down on the totem pole that they aren't worth mentioning. The thing is some of these Headliners get Oda Boxes which is like "hey look at me, I'm relevant" but in reality you're expendable. I guess I've been conditioned by Oda boxes to believe, he wants us to know about them, their powers, their name etc. But because they are so numerous it falls flat, I don't even remember the hippo zoan guy's name for example.
    Hippo dude's name is Dobon.

    But eh, I never saw the bolded as that. The purpose is literally just to name them. He's done for it for even weaker, more irrelevant characters like Mouseman or Batman lol. At the end of the day, regardless of their usefulness, we need to know the names/aliases of the people in Kaido's crew. I mean yea sure, sometimes a character getting a box introduction can make them stand out, but in this context, it's not a big deal. Hell, we literally had Daifugo (scorpion dude) only introduced after Luffy kicked him in the face. Same thing happened back in WCI, a lot of the characters got boxes despite not having done anything. But it was still appreciated since people wanted to know who they were, how they fit into the family, etc.

    Another thought that comes to mind is what fearsome animals are left to be represented?
    I guess I'm a little surprised a Tiger Zoan hasn't happened yet, but I don't have anything I particularly desire myself, namely since Oda has the potential to make anything work. Yes, stuff like a lion, another dinosaur, etc. will be naturally more exciting for a lot of people, but ultimately it comes down to the character's fighting style. Rob Lucci looked cool, but his threat came from his mastery of the Rokushiki fighting style. Kaku was a damn giraffe man, and yet he was one of Zoro's toughest fights, and was really cool to watch.

    So even if the animal the Zoan DF is based on is "lame", it won't matter that much.

    Oda tried to pull a fast one on us thinking that the Lion Zoan would be revealed with Holdem (which tbh was a good gag lol.) The ancient theme is strong amongst the Lead Performers so as much as people say Scorpion ( which is still cool) I think it will be an ancient version to match Jack and King.
    There are ancient versions of scorpions, so that wouldn't be an issue.

    The thing is I doubt he would give a stereotypically cool animal zoan to someone outside of Lead Performers or Tobi Roppo, people would perceive it as a waste. He needs to give them a mid tier animal Zoan like a Moose or something lol.
    Given that he has Ancient Zoans (and maybe Mythical?) to work with for the Tobi Roppo and Calamities, I highly doubt he'd care. I rather see them over regular Zoan DFs anyhow.

  15. #75

    Default Re: Chapter 935: Queen

    Please correct me if i am wrong but did Oda swapped Kanjuro's original design (silhoutte in chapter 725) with Kamazou the manslayer (guy with ponytail) and Kanjuro's second redesign silhoutte (volume 73) with Kawamatsu?
    Makes me wonder why..


    Chapter 725 - https://m.imgur.com/FQ677QT

    Volume 73 - https://m.imgur.com/2DkTU7h

    I am just guessing how kawamatsu look, between kanjuro's 2nd silhoutte v73 and Komamura (Bleach). Or kawamatsu might wearing hat like Oars Jr. and that person talking to Crocus in one of chapter coverpage srory.
    Last edited by Hisoga; March 13th, 2019 at 08:07 AM.

  16. #76

    Default Re: Chapter 935: Queen

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaido King of the Beasts View Post
    probably sarcastic math
    Eh, I think they meant that they were worth 1000 normal men. Normal is very very weak. So they are worth 1000 really week men. The kind that can be overpowered by the typical marine/

    On the other hand beast pirates have Zoan fruits which are canonically the physically stronget and durable group of people. So one weak beast pirate is probably worth 500 normal men.

    Also your math checks out with Kaidou being worth 2 people.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by S.C. Amigo View Post
    Can I just chime in on the discussion about Kaido's crew that I hate how their ranks are named after show biz terms?
    Yeah it seems incongruent with the overall theme of the crew.

    Speaking of which. Now that the strawhats are officially a Yonkou crew what do you guys think their divisions would be named after ? Would the name Monster Trio be the strawhat equivalent of Calamities/Sweet Commanders/Division Commanders/ Admirals.
    HOW COME LUFFY NEVER KILLS AN ENEMY?
    ODA:ITS BECAUSE IN THAT ERA EVERYONE USES THEIR LIVES TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS. FOR AN ENEMY WHEN THEIR DREAM HAS BEEN SHATTERED,IT IS AS PAINFUL AS DEATH,I BELIEVE FOR A PIRATE NOT TO KILL AN ENEMY , IT'S GIVING THEM A SECOND CHANCE TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS.

  17. #77
    Your long-lost brother Jabra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 935: Queen

    [...] I hate how their ranks are named after show biz terms
    Quote Originally Posted by kevo_koma View Post
    Yeah it seems incongruent with the overall theme of the crew.
    .
    It's super congruent in Oda's mind.

    Spoiler:






    Think of the Beast Pirates as a pompous zoo. Where you have the monkeys and birds as the Headliners, the elephants & polar bears as the All Stars - and then maybe a white lion, the King of Beasts, as the ultra rare main attraction of the show / exhibit.
    Last edited by Jabra; March 13th, 2019 at 08:53 AM.


  18. #78

    Default Re: Chapter 935: Queen

    Is the consensus that Kawamatsu is at the very least without arms? We got the punishments reiterated in this chapter plus it was explicitly stated that he spit out the fishbone earlier in the arc. Not sure what he'll be able to accomplish but color me intrigued.

  19. #79

    Default Re: Chapter 935: Queen

    Big guy. Mustache. Dancer. Holy crap!


    Heavy D dancing at the 2:43 mark sealed the deal.

    NNID: jervinnectar

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    Default Re: Chapter 935: Queen

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaido King of the Beasts View Post
    So I was doing a bit of math. Law said on Punk Hazard that Kaido had around 500 SMILE users. We know from Zou Sanji is worth 1000 men and Zoro 2000, and Kin'emon stated that Ashura Doji, Kawamatsu, and Denjiro are each worth 100 men in battle. Since Luffy is Zoro and Sanji's captain, let's project him to be worth 3000 men, and Jinbe will also be worth 1000. Shinobu estimated they'd recruit 500 samurai without Hyogoro, but since he's teamed up with Luffy and will obviously come into play let's assume they quintuple their recruits to 2500, since Hyogoro ruled over 5 village bosses. The Straw Hat Grand Fleet has 5640 members. Let's estimate the military forces of the Mink Tribe to be around 50 members, and since they're obviously gonna fight on a night of a full moon and thus activate Sulong, let's estimate their military strength as 2500 people. Then, of course, there's the amnesiac Big Mom. Let's say a typical giant is worth 500 men in battle. Big Mom killed a giant at the age of 5. She's around 13 times as old as she was then, making her roughly worth 6500 men in battle.

    Aside from the SMILE users, you have the Pleasures, who basically don't count as fighters, Drake and Hawkins crews, Headliners with real fruits like Page One, the three Calamities, and Kaido. Kaido's gonna need a lot to bring him down, but his intro only stated "If it's 1-on-1, Kaido will win", thus not eliminating the possibility that Kaido could lose in a 2 v 1 fight. So let's lowball him as being worth 2 people in battle. On the Wano natives' side, let's say there are only 500 samurai left on Orochi's side, there can't be that many people who live on Wano can there?

    Thus, the final battle on Onigashima will pit the rough equivalent of 25,000 alliance members vs. 1100 Beasts Pirates. Gonna be an absolute snoozefest. NPMS Alliance too OP, Oda, pls nerf.
    That really makes me wish Douriki had been more of a significant thing than a one-off, almost useless measure that ultimately wasn't worth bringing up. It grossly downplayed the gap between Sanji and Zoro's strengths by making their opponents only 20 points apart but if done correctly it could be worth a hell of a lot more. If only certain people in the One Piece world had the ability to calculate it, say, then it could have been more useful without being overused and kept around longer but all we have is speculation and these weird abstract numbers.

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